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  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1849

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8860 on: September 29, 2018, 09:56:33 am »
i am so burnt out teaching kids i keep asking myself how i managed it for so long. how did i manage it for so long? every single day i come and teach in my after school program, there are at least 3 times a day that i'm tempted just to quit on the spot

Oh boy I feel you. I had to quit after school after my last contract. It's a joke. The hours look good, but the behavior is terrible and the classes are too long to teach the crappy books they give you.

The books are basically meant to make money for the company. 4 pages of fluff that you could teach in less than 20 minutes, yet the class is 50-55 minutes long. Go through the books in a month or two so the parents have to order more. For your sanity, please try to find something else.
I'm really not trying to pick on you, but here are two consecutive posts that are just poorly thought out.

1) OF COURSE the books are meant to make money for the company.  FFS. Whether it's YMB or Houghton-Mifflin, there is a profit motive.

2) Have you taught anywhere else? Are you a teacher?  If that's a yes, then I'm sure you know that textbooks (speaking from 30+ years of experience) provide the framework, the key ideas.

3) You are meant to be a teacher.  During class, you use the textbook to provide the framework, then you hang activities, materials, interactions and more activities on that framework to "flesh it out" so to speak.  This is what teachers (well, decent teachers) do.

4) When I was in 7th grade, a social studies "teacher" named Mr Goodwin sat at his desk, generally leaning back on the chalkboard, and had students read sentence after sentence going up and down each row until the end of the section.  Then we pulled out our notebooks and wrote our answers to the 3 or 4 questions in the book.  Is this what you are advocating?

5) I remember one time, Mr Goodwin, what with there being time left, utilized the teacher's handbook (I guess) and had us use our seventh grade thoughts to answer a discussion question, to wit: "Who should have controlled the American colonies, the French or the English?"

I think we thought that was daring, because the tendency for us (WASPish kids with a few A-A kids thrown in) would be to say, "The English."  But after two or three answers either way, going up and down the rows, some kid said, "The colonists!"  Wow! After that, everyone (including me) said, "The colonists!"

Until someone, not sure who, almost at the end of the last row, said: "The Indians!"  (I mean, really it should have been "Native Americans!" but literally no one in my ken had ever heard that term.)  There was this huge groan, as we all knew that was the best answer.

This was not even in the textbook, which I happen to remember was the brand spanking newest one--the only brand new one--that the seventh grade got that year. Outside the box (before we knew there was a box to be outside of)!

6) I know it seems like I've veered off track, but this is what you get when you rely too much on the textbook.  I suspect Mr Goodwin was the worst teacher I ever had (literally a grease stain where he leaned his head back on the chalk board behind his desk).  My point is that textbooks provide a framework and teachers can be like Goodwin or they can create materials and activities every day that make kids say, "The Indians!"

7) Teaching English in Korea isn't always that, I agree.  But "crappy books" is no excuse for giving students a crappy classroom experience. It may be a crappy book, but I bet it has vocabulary and key expressions, right? Think up, borrow, download ... I taught AS and I know materials are available, and templates, too. Interesting gif files, challenging games, and silly songs, for that matter.

8 ) But here's my biggest, bestest tip: Don't think of yourself as teaching a book, or teaching content. Think of yourself as teaching children! You might have "taught" -ing verbs or rooms in a house a dozen times, but for these kids, this might be their one and only.  As you want them to do their best, they deserve for you to do your best.
hmm. have you ever worked in an after school company before?

the problem with after schools is that it's impossible to actually teach. you try and teach english to the kids, the kids complain it's too hard (it's not, they didn't even try), they go home and complain to the parents, the parents phone to company and complain about their "terrible" teacher, and i get in trouble

i actually tried to teach for the first 6 months, making interesting, relevant and fun lessons. several students quit, and i was to blame. i was just doing my job.

for student reports, i gave detailed reports into how the students were, and how they could improve their english. again, parents complained. why? turns out the previous teacher lied and only gave false, positive feedback. the absolute terror little minsu was given 5/5 in all categories and praised as the best student in the class. i gave him a little lower (still being way too generous) and noted how he could improve. parents complained i'm a bad teacher, as he was much nicer in the previous teacher's class. he quit. my fault

for tests, i'd review the material a few classes before. students did okay on the tests, but not perfect. parents complained. why? well, the previous teacher had given all students the answers and therefore they got 100% on the test. i was blamed as being a bad teacher as the students didn't get higher than before. some students quit. my fault.

