RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

I don't know why I bother having class rules when I'm not allowed to enforce any real consequences for breaking them. It'd be nice if my school had my back on it, but they absolutely do not. I'm seriously tempted to remove "No sleeping" and "Always bring your book and a writing utensil" from my classroom rules, because trying to enforce them is totally pointless. If the KETs and school administrators deal with disobedient students by just throwing their hands up and saying "Oh well, what're you gonna do, am I right?" then maybe I should, too.

they are just children....please understand them

In my case, the response is more like "We wish we could do something about it, too, but we can't."

I teach teenagers, so the "oh, they're just cute little kids!" is rarely used to excuse bad behavior (not never, but rarely). I've talked to KETs about it, and they say they're just as frustrated about it as I am. They talk about how in the past, a misbehaving student would just get a few sharp whacks, and that'd be the end of it.

I'm not advocating for a return to corporal punishment or anything (I'll leave that to Cynea/Aurata), but it's definitely a problem that when they got rid of corporal punishment, they didn't institute anything in its place. No detention, no suspension, no extra homework, nothing. A student can come to school and act up and/or do sweet f*ck-all from the first day of elementary to the last day of high school, and still graduate on time with all his friends, having learned nothing except that there are no consequences for his actions.

I'm honestly not convinced it does frustrate them as much as it frustrates me, though  . They seem content to just let students sleep through class or have conversations amongst themselves, whereas seeing students constantly and knowingly break rules that have been clearly outlined multiple times throughout the year really eats at me. I concede that I could afford to lighten up a little sometimes (you can take the man out of the military, etc etc), but I'm not sure I'm quite ready to lighten up as much as the KETs do.

Sigh.

I don't know why I bother having class rules when I'm not allowed to enforce any real consequences for breaking them. It'd be nice if my school had my back on it, but they absolutely do not. I'm seriously tempted to remove "No sleeping" and "Always bring your book and a writing utensil" from my classroom rules, because trying to enforce them is totally pointless. If the KETs and school administrators deal with disobedient students by just throwing their hands up and saying "Oh well, what're you gonna do, am I right?" then maybe I should, too.

I have university students who turn up to their final exams without pens or pencils, and not just freshmen.  Every semester at least 3 students sit like lemons, and WAIT until i ask is they have a pan or pencil before they say "no".  i even remind them in the class before the exam that they must bring a pen or pencil.  This semester, if they sit silently, i am just going to leave them, if they don't have the gumption to ask, let them fail!  I am surprised these "adults" know how to wipe their arses sometimes.

Is the university situation still like the old days, where some universities will pass students no matter how poorly they perform?

A friend of mine emailed her professor (a British guy teaching an English Lit course as part of her master's degree) asking if he would change her grade because "Korean professors always do that and just give you 100%".  She also asked him if they could "skip the final exam" because "Koreans usually don't have to do that at uni".

A lot of that is just students trying to hoodwink apparently clueless foreign teachers. I've noticed that students asking for grade increases had dropped way off in the last 3 or 4 years. The first year I was here, after grades were released my email would be flooded with sob stories about how they "need an A" for a scholarship, their dying family member, a job to support said dying family member etc.

I think former President, Ms. Park's friend's daughter, who was found out to have received A grades even though she never set foot in a lecture and was riding horses in Europe, had a big impact. The place I work is much stricter on attendance now. And if I do want to change someone's grade now, evidence must be provided. It's quite a lengthy process that teachers/Korean professors can't do themselves. It has to go through the admin office which is more trouble than it's worth.

I don't know why I bother having class rules when I'm not allowed to enforce any real consequences for breaking them. It'd be nice if my school had my back on it, but they absolutely do not. I'm seriously tempted to remove "No sleeping" and "Always bring your book and a writing utensil" from my classroom rules, because trying to enforce them is totally pointless. If the KETs and school administrators deal with disobedient students by just throwing their hands up and saying "Oh well, what're you gonna do, am I right?" then maybe I should, too.

they are just children....please understand them

In my case, the response is more like "We wish we could do something about it, too, but we can't."

I'm not advocating for a return to corporal punishment or anything (I'll leave that to Cynea/Aurata), but it's definitely a problem that when they got rid of corporal punishment, they didn't institute anything in its place. No detention, no suspension, no extra homework, nothing. A student can come to school and act up and/or do sweet f*ck-all from the first day of elementary to the last day of high school, and still graduate on time with all his friends, having learned nothing except that there are no consequences for his actions.

I'm honestly not convinced it does frustrate them as much as it frustrates me, though  .

The worst thing is when teachers are like "I don't understand why they are like this." We can tell them straight up what the reason is and they'll still be confused.

What can you do?

