RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

Yea, pretty sure that's about insurance and liability issues. 

i have heard this, but i do not understand it

if i get hit by a truck, i could potentially sue the school because it happened in 'school time'? is that it?

Not sure about lawsuit, but the school WOULD be at least partially if not fully responsible for your medical expenses if you get hurt during school time, and they could potentially get in trouble with the education office if someone there who cares finds out about the NET leaving the campus during school hours.

At least that's how it was explained to me. Many schools will still trust NETs to take care of themselves on short stints off campus, but a lot of schools also feel the pressure to follow protocol and stick closely to the book.

Yea, pretty sure that's about insurance and liability issues. 

i have heard this, but i do not understand it

if i get hit by a truck, i could potentially sue the school because it happened in 'school time'? is that it?

Not sure about lawsuit, but the school WOULD be at least partially if not fully responsible for your medical expenses if you get hurt during school time, and they could potentially get in trouble with the education office if somehow there who cares finds out about the NET leaving the campus during school hours.

At least that's how it was explained to me. Many schools will still trust NETs to take care of themselves on short stints off campus, but a lot of schools also feel the pressure to follow protocol and stick closely to the book.

See that's weird. I was told that if anything that happens to me/students/any injuries that happen in my classroom are on me. If a student for some reason decided to stab themselves in my classroom with scissors, I'm liable for it. If I were to slip and fall or trip over a backpack and break my leg, it's my classroom and therefore my liability.

i got told off for getting an iced coffee once when i worked at public school

teacher: where did you go?
me: to get a coffee
teacher: you should not leave the school without asking first. what if something happened to you?
me: i'm 28

Ugghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I hate that. I moved out at 18 and payed for my own uni. I moved to two different cities in Ontario (after uni) and started over both times. I managed to COME TO AN ASIAN COUNTRY TO LIVE AND WORK BY MYSELF. Granted, when we arrive here we have an apartment set up, but things like this drive me nuts. I walked down the street 10 mins and made a left.............. to the Ediya I've been to 60 times. Yes, I'm okay. Yes, I know where it is. Yes, I can walk for 10 mins two times.

UGHHHHHHH

    I really don't want to rain on this uplifting parade of assertiveness, independence, confidence, and self-sufficiency, but I think maybe what the coworker was worried about isn't so much that you would fall over into a puddle and drown or something, but that it's against school policy to leave the work place during school hours without the permission of the admin. Althogu 28 *is* a magical number, so maybe those rules don't apply.

Yea, pretty sure that's about insurance and liability issues. 

i have heard this, but i do not understand it

if i get hit by a truck, i could potentially sue the school because it happened in 'school time'? is that it?

... or the truck owner could sue the school because you were on the clock when you damaged his truck's grill.

Without the concept of "Common Law precedents", corporations in civil law junctions tend to be more risk averse.

See that's weird. I was told that if anything that happens to me/students/any injuries that happen in my classroom are on me. If a student for some reason decided to stab themselves in my classroom with scissors, I'm liable for it. If I were to slip and fall or trip over a backpack and break my leg, it's my classroom and therefore my liability.

Yes and no. Depends on what led up to it and other conditions and circumstances. In most cases you can't and won't be held responsible for a student getting hurt in your classroom (won't stop some people from trying to toss you under the bus, though), but the school will get in trouble if it's learned that a coteacher was not present with you in the room when it happened. Big time trouble. Keep that in mind.

As for you getting hurt in your classroom, 100% on the school.

Was it your MT that told you all this?

Also sorry love but isn't this your first year?

It might seem petty to stand up for every little thing, you're supposed to pick your battles wisely and all that jazz, but any hint of being a pushover or being a little too nice and they'll sink their teeth into you before you can blink.

So you know this from one school? Doesn't mean it's true everywhere.

PennyPie, adding that "love" gives the condescension just that extra little emphasis.  Like, "How dare you come on here and tell us long timers how it is.  You know nothing!" 

He's right you know. Since I made the choice to actively put my foot down about everything, even the small stuff, the kids don't run over me nearly as much.

They did today though, running in here like a storm and shoving my bookshelves around, throwing food, screaming at the top of their lungs...

Instead of letting it go I just calmly brought up Google translate and told them how disrespectful they were being and if I was a Korean teacher they'd never think to do it. If this were a Korean classroom, they wouldn't dare. I told them I was tired of it and I wanted respect like any other teacher and if they couldn't do that then they need to leave.

They "apologized" but stuck around until I made them leave, so tomorrow they will mysteriously find the English room locked until it's time for class to start. No more lounging around after lunch, f*cking with the English teacher.