this shit went on and on for months. me trying to do a good job, and getting the blame for it.

now, i let the kids do whatever they want, and absolutely no learning happens. none. parents are happy, management is happy, and i focus on making lessons for my adult classes instead, for students who actually want to be there and learn.

as for the textbooks, they are always simply much too difficult for the students. much too difficult. companies want to speed through the books, so parents have to spend more money, and the levels increase much too quickly. i have some classes where students can't even read the word "pencil" but are expected to read and comprehend long, flowing articles with advanced grammar and difficult words such as "discrimination" or "exceptionally". it's pointless. what am i to do? create separate lessons away from the impossible textbooks that would benefit and help and students? well, as i mentioned above, i spent a lot of time and effort trying all that for 6 months, and simply got blamed for being a bad teacher. christ, the students complain even when playing games - they just want to sit around and play on their phones. it's impossible, and the worst job i've had in 7 years of teaching.

the whole thing is a money-making scheme from the company's perspective, and a baby-sitting service from the parents' perspective. and so now that's what i do - babysit for 50 minutes, and pass the time as smoothly as possible.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8861 on: September 29, 2018, 12:09:18 pm »
as for the textbooks, they are always simply much too difficult for the students. much too difficult. companies want to speed through the books, so parents have to spend more money, and the levels increase much too quickly. i have some classes where students can't even read the word "pencil" but are expected to read and comprehend long, flowing articles with advanced grammar and difficult words such as "discrimination" or "exceptionally". it's pointless.

The funny thing is, when people make very reasonable points like this to accusations of "you're not a good enough teacher", I very rarely see a rebuttal. 

Maybe Mr. C or even eggieguffer ("Have you tried asking them concept checking questions?") can offer a response.


  • Mr C
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1617

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8862 on: September 29, 2018, 05:36:23 pm »
as for the textbooks, they are always simply much too difficult for the students. much too difficult. companies want to speed through the books, so parents have to spend more money, and the levels increase much too quickly. i have some classes where students can't even read the word "pencil" but are expected to read and comprehend long, flowing articles with advanced grammar and difficult words such as "discrimination" or "exceptionally". it's pointless.

The funny thing is, when people make very reasonable points like this to accusations of "you're not a good enough teacher", I very rarely see a rebuttal. 

Maybe Mr. C or even eggieguffer ("Have you tried asking them concept checking questions?") can offer a response.
I don't concede that asking "Have you taught anywhere else?" is similar to "you're not a good enough teacher."  Nor did oglop (who has always struck me as reasonable) write previously about the books being "much too difficult" (at least that I read).

In fact, the OP (TheEnergizer) described the books as being  "4 pages of fluff that you could teach in less than 20 minutes", which is the situation I was responding to.

Truthfully, my experience with textbooks here (both classroom and AS) is that they fit TE's description more than oglop's.  However, if the AS students are the very weakest ones, then I can see that even "fluff" books could be too difficult. 

But it doesn't change my strategy too much, as I still see the textbook being the framework on which a teacher hangs their classroom implementation. In this case, I would focus first on phonics, and not do the kind of supplementary vocab and cases I usually do with "better" students, and practice the key structures.  But it's still a mix of rote, challenge and "fun" activities.

I taught in HS here for four years, and the textbooks did consist of 'long, flowing articles with advanced grammar and difficult words such as "discrimination" or "exceptionally"' but all the elementary books I'm familiar with (the newly released 5-6 grade books are my third iteration) have limited vocab and relatively simple grammar.  I would be interested to see these AS texts ...

Incidentally, it seems oglop has already found his own solution to the problems he encountered.