I have university students who turn up to their final exams without pens or pencils, and not just freshmen.  Every semester at least 3 students sit like lemons, and WAIT until i ask is they have a pan or pencil before they say "no".  i even remind them in the class before the exam that they must bring a pen or pencil.  This semester, if they sit silently, i am just going to leave them, if they don't have the gumption to ask, let them fail!  I am surprised these "adults" know how to wipe their arses sometimes.

I love these students. Sometimes when grading to a curve, there is a definite dearth of voluntary Cs (or Ds, Es, and Fs). If a student wants to waste their entire class waiting for the prof to hand them a pencil, then they deserve whatever they (don't) get. 

A lot of that is just students trying to hoodwink apparently clueless foreign teachers. I've noticed that students asking for grade increases had dropped way off in the last 3 or 4 years. The first year I was here, after grades were released my email would be flooded with sob stories about how they "need an A" for a scholarship, their dying family member, a job to support said dying family member etc.

  Didn't they recently pass a law making it illegal for uni students to ask for grade increases from their profs?

  Didn't they recently pass a law making it illegal for uni students to ask for grade increases from their profs?

Isn't there a law making it illegal to run a red light? 

  Didn't they recently pass a law making it illegal for uni students to ask for grade increases from their profs?

Isn't there a law making it illegal to run a red light? 

Touche!

But now when a student starts that annoying pleading, you can pull out the ol' "It is illegal for me to change your grades, and it is illegal for you to ask me to. Do you really want to be breaking the law?" 

I have open class tomorrow... which isn't a big deal in itself, but being told back in Sep. that we were going to have it in Nov. then it being put off and then put off again, I thought (<~ my first mistake) maybe we weren't going to have it all.  Well, I was wrong.  My CoT came into my classroom to inform me that it's tomorrow and here's what she wants me to do.  She's had my email and my kakao ID for months but didn't bother to send me the lesson plan or even discuss it with me until 5 minutes before I had class.   

I'm not mad, mind you, just annoyed.  Funny part is, we're doing a "flea market" and she asked if I could bring things from home (American) that one would buy at a (North American) flea market. Ummmmm, FYI, I live in Korea and (my American coming out) I ain't got no sh*t that's American at home!  Back in the States, sure, but honey, I live in Korea!  What kind of "North American" things do you want me to bring in?     Hell!  Even my clothes are Korean. 

Good grief! 

Sat in the office listening to someone shout talking down the phone on speaker phone whilst chomping down on an apple and I want to throw my keyboard off his head! I can feel the rage growing inside me. 

is it really necessary to leave a note saying "when finish your class, please turn off computer!!" when once - in 10 months - this situation has happened?  it wasn't even my fault - it must have done some system updates after i pressed "off" then restarted.

is it really necessary to leave a note saying "when finish your class, please turn off computer!!" when once - in 10 months - this situation has happened?  it wasn't even my fault - it must have done some system updates after i pressed "off" then restarted.

Of course it is!  Didn't you know that YOU are the reason why electricity is so expensive in Korea?!  You damn waygook!  Gaaaaah!   

is it really necessary to leave a note saying "when finish your class, please turn off computer!!" when once - in 10 months - this situation has happened?  it wasn't even my fault - it must have done some system updates after i pressed "off" then restarted.

Jesus that sort of thing really gets on my nerves.

Recent example...I can't ever remember being late for a class, it's just not me.  The other day I was at my desk when the bell rang and presumably because I wasn't getting up the nano second I heard the bell, my CT said "You've got a class now??".  If I had shown a pattern of lateness then yeah give me a nudge but holy sh*t.

But when my CT and all the other teachers in my office are still chatting and doing nothing and then meander slowly to their classes five to ten minutes late, that's fine.

is it really necessary to leave a note saying "when finish your class, please turn off computer!!" when once - in 10 months - this situation has happened?  it wasn't even my fault - it must have done some system updates after i pressed "off" then restarted.

Jesus that sort of thing really gets on my nerves.

Recent example...I can't ever remember being late for a class, it's just not me.  The other day I was at my desk when the bell rang and presumably because I wasn't getting up the nano second I heard the bell, my CT said "You've got a class now??".  If I had shown a pattern of lateness then yeah give me a nudge but holy sh*t.

But when my CT and all the other teachers in my office are still chatting and doing nothing and then meander slowly to their classes five to ten minutes late, that's fine.

i accidentally left one of the wall-mounted electric fans on a few months ago, and i am not joking when i say it took a 5-teacher, 30 minute inquiry to discuss it. they were all standing outside the classroom in a circle, occasionally looking at me. it was so laughable, i had a hard time keeping a straight face. i was eventually told off, much like a naughty student would be, and someone came around every night for a while before i went home to make sure they were all turned off 

if i had left a fan on in england the conversation would have gone like this (if anyone even bothered to mention it, whih they probably wouldn't have)

"oh yeah, you left a fan on last night by the way"
"ah really. didn't know, sorry"
"yeah it's ok. anyway, what are you doing this weekend?"

is it really necessary to leave a note saying "when finish your class, please turn off computer!!" when once - in 10 months - this situation has happened?  it wasn't even my fault - it must have done some system updates after i pressed "off" then restarted.

