RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

Well, that's pretty presumptuous going and ASSUMING someone is competent.  Rude, even.

Well, you know what they say about assuming, right? It makes an "ass" out of "u" and... uh... some random dude named "Ming".

You've gone to immigration at least once a year during that time, I'd estimate. Why would you need someone to go to immigration with you? I've been here for almost nine years and literally only had someone go to immigration with me the very first time, to collect my ARC.

Tbf, it really depends on who you get in the office, and not all offices are created equal. There are immi offices that have really toxic work environments and that don't properly train their staff, and some officers absolutely WILL lie and give people wrong info whenever they come across something that they don't know how to handle.

It's a pretty smooth transaction as long as there aren't any problems with your paperwork or with anything that  immi has on file, but it also depends SOOO much on the immi officer not being a giant asshole.

I've had problems twice. The first time was my previous school's fault, but immi tried to penalize ME for it. It took over an hour to sort out, and there's no way I would have been able to do it on my own. The officer that was handling my paperwork was incredibly rude and uncooperative the entire time, and kept trying to shoo me out of the office.

The second problem was the immi officer's mistake, but that one took around ten minutes to sort because the officer wasn't being a dick and actually consulted his supervisor about it.

You've gone to immigration at least once a year during that time, I'd estimate. Why would you need someone to go to immigration with you? I've been here for almost nine years and literally only had someone go to immigration with me the very first time, to collect my ARC.

Tbf, it really depends on who you get in the office, and not all offices are created equal. There are immi offices that have really toxic work environments and that don't properly train their staff, and some officers absolutely WILL lie and give people wrong info whenever they come across something that they don't know how to handle.

It's a pretty smooth transaction as long as there aren't any problems with your paperwork or with anything that  immi has on file, but it also depends SOOO much on the immi officer not being a giant asshole.

I've had problems twice. The first time was my previous school's fault, but immi tried to penalize ME for it. It took over an hour to sort out, and there's no way I would have been able to do it on my own. The officer that was handling my paperwork was incredibly rude and uncooperative the entire time, and kept trying to shoo me out of the office.

The second problem was the immi officer's mistake, but that one took around ten minutes to sort because the officer wasn't being a dick and actually consulted his supervisor about it.

Yeah. I mean, I've been here for way too long, and I've had a couple miserable experiences with rude workers at immigration, too. I think everyone has. But, I never had anyone come to immigration with me beyond the very first time, and I somehow managed to work it out whenever problems came up.

Waygook.org user Mister Tim:

What I would suggest, is if you have someone who would be willing to spend an entire day going to immigration with you, instead of trying to take them away from work for a whole day, just make sure they've got their phone handy so that if a problem comes up, you can call them and they can help you.

Your VP will be happy he's not having to lose a day of work from two of his teachers instead of one. Your coworker will be happy they don't literally have to go to immigration for probably no reason.  And you'll be happy because everything will be okay. 

My new CT is 5 for 5 in asking me if I'm familiar with the food at lunch.

Wondering how many times I'm gonna have to say "Yes" before he gets the picture

Ajeossi on Subway: How long you been here?

Me: 5 years.

Ajeossi: Do you know ddeokbokki?

Me: FFS 

*On our way to the Cafeteria*

Me: Today's lunch is 함박스테이크.

CT: Oh!

Me: ...

CT: ...

Me: ...

CT: Do you know 함박스테이크?

 

My new CT is 5 for 5 in asking me if I'm familiar with the food at lunch.

Wondering how many times I'm gonna have to say "Yes" before he gets the picture

Ajeossi on Subway: How long you been here?

Me: 5 years.

Ajeossi: Do you know ddeokbokki?

Me: FFS 

*On our way to the Cafeteria*

Me: Today's lunch is 함박스테이크.

CT: Oh!

Me: ...

CT: ...

Me: ...

CT: Do you know 함박스테이크?

 

I've been here for almost nine years, and I still get people at work being surprised that I can eat the 'spicy' kimchi.

So. Yeah. It never goes away.

My new CT is 5 for 5 in asking me if I'm familiar with the food at lunch.

Wondering how many times I'm gonna have to say "Yes" before he gets the picture

Ajeossi on Subway: How long you been here?

Me: 5 years.

Ajeossi: Do you know ddeokbokki?

Me: FFS 

*On our way to the Cafeteria*

Me: Today's lunch is 함박스테이크.

CT: Oh!

Me: ...

CT: ...

Me: ...

CT: Do you know 함박스테이크?

 

I've been here for almost nine years, and I still get people at work being surprised that I can eat the 'spicy' kimchi.

So. Yeah. It never goes away.