Finally, some waygug-in snarked: "Fleshing it out usually means giving a word search using vocabulary from the lesson, perhaps a crossword and some ill-conceived notion of a game." I can only assume he's referring to his own approach; I don't think it fairly describes mine.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 05:45:58 pm by Mr C »


  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1849

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8863 on: September 29, 2018, 08:52:40 pm »
Yes, this is the first time I've experienced this amount of disarray in an AS program. Usually they aren't this bad. The school I'm placed in AND the company are both just completely toxic. The textbooks I have are fom JLS, by the way. Pretty awful and full of basic errors. I can only imagine AS programs getting worse in the future, probably due to lack of grade 1 and 2 students (the biggest income earners). The company I'm with  won't even provide me with paper or board markers anymore. Imagine that.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8864 on: September 29, 2018, 09:31:12 pm »
Quote
Maybe Mr. C or even eggieguffer ("Have you tried asking them concept checking questions?") can offer a response.

I advised him to take the job at the BC. As far as I'm aware they're one of the few places that allow YL teachers to teach communicatively and offer support if the parents complain.


  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1849

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8865 on: September 29, 2018, 11:09:02 pm »
Quote
Maybe Mr. C or even eggieguffer ("Have you tried asking them concept checking questions?") can offer a response.

I advised him to take the job at the BC. As far as I'm aware they're one of the few places that allow YL teachers to teach communicatively and offer support if the parents complain.
yeah. i got offered a BC young learners position but ultimately decided i didn't want to teach kids anymore and turned it down, and was later offered a BC adult centre position, which i turned down for a few different reasons. however, i imagine both jobs would be really good and rewarding (as you said!). i'll probably apply again to the adult BC centre again (and actually take the job if they offer it to me) later on down the line, but yeah, as i said, there were a few reasons why i decided not to take it :)


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1547

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8866 on: October 01, 2018, 08:41:57 am »
This morning, my neighbour decides to start vacuuming, at 5AM. Driving to work, I get held up in a gridlock as nobodies patient enough to leave a gap and take turns at the entrance/exit of a supermarket and the intersection into the main road, everyone's trying to force their way in at the same time.
Opening the window to let in the morning breeze and for 40 minutes, I've had to endure the filling dislodging noise of the principal screaming into a microphone.

Land of the morning calm my ass.


  • Savant
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1896

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8867 on: October 01, 2018, 08:52:58 am »
Quote
Maybe Mr. C or even eggieguffer ("Have you tried asking them concept checking questions?") can offer a response.

I advised him to take the job at the BC. As far as I'm aware they're one of the few places that allow YL teachers to teach communicatively and offer support if the parents complain.
yeah. i got offered a BC young learners position but ultimately decided i didn't want to teach kids anymore and turned it down, and was later offered a BC adult centre position, which i turned down for a few different reasons. however, i imagine both jobs would be really good and rewarding (as you said!). i'll probably apply again to the adult BC centre again (and actually take the job if they offer it to me) later on down the line, but yeah, as i said, there were a few reasons why i decided not to take it :)

A downside I see for BC work is that they are open 6 days a week which means Saturday work is possible.


  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1849

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8868 on: October 01, 2018, 09:16:57 am »
Quote
Maybe Mr. C or even eggieguffer ("Have you tried asking them concept checking questions?") can offer a response.

I advised him to take the job at the BC. As far as I'm aware they're one of the few places that allow YL teachers to teach communicatively and offer support if the parents complain.
yeah. i got offered a BC young learners position but ultimately decided i didn't want to teach kids anymore and turned it down, and was later offered a BC adult centre position, which i turned down for a few different reasons. however, i imagine both jobs would be really good and rewarding (as you said!). i'll probably apply again to the adult BC centre again (and actually take the job if they offer it to me) later on down the line, but yeah, as i said, there were a few reasons why i decided not to take it :)

A downside I see for BC work is that they are open 6 days a week which means Saturday work is possible.
yes, one of the reasons i didn't take it. another is the lateish finishing times (at the adult centre). i'd never see my wife!*

*this could be seen as a possible or a negative


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8869 on: October 01, 2018, 09:18:39 am »
For the first time in forever, the air is both clean and cool enough for me to open the windows and actually enjoy it. Pollution level is low, sky is blue, the age of manure has passed, humidity and temperature are actually representative of the autumn season, there's a light breeze...

