RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

http://www.allkpop.com/article/2017/04/international-fans-demand-apology-from-sbs-for-hong-hyun-hees-blackface-comedy-skit

 

Korean "gag people" have international fans?

Why is there an international blackface scandal stemming from Korean entertainers every month these days?

My guess is international fans living in Korea? Or the koreaboos living abroad?

It seems like they just don't care. I have seen a few things like this out and about in the past.

I saw this happen at a church during a Christmas talent show where one group was singing "I Will Follow Him" with the corresponding scene from the movie Sister Act playing on the screen behind them. The big gag was the conductor turning her face to the crowd, revealing her Whoopi Goldberg blackface. Sure, the average Korean just doesn't know why that might be offensive. But given the several high-profile blackface incidents recently, you'd think entertainers would know better by now. Perhaps the gag woman was as surprised as I was that she had an international following and didn't expect the skit to reach beyond Korean shores.

Given the international appeal of a lot of Korean things, like kpop and kdramas, and the amount of foreigners living here, the entertainment world should at least have an inkling of how this would be perceived. There was that politician last year who made the dark skinned comments about a foreigner and got a ton of backlash. There have been other comedy shows that have done blackface and gotten. The Thai(?) laundry commercial... I feel like the show not expecting anyone outside of Koreans to see it is a bad excuse since everyone can see things like that now.

Sure, the average Korean just doesn't know why that might be offensive.

I always wonder if Koreans would be offended if a foreign celebrity put on tan makeup and squinted their eyes and picked their nose in public and hocked loogies in an attempt to be act like a caricature of Korean stereotypes. Because it feels like they would.

Yeah, that would obviously be offensive. But what if a foreign celebrity dressed up and put on makeup to look like a particular K-pop star and performed the song acting in slightly exaggerated manners of the actual star. That's a straight spoof. That's not obviously offensive, and some people might find it funny. A lot of what makes blackface offensive is not just the content but the history associated with it. A history much of the world will be unaware of. In the talent show that I witnessed, the joke was simply OMG She's black (but she's not really black!). It's not a very funny joke, but at the same time she wasn't up there trying to portray black people as ignorant or buffoonish.

I didn't watch the comedy skit so I don't know if that was nearly so *innocent*. Probably not, since buffoonery seems to be the only joke in town when it comes to gag shows. That on top of the overt prejudice you find here against people with darker skin tones.

http://www.allkpop.com/article/2017/04/international-fans-demand-apology-from-sbs-for-hong-hyun-hees-blackface-comedy-skit

 

Korean "gag people" have international fans?

Why is there an international blackface scandal stemming from Korean entertainers every month these days?

My guess is international fans living in Korea? Or the koreaboos living abroad?

It seems like they just don't care. I have seen a few things like this out and about in the past.

I saw this happen at a church during a Christmas talent show where one group was singing "I Will Follow Him" with the corresponding scene from the movie Sister Act playing on the screen behind them. The big gag was the conductor turning her face to the crowd, revealing her Whoopi Goldberg blackface. Sure, the average Korean just doesn't know why that might be offensive. But given the several high-profile blackface incidents recently, you'd think entertainers would know better by now. Perhaps the gag woman was as surprised as I was that she had an international following and didn't expect the skit to reach beyond Korean shores.

I assure you that any adult Korean with at least 80 points of IQ is aware of what blackface means, and that it is offensive to black people.

What they don't understand, and what is surprising to them, is that anyone cares what black people think. They are particularly perplexed at the fact that a higher race like Koreans shouldn't be allowed to mock an obviously inferior race like Africans. They are also unable to fathom how people can let an inferior race like black people criticize Koreans, and don't at all understand why African people are even permitted to make public criticism, or listened to when they do.

So, yes, they don't really "understand," but not in the way one might think.

They had their own brand of umbrella a while ago (green/purple design) and it was branded as the CUmbrella.

Very unfortunate.

Please, please tell me you have pictures of this.