I'm just saying, in this particular case, if I'm bringing up the specific food and have no questions about it, it would be sensible to ASSUME that I know what it is. It's not as if I said it with a confused tone. Didn't even mention that he went on to explain what it is after that... I need a *sigh* emoji

First, if you work for EPIK or SMOE, a trip to the immigration office to renew your visa is 출장. It's explicitly stated in the Korean guide for managing native teachers. He legally can't make you use a vacation day. Call your local MOE. Don't take that nonsense from him.

You must have some information that my Provincial Office of Education doesn't, because the first thing I did when my school told me I'd have to use a vacation day was contact my EPIK/POE liason, and he told me the same thing the school did. If I couldn't use a half-day/조퇴, I had to use a vacation day. Since I'm far enough away that I wouldn't be able to get it done with just a half day given the only time slot I was able to make an appointment, I'm SOL. If you know some Korea-wide law/regulation and can give me a link to something I can show them proving them wrong, that'd be cool.

Second, you've been here for a pretty long time. You've gone to immigration at least once a year during that time, I'd estimate. Why would you need someone to go to immigration with you? I've been here for almost nine years and literally only had someone go to immigration with me the very first time, to collect my ARC. No wonder the VP has a bad attitude about it - if your school is far away from immigration, and he sends someone with you, then that person's going to be away most of the day, too, so suddenly there are two instructors out of work instead of one. I feel like you're probably competent enough that you could do it yourself.

First of all, I don't know if you're trying to sound condescending, but you are. Just putting that out there, and letting you know that it's taking some real effort for me to not say something I might regret later right now.

Second, it's precisely because I've been here so long that I'd prefer someone comes along. As Chinguetti rightfully pointed out, sh!t can and does go wrong from time to time. Since you've been here a while too, you know that as well as we do. I don't necessarily expect that there will be problems, but I acknowledge the possibility that there might be and prefer to be prepared. That, plus if a coworker were able to take me and help out, I might've been able to only have to use a half-day rather than a full vacation day.

Incidentally, I did go, and got it taken care of. I made sure I was properly prepared with all the documents they could potentially ask for, and I had a few people I could call in case there was an issue. There wasn't, thankfully, but that doesn't mean I can't be annoyed that I wasn't allowed to have anyone accompany me.

503 Errors...****** 503 errors everywhere. It's like Oprah delivering unto her congregation of viewers bees. The gift of '**** you, have more,' when no, I'd really rather not. >.<

Yeah. I mean, I've been here for way too long, and I've had a couple miserable experiences with rude workers at immigration, too. I think everyone has. But, I never had anyone come to immigration with me beyond the very first time, and I somehow managed to work it out whenever problems came up.

That's fair enough, but I imagine that whatever problems you had probably would have been more quickly resolved if you'd had a native Korean with you. That, or the problems you had weren't major.

In my first example, the officer was blatantly trying to lie just to give me a hard time. He was making claims that weren't true and that I, without being able to understand or speak Korean, would not have been able to defend myself against. The entire office was being very dismissive towards me and were siding with the officer because he was "one of them." It got to a point where he was even saying that I might get deported.

If it hadn't been for my coT being there with me to communicate with them and to catch them saying anything inaccurate to the supervisor once he finally came into the office, it probably wouldn't have gotten resolved that day at all, and I might've had to fork over 400k won in penalty fees for something that I was not responsible for.

First, if you work for EPIK or SMOE, a trip to the immigration office to renew your visa is 출장. It's explicitly stated in the Korean guide for managing native teachers. He legally can't make you use a vacation day. Call your local MOE. Don't take that nonsense from him.

You must have some information that my Provincial Office of Education doesn't, because the first thing I did when my school told me I'd have to use a vacation day was contact my EPIK/POE liason, and he told me the same thing the school did. If I couldn't use a half-day/조퇴, I had to use a vacation day. Since I'm far enough away that I wouldn't be able to get it done with just a half day given the only time slot I was able to make an appointment, I'm SOL. If you know some Korea-wide law/regulation and can give me a link to something I can show them proving them wrong, that'd be cool.

In my contract (Gangwondo), it's specified it Article 11 (Renewals) #5. Visa renewals and medical examinations that must be completed during the Term of Employment for the purpose of renewing this Contract shall be registered and miscellaneous business trips, without a business trip stipend.

I'm guessing this is pretty standard in all EPIK contracts. I don't see how half-day or whole-day would change things.

In my contract (Gangwondo), it's specified it Article 11 (Renewals) #5. Visa renewals and medical examinations that must be completed during the Term of Employment for the purpose of renewing this Contract shall be registered and miscellaneous business trips, without a business trip stipend.

I'm guessing this is pretty standard in all EPIK contracts. I don't see how half-day or whole-day would change things.

It's the same for mine.

