Quote from: Aristocrat on October 05, 2018, 11:58:56 amI completely understand that a school concert isn't supposed to be professional, it's supposed to be innocent and fun, but that's no excuse for poor planning. We had a similar thing with our English festival this year. It had two parts. English booths in all classes, where everybody had to go around and participate in the other classes experiences. All these booths were my brain child. All really really good, and that is two years in a row we did this. Pat on the back for me for a month of hard work. Part two was in the hall with a couple of performances, a UCC winner, a golden bell about Sherlock Holmes, and then a duel with that 'Harder, Faster', Daft Punk thing that someone posted. Actually, because my school is pretty big we have teachers in charge of the audio stuff at school. So all the students come in the hall after the booths. The UCC winner is played, and my students make some really good videos with music, but there is no audio, only pictures. The audio teacher apologised for that, saying he was kind of to busy to fix it. I mean he's got one fooking job to do. Give me 5 minutes, and I'd get you audio and visual at the same time. Then the Sherlock Holmes golden bell based on the short stories. I read the book and made the questions and gave to my co-t to do the PPT. We would start with a O/X quiz and then when down to 50, do the golden bell. Golden bell with 400 students is a thing. Question 1: Sherlock Holmes lives on Butcher Street. A load of students went over to 'O'. Great! But what they then realised, before the rope went down, was that my co-t had written (Baker Street) in brackets on the same page as the statement. So all the students went over to 'X' instead. Head shaking stuff. I can look back and laugh but at the time, it was head shaking time for me.
I completely understand that a school concert isn't supposed to be professional, it's supposed to be innocent and fun, but that's no excuse for poor planning.
Quote from: Dave Stepz on October 05, 2018, 12:44:50 pmQuote from: Aristocrat on October 05, 2018, 11:58:56 amI completely understand that a school concert isn't supposed to be professional, it's supposed to be innocent and fun, but that's no excuse for poor planning. We had a similar thing with our English festival this year. It had two parts. English booths in all classes, where everybody had to go around and participate in the other classes experiences. All these booths were my brain child. All really really good, and that is two years in a row we did this. Pat on the back for me for a month of hard work. Part two was in the hall with a couple of performances, a UCC winner, a golden bell about Sherlock Holmes, and then a duel with that 'Harder, Faster', Daft Punk thing that someone posted. Actually, because my school is pretty big we have teachers in charge of the audio stuff at school. So all the students come in the hall after the booths. The UCC winner is played, and my students make some really good videos with music, but there is no audio, only pictures. The audio teacher apologised for that, saying he was kind of to busy to fix it. I mean he's got one fooking job to do. Give me 5 minutes, and I'd get you audio and visual at the same time. Then the Sherlock Holmes golden bell based on the short stories. I read the book and made the questions and gave to my co-t to do the PPT. We would start with a O/X quiz and then when down to 50, do the golden bell. Golden bell with 400 students is a thing. Question 1: Sherlock Holmes lives on Butcher Street. A load of students went over to 'O'. Great! But what they then realised, before the rope went down, was that my co-t had written (Baker Street) in brackets on the same page as the statement. So all the students went over to 'X' instead. Head shaking stuff. I can look back and laugh but at the time, it was head shaking time for me. Seriously, why is it like this??? It can't be a coincidence, most speech contests, talent shows or any big events requiring planning I've experienced over the years are littered with these kinds of screw ups. These are adults who survived Korean highschool, went through the 수능 exams, got into university and passed the teacher's exams... Pressure and stress should be their bitch be now.
Seriously, why is it like this??? It can't be a coincidence, most speech contests, talent shows or any big events requiring planning I've experienced over the years are littered with these kinds of screw ups. These are adults who survived Korean highschool, went through the 수능 exams, got into university and passed the teacher's exams... Pressure and stress should be their bitch be now.
