Quote from: Ajahya on September 01, 2016, 10:11:01 amQuote from: The Arm on September 01, 2016, 10:00:49 amQuote from: MataHari on September 01, 2016, 09:09:43 amI speak 3 languages fluently and 2 on a semi decent level.... and I have never had people mock me and be awful whilst learning those languages like I have experienced with Koreans.Then you definitely shouldn't worry about not being able to speak Korean! Hats off to multilinguists Because of the structure of the Korean language and the simplistic base words, a lot of times, mispronouncing Korean vocabulary means you correctly pronounce a completely different word. It can make your whole sentence incomprehensible, or comical. It's just funny when you're trying to tell your friend their new jacket looks cool, but you accidentally say it looks delicious. Once I thought I was telling my friend "must be nice", and he told me I cursed at him. In other words, you'll probably continue to be mocked if you're learning Korean.To be honest, I can't help but chuckle too when I hear some foreigners try to speak Korean sometimes. Some very few can speak Korean with pronunciation that can sounds intelligible, but most are difficult to understand.Most of the time it's not really something to chuckle about... it's just a bit of a confusing situation. One of my friends was once asking for a lid at a Dunkin Donuts, and he repeated himself about 5 times over even trying hard to make his pronunciation even more proper. The waitress just stared at him... then I told her that he needed a lid. Suddenly a light bulb went off in her head, as you could tell from her facial expression. It's not a matter of race either I think as many would claim it is. I'm half and look mostly white. I never have a lot of the problems others claim to have. I've seen many foreigners who complain that Koreans ignore them and such and such but when I hear them speak Korean it makes complete sense as to why. My friend who asked for the lid had a good understanding of the Korean language, but his accent and pronunciation severely masked his understanding of the language and made him sound very unintelligible to natives.
Quote from: The Arm on September 01, 2016, 10:00:49 amQuote from: MataHari on September 01, 2016, 09:09:43 amI speak 3 languages fluently and 2 on a semi decent level.... and I have never had people mock me and be awful whilst learning those languages like I have experienced with Koreans.Then you definitely shouldn't worry about not being able to speak Korean! Hats off to multilinguists Because of the structure of the Korean language and the simplistic base words, a lot of times, mispronouncing Korean vocabulary means you correctly pronounce a completely different word. It can make your whole sentence incomprehensible, or comical. It's just funny when you're trying to tell your friend their new jacket looks cool, but you accidentally say it looks delicious. Once I thought I was telling my friend "must be nice", and he told me I cursed at him. In other words, you'll probably continue to be mocked if you're learning Korean.
Quote from: MataHari on September 01, 2016, 09:09:43 amI speak 3 languages fluently and 2 on a semi decent level.... and I have never had people mock me and be awful whilst learning those languages like I have experienced with Koreans.Then you definitely shouldn't worry about not being able to speak Korean! Hats off to multilinguists
I speak 3 languages fluently and 2 on a semi decent level.... and I have never had people mock me and be awful whilst learning those languages like I have experienced with Koreans.
It's not like speaking English where you can be understood regardless of accent.
Quote from: yirj17 on September 01, 2016, 10:18:29 amIf you mispronounce "28" it can end up being a curse word. Fortunately I've an older brother who studied Korean and taught me the distinction.It's actually 18
If you mispronounce "28" it can end up being a curse word. Fortunately I've an older brother who studied Korean and taught me the distinction.
Quote from: Ajahya on September 01, 2016, 11:02:29 amIt's not like speaking English where you can be understood regardless of accent.I get what you're getting at, but this isn't exactly 100% true.Find a monolingual redneck who has never had to deal with anybody with an accent, then stick your coworker in front of them and see exactly how much English can be understood. My guess would be "not so much".We're all exposed to a great variety of English, and are all to some extent good at parsing broken grammar. Many people aren't, and some of the English that we nod our heads at would confuse the crap out of them.I suspect that, all things being equal, heavily accented English might be easier to understand than an equally poor Korean... but not by much.
Quote from: jupinkorea on September 01, 2016, 10:41:24 amQuote from: yirj17 on September 01, 2016, 10:18:29 amIf you mispronounce "28" it can end up being a curse word. Fortunately I've an older brother who studied Korean and taught me the distinction.It's actually 1828?Like he gives 2 f*cks
Quote from: kyndo on September 01, 2016, 11:11:30 amQuote from: Ajahya on September 01, 2016, 11:02:29 amIt's not like speaking English where you can be understood regardless of accent.I get what you're getting at, but this isn't exactly 100% true.Find a monolingual redneck who has never had to deal with anybody with an accent, then stick your coworker in front of them and see exactly how much English can be understood. My guess would be "not so much".We're all exposed to a great variety of English, and are all to some extent good at parsing broken grammar. Many people aren't, and some of the English that we nod our heads at would confuse the crap out of them.I suspect that, all things being equal, heavily accented English might be easier to understand than an equally poor Korean... but not by much.But my point is that when you mispronounce English, you aren't accidentally saying completely different English words most of the time. And that adds an extra obstacle to things. Plus English-speakers trying to learn Korean is a relatively new thing here, so almost every Korean you come into contact with is going to be that "monolingual redneck". (I'm not trying to call all Koreans rednecks, this is just for comparison).
