RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

with regards to the 'taking a vacation day', could you not do a half-day holiday? a '조퇴' (go out but not come back)? so have school in the morning or until 11am for example and then take the rest of the day off to do your stuff?  in a one year contract you need to have a full 8 hours of 조퇴/외출 for it to be considered a vacation day. with 외출 you're expected to come back to school.

fwiw, this was changed and isn't true anymore (at least in busan). if you take one hour, it takes away the vacation day. you then have 7 hours to use before they'll take the second day (ex. 9 hours would take away 2 vacation days).

I find it strange how so many teachers are willing to believe that students are super innocent, even the teachers with a ton of experience. A lot of them believe that the best way to understand these kids is to think the best of them, no matter what they do, and it's such a naive way of thinking. You can't just ignore certain behaviors and accept any excuse a student may give for them. Kids ****** lie, and they're not always so benevolent. And it isn't always the most obvious problem students who are the biggest troublemakers.

But that's an old story.

Also:

I have to  go to immigration to renew my ARC tomorrow, and my principal won't allow anyone to accompany me because the rules don't say he has to. Based on my past experiences with my local immi office, it's going to be a bit of a crapshoot whether or not anyone there speaks English well enough to address any issues that might come up. I doubt I'll have any problems, but I'm still annoyed that His Royal Highness forbids anyone from helping me.

To make it even more fun, I've just been told I have to use a vacation day to do it, because my school is far enough away from immi that I wouldn't be able to make it there and back without missing all of my classes. I have to use one of my days to go take care of official documents that are required for me to continue to live here (and by extension teach here), nevermind that I'm only going tomorrow because we have to have appointments ahead of time to see anyone at immi now and tomorrow was the earliest appointment I could get despite making the appointment weeks ago.

Ugh. That was a rambling mess, but I'm too grumpy to sort it out.

First, if you work for EPIK or SMOE, a trip to the immigration office to renew your visa is 출장. It's explicitly stated in the Korean guide for managing native teachers. He legally can't make you use a vacation day. Call your local MOE. Don't take that nonsense from him.

Second, you've been here for a pretty long time. You've gone to immigration at least once a year during that time, I'd estimate. Why would you need someone to go to immigration with you? I've been here for almost nine years and literally only had someone go to immigration with me the very first time, to collect my ARC. No wonder the VP has a bad attitude about it - if your school is far away from immigration, and he sends someone with you, then that person's going to be away most of the day, too, so suddenly there are two instructors out of work instead of one. I feel like you're probably competent enough that you could do it yourself.

I have to  go to immigration to renew my ARC tomorrow, and my principal won't allow anyone to accompany me because the rules don't say he has to. Based on my past experiences with my local immi office, it's going to be a bit of a crapshoot whether or not anyone there speaks English well enough to address any issues that might come up. I doubt I'll have any problems, but I'm still annoyed that His Royal Highness forbids anyone from helping me.

To make it even more fun, I've just been told I have to use a vacation day to do it, because my school is far enough away from immi that I wouldn't be able to make it there and back without missing all of my classes. I have to use one of my days to go take care of official documents that are required for me to continue to live here (and by extension teach here), nevermind that I'm only going tomorrow because we have to have appointments ahead of time to see anyone at immi now and tomorrow was the earliest appointment I could get despite making the appointment weeks ago.

Ugh. That was a rambling mess, but I'm too grumpy to sort it out.

First, if you work for EPIK or SMOE, a trip to the immigration office to renew your visa is 출장. It's explicitly stated in the Korean guide for managing native teachers. He legally can't make you use a vacation day. Call your local MOE. Don't take that nonsense from him.

Second, you've been here for a pretty long time. You've gone to immigration at least once a year during that time, I'd estimate. Why would you need someone to go to immigration with you? I've been here for almost nine years and literally only had someone go to immigration with me the very first time, to collect my ARC. No wonder the VP has a bad attitude about it - if your school is far away from immigration, and he sends someone with you, then that person's going to be away most of the day, too, so suddenly there are two instructors out of work instead of one. I feel like you're probably competent enough that you could do it yourself.