"AAADFASDGAHGHJHLJFHGHGJ!!!!"
"이 바보야~!"
"개새끼!!!!1!!!"
"YAAAAAHHHHH!!!"
"씨발!!!!!!!"
"배고파 *garbled*!!!!!!!"
*unintelligible shouting, and more shouting to be heard over that shouting*
"Sheeeeeee-paaaahLLLLLL!!!!"


That's the festival spirit, you guys.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 09:23:10 am by Chinguetti »


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8870 on: October 01, 2018, 09:36:05 am »
Quote
Maybe Mr. C or even eggieguffer ("Have you tried asking them concept checking questions?") can offer a response.

I advised him to take the job at the BC. As far as I'm aware they're one of the few places that allow YL teachers to teach communicatively and offer support if the parents complain.
yeah. i got offered a BC young learners position but ultimately decided i didn't want to teach kids anymore and turned it down, and was later offered a BC adult centre position, which i turned down for a few different reasons. however, i imagine both jobs would be really good and rewarding (as you said!). i'll probably apply again to the adult BC centre again (and actually take the job if they offer it to me) later on down the line, but yeah, as i said, there were a few reasons why i decided not to take it :)

A downside I see for BC work is that they are open 6 days a week which means Saturday work is possible.

Actually seven days a week, which means you either get a Friday Saturday or Sunday Monday weekend. For me this would be a downside as it limits the amount of IELTS you can do but I guess for younger people it'd negatively affect their social life. So, people tend to hang out with workmates on the same shift pattern. It's also tough if you have a partner who works a normal week. It is possible to work Sunday and Saturday (the heaviest days) and get a three day weekend if you prefer.


  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1849

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8871 on: October 01, 2018, 10:13:37 am »
Yeah, 6 hours of teaching on the weekends, right?


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8872 on: October 01, 2018, 10:32:43 am »
Thing is with the BC, bar the potentially crap work hours, it has good professional development, and opens doors for moving to work in other BC locations around the world.  I applied to the BC in Libya in October 2010.  Had the interview and got offered the position.  Turned it down, and then a few months later all hell broke lose in Libya.   :huh:

Yeah this is the most attractive thing and I'd say is particularly important in Korea.

The professional development coupled with a Western style management structure actually makes it a dream job for me (couldn't care less about working weekends lol).

If only they had offices in Busan  :cry:


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8873 on: October 01, 2018, 10:45:07 am »
Thing is with the BC, bar the potentially crap work hours, it has good professional development, and opens doors for moving to work in other BC locations around the world.  I applied to the BC in Libya in October 2010.  Had the interview and got offered the position.  Turned it down, and then a few months later all hell broke lose in Libya.   :huh:

That could have turned out OK. I've known this kind of thing happen to people in other BC destinations that have kicked off and they've been shipped out, given three months paid holiday and a job in another BC centre.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8874 on: October 01, 2018, 02:13:31 pm »
31st December Monday really fucks with winter vacation dates as Jan 1st Tuesday is a holiday. Coulda stole an extra 4 days if the 31st wasn't a working day.
Who is here in 2019?


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8875 on: October 02, 2018, 07:41:44 am »
I understand how and why people can be jealous of other people's success, as in wishing for that same success for themselves.

What I don't understand is how some people can be unhappy with another person's success, almost if not actually to the point of resentment, as if that person was somehow wrong for being successful.

A small example is when someone commits to a workout regimen, and the results really begin to show. Why not admire that person's accomplishment and maybe even try to find the motivation to invest in a program yourself rather than hating that person for actually self-improving?

I really don't get the level of immaturity and pettiness in some people. Like, goddamn, if you're really so insecure that you need to constantly compare yourself to others and wish failure on them just so that you can feel better about yourself, you may as well start sucking at your own asshole for all the shit you need to justify being such a miserable person.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 08:13:37 am by Chinguetti »


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8876 on: October 02, 2018, 08:27:09 am »
I've never really worked out when people develop that kind of trait.  I suppose when we were at school, there were friends and other school kids who had things that we wish we had, or they did something that secretly we wish we'd done, like win a prize or get a good score.  Thing is, most people grow out of those things and then it's not really an issue any more.  They can happily go through college and university and you've matured and these things aren't important anymore.  But I suppose there are those people where everything is case of getting one over on others, no matter how that is.  They are constantly comparing to others and to them that is the most important thing.  It seems so tiring and such a pointless waste of time, because there are always going to be those who seem to be more 'successful' than you.  Whether it's partly genetic or bred into you from your parents is another way of looking at it. 