A guy showed it to me years ago on his phone. I wish.

They had their own brand of umbrella a while ago (green/purple design) and it was branded as the CUmbrella.

Very unfortunate.

Please, please tell me you have pictures of this.

A guy showed it to me years ago on his phone. I wish.

"Don't be surprised by the sensitized rain."

As far as cars turning off, a lot of high-end cars automatically turn off when idling at a stop. Its new tech.

I live in the arse-end of Korea. It's not new tech out here.

That's cool that cars do it automatically now though. At least as long as they manage to start up quickly afterwards. Also, I was always under the impression it took more fuel to start a car than to let it idle for some minutes. I imagine ignition tech has improved since then.

Argh! Now I'm not ranting in the ranting thread. More ranting!

Actually, if your car is going to be idle for more than around 30 seconds, then it is more fuel efficient to turn it off. That would be  inconvenient though, right?  I watched some show where they tested it, but can't remember where I saw/read it. :)

As far as cars turning off, a lot of high-end cars automatically turn off when idling at a stop. Its new tech.

I live in the arse-end of Korea. It's not new tech out here.

That's cool that cars do it automatically now though. At least as long as they manage to start up quickly afterwards. Also, I was always under the impression it took more fuel to start a car than to let it idle for some minutes. I imagine ignition tech has improved since then.

Argh! Now I'm not ranting in the ranting thread. More ranting!

Actually, if your car is going to be idle for more than around 30 seconds, then it is more fuel efficient to turn it off. That would be  inconvenient though, right?  I watched some show where they tested it, but can't remember where I saw/read it. :)

It's more fuel efficient but it's harder on the battery and the starter.

Sure, the average Korean just doesn't know why that might be offensive.

Westerners don't get it.

They got brainwashed with the logic-error that tribalism = racism.

Now they are screwed. Tribalism exists in evolutionary biology, it is real, and can never be removed. Racism is a made up concept. Labeling evolution "evil", and then trying to get rid of it with social conditioning (progressivist "logic"), is 1) stupid, because 2) it will never work, and has never worked.

Koreans are smart because they aren't yet brainwashed. 

Sure, the average Korean just doesn't know why that might be offensive.

Westerners don't get it.

They got brainwashed with the logic-error that tribalism = racism.

Now they are screwed. Tribalism exists in evolutionary biology, it is real, and can never be removed. Racism is a made up concept. Labeling evolution "evil", and then trying to get rid of it with social conditioning (progressivist "logic"), is 1) stupid, because 2) it will never work, and has never worked.

Koreans are smart because they aren't yet brainwashed. 

I agree that tribalism is hardwired into the human psyche.
I disagree that the majority of folk conflate xenophobia with racism.
Generally speaking, those that do are hillbillies who don't particularly see the problem of either.

Also, to clarify, do you consider 'blackface' to be an expression primarily of tribalism?

As far as cars turning off, a lot of high-end cars automatically turn off when idling at a stop. Its new tech.

I live in the arse-end of Korea. It's not new tech out here.

That's cool that cars do it automatically now though. At least as long as they manage to start up quickly afterwards. Also, I was always under the impression it took more fuel to start a car than to let it idle for some minutes. I imagine ignition tech has improved since then.

Argh! Now I'm not ranting in the ranting thread. More ranting!

Actually, if your car is going to be idle for more than around 30 seconds, then it is more fuel efficient to turn it off. That would be  inconvenient though, right?  I watched some show where they tested it, but can't remember where I saw/read it. :)

It's more fuel efficient but it's harder on the battery and the starter.

Right. Batteries here cost an arm and a leg too. I changed my battery and it was around 130,000 won...Fun times

I disagree that the majority of folk conflate xenophobia with racism.

Also, to clarify, do you consider 'blackface' to be an expression primarily of tribalism?

I don't see why we would make any distinction? Tribalism is a natural thing. "Xenophobia" and "racism" are human labels, of that natural thing. Koreans just seem like normal people to me, who never got brainwashed. Making fun that "that other tribe over there" is totally natural behavior. Personally I don't care.

