RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

Speaking tests are the worst.

The frustration and boredom I go through kills me a little every semester.

There aren't  many things that really drive the disappointment home for me like speaking tests do.

  What's this? (picture of an apple)

  (Gr 4 Student) 뭐?

     This was the only real point of contention between myself and my old school: the fact that students couldn't fail the speaking exams no matter how hard they tried (and some of them tried so hard that I almost wanted to bump their scores for the effort they put into failing (or rather, not failing...)). After a year of my complaints, the head teacher and I finally had a good sit down and came to a compromise: I couldn't give students a big shiny 0%, but I could go as low as a 40 rather than the 60 that was the minimum previously.

    Now, a few years later and a few years wiser (it works like that, right? Wisdom increases linearly with age?) I'm more aware of why the school fought so hard against my constant whinging suggestions:

A) in middle school, a 60% *is* considered a fail. Grade inflation has basically turned any grade other than a high B or an A into crap. Getting into a good highschool with Cs on your report is gonna be pretty tough: basically, you need to be a president's kid...

B)Giving poor grades reflects poorly on teachers and the school, which can jeopardize a teacher's career advancement track, as well as funding for the school. Good grades obviously means good students, right?

So I recently just found out that one of the lowest level and biggest problem students in my school is actually from a fairly affluent and wealthy family.

He's still in middle school but he's supposed to be in high school (that's right, it IS possible to get held back a grade in Korea, but you've really got to make the effort, and this boy has apparently excelled).

His scores are literally at the bottom for every class, and he honestly and truly is as ignorant as he behaves, despite his family's background. He's actually very uneducated, almost as if he'd been kept locked up in a basement somewhere, but he's not stupid, and he doesn't have a learning disability of any kind. He doesn't have any of those disadvantages. He just refuses to learn anything, like, at all.

He honestly and truly doesn't fit the profile that most students with his kind of behavioral and academic problems have. I'd like to know what his story is.

So I recently just found out that one of the lowest level and biggest problem students in my school is actually from a fairly affluent and wealthy family.

He's still in middle school but he's supposed to be in high school (that's right, it IS possible to get held back a grade in Korea, but you've really got to make the effort, and this boy has apparently excelled).

His scores are literally at the bottom for every class, and he honestly and truly is as ignorant as he behaves, despite his family's background. He's actually very uneducated, almost as if he'd been kept locked up in a basement somewhere, but he's not stupid, and he doesn't have a learning disability of any kind. He doesn't have any of those disadvantages. He just refuses to learn anything, like, at all.

He honestly and truly doesn't fit the profile that most students with his kind of behavioral and academic problems have. I'd like to know what his story is.

Going by what you said, I'm guessing he's employing a defense mechanism.

He's able to save more face by refusing to do work than to admit or demonstrate that he's unable to do it.
He might very well have a mental problem or, his self-esteem might be in the mariana trench, thus making him believe that he's incapable of doing anything, so it's easier to refuse than to admit incompetence. 

The whole, grade 1s don't have to take exams this semester thing.
My grade 1s at my main middle school, are by far my favourite class but, they have slowly been getting a lot worse this semester because they know they don't have to take exams. >.<

Regarding my student, he definitely doesn't have a learning disability. I've found him to actually be quite intelligent, and, if you can manipulate him just right, he catches on to things just fine.

I'm pretty sure his problems can be traced back to his family. He's probably one of if not the youngest member of his family who ended up developing a rebellious streak early on, but instead of dealing with it his family probably chose to ignore both him and it, and at most they just try to hide him away where he can "stay out of trouble." He's definitely spoiled, tries to talk down to everyone, including the teachers, and he feels entitled to everything. Might explain why he's at my school (it's not a bad school, but a kid with his background wouldn't normally be here). One of my coteachers said that his family life is normal, but I'm very doubtful of that. It's normal as far as the family wants anyone to know, but the boy's lack of anxiety over any consequences for any of his behavior indicates some kind of major dysfunction in his personal background. So, lack of interest and discipline from his parents, is my best guess.

But it is still anyone's guess.

Regarding my student, he definitely doesn't have a learning disability. I've found him to actually be quite intelligent, and, if you can manipulate him just right, he catches on to things just fine.

