RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

That's different cultures for ya

What happened? Is my personal favorite greeting from an old familiar face.

It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

That's different cultures for ya

I didn't know that being a disgusting, rude, intrusive piece of human garbage was "culture." On Korea's behalf, I object.

Bullshit to anyone who says "oh it's just cultural" for the never-ending nasty comments women get about how they look. NO. Do they walk up to the male teachers and make negative comments on their appearance? They do not. Seems to be all they ever say to men is  oooooh you are sooooo handsooooommmme merely because you are A) foreign, and B) alive. No.

Stop using "culture" to excuse workplace harassment. This is not cultural.

yep. an old co-worker had 2 babies, and returned to work (same school). some old guy she'd never talked to before said (on her first day back), "you've got fat. you should diet". who are these people..

Yip! It seems the norm to comment on appearance. My ex principal would often comment on my ex co-teacher, she was young (always seems to happen to the younger ones it seems to me) and he would say stuff like, "Did you buy your top or did your mom knit it? " and then my co-T never wore it again. Over the winter he would say stuff like, "You've put on weight recently, you've been eating a lot this winter." And then she became obsessed with losing weight. I got severely sick one time and lost a bunch of weight to the point of looking anorexic, my eyes and cheeks were sunken, and my co-T would mention she wishes she could get sick too so she can lose weight like me, an I started receiving compliments from people that I looked good. When I returned home though, it was the opposite and people were freaked out over how I looked and genuinely became worried about my health.  This isn't just Korea though. A colleague of mine in Japan was told to button up her top button and told that she's too flat chested to be showing off her chest (by another younger colleague). When all she was showing off was just a couple of inches below her collar bone. It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

back when i worked at public school, the new principal would often make the new, young, female teachers cry. other teachers said he just did it because he's a dick. he'd never say anything about the male teachers though (i was told). he was a complete and utter prick, yet because he was the principal, he could do literally anything he wanted...without anyone having any power to do anything about it. ugh

It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

That's different cultures for ya

I didn't know that being a disgusting, rude, intrusive piece of human garbage was "culture." On Korea's behalf, I object.

Bullshit to anyone who says "oh it's just cultural" for the never-ending nasty comments women get about how they look. NO. Do they walk up to the male teachers and make negative comments on their appearance? They do not. Seems to be all they ever say to men is  oooooh you are sooooo handsooooommmme merely because you are A) foreign, and B) alive. No.

Stop using "culture" to excuse workplace harassment. This is not cultural.

...... it's culture.

It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

That's different cultures for ya

I didn't know that being a disgusting, rude, intrusive piece of human garbage was "culture." On Korea's behalf, I object.

Bullshit to anyone who says "oh it's just cultural" for the never-ending nasty comments women get about how they look. NO. Do they walk up to the male teachers and make negative comments on their appearance? They do not. Seems to be all they ever say to men is  oooooh you are sooooo handsooooommmme merely because you are A) foreign, and B) alive. No.

Stop using "culture" to excuse workplace harassment. This is not cultural.

1) Rude is a cultural construct. Both the English and the French see each other as “rude”; the English never say what they mean, and the French are too direct.

2) As a man, I get called “Fat”... frequently. My usual response is, (with a smile) do you want to wrestle  me? Haven’t had any takers yet.

It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

That's different cultures for ya

I didn't know that being a disgusting, rude, intrusive piece of human garbage was "culture." On Korea's behalf, I object.

Bullshit to anyone who says "oh it's just cultural" for the never-ending nasty comments women get about how they look. NO. Do they walk up to the male teachers and make negative comments on their appearance? They do not. Seems to be all they ever say to men is  oooooh you are sooooo handsooooommmme merely because you are A) foreign, and B) alive. No.

Stop using "culture" to excuse workplace harassment. This is not cultural.

1) Rude is a cultural construct. Both the English and the French see each other as “rude”; the English never say what they mean, and the French are too direct.

2) As a man, I get called “Fat”... frequently. My usual response is, (with a smile) do you want to wrestle  me? Haven’t had any takers yet.

In line with JNM and Aristocrat, being direct about one's appearance is a part of the culture.