Except that I do get paid a small stipend to make that trip to immi.

Well, that's pretty presumptuous going and ASSUMING someone is competent.  Rude, even.

Well, you know what they say about assuming, right? It makes an "ass" out of "u" and... uh... some random dude named "Ming".

Alternatively, if you make an assumption, you'll look like an ass and the ump will shun you 

Mister Tim, glad you got it sorted, that sounded like a nightmare.  Did you end up having to use a vacation day.

#basedcowboyshirt, yeah I'd tone down your condescension and general high horsing if I were you.

In my contract (Gangwondo), it's specified it Article 11 (Renewals) #5. Visa renewals and medical examinations that must be completed during the Term of Employment for the purpose of renewing this Contract shall be registered and miscellaneous business trips, without a business trip stipend.

I'm guessing this is pretty standard in all EPIK contracts. I don't see how half-day or whole-day would change things.

Unfortunately for me, you guess incorrectly. I just went through my contract to see if there's a similar clause to the one you mentioned, and there is not.

Half day vs whole day changes things because of how they're entered in the NEIS system and how that affects the days off you've used. If I were able to come in for a few hours in the morning and then go to immigration, it would be registered as 조퇴 and I wouldn't have to use a vacation day. Since it couldn't do that and my contract doesn't provide for exceptions in cases such as going to immigration or medical, I had to use a vacation day.

...Yes, that means I'd also have to use a vacation day for my annual physical if I choose to renew again, if I'm unable to do the 조퇴 thing. Luckily, I should be able to just use a half-day for that, since I can just do walk-ins instead of being beholden to an online appointment schedule.

In my contract (Gangwondo), it's specified it Article 11 (Renewals) #5. Visa renewals and medical examinations that must be completed during the Term of Employment for the purpose of renewing this Contract shall be registered and miscellaneous business trips, without a business trip stipend.

I'm guessing this is pretty standard in all EPIK contracts. I don't see how half-day or whole-day would change things.

Unfortunately for me, you guess incorrectly. I just went through my contract to see if there's a similar clause to the one you mentioned, and there is not.

Half day vs whole day changes things because of how they're entered in the NEIS system and how that affects the days off you've used. If I were able to come in for a few hours in the morning and then go to immigration, it would be registered as 조퇴 and I wouldn't have to use a vacation day. Since it couldn't do that and my contract doesn't provide for exceptions in cases such as going to immigration or medical, I had to use a vacation day.

...Yes, that means I'd also have to use a vacation day for my annual physical if I choose to renew again, if I'm unable to do the 조퇴 thing. Luckily, I should be able to just use a half-day for that, since I can just do walk-ins instead of being beholden to an online appointment schedule.

Oh man, that's bullshirt.

And sorry, my whole day/half day comment was in relation to the contract clause. Which is a moot point because it's not in your contract.  I didn't fully write out my thought so that's my bad.

In my contract (Gangwondo), it's specified it Article 11 (Renewals) #5. Visa renewals and medical examinations that must be completed during the Term of Employment for the purpose of renewing this Contract shall be registered and miscellaneous business trips, without a business trip stipend.

I'm guessing this is pretty standard in all EPIK contracts. I don't see how half-day or whole-day would change things.

Unfortunately for me, you guess incorrectly. I just went through my contract to see if there's a similar clause to the one you mentioned, and there is not.

Half day vs whole day changes things because of how they're entered in the NEIS system and how that affects the days off you've used. If I were able to come in for a few hours in the morning and then go to immigration, it would be registered as 조퇴 and I wouldn't have to use a vacation day. Since it couldn't do that and my contract doesn't provide for exceptions in cases such as going to immigration or medical, I had to use a vacation day.

...Yes, that means I'd also have to use a vacation day for my annual physical if I choose to renew again, if I'm unable to do the 조퇴 thing. Luckily, I should be able to just use a half-day for that, since I can just do walk-ins instead of being beholden to an online appointment schedule.

NEIS is NEIS. It's standardized for every public school teacher in the country. Say you (hypothetically) work from 9-5, so eight hours. If you leave work at 1 and enter it as 조퇴, you're still using four hours of vacation time. So, if you (hypothetically) had all 21 days of your vacation time remaining, you would now have 20.5 days of vacation time remaining. If you 조퇴 at 10 (for whatever reason, who knows) you're using seven hours of vacation time. It doesn't matter how long you're gone for - it matters what it's entered as.

You're correct that if you come in for a few hours and then 조퇴 for whatever reason, it's not using a full vacation day. But it's not free time off. You're using your vacation time.

As for your VP forcing you to use 조퇴 for stuff that should be 출장, that's total BS. Your VP sounds unpleasant.