I'm pretty sure his problems can be traced back to his family. He's probably one of if not the youngest member of his family who ended up developing a rebellious streak early on, but instead of dealing with it his family probably chose to ignore both him and it, and at most they just try to hide him away where he can "stay out of trouble." He's definitely spoiled, tries to talk down to everyone, including the teachers, and he feels entitled to everything. Might explain why he's at my school (it's not a bad school, but a kid with his background wouldn't normally be here). One of my coteachers said that his family life is normal, but I'm very doubtful of that. It's normal as far as the family wants anyone to know, but the boy's lack of anxiety over any consequences for any of his behavior indicates some kind of major dysfunction in his personal background. So, lack of interest and discipline from his parents, is my best guess.

But it is still anyone's guess.

Sadly, I've heard of many kids who fall into this bracket and taught a few of them. Usually, they're poor and/or the parents don't give a sh*t about the kid. The parents would dump the kid on the street if they legally could. I taught a kid whose mother never spoke more than 5 or 6 words to him a day for years. She'd lock herself away and watch dramas on her phone 24/7. The father just drank and went to PC bangs... Heard this from his HR teacher who was a good friend of mine.

Like many societies and cultures around the world, in Korea, it's traditionally the eldest son whose expected to shoulder the family responsibilities and live up to expectations, the eldest son is also the one who gets the most attention. This rings particularly true for wealthy families.

In Korea, face matters more than anything. Perhaps the family has gauged that the lose in face they'd suffer, from all the attention, trying to correct his behaviour would be far more than the cost of setting him up with some tenured position of no consequence where he can rack in a fat cheque.
According to Erikson, his rebellious nature (if it is that) is perfectly normal at his age. Between the ages of 12-18, Erikson argued that teens are essentially trying to find their own identity, oftentimes this includes a rebellious phase.

On the other hand, it's worrying that, as you say, he demonstrates a lack of anxiety, remorse or empathy (I assume) for his actions. These are clear indicators of antisocial behaviour attitudes, which could lead to him becoming a Sociopath.

Webpages and news sites that have videos that autoplay at full volume.

**** off with that shit.

Webpages and news sites that have videos that autoplay at full volume.

**** off with that shit.

All my devices are set to "mute" unless I turn them up.

The facebook app still makes some noises. That one pisses me off!

Had an absolute laugh yesterday. My CT begged me to reschedule my lessons at my other school so that I could leave early and drive across town to judge the school speech contest.

After planning, practicing, running around and telling me how busy she was, my CT and the head teacher for the English department were ready to unveil the fruits of their 2 months of diligent work and meticulous planning. It was time for the English speech contest and I'm judging.

- We start with my CT, the MC, asking everyone to stand and salute the flag. Sure... but there is no flag. The entire school standing, hands on heart, awkwardly saluting the empty stage.
- First act... mics are broken.
- 10min delay, they get replaced.
(students in audience are only slightly more disciplined than a riot in a Turkish prison, this doesn't stop till the contest is over)
- First act, kid starts singing a song by Ed Sheeran, here are some of the lyrics:

"Grab on my waist and put that body on me" "And last night you were in my room
And now my bedsheets smell like you" "Me and my friends at the table doing shots"

His performance is cut short... apparently, 2 months was not enough time to make sure all the performances were appropriate.
Furthermore, my CT didn't have the sense to use a karaoke version of the song without the vocals, she used the original, meaning you couldn't hear a damn thing the kid was singing.

- Following performances follow the same formula, mics keep messing up, music is too loud, no karaoke versions of the song and can't hear anything, projector (supposed to project lyrics and background images) is doing nothing but casting a massive shadow of the students in the background by shining glaring lights into the eyes of those on stage (of those kids weren't blind at the start, they must be by now).

- For the speeches, they've all been taken from the speech book students have been using since the 90s... I had two students reciting exactly the same speech, "My Dog Fluffly"... What a coincidence.

- Final performance was the Snow White play.... AGAIN! Last year, our students actually performed this play at an inter-school competition, winning school received quite a large cash prize. We were disqualified because all the songs the students had learned were of course, the originals and contained vocals in the mix so the students were essentially lip synching; my CT was quite livid and embarrassed about this and a few of our student's parents were very upset with her. Not one to learn from her mistakes, my CT made the exact same mistake again this year, same songs, same play.

Finally, the students had all practiced to perform and act at different parts of the stage. Obviously no scholar of acoustics, my CT didn't foresee that having 2 microphones, on stands at the front of the stage, wasn't really going to do much to amplify the voices of 7 dwarves positioned right at the back of the stage trying to squeak through their lines, all competing with the sea of cacophony that is the rowdy audience, the blaring music and chorused by the school bell. Each student had to improvise and constantly run to the front of the stage, to say a line, and then back.