It might seem petty to stand up for every little thing, you're supposed to pick your battles wisely and all that jazz, but any hint of being a pushover or being a little too nice and they'll sink their teeth into you before you can blink.

Sorry but you're wrong and this advice may work for awhile but its not going to help in the long run. The reason your co teacher walks all over is because she's a bad person. Your school isn't great either. Your situation and StillinKoreas aren't the same.

 You're right to stand up for yourself in your situation but for most people being rude to old dinner ladies who've given you mixed bibimbap instead of unmixed is not standing up for your rights...it's being rude. Do you really agree this is something to fight for your rights over?

When there are issues with contracts absolutely fight.

When its something small, why be confrontational.

You know what the right thing to do in this situation - Go to the dinner ladies yourself and say the lunch was delicious, you've lived in Korea a long time so next time you can mix it yourself but you know it came from a nice place.

They'll be happy. You'll be happy. The school will see how lovely and polite you are. The lunch ladies wont give you unmixed bibimbap again. Everyone gets what they want.

My way of doing things works for me and ultimately people seem to like me enough to want to keep me around. Whenever I've transferred away from a school, people have been pretty upset, or at the very least concerned about whether the next person will perform as well in the classroom.

I am nice and friendly to people in general, but I will not take any kind of crap. When I do feel slighted, I'm enough of an asshole that people try very hard to avoid upsetting me again. They much prefer the nice and friendly StillInKorea to the asshole StillInKorea.

As for being rude to the lunch ladies, I didn't say anything to them other than thanks when they passed me my food. At that point I hadn't realised, and I wasn't going to go back and start a fight. The 5th grade teacher took it upon himself to inform them of the situation because he saw that I was pissed and he's a decent dude.

I have zero interest in people "seeing how lovely and polite" I am. That is not how you act in a Korean workplace. People like me enough, continue to employ me, and I get a lot less crap than the nice and polite teachers in Korea. My way works just fine.

So, genuinely curious, does intent matter?

If someone "slights" you and they didn't intend it, do you still get upset? Is is still them giving you crap and you have to stand up for yourself?

The thing is I do agree with what you're saying. Sometimes we are treated like children and it's really annoying, but the way you describe it sounds like you're being an aggressive dick to people who have the gall to do what they think is kind.

Intent seems to matter less to me than a lot of other people, as you're not the first person to ask me that kind of question. I doubt the lunch ladies were being intentionally unreasonable, but at the end of the day, giving a child's version of something to an adult and a teacher is pretty insulting. Even well-intended behaviour can have negative consequences.

Yea, pretty sure that's about insurance and liability issues. 

i have heard this, but i do not understand it

if i get hit by a truck, i could potentially sue the school because it happened in 'school time'? is that it?

Not sure about lawsuit, but the school WOULD be at least partially if not fully responsible for your medical expenses if you get hurt during school time, and they could potentially get in trouble with the education office if somehow there who cares finds out about the NET leaving the campus during school hours.

At least that's how it was explained to me. Many schools will still trust NETs to take care of themselves on short stints off campus, but a lot of schools also feel the pressure to follow protocol and stick closely to the book.

See that's weird. I was told that if anything that happens to me/students/any injuries that happen in my classroom are on me. If a student for some reason decided to stab themselves in my classroom with scissors, I'm liable for it. If I were to slip and fall or trip over a backpack and break my leg, it's my classroom and therefore my liability.

There will be a Korean teacher officially assigned to 'your' class. She is liable for anything that happens and technically she should be in the room with you. She'll no doubt be shopping on her computer, or drinking instant coffee with extremely sweet bread while gossiping about someone with another Korean teacher, but officially she's in the classroom. She'd probably try to pin the blame on you if something happened, but she is responsible.

See that's weird. I was told that if anything that happens to me/students/any injuries that happen in my classroom are on me. If a student for some reason decided to stab themselves in my classroom with scissors, I'm liable for it. If I were to slip and fall or trip over a backpack and break my leg, it's my classroom and therefore my liability.

Yes and no. Depends on what led up to it and other conditions and circumstances. In most cases you can't and won't be held responsible for a student getting hurt in your classroom (won't stop some people from trying to toss you under the bus, though), but the school will get in trouble if it's learned that a coteacher was not present with you in the room when it happened. Big time trouble. Keep that in mind.

As for you getting hurt in your classroom, 100% on the school.

Was it your MT that told you all this?

Actually no, another teacher when I was discussing issues I had in class with kids doing high jumps off my bookshelves. I was told that anything in the room is my responsibility and not the school's, even if I stepped out for a moment and something happened.