Well, that's pretty presumptuous going and ASSUMING someone is competent.  Rude, even. 

Well, that's pretty presumptuous going and ASSUMING someone is competent.  Rude, even.

Well, you know what they say about assuming, right? It makes an "ass" out of "u" and... uh... some random dude named "Ming".

You've gone to immigration at least once a year during that time, I'd estimate. Why would you need someone to go to immigration with you? I've been here for almost nine years and literally only had someone go to immigration with me the very first time, to collect my ARC.

Tbf, it really depends on who you get in the office, and not all offices are created equal. There are immi offices that have really toxic work environments and that don't properly train their staff, and some officers absolutely WILL lie and give people wrong info whenever they come across something that they don't know how to handle.

It's a pretty smooth transaction as long as there aren't any problems with your paperwork or with anything that  immi has on file, but it also depends SOOO much on the immi officer not being a giant asshole.

I've had problems twice. The first time was my previous school's fault, but immi tried to penalize ME for it. It took over an hour to sort out, and there's no way I would have been able to do it on my own. The officer that was handling my paperwork was incredibly rude and uncooperative the entire time, and kept trying to shoo me out of the office.

The second problem was the immi officer's mistake, but that one took around ten minutes to sort because the officer wasn't being a dick and actually consulted his supervisor about it.

You've gone to immigration at least once a year during that time, I'd estimate. Why would you need someone to go to immigration with you? I've been here for almost nine years and literally only had someone go to immigration with me the very first time, to collect my ARC.

Tbf, it really depends on who you get in the office, and not all offices are created equal. There are immi offices that have really toxic work environments and that don't properly train their staff, and some officers absolutely WILL lie and give people wrong info whenever they come across something that they don't know how to handle.

It's a pretty smooth transaction as long as there aren't any problems with your paperwork or with anything that  immi has on file, but it also depends SOOO much on the immi officer not being a giant asshole.

I've had problems twice. The first time was my previous school's fault, but immi tried to penalize ME for it. It took over an hour to sort out, and there's no way I would have been able to do it on my own. The officer that was handling my paperwork was incredibly rude and uncooperative the entire time, and kept trying to shoo me out of the office.

The second problem was the immi officer's mistake, but that one took around ten minutes to sort because the officer wasn't being a dick and actually consulted his supervisor about it.

Yeah. I mean, I've been here for way too long, and I've had a couple miserable experiences with rude workers at immigration, too. I think everyone has. But, I never had anyone come to immigration with me beyond the very first time, and I somehow managed to work it out whenever problems came up.

Waygook.org user Mister Tim:

What I would suggest, is if you have someone who would be willing to spend an entire day going to immigration with you, instead of trying to take them away from work for a whole day, just make sure they've got their phone handy so that if a problem comes up, you can call them and they can help you.

Your VP will be happy he's not having to lose a day of work from two of his teachers instead of one. Your coworker will be happy they don't literally have to go to immigration for probably no reason.  And you'll be happy because everything will be okay. 

My new CT is 5 for 5 in asking me if I'm familiar with the food at lunch.

Wondering how many times I'm gonna have to say "Yes" before he gets the picture

Ajeossi on Subway: How long you been here?

Me: 5 years.

Ajeossi: Do you know ddeokbokki?

Me: FFS 

*On our way to the Cafeteria*

Me: Today's lunch is 함박스테이크.

CT: Oh!

Me: ...

CT: ...

Me: ...

CT: Do you know 함박스테이크?

 

My new CT is 5 for 5 in asking me if I'm familiar with the food at lunch.

Wondering how many times I'm gonna have to say "Yes" before he gets the picture

Ajeossi on Subway: How long you been here?

Me: 5 years.

Ajeossi: Do you know ddeokbokki?

