RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

My 6th Period class on Mondays... I swear, it's the exact opposite of the problems I had with some classes at my last school in that NONE of the students have any energy whatsoever. Maybe two students will half-heartedly answer a question I ask. It's as if they all had a death in the family over the past weekend. And this is the "high" level class mind you. I even showed them the "What Does the Fox Say?" video and the most I got was a smile from one of them.

It's not awful, but it's draining when you're presenting and getting literally nothing back. (insert tired face)

2/3 classes at one of my travel schools are like that. I will say hello to them, and they will just sit there in silence.
Ask them an easy question from something that happened in the book, silence.
When we play a game, they are more open to talking in English, but are still super quiet and hard to hear, even when close to them. Only 3 students in both classes too.

The soccer students at my school have gone on stealing sprees, broken a window during a class because they didn't want to study, and even lit a small fire during my class (The fire was the only time they have been in trouble enough that they got visibly scared!).

Other than that, the teachers just say, they don't want to study, and they don't know what to do.
I'm happy that all the bad soccer students are leaving early into semester 2 haha. A couple I will miss, because they will actually study in class.

But usually, the teachers have given up on trying to discipline or anything with the soccer boys.
In NZ, teachers can actually get students benched for a game as a punishment, maybe I should suggest this to my co-teacher again. :p

the really dumb thing about this is that hardly any of them will make it, and then they'll have nothing to fall back on.  that's a hard fact.  i taught a provincial soccer player years ago in my middle school, who was sent by his parents to the countryside to live with his grandfather who used to beat him.  incredibly sad, but I caught him smoking in the toilets numerous times and nothing was done to discipline him.  every football tournament he played in, he was school captain and in every tournament he got sent off for mouthing off and swearing at the ref.  without blowing my own trumpet, I played at a very good level in England and was offered contracts and I can tell the students who'll probably make it, at least personality-wise and talent wise.  so I think that the ones you'll miss, will be the ones who are self--aware enough to make it or have the personality to get there.  in my school now, we have archery students.  one is really nice and tries her hardest in my class, whereas the other two just sit on their phones.  i can't blame them really as in the afternoon they spend 9 or 10 hours just doing archery. 

Oh wow, sorry to hear about your students situation. :'(
I don't know the personal life of mine but, I know they are all from Jeju, and a lot of them were flagged as problem children.
They had been travelling around Korea a lot trying to find a school that would take this team, they came to my main school but, the teacher's noticed quickly they'd be a huge problem, and none of them wanted to deal with that. My travel school principal, right before he retired, accepted them :\
About 3 Korean teachers left because of that (private school too), and 1 left again this year because of them too.

I also used to be good at soccer, not sure about whether or not I could have done so professionally, but a lot of soccer club teams, for teenagers, tried to recruit me a lot before I had even got to high school (which starts at 13 in NZ) because, some of the teenage teams had to play against the team I was on a few times during a year (and we were about 3 - 4 years younger than them) and I was one of 2 - 3 players that could hold my own against them.

I taught a class like that for 3yrs

My 6th Period class on Mondays... I swear, it's the exact opposite of the problems I had with some classes at my last school in that NONE of the students have any energy whatsoever. Maybe two students will half-heartedly answer a question I ask. It's as if they all had a death in the family over the past weekend. And this is the "high" level class mind you. I even showed them the "What Does the Fox Say?" video and the most I got was a smile from one of them.

It's not awful, but it's draining when you're presenting and getting literally nothing back. (insert tired face)
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My 6th Period class on Mondays... I swear, it's the exact opposite of the problems I had with some classes at my last school in that NONE of the students have any energy whatsoever. Maybe two students will half-heartedly answer a question I ask. It's as if they all had a death in the family over the past weekend. And this is the "high" level class mind you. I even showed them the "What Does the Fox Say?" video and the most I got was a smile from one of them.

It's not awful, but it's draining when you're presenting and getting literally nothing back. (insert tired face)

Feel you, the school I teach it usually keeps all the students in the same class when they get "promoted" to the next grade so, I taught a class like that for 3yrs. They were pretty much catatonic, and only really responded to listening and repeating back. A girl transfered from one of the other classes to the class in question, she was pretty lively, but very quickly adopted the attitude of the other students in her new class.

My CT and I tried everything over 3yrs and while we got a few sparks from some activities, they'd simply regress to staring at their shoes for following lesson.

Nevertheless, it offered some interesting insight into the psyche of these students as individuals and as a collective. I knew that
these kids weren't dumb, at least not all of them, there had to be a common factor between them and I hypothesized it as a cultural component. No kid wanted to stand out and actively participate, so when witnessing everyone else around them, they all just instinctually conformed to blend into the group. As time went on, for a single student to break the silence would've required even more guts than initially standing out and so, they all just conformed. I still find it remarkable that not one student in a class of 20 was nurtured to believe in themself and have confidence.