Quote from: Aristocrat on October 05, 2018, 07:21:26 pmQuote from: Dave Stepz on October 05, 2018, 12:44:50 pmQuote from: Aristocrat on October 05, 2018, 11:58:56 amI completely understand that a school concert isn't supposed to be professional, it's supposed to be innocent and fun, but that's no excuse for poor planning. We had a similar thing with our English festival this year. It had two parts. English booths in all classes, where everybody had to go around and participate in the other classes experiences. All these booths were my brain child. All really really good, and that is two years in a row we did this. Pat on the back for me for a month of hard work. Part two was in the hall with a couple of performances, a UCC winner, a golden bell about Sherlock Holmes, and then a duel with that 'Harder, Faster', Daft Punk thing that someone posted. Actually, because my school is pretty big we have teachers in charge of the audio stuff at school. So all the students come in the hall after the booths. The UCC winner is played, and my students make some really good videos with music, but there is no audio, only pictures. The audio teacher apologised for that, saying he was kind of to busy to fix it. I mean he's got one fooking job to do. Give me 5 minutes, and I'd get you audio and visual at the same time. Then the Sherlock Holmes golden bell based on the short stories. I read the book and made the questions and gave to my co-t to do the PPT. We would start with a O/X quiz and then when down to 50, do the golden bell. Golden bell with 400 students is a thing. Question 1: Sherlock Holmes lives on Butcher Street. A load of students went over to 'O'. Great! But what they then realised, before the rope went down, was that my co-t had written (Baker Street) in brackets on the same page as the statement. So all the students went over to 'X' instead. Head shaking stuff. I can look back and laugh but at the time, it was head shaking time for me. Seriously, why is it like this??? It can't be a coincidence, most speech contests, talent shows or any big events requiring planning I've experienced over the years are littered with these kinds of screw ups. These are adults who survived Korean highschool, went through the 수능 exams, got into university and passed the teacher's exams... Pressure and stress should be their bitch be now. Look at half the material that gets posted up here by NETs and you'll realize that minor errors aren't exclusive to Korean teachers.
Quote from: Chinguetti on October 08, 2018, 10:51:51 amQuote from: Aristocrat on October 05, 2018, 07:21:26 pmSeriously, why is it like this??? It can't be a coincidence, most speech contests, talent shows or any big events requiring planning I've experienced over the years are littered with these kinds of screw ups. These are adults who survived Korean highschool, went through the 수능 exams, got into university and passed the teacher's exams... Pressure and stress should be their bitch be now.Watching my middle school kids and the way they work, they don't really teach organizational or time management skills here. They're expected to figure this out for themselves as they go through life, and project-based group work (which is where a lot of project planning and skills are learned) isn't something they regularly engage in, either. Most of the group work my kids experience are in my own classes, and many of my students are so resistant to group work that I have to seriously micromanage to make sure everyone is pulling his/her own weight. I can walk them through a lot of the "bigger" projects, but I almost literally have to hold their hands every step of the way. If they receive an assignment where they can work alone, and the project is relatively small, they're very good about focusing on the task and getting the work done. When they're given parts they've got to complete as part of a larger project, though, many of them dig in their heels because it's not what they're familiar with, and they don't understand the point behind it. And when working as part of group, part of the problem is they all want to shine individually, not as a group, and no one wants the extra responsibility of keeping their own members in line and on task (and making sure everyone is on schedule). My point is, they don't learn the skills or see the point of group or large, project-based work during their primary and secondary school years. It's not a focus here, and it carries on into their adulthood, which is where they're expected to figure it out on their own from scratch (in theory, with someone's guidance, but we know how often that happens). Some of them manage to figure things out, but many of them struggle and continue to struggle with it, not just because they never developed the skills and concepts behind them while younger, but also because most no one else has, either. So they're working raw at all angles with people who may or may not be too helpful or cooperative (especially when those people feel like they won't get any credit for their parts in it, which, sad to say, is common here), and it's often discouraged to ask for help.Waygook.org user Chinguetti, nuanced and thoughtful discussion of topics doesn't belong on these forums.All jokes aside, this is true. And also, another (less nuanced) observation for why things get completely bungled, is because some people literally just don't care enough to do a good job. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone who makes a mess of something they were supposed to plan. But in some cases, it really is just that the person couldn't be bothered to put the effort in bring the quality up. It's the attitude of 'Well, nobody's going to notice or care, so, why bother?' and to some extent, that really is true. Especially when it comes to English classes or events.