I have to give it to the students performing the play. Not unlike Tommy Wiseau's 'The Room', it was so bad and goofy that it was hilarious. I was all smiles at the end.

I completely understand that a school concert isn't supposed to be professional, it's supposed to be innocent and fun, but that's no excuse for poor planning.

It just goes totally over my head how my CT and the head English teacher spent 2 months cutting short lessons, asking me to fill in for her and even help her with her online English exams (she had 'no time' to study) and generally making a huge fuss, all to plan the Burj Khalifa of f*ckups.

But did the Ed Sheeran kid win? 

But did the Ed Sheeran kid win? 

He could've been singing Hakuna Matata for all I know, couldn't hear a damn thing he was singing.

I gave the highest scores to one girl, she actually wrote her own speech on the dangers of young girls dieting. Brilliant speech, excellent pronunciation and well delivered. No contest.

Had an absolute laugh yesterday. My CT begged me to reschedule my lessons at my other school so that I could leave early and drive across town to judge the school speech contest.

This is begging to be turned into a short film.

I completely understand that a school concert isn't supposed to be professional, it's supposed to be innocent and fun, but that's no excuse for poor planning.

We had a similar thing with our English festival this year.  It had two parts.  English booths in all classes, where everybody had to go around and participate in the other classes experiences.  All these booths were my brain child.  All really really good, and that is two years in a row we did this.  Pat on the back for me for a month of hard work.  Part two was in the hall with a couple of performances, a UCC winner, a golden bell about Sherlock Holmes, and then a duel with that 'Harder, Faster', Daft Punk thing that someone posted.  Actually, because my school is pretty big we have teachers in charge of the audio stuff at school. 

So all the students come in the hall after the booths.  The UCC winner is played, and my students make some really good videos with music, but there is no audio, only pictures.  The audio teacher apologised for that, saying he was kind of to busy to fix it.  I mean he's got one fooking job to do.  Give me 5 minutes, and I'd get you audio and visual at the same time.   

Then the Sherlock Holmes golden bell based on the short stories.  I read the book and made the questions and gave to my co-t to do the PPT.  We would start with a O/X quiz and then when down to 50, do the golden bell.  Golden bell with 400 students is a thing.  Question 1:  Sherlock Holmes lives on Butcher Street. A load of students went over to 'O'.  Great!  But what they then realised, before the rope went down, was that my co-t had written (Baker Street) in brackets on the same page as the statement.  So all the students went over to 'X' instead.     Head shaking stuff.  I can look back and laugh but at the time, it was head shaking time for me.

Seriously, why is it like this??? It can't be a coincidence, most speech contests, talent shows or any big events requiring planning I've experienced over the years are littered with these kinds of screw ups.

These are adults who survived Korean highschool, went through the 수능 exams, got into university and passed the teacher's exams... Pressure and stress should be their bitch be now.

I completely understand that a school concert isn't supposed to be professional, it's supposed to be innocent and fun, but that's no excuse for poor planning.

We had a similar thing with our English festival this year.  It had two parts.  English booths in all classes, where everybody had to go around and participate in the other classes experiences.  All these booths were my brain child.  All really really good, and that is two years in a row we did this.  Pat on the back for me for a month of hard work.  Part two was in the hall with a couple of performances, a UCC winner, a golden bell about Sherlock Holmes, and then a duel with that 'Harder, Faster', Daft Punk thing that someone posted.  Actually, because my school is pretty big we have teachers in charge of the audio stuff at school. 

So all the students come in the hall after the booths.  The UCC winner is played, and my students make some really good videos with music, but there is no audio, only pictures.  The audio teacher apologised for that, saying he was kind of to busy to fix it.  I mean he's got one fooking job to do.  Give me 5 minutes, and I'd get you audio and visual at the same time.   

Then the Sherlock Holmes golden bell based on the short stories.  I read the book and made the questions and gave to my co-t to do the PPT.  We would start with a O/X quiz and then when down to 50, do the golden bell.  Golden bell with 400 students is a thing.  Question 1:  Sherlock Holmes lives on Butcher Street. A load of students went over to 'O'.  Great!  But what they then realised, before the rope went down, was that my co-t had written (Baker Street) in brackets on the same page as the statement.  So all the students went over to 'X' instead.     Head shaking stuff.  I can look back and laugh but at the time, it was head shaking time for me.