There will be a Korean teacher officially assigned to 'your' class. She is liable for anything that happens and technically she should be in the room with you. She'll no doubt be shopping on her computer, or drinking instant coffee with extremely sweet bread while gossiping about someone with another Korean teacher, but officially she's in the classroom. She'd probably try to pin the blame on you if something happened, but she is responsible.

Well if there is one, I've yet to see them anywhere near my classroom. I'm completely alone aside from students milling around after lunch or coming in to attend classes. IF there is one, they're most likely in the teacher's room or something.

Dave Stepz, I know.  I've been to her native land a few times, and when my guy friend from London and woman from Liverpool over here use mate and love a certain way, I know what the inflection means.

"Fancy a cuppa, love" versus pointing out someone's inexperience on a chat forum and adding " Also sorry love but isn't this your first year?" Come on, we know how that was intended to come across.  Not saying it was vicious or she's a bad person, but condescending in the true sense of the word? absolutely.  She meant to discredit the person's comment by alluding to their inexperience, not by contradicting their points.  Textbook.  No need to circle the wagons. 

There will be a Korean teacher officially assigned to 'your' class. She is liable for anything that happens and technically she should be in the room with you. She'll no doubt be shopping on her computer, or drinking instant coffee with extremely sweet bread while gossiping about someone with another Korean teacher, but officially she's in the classroom. She'd probably try to pin the blame on you if something happened, but she is responsible.

I think that only applies to classes that are part of the textbook curriculum,  whereas "after school" classes are different. I used to teach after school classes alone, and I grumbled about it at one of our mandatory monthly POE meetings, and the coordinator told us that schools don't actually have to provide a CoT for those classes.

If I remember correctly, Bingsu is a TALK teacher doing all or mostly after school classes. She might be SOL in the coteacher department, unless her school opts to provide her with on out of the kindness of their hearts. 

I think that only applies to classes that are part of the textbook curriculum,  whereas "after school" classes are different. I used to teach after school classes alone, and I grumbled about it at one of our mandatory monthly POE meetings, and the coordinator told us that schools don't actually have to provide a CoT for those classes.

If I remember correctly, Bingsu is a TALK teacher doing all or mostly after school classes. She might be SOL in the coteacher department, unless her school opts to provide her with on out of the kindness of their hearts. 

    Yeah, schools are not required to have Korean teachers present during after school programmes *or* camps of any sort, as they are technically extra-curricular. They are, however, required to have a Korean faculty member at the school -- they can't make you teach camps or whatever if nobody else is around!

There will be a Korean teacher officially assigned to 'your' class. She is liable for anything that happens and technically she should be in the room with you. She'll no doubt be shopping on her computer, or drinking instant coffee with extremely sweet bread while gossiping about someone with another Korean teacher, but officially she's in the classroom. She'd probably try to pin the blame on you if something happened, but she is responsible.

I think that only applies to classes that are part of the textbook curriculum,  whereas "after school" classes are different. I used to teach after school classes alone, and I grumbled about it at one of our mandatory monthly POE meetings, and the coordinator told us that schools don't actually have to provide a CoT for those classes.

If I remember correctly, Bingsu is a TALK teacher doing all or mostly after school classes. She might be SOL in the coteacher department, unless her school opts to provide her with on out of the kindness of their hearts. 

How does that play out for liability purposes, though? They can opt out, but I'm pretty sure the school could and would still be held responsible for anything that happens in the classroom, regardless of its claim, and should anything actually happen they'd still be facing a lot of scrutiny if a KT wasn't present. They might try to shimmy out of it by using some wayward logic or technicalities, but as far as I know it still falls on them because the classroom is still school property being used for school purposes, and most NETs operate under E2 visas.

Anyone know otherwise?

How does that play out for liability purposes, though? They can opt out, but I'm pretty sure the school could and would still be held responsible for anything that happens in the classroom, regardless of its claim, and should anything actually happen they'd still be facing a lot of scrutiny if a KT wasn't present. They might try to shimmy out of it by using some wayward logic or technicalities, but as far as I know it still falls on them because the classroom is still school property being used for school purposes, and most NETs operate under E2 visas.
Anyone know otherwise?

     This is a good point, and I think possibly the difference between the two isn't so much a matter of liability as it is curriculum: only Korean teachers hold valid Korean teaching licenses and are therefore required to be present when standard curriculum is being taught. Extra-curricular classes can be taught by folk who don't have those licenses. This means that during regular classes, KETs need to be in the room, but in other classes, they don't need to be.