To be fair though, some peoples' Korean pronunciation is so cringe-worthy that I can completely understand why Korean's don't like hearing it. Someone butchering a few Korean words and and getting frustrated when someone doesn't get it is the equivalent of when old people just bust out the "hello-hello-wa-you-from? a-mae-li-ca?" because those are the few English words they bothered to learn and they think they're understandable. Koreans do tend to have a bit of a harder time understanding poor Korean than we do understanding poor English, BUT - yeah, some people, there's a reason nobody understands what you're saying. Because you're literally saying it wrong.
But my point is that when you mispronounce English, you aren't accidentally saying completely different English words most of the time. And that adds an extra obstacle to things. Plus English-speakers trying to learn Korean is a relatively new thing here, so almost every Korean you come into contact with is going to be that "monolingual redneck". (I'm not trying to call all Koreans rednecks, this is just for comparison).
Re: current conversation on learning KoreanAnyone else get the Korean StareTM? You know, when you say something in what you know is perfectly comprehensible Korean and they look at you like you just sprouted a second head and don't even respond to what you said? I feel like that's definitely been the biggest deterrent to me learning Korean in Korea. I still study vocab every day and I got a dang minor in Korean back in university, but both while studying abroad in Korea and now that I'm working here I felt that Koreans really don't want to speak to Korean language learners. Probably even worse is when you're struggling to express yourself and they don't offer any words to help. Personally, even before getting licensed to teach and coming over here, if I was talking to a non-native speaker and what they were saying was confusing, I'd ask clarifying questions or suggest words or rephrase what they were saying to make sure I understood. I never get that here. Just the blank stare. Talk about demoralizing!
The two biggest things that put me off continuing to study Korean:- Anything less than absolute accuracy with grammar, pronunciation and politeness (see CO2's story), then you might as well be speaking Swahili to a Korean person.- Koreans never, ever slow down when speaking Korean to a foreigner. It's like an alien concept to them. I can't remember who it was but someone on this site made a great point about speaking English to a Korean person; you have to constantly "ride the brake". I can't understand why Koreans don't do it for us.
Quote from: moonbrie on August 31, 2016, 02:52:14 pmRe: current conversation on learning KoreanAnyone else get the Korean StareTM? You know, when you say something in what you know is perfectly comprehensible Korean and they look at you like you just sprouted a second head and don't even respond to what you said? I feel like that's definitely been the biggest deterrent to me learning Korean in Korea. I still study vocab every day and I got a dang minor in Korean back in university, but both while studying abroad in Korea and now that I'm working here I felt that Koreans really don't want to speak to Korean language learners. Probably even worse is when you're struggling to express yourself and they don't offer any words to help. Personally, even before getting licensed to teach and coming over here, if I was talking to a non-native speaker and what they were saying was confusing, I'd ask clarifying questions or suggest words or rephrase what they were saying to make sure I understood. I never get that here. Just the blank stare. Talk about demoralizing! Quote from: The Arm on August 31, 2016, 03:53:29 pmThe two biggest things that put me off continuing to study Korean:- Anything less than absolute accuracy with grammar, pronunciation and politeness (see CO2's story), then you might as well be speaking Swahili to a Korean person.- Koreans never, ever slow down when speaking Korean to a foreigner. It's like an alien concept to them. I can't remember who it was but someone on this site made a great point about speaking English to a Korean person; you have to constantly "ride the brake". I can't understand why Koreans don't do it for us.These above quotes and a few of the other comments since capture my problems with learning Korean. I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets this. It reminds me of the time, early in my stint here, when I went to order a coffee. Young kid behind the counter, and sure, my pronunciation could not have been perfect, but I was trying.... Me: Coppi joo-say-oh. Him: Korean Stare.Me: cop-pee joo-sah-yoh?Him: Korean Stare plus tilt of head.Me: Koppee jew-say-yo?Him: Korean Stare into space now.And this continues for at least three more exchanges before it clicks: Ah, koppee! Neh.I standing in a god-damm coffee shop!!! A coffee shop you work in!! What did you think I was asking for? The crown jewels? Your mother? What?????!!!! Obviously my fault for imprecise pronunciation. No lateral thinking or putting pieces together for that boy.