GF had a run-in with an ajumma. Who says that????

yep. an old co-worker had 2 babies, and returned to work (same school). some old guy she'd never talked to before said (on her first day back), "you've got fat. you should diet". who are these people..

yep. an old co-worker had 2 babies, and returned to work (same school). some old guy she'd never talked to before said (on her first day back), "you've got fat. you should diet". who are these people..

Yip! It seems the norm to comment on appearance. My ex principal would often comment on my ex co-teacher, she was young (always seems to happen to the younger ones it seems to me) and he would say stuff like, "Did you buy your top or did your mom knit it? " and then my co-T never wore it again. Over the winter he would say stuff like, "You've put on weight recently, you've been eating a lot this winter." And then she became obsessed with losing weight. I got severely sick one time and lost a bunch of weight to the point of looking anorexic, my eyes and cheeks were sunken, and my co-T would mention she wishes she could get sick too so she can lose weight like me, an I started receiving compliments from people that I looked good. When I returned home though, it was the opposite and people were freaked out over how I looked and genuinely became worried about my health.  This isn't just Korea though. A colleague of mine in Japan was told to button up her top button and told that she's too flat chested to be showing off her chest (by another younger colleague). When all she was showing off was just a couple of inches below her collar bone. It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

That's different cultures for ya

What happened? Is my personal favorite greeting from an old familiar face.

It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

That's different cultures for ya

I didn't know that being a disgusting, rude, intrusive piece of human garbage was "culture." On Korea's behalf, I object.

Bullshit to anyone who says "oh it's just cultural" for the never-ending nasty comments women get about how they look. NO. Do they walk up to the male teachers and make negative comments on their appearance? They do not. Seems to be all they ever say to men is  oooooh you are sooooo handsooooommmme merely because you are A) foreign, and B) alive. No.

Stop using "culture" to excuse workplace harassment. This is not cultural.

yep. an old co-worker had 2 babies, and returned to work (same school). some old guy she'd never talked to before said (on her first day back), "you've got fat. you should diet". who are these people..

Yip! It seems the norm to comment on appearance. My ex principal would often comment on my ex co-teacher, she was young (always seems to happen to the younger ones it seems to me) and he would say stuff like, "Did you buy your top or did your mom knit it? " and then my co-T never wore it again. Over the winter he would say stuff like, "You've put on weight recently, you've been eating a lot this winter." And then she became obsessed with losing weight. I got severely sick one time and lost a bunch of weight to the point of looking anorexic, my eyes and cheeks were sunken, and my co-T would mention she wishes she could get sick too so she can lose weight like me, an I started receiving compliments from people that I looked good. When I returned home though, it was the opposite and people were freaked out over how I looked and genuinely became worried about my health.  This isn't just Korea though. A colleague of mine in Japan was told to button up her top button and told that she's too flat chested to be showing off her chest (by another younger colleague). When all she was showing off was just a couple of inches below her collar bone. It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

back when i worked at public school, the new principal would often make the new, young, female teachers cry. other teachers said he just did it because he's a dick. he'd never say anything about the male teachers though (i was told). he was a complete and utter prick, yet because he was the principal, he could do literally anything he wanted...without anyone having any power to do anything about it. ugh

It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

That's different cultures for ya

I didn't know that being a disgusting, rude, intrusive piece of human garbage was "culture." On Korea's behalf, I object.

Bullshit to anyone who says "oh it's just cultural" for the never-ending nasty comments women get about how they look. NO. Do they walk up to the male teachers and make negative comments on their appearance? They do not. Seems to be all they ever say to men is  oooooh you are sooooo handsooooommmme merely because you are A) foreign, and B) alive. No.

Stop using "culture" to excuse workplace harassment. This is not cultural.

...... it's culture.

It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

That's different cultures for ya

I didn't know that being a disgusting, rude, intrusive piece of human garbage was "culture." On Korea's behalf, I object.

Bullshit to anyone who says "oh it's just cultural" for the never-ending nasty comments women get about how they look. NO. Do they walk up to the male teachers and make negative comments on their appearance? They do not. Seems to be all they ever say to men is  oooooh you are sooooo handsooooommmme merely because you are A) foreign, and B) alive. No.

Stop using "culture" to excuse workplace harassment. This is not cultural.

1) Rude is a cultural construct. Both the English and the French see each other as “rude”; the English never say what they mean, and the French are too direct.

2) As a man, I get called “Fat”... frequently. My usual response is, (with a smile) do you want to wrestle  me? Haven’t had any takers yet.

It's like these people were born without a filter or regard for other peoples feelings.

That's different cultures for ya

I didn't know that being a disgusting, rude, intrusive piece of human garbage was "culture." On Korea's behalf, I object.

Bullshit to anyone who says "oh it's just cultural" for the never-ending nasty comments women get about how they look. NO. Do they walk up to the male teachers and make negative comments on their appearance? They do not. Seems to be all they ever say to men is  oooooh you are sooooo handsooooommmme merely because you are A) foreign, and B) alive. No.

Stop using "culture" to excuse workplace harassment. This is not cultural.

1) Rude is a cultural construct. Both the English and the French see each other as “rude”; the English never say what they mean, and the French are too direct.