Jesus that sort of thing really gets on my nerves.

Recent example...I can't ever remember being late for a class, it's just not me.  The other day I was at my desk when the bell rang and presumably because I wasn't getting up the nano second I heard the bell, my CT said "You've got a class now??".  If I had shown a pattern of lateness then yeah give me a nudge but holy sh*t.

But when my CT and all the other teachers in my office are still chatting and doing nothing and then meander slowly to their classes five to ten minutes late, that's fine.

At my school, the HR teacher is more or less required to lead their classes to their specials.  I make classes line up outside in order to calm everyone down, remind them to put out their books, nametag, pencilcase, etc, and then I greet them sort of individually as they enter the classroom. (This is something you will definitely benefit from if you don't do it already! It marks a space between whatever else in the world, and English class time.)

If a class is not ready outside when the bell rings, I always point out--not directly looking at the HR teacher, but kind of, looking at my watch (well, where my watch would be since I don't wear one anymore, but they understand)--"Oh, you guys are late today! I am sure we can be better prepared for English class next time." So, there's no actual face being lost, but they pick it up pretty well.

I also have my Co-T point out to HR teachers the math involved very early on in the year:  Let's say a class meets three times a week.  You're late by a mere three minutes each time.  In one month, that's an entire English class your HR students have missed!  (3X3X4.3=39 min)

So, sorry, Alex--it sounds like you had to leave your desk to get to the classroom?  Yeah, you were late.  It doesn't matter if other people are later. You should be ready to teach when that bell rings! You have 40 minutes of English class, be prepared to use all 40 minutes, and insist on your 40 minutes--otherwise, what are you being paid for?

It's not about being "strict"--it's being only as strict as you need to be. Different classes start in different places, so to speak.  You have to take them from where they are to where you want them to be.  Of course, you pick your battles (this is a hugely important concept) but being prepared and ready for class on time is a no-brainer, as it should be for you or I as teacher as well.

is it really necessary to leave a note saying "when finish your class, please turn off computer!!" when once - in 10 months - this situation has happened?  it wasn't even my fault - it must have done some system updates after i pressed "off" then restarted.

Jesus that sort of thing really gets on my nerves.

Recent example...I can't ever remember being late for a class, it's just not me.  The other day I was at my desk when the bell rang and presumably because I wasn't getting up the nano second I heard the bell, my CT said "You've got a class now??".  If I had shown a pattern of lateness then yeah give me a nudge but holy sh*t.

But when my CT and all the other teachers in my office are still chatting and doing nothing and then meander slowly to their classes five to ten minutes late, that's fine.

At my school, the HR teacher is more or less required to lead their classes to their specials.  I make classes line up outside in order to calm everyone down, remind them to put out their books, nametag, pencilcase, etc, and then I greet them sort of individually as they enter the classroom. (This is something you will definitely benefit from if you don't do it already! It marks a space between whatever else in the world, and English class time.)

If a class is not ready outside when the bell rings, I always point out--not directly looking at the HR teacher, but kind of, looking at my watch (well, where my watch would be since I don't wear one anymore, but they understand)--"Oh, you guys are late today! I am sure we can be better prepared for English class next time." So, there's no actual face being lost, but they pick it up pretty well.

I also have my Co-T point out to HR teachers the math involved very early on in the year:  Let's say a class meets three times a week.  You're late by a mere three minutes each time.  In one month, that's an entire English class your HR students have missed!  (3X3X4.3=39 min)

So, sorry, Alex--it sounds like you had to leave your desk to get to the classroom?  Yeah, you were late.  It doesn't matter if other people are later. You should be ready to teach when that bell rings! You have 40 minutes of English class, be prepared to use all 40 minutes, and insist on your 40 minutes--otherwise, what are you being paid for?

It's not about being "strict"--it's being only as strict as you need to be. Different classes start in different places, so to speak.  You have to take them from where they are to where you want them to be.  Of course, you pick your battles (this is a hugely important concept) but being prepared and ready for class on time is a no-brainer, as it should be for you or I as teacher as well.

Not so sure about your school but all my school bells ring 5 minutes before the class starts so leaving a minute or 30 seconds later does not mean you are late nor neglecting your duties to fill your 40 minutes. I am pretty sure all he was pointing out was the hypocrisy of someone questioning him on something that is way overdone by the other teachers and super rarely if not ever by him.