Quote from: welcomebackkotter on September 01, 2016, 12:24:22 pmIt reminds me of the time, early in my stint here, when I went to order a coffee. Young kid behind the counter, and sure, my pronunciation could not have been perfect, but I was trying.... Me: Coppi joo-say-oh. Him: Korean Stare.Me: cop-pee joo-sah-yoh?Him: Korean Stare plus tilt of head.Me: Koppee jew-say-yo?Him: Korean Stare into space now.And this continues for at least three more exchanges before it clicks: Ah, koppee! Neh.I standing in a god-damm coffee shop!!! A coffee shop you work in!! What did you think I was asking for? The crown jewels? Your mother? What?????!!!! Obviously my fault for imprecise pronunciation. No lateral thinking or putting pieces together for that boy. Tbf, service workers the world over aren't known for their ability to connect the dots.
It reminds me of the time, early in my stint here, when I went to order a coffee. Young kid behind the counter, and sure, my pronunciation could not have been perfect, but I was trying.... Me: Coppi joo-say-oh. Him: Korean Stare.Me: cop-pee joo-sah-yoh?Him: Korean Stare plus tilt of head.Me: Koppee jew-say-yo?Him: Korean Stare into space now.And this continues for at least three more exchanges before it clicks: Ah, koppee! Neh.I standing in a god-damm coffee shop!!! A coffee shop you work in!! What did you think I was asking for? The crown jewels? Your mother? What?????!!!! Obviously my fault for imprecise pronunciation. No lateral thinking or putting pieces together for that boy.
The two biggest things that put me off continuing to study Korean:I can't remember who it was but someone on this site made a great point about speaking English to a Korean person; you have to constantly "ride the brake". I can't understand why Koreans don't do it for us.
Quote from: welcomebackkotter on September 01, 2016, 12:24:22 pmIt reminds me of the time, early in my stint here, when I went to order a coffee. Young kid behind the counter, and sure, my pronunciation could not have been perfect, but I was trying.... Me: Coppi joo-say-oh. Him: Korean Stare.Me: cop-pee joo-sah-yoh?Him: Korean Stare plus tilt of head.Me: Koppee jew-say-yo?Him: Korean Stare into space now.And this continues for at least three more exchanges before it clicks: Ah, koppee! Neh.I standing in a god-damm coffee shop!!! A coffee shop you work in!! What did you think I was asking for? The crown jewels? Your mother? What?????!!!! Obviously my fault for imprecise pronunciation. No lateral thinking or putting pieces together for that boy. Did you... look at the menu and see if there was an item called 'coffee'?Imagine walking into Starbucks in Canada or something, and just saying, "Coffee please." They'd probably also wait for you to specify what kind of coffee you want, or be confused.And then imagine, instead of clarifying, saying to the English speaking cashier or barista, "Cawfee plase. Cuffi plaz. Copy plase," and wondering why it's not working.It's obviously not your fault completely. Literally every expat here has had some sort of similar experience, but miscommunications are not exclusive to Korea.
I can accept foreigners won't have perfect pronunciation but if you're in a coffee shop then the Korean staffs' ears should be listening out for relevant words. You're not going to go into a coffee shop and ask for a washing machine. Just listen. I was in a restaurant once and I called the waitress over and said "물좀주세요". She looked at me like I had two heads. But think...I'm eating in a restaurant so she should already be honing in on specific words. Even if my pronunciation was terrible, she must have heard the 'm' sound and then the following vowel sound. So I either want water or radish. She just carried on staring at me, open-mouthed.Anyway, I'm flogging a dead horse I know. I'm making no real attempts to learn Korean these days so I can't exactly moan and complain
Quote from: CO2 on September 01, 2016, 11:43:04 amQuote from: jupinkorea on September 01, 2016, 10:41:24 amQuote from: yirj17 on September 01, 2016, 10:18:29 amIf you mispronounce "28" it can end up being a curse word. Fortunately I've an older brother who studied Korean and taught me the distinction.It's actually 1828?Like he gives 2 f*cks Apparently 28 is worse, but I can't remember why.
It can also be heard in 38, 78, 118, 1,818...
Quote from: The Arm on September 01, 2016, 12:51:50 pmI can accept foreigners won't have perfect pronunciation but if you're in a coffee shop then the Korean staffs' ears should be listening out for relevant words. You're not going to go into a coffee shop and ask for a washing machine. Just listen. I was in a restaurant once and I called the waitress over and said "물좀주세요". She looked at me like I had two heads. But think...I'm eating in a restaurant so she should already be honing in on specific words. Even if my pronunciation was terrible, she must have heard the 'm' sound and then the following vowel sound. So I either want water or radish. She just carried on staring at me, open-mouthed.Anyway, I'm flogging a dead horse I know. I'm making no real attempts to learn Korean these days so I can't exactly moan and complain +1