I don't condone workplace harassment, and frankly I'd hardly consider it to be the case here. In their minds, it's absolutely ok to call out your appearance because that's the society we're in. They play by different rules.

Now, if a co-worker came up to you and said "Nice ass." then it'd be a different story. If you can't take the heat, I'm sad to say you'd probably be better off somewhere else.

korean people know it's not acceptable to say things like that to each other. they know it's rude to do so. the only "cultural" thing here is that people know they can't really say anything back if the dickhead is older or higher "status". so, i guess it's culture in so far as, "if you're older, you can be a prick without anybody calling you out on it"

korean people know it's not acceptable to say things like that to each other. they know it's rude to do so. the only "cultural" thing here is that people know they can't really say anything back if the dickhead is older or higher "status". so, i guess it's culture in so far as, "if you're older, you can be a prick without anybody calling you out on it"

Pretty much

I stand by my statement that it's 100% culture. What I also stand by is that it's grossly underestimated how dynamic and complex culture is.
It's pretty easy to observe that there's a massive cultural gap between Korean people, particularly the old and the young.

korean people know it's not acceptable to say things like that to each other. they know it's rude to do so. the only "cultural" thing here is that people know they can't really say anything back if the dickhead is older or higher "status". so, i guess it's culture in so far as, "if you're older, you can be a prick without anybody calling you out on it"

if we're being real about it, oglop is right.

if it truly is an innocent cultural norm and there's no hidden layer of passive aggressiveness or some kind of power play going on , then why does it only work one way...with only the senior commenting on the junior? how many times have you heard a teacher tell the vice principal or principal "you look tired today"?

then why does it only work one way...with only the senior commenting on the junior? how many times have you heard a teacher tell the vice principal or principal "you look tired today"?

Except it doesn't. For starters, this...

It's pretty easy to observe that there's a massive cultural gap between Korean people, particularly the old and the young.

Second, we don't know always know the personal dynamics between various Koreans. In some cases it certainly can be rude and insulting. In other cases the people are friendly and the directness and honesty is part of their friendship. Some friends like that directness and want to look their best.

Think of our various relationships. We have friends and coworkers who can say certain things to us that casual acquaintances could not. The important thing is not to jump to conclusions before knowing the facts. It certainly can be rude or harassing. It can also be no big deal and actually advice that the person appreciates.

well, yes, it's different if you're friends. of course.

but saying, "you've got fat. you should lose weight" to somebody you've never spoken to, isn't acceptable

a principal commenting negatively on a young female co-worker's clothes, and embarrassing them in front of the office, isn't acceptable

Yeah, the "It's culture" thing only goes so far.

Scenario 1:
VP: Kevin teacher, you've gained some weight over the last 4 months. Is everything okay? I hope you can lose some of it.

The Canadian in me sees this as bizarre but there's genuine concern here and there's no malice. I deem this okay.

Scenario 2
*walk into VP office*

  Kevin, you don't look so well today. You've gained some weight, too.

   INTERNALLY ugghhhhhh, really? In front of the teachers I've known for a while?

  Yeah, I feel okay, thanks.

This is not horrible. I don't like it, but I think the "It's culture" argument isn't bad here.

Scenario 3
 *Staff Meeting - ENTER Kevin Teacher*

  Wow, Kevin, you have gained a lot of weight and your clothes are not good. You need to change everything. I am helping.

  ------> 

Sorry, no. You are a fukking douche. I give cultural stuff a fair bit of leeway but this is just an asshole.

well, yes, it's different if you're friends. of course.

but saying, "you've got fat. you should lose weight" to somebody you've never spoken to, isn't acceptable

a principal commenting negatively on a young female co-worker's clothes, and embarrassing them in front of the office, isn't acceptable

By what standard?

As a kid, I was incredibly thin and many relatives, in particular, commented on and poked fun at my appearance. I developed a bit of a complex (all buff and ripped now). At that young age, I couldn't really relate with how fat people took such massive offense when they were  ridiculed and people couldn't understand why I got upset when I was made fun of for being thin.