Quote from: Aristocrat on October 05, 2018, 07:21:26 pmSeriously, why is it like this??? It can't be a coincidence, most speech contests, talent shows or any big events requiring planning I've experienced over the years are littered with these kinds of screw ups. These are adults who survived Korean highschool, went through the 수능 exams, got into university and passed the teacher's exams... Pressure and stress should be their bitch be now.Watching my middle school kids and the way they work, they don't really teach organizational or time management skills here. They're expected to figure this out for themselves as they go through life, and project-based group work (which is where a lot of project planning and skills are learned) isn't something they regularly engage in, either. Most of the group work my kids experience are in my own classes, and many of my students are so resistant to group work that I have to seriously micromanage to make sure everyone is pulling his/her own weight. I can walk them through a lot of the "bigger" projects, but I almost literally have to hold their hands every step of the way. If they receive an assignment where they can work alone, and the project is relatively small, they're very good about focusing on the task and getting the work done. When they're given parts they've got to complete as part of a larger project, though, many of them dig in their heels because it's not what they're familiar with, and they don't understand the point behind it. And when working as part of group, part of the problem is they all want to shine individually, not as a group, and no one wants the extra responsibility of keeping their own members in line and on task (and making sure everyone is on schedule). My point is, they don't learn the skills or see the point of group or large, project-based work during their primary and secondary school years. It's not a focus here, and it carries on into their adulthood, which is where they're expected to figure it out on their own from scratch (in theory, with someone's guidance, but we know how often that happens). Some of them manage to figure things out, but many of them struggle and continue to struggle with it, not just because they never developed the skills and concepts behind them while younger, but also because most no one else has, either. So they're working raw at all angles with people who may or may not be too helpful or cooperative (especially when those people feel like they won't get any credit for their parts in it, which, sad to say, is common here), and it's often discouraged to ask for help.
The consequences of tenure. Unions are usually a great thing, but stuff like this is why there needs to be some balance.
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 08, 2018, 12:21:43 pmThe consequences of tenure. Unions are usually a great thing, but stuff like this is why there needs to be some balance.in england there's an outside agency called OFSTED that periodically grades schools and teachers' performances. stressful and all teachers in england hate it, but it seems to work to some extent - to keep the teachers on their toes if not anything elseall performance grading in korea seems to be done half-arsed and in-house (i think?), so it seems there's no real incentive to do a good job
Quote from: oglop on October 08, 2018, 01:03:57 pmQuote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 08, 2018, 12:21:43 pmThe consequences of tenure. Unions are usually a great thing, but stuff like this is why there needs to be some balance.in england there's an outside agency called OFSTED that periodically grades schools and teachers' performances. stressful and all teachers in england hate it, but it seems to work to some extent - to keep the teachers on their toes if not anything elseall performance grading in korea seems to be done half-arsed and in-house (i think?), so it seems there's no real incentive to do a good jobI've never seen so many rubber stamps and farces than over here. I'll never forget my CT's, from 2yrs ago, open class. She'd just come back from teacher training in NZ and present in class to see what she'd learned were: the principal, vp, head teacher, about 14 teachers from different schools around the city, officials from the MOE and officials from the POE. The lesson couldn't have bombed more epically than if she made a conscious effort to do so, students were throwing stationary around the class, it took 20min to explain the game which every student ignored the rules for (she would've taken longer, but the bell actually cut her off mid explanation), when reviewing (after the bell rang), not one student could remember a single key expression.End of the lesson, she got loud applause!The entire Epik programme, massive farce. Our renewal interviews, complete farce. Everything seems to boil down to interpersonal relationships, specifically, do your superiors like you. Your grounds for promotion, renewal or approval (or their opposites) oftentimes cannot be legally put onto paper. Usually, your boss likes you because you don't cause problems and do your job, then again, maybe your boss doesn't like you because you didn't kiss enough ass, perhaps he likes you because you downed half your weight in alcohol at the hweshik. The farce of an interview or review will reflect your underlying relationship. This entire system needs to be scrapped. Performance needs to be the sole metric.