NEIS is NEIS. It's standardized for every public school teacher in the country. Say you (hypothetically) work from 9-5, so eight hours. If you leave work at 1 and enter it as 조퇴, you're still using four hours of vacation time. So, if you (hypothetically) had all 21 days of your vacation time remaining, you would now have 20.5 days of vacation time remaining. If you 조퇴 at 10 (for whatever reason, who knows) you're using seven hours of vacation time. It doesn't matter how long you're gone for - it matters what it's entered as.

You're correct that if you come in for a few hours and then 조퇴 for whatever reason, it's not using a full vacation day. But it's not free time off. You're using your vacation time.

As for your VP forcing you to use 조퇴 for stuff that should be 출장, that's total BS. Your VP sounds unpleasant.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. If you use a half day, do they really tell you "Sorry, you can only use 21.5 vacation days" when it comes time to schedule your summer/winter vacations? That they'll make you come in for half a day of desk warming? I've taken my share of half days over the years for things like medical checks and training/open classes at other schools, and I've literally never been told I only had whatever-and-a-half days left of my vacation.

At any rate, that's all irrelevant, since I was forced to use a vacation day because I couldn't just do a half day or business trip or what-the-****-ever, whether or not they'd subtract half a day from the vacation days I'd be allowed to use later in the year.

Also, just for posterity's sake, my VP is a lovely man. It's the Big Boss who's being a hardnose about all this.

Trips to Immigration and other mandatory errands should be registered as business trips. I do NEIS stuff myself (with help from co-workers in complicated situations) and that's how I register them.

nvm

#based is 100% correct. it gets entered as 출장 which is a business trip. because it's a business-related matter. same with the medical. you're not using personal time.

speak to your coordinator if you have a problem with the school regarding that. you absolutely should not have to use any vacation time.

if you can't get it resolved, then just refuse to go. i actually did that with one of my schools once. usage of vacation days is optional and they can't force you to take them. the school will most likely relent eventually because they'll realize they won't have an NET if you don't go to immi to renew your E2, which, incidentally, is a WORK visa.

and you can in fact take half vacation days. i've done that in the past when i've wanted to leave early on a friday to go to Busan or whatever. just take a half day here and another half day there.

#based is 100% correct. it gets entered as 출장 which is a business trip. because it's a business-related matter. same with the medical. you're not using personal time.

speak to your coordinator if you have a problem with the school regarding that. you absolutely should not have to use any vacation time.

Speaking to my coordinator was the very first thing I did. I was told that not only do I have to use a vacation day for it, but that that's how it's always been.

I think there are a few possibilities here. Either...

1) You guys are assigning national status to a rule that's actually varies from province to province, or...

2) There's a national law explicitly stating it doesn't require a vacation day, and my POE is unfamiliar with it.

I really hope it's the latter and that someone here can point me towards a national law/regulation/whatever stating I don't have to use a vacation day, so I can pass that along to my coordinator.

if you can't get it resolved, then just refuse to go. i actually did that with one of my schools once. usage of vacation days is optional and they can't force you to take them. the school will most likely relent eventually because they'll realize they won't have an NET if you don't go to immi to renew your E2, which, incidentally, is a WORK visa.

Too late, haha. I went yesterday. My old ARC was set to expire this coming Monday, and I don't think I'd have enjoyed paying whatever penalties I'd have had to pay if I'd have let it expire before trying to renew it. They didn't tell me I'd have to use a vacation day until the day before my appointment.

and you can in fact take half vacation days. i've done that in the past when i've wanted to leave early on a friday to go to Busan or whatever. just take a half day here and another half day there.

I'm wondering if I might be confused about terminology here.

I commute about 45 minutes to and from work, and when I have mandatory training events they tend to be in locations in the opposite direction from my apartment compared to my school. Sometimes they're in a location that will require about two hours' travel from my school, versus 1-1.25 hours travel from my apartment. I'm still required to come in to school in the morning even if I don't have any classes scheduled.

When I asked if I could just stay home in the morning so I could just go straight to training rather than commuting in the opposite direction then travelling for two hours, my CoT said something to the effect of "Teachers are required to come in for two periods before leaving for training. Even the Korean teachers." There seemed to be some NEIS-related reason for that, but he couldn't explain it very well, so I don't know.

Does that mean there's a difference in how different kinds of business trips are treated with regards to whether or not you have to come in first? So maybe it's not the same as "taking a half day," but more like "You have to be able to come in first in order to get this kind of business trip"? Is the issue here that immigration and medical are considered the type of business trip for which you have to come in to work first, and since I couldn't come in first if I wanted to make it to my appointment on time, I don't qualify for that kind of business trip?

I don't know. Fingers crossed someone can point me towards the regulation saying they can't make me use a day, hahaha.