Expand this to a national level and you'll understand what I'm saying.

During the 1950s, Americans were drinking, eating and smoking in an orgy of decadence. It was during this time that it was pretty common for women to be criticized for being too fat. Eating disorders ensued and since then, awareness has been raised on the seriousness of eating disorders, self-esteem etc.
In the 1950's Koreans were scouring the hills for anything edible and  truly celebrating an infant living past 100 days. Meat, honey and sugar were unfathomable luxuries, which is why I still get plenty of quizzical looks when I refuse food, particularly meat offerings.

Essentially, Korea is in 1960s America. It's starting to click that going out of your way to embarrass a person about their weight or appearance isn't acceptable. Old people like that principal are stuck in their ways, eating disorders just aren't part of his history.
He's a proper asshole, yes, but he's also a product of his own culture, not ours.       

well, yes, it's different if you're friends. of course.

but saying, "you've got fat. you should lose weight" to somebody you've never spoken to, isn't acceptable

a principal commenting negatively on a young female co-worker's clothes, and embarrassing them in front of the office, isn't acceptable

By what standard?

As a kid, I was incredibly thin and many relatives, in particular, commented on and poked fun at my appearance. I developed a bit of a complex (all buff and ripped now). At that young age, I couldn't really relate with how fat people took such massive offense when they were  ridiculed and people couldn't understand why I got upset when I was made fun of for being thin.

Expand this to a national level and you'll understand what I'm saying.

During the 1950s, Americans were drinking, eating and smoking in an orgy of decadence. It was during this time that it was pretty common for women to be criticized for being too fat. Eating disorders ensued and since then, awareness has been raised on the seriousness of eating disorders, self-esteem etc.
In the 1950's Koreans were scouring the hills for anything edible and  truly celebrating an infant living past 100 days. Meat, honey and sugar were unfathomable luxuries, which is why I still get plenty of quizzical looks when I refuse food, particularly meat offerings.

Essentially, Korea is in 1960s America. It's starting to click that going out of your way to embarrass a person about their weight or appearance isn't acceptable. Old people like that principal are stuck in their ways, eating disorders just aren't part of his history.
He's a proper asshole, yes, but he's also a product of his own culture, not ours.       

I do agree with you here; fair view of it. 

But, and I hate to bring it up, didn't you go out of your way recently to embarrass your coteacher after she asked quite an innocent question?

well, yes, it's different if you're friends. of course.

but saying, "you've got fat. you should lose weight" to somebody you've never spoken to, isn't acceptable

a principal commenting negatively on a young female co-worker's clothes, and embarrassing them in front of the office, isn't acceptable

By what standard?

As a kid, I was incredibly thin and many relatives, in particular, commented on and poked fun at my appearance. I developed a bit of a complex (all buff and ripped now). At that young age, I couldn't really relate with how fat people took such massive offense when they were  ridiculed and people couldn't understand why I got upset when I was made fun of for being thin.

Expand this to a national level and you'll understand what I'm saying.

During the 1950s, Americans were drinking, eating and smoking in an orgy of decadence. It was during this time that it was pretty common for women to be criticized for being too fat. Eating disorders ensued and since then, awareness has been raised on the seriousness of eating disorders, self-esteem etc.
In the 1950's Koreans were scouring the hills for anything edible and  truly celebrating an infant living past 100 days. Meat, honey and sugar were unfathomable luxuries, which is why I still get plenty of quizzical looks when I refuse food, particularly meat offerings.

Essentially, Korea is in 1960s America. It's starting to click that going out of your way to embarrass a person about their weight or appearance isn't acceptable. Old people like that principal are stuck in their ways, eating disorders just aren't part of his history.
He's a proper asshole, yes, but he's also a product of his own culture, not ours.       

I do agree with you here; fair view of it. 

But, and I hate to bring it up, didn't you go out of your way recently to embarrass your coteacher after she asked quite an innocent question?

Which question was that?

well, yes, it's different if you're friends. of course.

but saying, "you've got fat. you should lose weight" to somebody you've never spoken to, isn't acceptable

a principal commenting negatively on a young female co-worker's clothes, and embarrassing them in front of the office, isn't acceptable

By what standard?...