I don't think modern day SNS really helps.  You check Instagram or Facebook and the photos are of grinning wonderfulness of your 'friends' or those you follow.  I doubt you'd be jealous of your real friend's success.  It can't help those with those kind of issues of your hundreds of 'friends' that they constantly see others through this 'snapshot' of someone's life.  It shows you what they want you to see.  It always looks like someone is doing better/is more successful than you.  For those that didn't mature properly, this is going to tweek some nerves.
 Problem is that people bring this online problem into their real life day-to-day relationships.

This is very much a developmental issue. It begins young, either being caused by family/environment, or because the most influential people in that person's life ignored/enabled it and failed to address it before the trait got cemented as part of that person's personality.

It's just so incredibly self-destructive to achieve a sense of self-worth and validation off of the failure of others, and just plain evil to feel good about others feeling shit about themselves, especially when they've never done anything to you.

I will never understand that mindset.


  • OnNut81
  • Expert Waygook

    • 723

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8877 on: October 02, 2018, 08:28:23 am »
When I was a teen I had a close friend and we were young insecure guys who would mock each other in front of others in the hopes of making ourselves look better in the process.  Fairly typical behaviour.  As we grew older and people changed he maintained the same insecurities.  It made it more and more difficult to hang out with him as we got into our twenties and eventually he just became someone I avoided.  Great guy on his own, but his low self esteem pretty much destroyed the friendship.  He was the type of person that if I were to meet up with him today he would be great company one on one.  The minute others showed I know he'd find a way to bring up my grey hair or something else that he thought would elevate him by comparison. 


Chinguetti: I think you're talking about envy more than jealousy; just to split hairs.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8878 on: October 02, 2018, 08:47:55 am »
When I was a teen I had a close friend and we were young insecure guys who would mock each other in front of others in the hopes of making ourselves look better in the process.  Fairly typical behaviour.  As we grew older and people changed he maintained the same insecurities.  It made it more and more difficult to hang out with him as we got into our twenties and eventually he just became someone I avoided.  Great guy on his own, but his low self esteem pretty much destroyed the friendship.  He was the type of person that if I were to meet up with him today he would be great company one on one.  The minute others showed I know he'd find a way to bring up my grey hair or something else that he thought would elevate him by comparison.

I'm afraid I'm quite a bit more judgmental and wary of people who have that kind of attitude. There's a lot going on behind wanting to break another person down just to build yourself up, and while insecurity serves as a foundation for all of that bullshit, there's a lot built on top of that foundation that makes it a lot more complicated, especially once they enter adulthood. You can see this behind why some people "grow out of it" vs. people who just don't. Basically, him bringing up your grey hair wouldn't be the only thing you'd have to worry about if you continued to have this guy in your life to any significant degree. He wouldn't be someone I could trust. Like, at all.

Quote
Chinguetti: I think you're talking about envy more than jealousy; just to split hairs.

You're right.


  • Datasapien
  • Super Waygook

    • 390

    • February 04, 2012, 09:36:25 pm
    • Chungcheongbuk-do
    more
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #8879 on: October 02, 2018, 08:54:38 am »
When I was a teen I had a close friend and we were young insecure guys who would mock each other in front of others in the hopes of making ourselves look better in the process.  Fairly typical behaviour.  As we grew older and people changed he maintained the same insecurities.  It made it more and more difficult to hang out with him as we got into our twenties and eventually he just became someone I avoided.  Great guy on his own, but his low self esteem pretty much destroyed the friendship.  He was the type of person that if I were to meet up with him today he would be great company one on one.  The minute others showed I know he'd find a way to bring up my grey hair or something else that he thought would elevate him by comparison. 


Chinguetti: I think you're talking about envy more than jealousy; just to split hairs.

Isn't that the exact kind of thing you just said you avoided your friend for doing?  :laugh:
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.