Me: FFS 

*On our way to the Cafeteria*

Me: Today's lunch is 함박스테이크.

CT: Oh!

Me: ...

CT: ...

Me: ...

CT: Do you know 함박스테이크?

 

I've been here for almost nine years, and I still get people at work being surprised that I can eat the 'spicy' kimchi.

So. Yeah. It never goes away.

My new CT is 5 for 5 in asking me if I'm familiar with the food at lunch.

Wondering how many times I'm gonna have to say "Yes" before he gets the picture

Ajeossi on Subway: How long you been here?

Me: 5 years.

Ajeossi: Do you know ddeokbokki?

Me: FFS 

*On our way to the Cafeteria*

Me: Today's lunch is 함박스테이크.

CT: Oh!

Me: ...

CT: ...

Me: ...

CT: Do you know 함박스테이크?

 

I've been here for almost nine years, and I still get people at work being surprised that I can eat the 'spicy' kimchi.

So. Yeah. It never goes away.

I'm just saying, in this particular case, if I'm bringing up the specific food and have no questions about it, it would be sensible to ASSUME that I know what it is. It's not as if I said it with a confused tone. Didn't even mention that he went on to explain what it is after that... I need a *sigh* emoji

First, if you work for EPIK or SMOE, a trip to the immigration office to renew your visa is 출장. It's explicitly stated in the Korean guide for managing native teachers. He legally can't make you use a vacation day. Call your local MOE. Don't take that nonsense from him.

You must have some information that my Provincial Office of Education doesn't, because the first thing I did when my school told me I'd have to use a vacation day was contact my EPIK/POE liason, and he told me the same thing the school did. If I couldn't use a half-day/조퇴, I had to use a vacation day. Since I'm far enough away that I wouldn't be able to get it done with just a half day given the only time slot I was able to make an appointment, I'm SOL. If you know some Korea-wide law/regulation and can give me a link to something I can show them proving them wrong, that'd be cool.

Second, you've been here for a pretty long time. You've gone to immigration at least once a year during that time, I'd estimate. Why would you need someone to go to immigration with you? I've been here for almost nine years and literally only had someone go to immigration with me the very first time, to collect my ARC. No wonder the VP has a bad attitude about it - if your school is far away from immigration, and he sends someone with you, then that person's going to be away most of the day, too, so suddenly there are two instructors out of work instead of one. I feel like you're probably competent enough that you could do it yourself.

First of all, I don't know if you're trying to sound condescending, but you are. Just putting that out there, and letting you know that it's taking some real effort for me to not say something I might regret later right now.

Second, it's precisely because I've been here so long that I'd prefer someone comes along. As Chinguetti rightfully pointed out, sh!t can and does go wrong from time to time. Since you've been here a while too, you know that as well as we do. I don't necessarily expect that there will be problems, but I acknowledge the possibility that there might be and prefer to be prepared. That, plus if a coworker were able to take me and help out, I might've been able to only have to use a half-day rather than a full vacation day.

Incidentally, I did go, and got it taken care of. I made sure I was properly prepared with all the documents they could potentially ask for, and I had a few people I could call in case there was an issue. There wasn't, thankfully, but that doesn't mean I can't be annoyed that I wasn't allowed to have anyone accompany me.

503 Errors...****** 503 errors everywhere. It's like Oprah delivering unto her congregation of viewers bees. The gift of '**** you, have more,' when no, I'd really rather not. >.<

Yeah. I mean, I've been here for way too long, and I've had a couple miserable experiences with rude workers at immigration, too. I think everyone has. But, I never had anyone come to immigration with me beyond the very first time, and I somehow managed to work it out whenever problems came up.

That's fair enough, but I imagine that whatever problems you had probably would have been more quickly resolved if you'd had a native Korean with you. That, or the problems you had weren't major.

In my first example, the officer was blatantly trying to lie just to give me a hard time. He was making claims that weren't true and that I, without being able to understand or speak Korean, would not have been able to defend myself against. The entire office was being very dismissive towards me and were siding with the officer because he was "one of them." It got to a point where he was even saying that I might get deported.