I do agree with you here; fair view of it. 

But, and I hate to bring it up, didn't you go out of your way recently to embarrass your coteacher after she asked quite an innocent question?

Which question was that?

Here it is.  Fair enough if she was being condescending but you put the boot in quite hard to embarrass (humiliate?) her...

This happened ages ago.
An Ex-CT asked me if South Africans can speak English... This was the 3rd time I'd been asked this question and she was being rather condescending.

I replied by asking her what she majored in at University, she replied English.
I asked her at what age she began studying English. "Around the 4th grade." she replied.
I asked her if she attended English hagwons, she did, for a number of years.

I then asked her what type of English education she received if, after 8yrs of English education at schools and hagwons, as well as 4yrs studying for a university degree to teach English, she wasn't aware that South Africa is home to a few million native English speakers.

Here it is.  Fair enough if she was being condescending but you put the boot in quite hard to embarrass (humiliate?) her...

This happened ages ago.
An Ex-CT asked me if South Africans can speak English... This was the 3rd time I'd been asked this question and she was being rather condescending.

I replied by asking her what she majored in at University, she replied English.
I asked her at what age she began studying English. "Around the 4th grade." she replied.
I asked her if she attended English hagwons, she did, for a number of years.

I then asked her what type of English education she received if, after 8yrs of English education at schools and hagwons, as well as 4yrs studying for a university degree to teach English, she wasn't aware that South Africa is home to a few million native English speakers.

holy shit aristocrat you a savvvvage my dude

Here it is.  Fair enough if she was being condescending but you put the boot in quite hard to embarrass (humiliate?) her...

This happened ages ago.
An Ex-CT asked me if South Africans can speak English... This was the 3rd time I'd been asked this question and she was being rather condescending.

I replied by asking her what she majored in at University, she replied English.
I asked her at what age she began studying English. "Around the 4th grade." she replied.
I asked her if she attended English hagwons, she did, for a number of years.

I then asked her what type of English education she received if, after 8yrs of English education at schools and hagwons, as well as 4yrs studying for a university degree to teach English, she wasn't aware that South Africa is home to a few million native English speakers.

holy shit aristocrat you a savvvvage my dude

well, yes, it's different if you're friends. of course.

but saying, "you've got fat. you should lose weight" to somebody you've never spoken to, isn't acceptable

a principal commenting negatively on a young female co-worker's clothes, and embarrassing them in front of the office, isn't acceptable

By what standard?...

I do agree with you here; fair view of it. 

But, and I hate to bring it up, didn't you go out of your way recently to embarrass your coteacher after she asked quite an innocent question?

Which question was that?

Here it is.  Fair enough if she was being condescending but you put the boot in quite hard to embarrass (humiliate?) her...

This happened ages ago.
An Ex-CT asked me if South Africans can speak English... This was the 3rd time I'd been asked this question and she was being rather condescending.

I replied by asking her what she majored in at University, she replied English.
I asked her at what age she began studying English. "Around the 4th grade." she replied.
I asked her if she attended English hagwons, she did, for a number of years.

I then asked her what type of English education she received if, after 8yrs of English education at schools and hagwons, as well as 4yrs studying for a university degree to teach English, she wasn't aware that South Africa is home to a few million native English speakers.

I'm usually pretty mellow and simply ignore or dismiss insults, however, when my buttons are repeatedly pushed it can bring out the worst in me. This is a personal issue that'll likely land me in a lot of trouble someday.

If this question came from anyone else, I'd be happy to enlighten with a smile. The fact remains, it came from a professional who, by definition, makes a living out of teaching English and, as far as I'm concerned, should be thoroughly knowledgeable on multiple aspects of her subject matter and should be embarrassed if she didn't know such things.  Not only did she ask the question, I answered her, but she asked it a 3rd time and had been rather condescending to me for being a South African and had insulted me home. She deserved it, f*ck her.

Damn I didn't realise you're South African (for some reason I thought you were a fellow Brit haha).  In that case your response to her makes a lot more sense then.  Carry on!