Dave Stepz, I know.  I've been to her native land a few times, and when my guy friend from London and woman from Liverpool over here use mate and love a certain way, I know what the inflection means.

"Fancy a cuppa, love" versus pointing out someone's inexperience on a chat forum and adding " Also sorry love but isn't this your first year?" Come on, we know how that was intended to come across.  Not saying it was vicious or she's a bad person, but condescending in the true sense of the word? absolutely.  She meant to discredit the person's comment by alluding to their inexperience, not by contradicting their points.  Textbook.  No need to circle the wagons.

I do use love in a nice way too, so thanks DS ;)

but yeah OnNut in this case I was absolutely doing what you say. Dunno why you would bring it up though.

Pennypie:
Why would I bring it up?  Is that a rhetorical question?  If someone had had to have a justifiable reason for bringing things up on here this board would be the tumbleweed populated site that the café has become.  I imagine, like most, I'm on here out of sheer boredom with deskwarming.  Boredom leads to nit picking. Simple as that.  I don't guess there are many of us who are getting on here between work hours.

Pennypie:
Why would I bring it up?  Is that a rhetorical question?  If someone had had to have a justifiable reason for bringing things up on here this board would be the tumbleweed populated site that the café has become.  I imagine, like most, I'm on here out of sheer boredom with deskwarming.  Boredom leads to nit picking. Simple as that.  I don't guess there are many of us who are getting on here between work hours.

Haha very true.

Nothing to argue or nitpick. Darn!

In case anyone hasn't already realized, the Korean internet user experience is unbelievably, unfathomably, ridiculously @#%&# 

There will be a Korean teacher officially assigned to 'your' class. She is liable for anything that happens and technically she should be in the room with you. She'll no doubt be shopping on her computer, or drinking instant coffee with extremely sweet bread while gossiping about someone with another Korean teacher, but officially she's in the classroom. She'd probably try to pin the blame on you if something happened, but she is responsible.

I think that only applies to classes that are part of the textbook curriculum,  whereas "after school" classes are different. I used to teach after school classes alone, and I grumbled about it at one of our mandatory monthly POE meetings, and the coordinator told us that schools don't actually have to provide a CoT for those classes.

If I remember correctly, Bingsu is a TALK teacher doing all or mostly after school classes. She might be SOL in the coteacher department, unless her school opts to provide her with on out of the kindness of their hearts. 

How does that play out for liability purposes, though? They can opt out, but I'm pretty sure the school could and would still be held responsible for anything that happens in the classroom, regardless of its claim, and should anything actually happen they'd still be facing a lot of scrutiny if a KT wasn't present. They might try to shimmy out of it by using some wayward logic or technicalities, but as far as I know it still falls on them because the classroom is still school property being used for school purposes, and most NETs operate under E2 visas.

Anyone know otherwise?

Like everything it depends on the situation.

I just asked my co teachers.

If a student is hurt in a accidental situation, under your solo care or not. The school insurance will pay.

If a student is hurt and it can be proven in law it's because of you. Then you are responsible however the school insurance will probably still pay for the students medical care and the parents will take you to civil court.

If a student is hurt and the parents say it's because you didn't care about them, then it's your "moral responsibility" and maybe the school will be pissed but legally they should protect you.

If you're hurt on school property during the working time set out in your contract then the school will pay.

If you are out of school, without permission, and get hurt, then it will become a big thing and the school will get in trouble with the POE/MOE. As unlikely as this is, some schools just prefer to follow the rules.

In case anyone hasn't already realized, the Korean internet user experience is unbelievably, unfathomably, ridiculously @#%&# 

I don't know. The internet is fast, stable, and cheap. I can't complain.

Yup, it's fast.
But,
Internet Explorer...........

In case anyone hasn't already realized, the Korean internet user experience is unbelievably, unfathomably, ridiculously @#%&# 

I don't know. The internet is fast, stable, and cheap. I can't complain.

Yup, it's fast.
But,
Internet Explorer...........

Anyone who says the internet here is good is a ****** moron.

-Porn banned
-Gambling banned
-Anything you want to buy...ID number (government watching you/companies tracking you/advertisers data mining you)
- Internet explorer and pop ups, add ons and computer clogging programs just to buy something trivial.
- Government age censorship on youtube videos with bad words in. Come on man. (oh just fill in this form...won't accept name  )
-Netflix age verification (same as above- just ask a Korean. **** off. Shouldn't have to ask anyone to watch Breaking bad).

Yeah, it's fast and cheap but at what cost?

And don't say use a VPN. Go **** yourself.