About the make them line up outside orderly and then do an individual greet outside the class I totally agree. It does get them used to having to line up orderly and then be ready for class. I have used that at any school where I have my own English class and I think it works great.

is it really necessary to leave a note saying "when finish your class, please turn off computer!!" when once - in 10 months - this situation has happened?  it wasn't even my fault - it must have done some system updates after i pressed "off" then restarted.

Jesus that sort of thing really gets on my nerves.

Recent example...I can't ever remember being late for a class, it's just not me.  The other day I was at my desk when the bell rang and presumably because I wasn't getting up the nano second I heard the bell, my CT said "You've got a class now??".  If I had shown a pattern of lateness then yeah give me a nudge but holy sh*t.

But when my CT and all the other teachers in my office are still chatting and doing nothing and then meander slowly to their classes five to ten minutes late, that's fine.

At my school, the HR teacher is more or less required to lead their classes to their specials.  I make classes line up outside in order to calm everyone down, remind them to put out their books, nametag, pencilcase, etc, and then I greet them sort of individually as they enter the classroom. (This is something you will definitely benefit from if you don't do it already! It marks a space between whatever else in the world, and English class time.)

If a class is not ready outside when the bell rings, I always point out--not directly looking at the HR teacher, but kind of, looking at my watch (well, where my watch would be since I don't wear one anymore, but they understand)--"Oh, you guys are late today! I am sure we can be better prepared for English class next time." So, there's no actual face being lost, but they pick it up pretty well.

I also have my Co-T point out to HR teachers the math involved very early on in the year:  Let's say a class meets three times a week.  You're late by a mere three minutes each time.  In one month, that's an entire English class your HR students have missed!  (3X3X4.3=39 min)

So, sorry, Alex--it sounds like you had to leave your desk to get to the classroom?  Yeah, you were late.  It doesn't matter if other people are later. You should be ready to teach when that bell rings! You have 40 minutes of English class, be prepared to use all 40 minutes, and insist on your 40 minutes--otherwise, what are you being paid for?

It's not about being "strict"--it's being only as strict as you need to be. Different classes start in different places, so to speak.  You have to take them from where they are to where you want them to be.  Of course, you pick your battles (this is a hugely important concept) but being prepared and ready for class on time is a no-brainer, as it should be for you or I as teacher as well.

Yeah I thought someone might pick up that.

So...I totally agree that students and teachers should be in the classroom when the bell rings so they're ready to begin.  I learned that when I was at school.  When I first came here, I'd be in the classroom ten minutes before the bell so I was ready.  I quickly realised (and I don't know if this is just my school, English classes in general or Korean culture as a whole) that nobody ever came on time; neither the students nor my CTs.

At my school the bell seems to be the thing that tells you to start heading to the class or to start thinking about heading to the class; again, teachers and students.

I have to disagree with you I'm afraid...if I'm in the classroom before my students and my CT then I'm not late.

So now I just do as everyone else does.  Wait for the bell and still arrive before everyone else.

My favorite part of winter is how everyone decides it's a good idea to leave all the doors and windows wide open in the hallways. Yes, let ALL the cold air in

My favorite part of winter is how everyone decides it's a good idea to leave all the doors and windows wide open in the hallways. Yes, let ALL the cold air in

OMG!  I was just having this conversation with my Mom no more than 15 minutes ago.    They do that crap here also.  I went around and closed them all.  It's just as bad in the Spring and Fall.  It's perfect out and the windows should be open, but they keep everything locked up tight so it's sweltering in your classroom.   

My favorite part of winter is how everyone decides it's a good idea to leave all the doors and windows wide open in the hallways. Yes, let ALL the cold air in

"But it's to clean the air."

"What's that? Couldn't hear you cause you're teeth are chattering."

Why does everyone insist on backing in their car at COSTCO.  Are they morons or what?  They come back their car and can't get the cart to the back of their car to load all the stuff. So it takes them 10 extra minutes to carry everything slowly to the back.  Meanwhile, there are no parking spaces.  Do they even think or use logic or simply follow what everyone else is doing?  Like backing in is some sort of rule.  God damn it. 

Why does everyone insist on backing in their car at COSTCO.  Are they morons or what?  They come back their car and can't get the cart to the back of their car to load all the stuff. So it takes them 10 extra minutes to carry everything slowly to the back.  Meanwhile, there are no parking spaces.  Do they even think or use logic or simply follow what everyone else is doing?  Like backing in is some sort of rule.  God damn it.

If you back in, you pull out. If you pull in, you back out. It's the same thing so I don't understand why you MUST back in, especially considering the reason you said.