If it hadn't been for my coT being there with me to communicate with them and to catch them saying anything inaccurate to the supervisor once he finally came into the office, it probably wouldn't have gotten resolved that day at all, and I might've had to fork over 400k won in penalty fees for something that I was not responsible for.

First, if you work for EPIK or SMOE, a trip to the immigration office to renew your visa is 출장. It's explicitly stated in the Korean guide for managing native teachers. He legally can't make you use a vacation day. Call your local MOE. Don't take that nonsense from him.

You must have some information that my Provincial Office of Education doesn't, because the first thing I did when my school told me I'd have to use a vacation day was contact my EPIK/POE liason, and he told me the same thing the school did. If I couldn't use a half-day/조퇴, I had to use a vacation day. Since I'm far enough away that I wouldn't be able to get it done with just a half day given the only time slot I was able to make an appointment, I'm SOL. If you know some Korea-wide law/regulation and can give me a link to something I can show them proving them wrong, that'd be cool.

In my contract (Gangwondo), it's specified it Article 11 (Renewals) #5. Visa renewals and medical examinations that must be completed during the Term of Employment for the purpose of renewing this Contract shall be registered and miscellaneous business trips, without a business trip stipend.

I'm guessing this is pretty standard in all EPIK contracts. I don't see how half-day or whole-day would change things.

In my contract (Gangwondo), it's specified it Article 11 (Renewals) #5. Visa renewals and medical examinations that must be completed during the Term of Employment for the purpose of renewing this Contract shall be registered and miscellaneous business trips, without a business trip stipend.

I'm guessing this is pretty standard in all EPIK contracts. I don't see how half-day or whole-day would change things.

It's the same for mine.

Except that I do get paid a small stipend to make that trip to immi.

Well, that's pretty presumptuous going and ASSUMING someone is competent.  Rude, even.

Well, you know what they say about assuming, right? It makes an "ass" out of "u" and... uh... some random dude named "Ming".

Alternatively, if you make an assumption, you'll look like an ass and the ump will shun you 

Mister Tim, glad you got it sorted, that sounded like a nightmare.  Did you end up having to use a vacation day.

#basedcowboyshirt, yeah I'd tone down your condescension and general high horsing if I were you.

In my contract (Gangwondo), it's specified it Article 11 (Renewals) #5. Visa renewals and medical examinations that must be completed during the Term of Employment for the purpose of renewing this Contract shall be registered and miscellaneous business trips, without a business trip stipend.

I'm guessing this is pretty standard in all EPIK contracts. I don't see how half-day or whole-day would change things.

Unfortunately for me, you guess incorrectly. I just went through my contract to see if there's a similar clause to the one you mentioned, and there is not.

Half day vs whole day changes things because of how they're entered in the NEIS system and how that affects the days off you've used. If I were able to come in for a few hours in the morning and then go to immigration, it would be registered as 조퇴 and I wouldn't have to use a vacation day. Since it couldn't do that and my contract doesn't provide for exceptions in cases such as going to immigration or medical, I had to use a vacation day.

...Yes, that means I'd also have to use a vacation day for my annual physical if I choose to renew again, if I'm unable to do the 조퇴 thing. Luckily, I should be able to just use a half-day for that, since I can just do walk-ins instead of being beholden to an online appointment schedule.

In my contract (Gangwondo), it's specified it Article 11 (Renewals) #5. Visa renewals and medical examinations that must be completed during the Term of Employment for the purpose of renewing this Contract shall be registered and miscellaneous business trips, without a business trip stipend.

I'm guessing this is pretty standard in all EPIK contracts. I don't see how half-day or whole-day would change things.

Unfortunately for me, you guess incorrectly. I just went through my contract to see if there's a similar clause to the one you mentioned, and there is not.