Personally I don't care.

>Bothers to make argument
>Claims not to care

I disagree that the majority of folk conflate xenophobia with racism.
Also, to clarify, do you consider 'blackface' to be an expression primarily of tribalism?

I don't see why we would make any distinction? Tribalism is a natural thing. "Xenophobia" and "racism" are human labels, of that natural thing. Koreans just seem like normal people to me, who never got brainwashed. Making fun that "that other tribe over there" is totally natural behavior. Personally I don't care.

Tribalism is a natural thing, sure. No issues there.
Xenophobia is a wariness/fear/distrust/dislike of something different from you. It doesn't necessarily try to demonize/belittle/mock the other. Racism does.

As for it being natural behaviour... well, yeah, ok. But then, so is cannibalism, indiscriminant sex, violence, fibbing etc. Natural isn't always beneficial (to society). 

wtf is thiiiiiis

I need subtitles man. I really do. But even if the context has nothing to do with black people, why. Just why.

Personally I don't care.

>Bothers to make argument
>Claims not to care

There's nothing illogical about what I said. Westerners have been arguing about this dumb stuff for the 6yrs I've been in Korea. They are obsessed. Nothing has changed, nothing ever will change. Learn from Koreans! Just go about your business like me, who cares! 

"Tribalism" is the new buzzword that racists and nazi apologists love to throw around. Yawn yawn yawn. They think it makes them sound smart, but could people like this be any more boring? It's the same thing every time. Sexists use biology to excuse their sexism, rapists do the same - men are hardwired that way!! There's always the excuse that  because humans have done it/continue to do it, that it must be that way and that it's the best way to be. Tribalism is the achilles heel of the human race. It causes war, stunts population growth, stunts scientific/artistic/academic growth, it's destroying our planet and stopping us from reaching our full potential. These people will refuse to evolve and cling onto this crap while making the world a shitty place for everyone else.

^ Stuff progressives say, and have said, for thousands of years. And still reality doesn't work how they want! 

Different topic...

Doesn't the font on this website look too small? Every forum I visit has a larger font (and better looking emoticons, you can't even tell what these emotions mean!). A forum is about words, shouldn't the words be more readable? It just doesn't look good on my MacBook, very bad, you guys don't notice that?? Maybe 10-11pt is more industry standard? Step into 21st century?

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying. I know that no one is trying to be annoying, frustrating, or frankly scary, but they are being annoying, frustrating, and super scary. I'm glad this happens so infrequently, but sometimes, it just builds up...

A while ago, I was waiting for a bus and another foreigner started talking to me and asked me for my number because it was so hard to find other English speakers where he lives. I told him I don't give out my phone number to strangers. Then he told me if we talked more we wouldn't be strangers and asked for my Kakao ID. I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

About once a month, someone asks me if I'm Russian. It wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the issue of associating Russians with prostitutes. Last week, a taxi driver asked me if I was Russian, and I have never said I was an American faster in my life.

This weekend, I was coming back from the grocery store, both hands occupied and saw this man waiting at the corner. I figured he was waiting for someone to pick him up, since we were close to the bus terminal and he hadn't crossed yet. After I cross the street, he starts walking. Eventually, he gets in front of me and starts asking me questions in English. I'm obviously preoccupied with other things, on my way home. It was the middle of the day, so I wasn't worried about anything happening, but like... it felt like he was following me home. (I mean, he was literally following me home, but I don't know if that's what he meant to do.)

I don't think these people mean to be creepy, but they are so creepy. Part of me wants to take it as they just want to speak English. They're just curious. They just want to know they're not the only foreigner. That kind of thing, but I also want to scream.

I think it bothers me more, because trying to get on the last bus home, being in the car with someone, and having your hands full of groceries are kind of restricting. Maybe if I didn't feel that kind of restriction I wouldn't have felt as uncomfortable...