Seriously, why is it like this??? It can't be a coincidence, most speech contests, talent shows or any big events requiring planning I've experienced over the years are littered with these kinds of screw ups.

These are adults who survived Korean highschool, went through the 수능 exams, got into university and passed the teacher's exams... Pressure and stress should be their bitch be now.

Look at half the material that gets posted up here by NETs and you'll realize that minor errors aren't exclusive to Korean teachers.

Seriously, why is it like this??? It can't be a coincidence, most speech contests, talent shows or any big events requiring planning I've experienced over the years are littered with these kinds of screw ups.

These are adults who survived Korean highschool, went through the 수능 exams, got into university and passed the teacher's exams... Pressure and stress should be their bitch be now.

Watching my middle school kids and the way they work, they don't really teach organizational or time management skills here. They're expected to figure this out for themselves as they go through life, and project-based group work (which is where a lot of project planning and skills are learned) isn't something they regularly engage in, either. Most of the group work my kids experience are in my own classes, and many of my students are so resistant to group work that I have to seriously micromanage to make sure everyone is pulling his/her own weight. I can walk them through a lot of the "bigger" projects, but I almost literally have to hold their hands every step of the way.

If they receive an assignment where they can work alone, and the project is relatively small, they're very good about focusing on the task and getting the work done. When they're given parts they've got to complete as part of a larger project, though, many of them dig in their heels because it's not what they're familiar with, and they don't understand the point behind it. And when working as part of group, part of the problem is they all want to shine individually, not as a group, and no one wants the extra responsibility of keeping their own members in line and on task (and making sure everyone is on schedule).

My point is, they don't learn the skills or see the point of group or large, project-based work during their primary and secondary school years. It's not a focus here, and it carries on into their adulthood, which is where they're expected to figure it out on their own from scratch (in theory, with someone's guidance, but we know how often that happens). Some of them manage to figure things out, but many of them struggle and continue to struggle with it, not just because they never developed the skills and concepts behind them while younger, but also because most no one else has, either. So they're working raw at all angles with people who may or may not be too helpful or cooperative (especially when those people feel like they won't get any credit for their parts in it, which, sad to say, is common here), and it's often discouraged to ask for help.

I completely understand that a school concert isn't supposed to be professional, it's supposed to be innocent and fun, but that's no excuse for poor planning.

We had a similar thing with our English festival this year.  It had two parts.  English booths in all classes, where everybody had to go around and participate in the other classes experiences.  All these booths were my brain child.  All really really good, and that is two years in a row we did this.  Pat on the back for me for a month of hard work.  Part two was in the hall with a couple of performances, a UCC winner, a golden bell about Sherlock Holmes, and then a duel with that 'Harder, Faster', Daft Punk thing that someone posted.  Actually, because my school is pretty big we have teachers in charge of the audio stuff at school. 

So all the students come in the hall after the booths.  The UCC winner is played, and my students make some really good videos with music, but there is no audio, only pictures.  The audio teacher apologised for that, saying he was kind of to busy to fix it.  I mean he's got one fooking job to do.  Give me 5 minutes, and I'd get you audio and visual at the same time.   

Then the Sherlock Holmes golden bell based on the short stories.  I read the book and made the questions and gave to my co-t to do the PPT.  We would start with a O/X quiz and then when down to 50, do the golden bell.  Golden bell with 400 students is a thing.  Question 1:  Sherlock Holmes lives on Butcher Street. A load of students went over to 'O'.  Great!  But what they then realised, before the rope went down, was that my co-t had written (Baker Street) in brackets on the same page as the statement.  So all the students went over to 'X' instead.     Head shaking stuff.  I can look back and laugh but at the time, it was head shaking time for me.

Seriously, why is it like this??? It can't be a coincidence, most speech contests, talent shows or any big events requiring planning I've experienced over the years are littered with these kinds of screw ups.

These are adults who survived Korean highschool, went through the 수능 exams, got into university and passed the teacher's exams... Pressure and stress should be their bitch be now.

Look at half the material that gets posted up here by NETs and you'll realize that minor errors aren't exclusive to Korean teachers.

Apples and oranges.

It's a random bomb game uploaded, for free, under anonymity. You're comparing that to a teacher screwing up a simple job, she's paid to do, in front of the entire school?

Maybe we're in different wavelengths, but I don't consider messing up the audio levels so you can't hear a thing from 60% of the participants a "minor error".