Half day vs whole day changes things because of how they're entered in the NEIS system and how that affects the days off you've used. If I were able to come in for a few hours in the morning and then go to immigration, it would be registered as 조퇴 and I wouldn't have to use a vacation day. Since it couldn't do that and my contract doesn't provide for exceptions in cases such as going to immigration or medical, I had to use a vacation day.

...Yes, that means I'd also have to use a vacation day for my annual physical if I choose to renew again, if I'm unable to do the 조퇴 thing. Luckily, I should be able to just use a half-day for that, since I can just do walk-ins instead of being beholden to an online appointment schedule.

Oh man, that's bullshirt.

And sorry, my whole day/half day comment was in relation to the contract clause. Which is a moot point because it's not in your contract.  I didn't fully write out my thought so that's my bad.

In my contract (Gangwondo), it's specified it Article 11 (Renewals) #5. Visa renewals and medical examinations that must be completed during the Term of Employment for the purpose of renewing this Contract shall be registered and miscellaneous business trips, without a business trip stipend.

I'm guessing this is pretty standard in all EPIK contracts. I don't see how half-day or whole-day would change things.

Unfortunately for me, you guess incorrectly. I just went through my contract to see if there's a similar clause to the one you mentioned, and there is not.

Half day vs whole day changes things because of how they're entered in the NEIS system and how that affects the days off you've used. If I were able to come in for a few hours in the morning and then go to immigration, it would be registered as 조퇴 and I wouldn't have to use a vacation day. Since it couldn't do that and my contract doesn't provide for exceptions in cases such as going to immigration or medical, I had to use a vacation day.

...Yes, that means I'd also have to use a vacation day for my annual physical if I choose to renew again, if I'm unable to do the 조퇴 thing. Luckily, I should be able to just use a half-day for that, since I can just do walk-ins instead of being beholden to an online appointment schedule.

NEIS is NEIS. It's standardized for every public school teacher in the country. Say you (hypothetically) work from 9-5, so eight hours. If you leave work at 1 and enter it as 조퇴, you're still using four hours of vacation time. So, if you (hypothetically) had all 21 days of your vacation time remaining, you would now have 20.5 days of vacation time remaining. If you 조퇴 at 10 (for whatever reason, who knows) you're using seven hours of vacation time. It doesn't matter how long you're gone for - it matters what it's entered as.

You're correct that if you come in for a few hours and then 조퇴 for whatever reason, it's not using a full vacation day. But it's not free time off. You're using your vacation time.

As for your VP forcing you to use 조퇴 for stuff that should be 출장, that's total BS. Your VP sounds unpleasant.

NEIS is NEIS. It's standardized for every public school teacher in the country. Say you (hypothetically) work from 9-5, so eight hours. If you leave work at 1 and enter it as 조퇴, you're still using four hours of vacation time. So, if you (hypothetically) had all 21 days of your vacation time remaining, you would now have 20.5 days of vacation time remaining. If you 조퇴 at 10 (for whatever reason, who knows) you're using seven hours of vacation time. It doesn't matter how long you're gone for - it matters what it's entered as.

You're correct that if you come in for a few hours and then 조퇴 for whatever reason, it's not using a full vacation day. But it's not free time off. You're using your vacation time.

As for your VP forcing you to use 조퇴 for stuff that should be 출장, that's total BS. Your VP sounds unpleasant.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. If you use a half day, do they really tell you "Sorry, you can only use 21.5 vacation days" when it comes time to schedule your summer/winter vacations? That they'll make you come in for half a day of desk warming? I've taken my share of half days over the years for things like medical checks and training/open classes at other schools, and I've literally never been told I only had whatever-and-a-half days left of my vacation.

At any rate, that's all irrelevant, since I was forced to use a vacation day because I couldn't just do a half day or business trip or what-the-****-ever, whether or not they'd subtract half a day from the vacation days I'd be allowed to use later in the year.

Also, just for posterity's sake, my VP is a lovely man. It's the Big Boss who's being a hardnose about all this.