Your concerns and feelings of discomfort are valid, and even Korean people would find the behaviors you've described as weird and off-putting (at least if it were directed at them -- there IS a number of people here who don't seem to think that the same applies towards westerners or "western-looking" foreigners, though, based on misconceptions of "western" cultures -- it's not the majority, but it's significant enough to be worth mentioning). Most people in your same situation would have felt the same way, regardless of their nationalities, period. 

I've faced a lot of the same creepy behavior as you have. Sometimes the people involved weren't trying to be creeps but were choosing to ignore social norms based on ill-conceived stereotypes, sometimes the people are just super socially awkward and you're not the only one they make uncomfortable (take that foreign guy you mentioned who kept pushing for your contact details even though you'd made it clear that you weren't interested in sharing them with a random stranger), but a lot of the times they really and truly are creeps.

Much like any other country in this world, this country both attracts and has its fair share of creeps, but, unfortunately for a many of us, there's also a lot of hypersexualization and fetishisation of foreign women in Korea, and that turns many of us into popular targets for creepy behavior here. Experiences don't really tend to vary, only the degrees, and that seems to depend a lot on where you live and how often you're out and about on your own. If you're foreign-looking and at least mildly attractive, you're going to get some unwanted attention from creeps here and there. I've been touched (they usually pretend it was an accident, but it's super clear that it wasn't), I've been grabbed, I've had guys box me in to prevent me from walking away from them, and it can definitely get scary.

My own advice is to remember that most people, creeps included, won't do anything beyond asking for English lessons or dropping the occasional, random proposition, so don't become too stressed-out or fearful over this behavior.

BUT, I'm not telling you not to take your personal safety seriously, though. You should always remain alert and ready to protect yourself in whatever ways are necessary, and you shouldn't feel bad about having to shoot down requests in order to maintain that. There's a time and a place for everything, including socialization and how far you can take that socialization. Most people understand that, and the ones who don't will just have to learn the hard way.

Second piece of advise: If someone is making you uncomfortable for whatever reason, end the conversation right then and there. Since coming here, I've learned that the longer you engage with them, the more likely (and aggressive) inappropriate behavior will become. If you get a bad vibe, calmly and politely come up with an excuse to end the conversation and, if necessary, to LEAVE the area (even if you're waiting at a bus stop). If you've already told them "no" to ANYTHING, and they keep pushing, that's a red flag and you need to end it (just try to do it calmly and politely, if possible). Same if you've dropped enough social-normitive "hints" that you're not interested in talking or straight-up told them that you're not interested, and they keep trying to monopolize your attention anyway (because, believe me, most of these guys can tell, they're just choosing to ignore it because they think they can wear you down). Most of my bad experiences was because I ignored this rule.

Don't feel bad about taking your personal safety and sense of dignity seriously. Stay calm, but don't ever let any of these type of guys try to take control of a situation -- you'll be okay.

That's great advice. I often feel like I'm being clear that I want something to stop, but walking away is probably the better option when people get pushy.

Fortunately, I haven't been in a lot of situations like this. Unfortunately, I'm naturally non-confrontational, so I'm not used to being firm or cutting conversations short when I start to feel uncomfortable.

I was outside of my building just playing solitaire on my phone. I look up and there's a dude on his bike and he's looking at me, and so I mumbled "Annyeonghaseyo" quietly out of politeness. He gets off his bike and walks it over to the wall of my building to lean it there and starts to try to speak to me, in Korean. At the time I was garbage at Korean but could understand some things. Like when he asked how old I was. I felt pretty uncomfortable. Despite knowing Koreans often ask how old a person is, I also know it's a habit that stems from the whole "What honorifics should I be using for you?" so the fact he was clearly older than me just made me feel like "...When it's obvious I'm younger than you, why are you asking me this?" He said he was 54, by the way. And looked it.