At my old elementary school, all of the male teachers (there were only 3) were absolutely terrible at their job. I mean, their classes every year - without fail - were full of unruly kids, it was dirty (old food stuck to the walls/ceiling, overflowing bins, etc) , there was no reward or punishment system in place, and the students made fun of their teachers when they weren't there. Eventually, after asking why it's like this for the male teachers, it was explained that they only care about kissing the vice and principal's arse - and spend their time trying to move up the ladder, rather than doing their jobs.

There wasn't any punishment for being a bad teacher, and this continued for the 3 years I was there. Anyway, maybe basedcowboy is right, and that they just don't care enough to do a good job, as they know nobody will call them out on it if they don't

The consequences of tenure. Unions are usually a great thing, but stuff like this is why there needs to be some balance.

Seriously, why is it like this??? It can't be a coincidence, most speech contests, talent shows or any big events requiring planning I've experienced over the years are littered with these kinds of screw ups.

These are adults who survived Korean highschool, went through the 수능 exams, got into university and passed the teacher's exams... Pressure and stress should be their bitch be now.

Watching my middle school kids and the way they work, they don't really teach organizational or time management skills here. They're expected to figure this out for themselves as they go through life, and project-based group work (which is where a lot of project planning and skills are learned) isn't something they regularly engage in, either. Most of the group work my kids experience are in my own classes, and many of my students are so resistant to group work that I have to seriously micromanage to make sure everyone is pulling his/her own weight. I can walk them through a lot of the "bigger" projects, but I almost literally have to hold their hands every step of the way.

If they receive an assignment where they can work alone, and the project is relatively small, they're very good about focusing on the task and getting the work done. When they're given parts they've got to complete as part of a larger project, though, many of them dig in their heels because it's not what they're familiar with, and they don't understand the point behind it. And when working as part of group, part of the problem is they all want to shine individually, not as a group, and no one wants the extra responsibility of keeping their own members in line and on task (and making sure everyone is on schedule).

My point is, they don't learn the skills or see the point of group or large, project-based work during their primary and secondary school years. It's not a focus here, and it carries on into their adulthood, which is where they're expected to figure it out on their own from scratch (in theory, with someone's guidance, but we know how often that happens). Some of them manage to figure things out, but many of them struggle and continue to struggle with it, not just because they never developed the skills and concepts behind them while younger, but also because most no one else has, either. So they're working raw at all angles with people who may or may not be too helpful or cooperative (especially when those people feel like they won't get any credit for their parts in it, which, sad to say, is common here), and it's often discouraged to ask for help.

Waygook.org user Chinguetti, nuanced and thoughtful discussion of topics doesn't belong on these forums.

All jokes aside, this is true. And also, another (less nuanced) observation for why things get completely bungled, is because some people literally just don't care enough to do a good job. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone who makes a mess of something they were supposed to plan. But in some cases, it really is just that the person couldn't be bothered to put the effort in bring the quality up. It's the attitude of 'Well, nobody's going to notice or care, so, why bother?' and to some extent, that really is true. Especially when it comes to English classes or events.

I agree with both points:

Chinguetti, I've seen this back home too, but only with a minority of students. Nowhere is this more prevalent than during camp. From what I've witnessed two factors are clearly visible, a lack of confidence and extremely poor leadership skills. Open giving a group project, it usually starts with the students waiting to be told what to do by someone, it's extremely rare to witness one student take charge, delegate the tasks to various students etc. For the most part, these kids are not nurtured or encouraged to develop leadership skills or express opinions, which I believe leads to confidence.

Where I'm not sure comes to adulthood. While studying for my teacher's license, one of the chapters studied were the logistics of managing and overseeing school events like plays, sports events, contests etc.
Now I'm not sure if Korean universities teach these things during teacher training, but when you're given a very generous schedule and you have past experience, you should be able to hold your own.

Cowboy, speaking to her after the contest, she too just wanted to get it over with and didn't really care... Now, here's where I have a big problem. I too don't care about the silly textbook, key expressions. Honestly, I know that what I'm teaching isn't going to help, but the difference is, when you make a living off doing something, you're a professional.
Your work has your name stamped on it and if you can point at your work and say, "Oh well, it's bad, but I don't care" you don't deserve to be called a professional, as far as I'm concerned.
If I go a bit deeper, I'm guessing this could be a cultural difference. Looking at Korea's rigid corporate structure, it's not  the work that's going to get you promoted, it's your seniority and relationship with those above you. Work does matter, but it's more the volume, not the quality you've done that seems to matter.