but who would measure your performances? it seems like no korean teachers have had any proper ESL/EFL training (come to that, do many native teachers?). in the past, when i had open classes, the principal was critical of my classes, even though he had no understanding of what was happening - he didn't speak a word of english. other times, korean teachers told me i did an amazing job, when they only turned up for 2 minutes and left
nice post.it feels at korean elementary schools, teaching english is the lowest rung of the ladder, and pretty much nobody wants to do it. it's usually the new teachers (younger teachers these days, at least, can usually speak english fairly well) who have no experience teaching - let alone teaching english, or contract teachers, who know they'll only be there for a short time (some who can barely string a sentence together).either way, nobody wants to do it, and they have no real passion for it, either. there's no system about how to teach (apart from following the textbook to a T) because nobody in the school has any idea either - and the native teachers are usually largely ignored (not that i'm saying they are necessarily more knowledgeable, but i know a couple of instructors who have been at their schools for 10 or so years and are never asked for their input on textbooks, teaching tips, assessments, etc)the only constant i can find used to assess if a class if successful is, "well, the kids seem to like it"
Quote from: oglop on October 08, 2018, 01:03:57 pmQuote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 08, 2018, 12:21:43 pmThe consequences of tenure. Unions are usually a great thing, but stuff like this is why there needs to be some balance.in england there's an outside agency called OFSTED that periodically grades schools and teachers' performances. stressful and all teachers in england hate it, but it seems to work to some extent - to keep the teachers on their toes if not anything elseall performance grading in korea seems to be done half-arsed and in-house (i think?), so it seems there's no real incentive to do a good jobThis just went down in Canada:Universities are checking up on highschools.Basically, many universities are noticing that there is a huge discrepancy between the grades of students originating from certain schools and their performance in uni. There's a big brewhaha about some of the unis considering curving student grades depending on where they originate from. Basically, lazy teachers are half assing their classes, and just marking up grades to make the school look good... which is exactly what I've heard many NETs complain about here in Korea. Hopefully one day unis will hold schools accountable for the education they give their students by adjusting highschool rankings according to amount of grade inflation... it'll never happen, but hey.
The reason I think this is happening is because teachers get harassed by parents and from a teacher's perspective it's not worth it to go to battle against White Wine or Tiger Moms who have nothing better to do.
Quote from: oglop on October 08, 2018, 07:48:28 pmnice post.it feels at korean elementary schools, teaching english is the lowest rung of the ladder, and pretty much nobody wants to do it. it's usually the new teachers (younger teachers these days, at least, can usually speak english fairly well) who have no experience teaching - let alone teaching english, or contract teachers, who know they'll only be there for a short time (some who can barely string a sentence together).either way, nobody wants to do it, and they have no real passion for it, either. there's no system about how to teach (apart from following the textbook to a T) because nobody in the school has any idea either - and the native teachers are usually largely ignored (not that i'm saying they are necessarily more knowledgeable, but i know a couple of instructors who have been at their schools for 10 or so years and are never asked for their input on textbooks, teaching tips, assessments, etc)the only constant i can find used to assess if a class if successful is, "well, the kids seem to like it"I think some of it depends on whether your school is old school or not. I'm starting year 2 at my elementary schools and they been really great and do ask my opinions about stuff, such as textbooks. I'd say the biggest chunk of it is just feeling shy and embarrassed speaking in another language, especially if you aren't young and grew up with more exposure to English and Western TV shows/movies/music, etc. If you aren't very confident and have to stand beside a native speaker and use English all day.. that can feel really intimidating for adults. Kids aren't so self-conscious. It would be the same if the situation was reversed
Shy and embarrassed is perfectly acceptable if you're a cashier at Lotte Mart. When you're a Korean school teacher, you studied at university/college and part of that training DOES include teaching English, particularly for elementary school teachers, you're trained to teach in every subject. Taking out the 9yrs of English education at public school, as well as your university education, it IS indeed your job to be able to teach English, this includes being able to communicate in the language, to a reasonable degree. Dismissing all of this even, nothing is stopping a Korean teacher from improving their English after becoming a teacher, particularly if they find their skill is lacking. No, the standard MO is to run away and avoid any situation where they'd have to speak/use English (their job) for the next 20-30yrs.When you're paid money to do a job, shy and embarrassed is no excuse for being incompetent. If the situation were reversed, you're teaching a foreign language in a western school and it's discovered you barely speak the language, you'd be fired ASAP.