Of what I did understand, he told me I was pretty, and he wanted my phone number. Even though I was clearly not understanding most of what he was saying. So I guess it's not really conversation he's after, then. He also did this thing... It happened to me once before, also with an older Korean man, where he gestured casually, but his fingers hit the top of my boob when it happened. First time I thought it was maybe an accident and he was too embarrassed to apologize. Second time, I tried to back away.

I was free to go back into my house, or just to go somewhere else (because honestly I was afraid of going into the building and him realizing I live there). Except that, when I tried to back away so I could tell him I had to leave, he grabbed my arm and pulled me to keep me there. When I pulled back, he held on tighter to keep me in place. It was terrifying.

The point of this story is... sometimes you DON'T have that kind of restriction, and they really are creeps, and they'll find a way to restrict you otherwise.

I agree you should always be cautious. I also have a story, not about me, but another foreign teacher who lived near me.

Everyday I would take the same bus to school, and noticed that a across the street there was a foreign woman who ways always being uncomfortably approached by an older korean man in the morning. It was pretty weird, and he looked kind of aggressive, so I normally wouldn't care but this happened like every day.

I left early one day and saw that the guy would drive near the bus stop, park his car, go talk to the woman, then go back in his car and drive off once she left. Bizarre, right? And he made it look like he was waiting for the bus.

I went and told the woman a couple days later, and I guess she switched bus stops cause I never saw her again, lol. She seemed kind of miffed that I came up to talk to her, whatever.

Another time I was in Busan and I wasn't sure what bus to take, and there were two younger American girls also waiting for the bus. I went up to ask them if it was the right bus stop and they FREAKED OUT. Like, I'm also American and nicely dressed, whats the big deal? They wouldn't even talk to me and left. Soo, yeah.

All of these stories are terrifying, and I hope none of you have to experience or witness something like that again. But I'm really grateful that you shared them. It kind of puts things into perspective.

I'll definitely leave uncomfortable situations a lot sooner, instead of waiting and hoping it ends quickly. Maybe I'll find a new bus stop too if people are... particularly persistent.

(Also, I'm sorry people were upset with you at the bus stop... Maybe bus stops are just really bad places to talk to people...)

First and 6th periods switched, AGAIN.

This time, they waited all 30 minutes I was in the room with them after the staff meeting to tell me after the bell for class to start ****** RINGS. I'm already stressed out enough as it is and completely on edge and now I just want to burn everything to the goddamn ground, ugh.

All my other new arrivals say this is the best decision they've ever made, **** it. This is the worst one I've made. I'm miserable.

First and 6th periods switched, AGAIN.

This time, they waited all 30 minutes I was in the room with them after the staff meeting to tell me after the bell for class to start ****** RINGS. I'm already stressed out enough as it is and completely on edge and now I just want to burn everything to the goddamn ground, ugh.

All my other new arrivals say this is the best decision they've ever made, **** it. This is the worst one I've made. I'm miserable.

Sorry to hear that things aren't going well. It can be pretty overwhelming at first!

   Short notice schedule changes are pretty frequent at my schools too. I find that having all the lessons planned out the week before more or less kills the stress those changes cause. Sudden schedule change? Meh, no problemo: everything's already prepared so all I need to do is wander over to a different classroom.
   Some teachers prepare their lessons a month in advance, but I feel that that's going a weeee bit overboard...

First and 6th periods switched, AGAIN.

This time, they waited all 30 minutes I was in the room with them after the staff meeting to tell me after the bell for class to start ****** RINGS. I'm already stressed out enough as it is and completely on edge and now I just want to burn everything to the goddamn ground, ugh.

All my other new arrivals say this is the best decision they've ever made, **** it. This is the worst one I've made. I'm miserable.

I sympathize that you don't like sudden changes, but what about making sure your materials for Monday are ready on Friday before you finish work? Every teacher I know, including myself, makes sure that Monday's stuff is prepped and ready to go before leaving for the weekend, so that if there's some sort of sudden schedule change, there's no drama or stress about it.

That would make too much sense ;)