2) As a man, I get called “Fat”... frequently. My usual response is, (with a smile) do you want to wrestle  me? Haven’t had any takers yet.

In line with JNM and Aristocrat, being direct about one's appearance is a part of the culture.

I don't condone workplace harassment, and frankly I'd hardly consider it to be the case here. In their minds, it's absolutely ok to call out your appearance because that's the society we're in. They play by different rules.

Now, if a co-worker came up to you and said "Nice ass." then it'd be a different story. If you can't take the heat, I'm sad to say you'd probably be better off somewhere else.

korean people know it's not acceptable to say things like that to each other. they know it's rude to do so. the only "cultural" thing here is that people know they can't really say anything back if the dickhead is older or higher "status". so, i guess it's culture in so far as, "if you're older, you can be a prick without anybody calling you out on it"

korean people know it's not acceptable to say things like that to each other. they know it's rude to do so. the only "cultural" thing here is that people know they can't really say anything back if the dickhead is older or higher "status". so, i guess it's culture in so far as, "if you're older, you can be a prick without anybody calling you out on it"

Pretty much

I stand by my statement that it's 100% culture. What I also stand by is that it's grossly underestimated how dynamic and complex culture is.
It's pretty easy to observe that there's a massive cultural gap between Korean people, particularly the old and the young.

korean people know it's not acceptable to say things like that to each other. they know it's rude to do so. the only "cultural" thing here is that people know they can't really say anything back if the dickhead is older or higher "status". so, i guess it's culture in so far as, "if you're older, you can be a prick without anybody calling you out on it"

if we're being real about it, oglop is right.

if it truly is an innocent cultural norm and there's no hidden layer of passive aggressiveness or some kind of power play going on , then why does it only work one way...with only the senior commenting on the junior? how many times have you heard a teacher tell the vice principal or principal "you look tired today"?

then why does it only work one way...with only the senior commenting on the junior? how many times have you heard a teacher tell the vice principal or principal "you look tired today"?

Except it doesn't. For starters, this...

It's pretty easy to observe that there's a massive cultural gap between Korean people, particularly the old and the young.

Second, we don't know always know the personal dynamics between various Koreans. In some cases it certainly can be rude and insulting. In other cases the people are friendly and the directness and honesty is part of their friendship. Some friends like that directness and want to look their best.

Think of our various relationships. We have friends and coworkers who can say certain things to us that casual acquaintances could not. The important thing is not to jump to conclusions before knowing the facts. It certainly can be rude or harassing. It can also be no big deal and actually advice that the person appreciates.

well, yes, it's different if you're friends. of course.

but saying, "you've got fat. you should lose weight" to somebody you've never spoken to, isn't acceptable

a principal commenting negatively on a young female co-worker's clothes, and embarrassing them in front of the office, isn't acceptable

Yeah, the "It's culture" thing only goes so far.

Scenario 1:
VP: Kevin teacher, you've gained some weight over the last 4 months. Is everything okay? I hope you can lose some of it.

The Canadian in me sees this as bizarre but there's genuine concern here and there's no malice. I deem this okay.

Scenario 2
*walk into VP office*

  Kevin, you don't look so well today. You've gained some weight, too.

   INTERNALLY ugghhhhhh, really? In front of the teachers I've known for a while?

  Yeah, I feel okay, thanks.

This is not horrible. I don't like it, but I think the "It's culture" argument isn't bad here.

Scenario 3
 *Staff Meeting - ENTER Kevin Teacher*

  Wow, Kevin, you have gained a lot of weight and your clothes are not good. You need to change everything. I am helping.

  ------> 

Sorry, no. You are a fukking douche. I give cultural stuff a fair bit of leeway but this is just an asshole.

well, yes, it's different if you're friends. of course.

but saying, "you've got fat. you should lose weight" to somebody you've never spoken to, isn't acceptable

a principal commenting negatively on a young female co-worker's clothes, and embarrassing them in front of the office, isn't acceptable

By what standard?

As a kid, I was incredibly thin and many relatives, in particular, commented on and poked fun at my appearance. I developed a bit of a complex (all buff and ripped now). At that young age, I couldn't really relate with how fat people took such massive offense when they were  ridiculed and people couldn't understand why I got upset when I was made fun of for being thin.

Expand this to a national level and you'll understand what I'm saying.

During the 1950s, Americans were drinking, eating and smoking in an orgy of decadence. It was during this time that it was pretty common for women to be criticized for being too fat. Eating disorders ensued and since then, awareness has been raised on the seriousness of eating disorders, self-esteem etc.
In the 1950's Koreans were scouring the hills for anything edible and  truly celebrating an infant living past 100 days. Meat, honey and sugar were unfathomable luxuries, which is why I still get plenty of quizzical looks when I refuse food, particularly meat offerings.

Essentially, Korea is in 1960s America. It's starting to click that going out of your way to embarrass a person about their weight or appearance isn't acceptable. Old people like that principal are stuck in their ways, eating disorders just aren't part of his history.
He's a proper asshole, yes, but he's also a product of his own culture, not ours.