RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying. I know that no one is trying to be annoying, frustrating, or frankly scary, but they are being annoying, frustrating, and super scary. I'm glad this happens so infrequently, but sometimes, it just builds up...

A while ago, I was waiting for a bus and another foreigner started talking to me and asked me for my number because it was so hard to find other English speakers where he lives. I told him I don't give out my phone number to strangers. Then he told me if we talked more we wouldn't be strangers and asked for my Kakao ID. I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

About once a month, someone asks me if I'm Russian. It wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the issue of associating Russians with prostitutes. Last week, a taxi driver asked me if I was Russian, and I have never said I was an American faster in my life.

This weekend, I was coming back from the grocery store, both hands occupied and saw this man waiting at the corner. I figured he was waiting for someone to pick him up, since we were close to the bus terminal and he hadn't crossed yet. After I cross the street, he starts walking. Eventually, he gets in front of me and starts asking me questions in English. I'm obviously preoccupied with other things, on my way home. It was the middle of the day, so I wasn't worried about anything happening, but like... it felt like he was following me home. (I mean, he was literally following me home, but I don't know if that's what he meant to do.)

I don't think these people mean to be creepy, but they are so creepy. Part of me wants to take it as they just want to speak English. They're just curious. They just want to know they're not the only foreigner. That kind of thing, but I also want to scream.

I think it bothers me more, because trying to get on the last bus home, being in the car with someone, and having your hands full of groceries are kind of restricting. Maybe if I didn't feel that kind of restriction I wouldn't have felt as uncomfortable...

I feel bad for the person who was trying to talk to you on the bus. I feel so shitty as an American in Korea. People from other countries definitely bond much easier than Americans. The Korean community in the states is so accepting whereas Americans in the countryside can't be arsed to even talk to their fellow countrymen.

Maybe if I didn't feel that kind of restriction I wouldn't have felt as uncomfortable...

I was outside of my building just playing solitaire on my phone. I look up and there's a dude on his bike and he's looking at me, and so I mumbled "Annyeonghaseyo" quietly out of politeness. He gets off his bike and walks it over to the wall of my building to lean it there and starts to try to speak to me, in Korean. At the time I was garbage at Korean but could understand some things. Like when he asked how old I was. I felt pretty uncomfortable. Despite knowing Koreans often ask how old a person is, I also know it's a habit that stems from the whole "What honorifics should I be using for you?" so the fact he was clearly older than me just made me feel like "...When it's obvious I'm younger than you, why are you asking me this?" He said he was 54, by the way. And looked it.

Of what I did understand, he told me I was pretty, and he wanted my phone number. Even though I was clearly not understanding most of what he was saying. So I guess it's not really conversation he's after, then. He also did this thing... It happened to me once before, also with an older Korean man, where he gestured casually, but his fingers hit the top of my boob when it happened. First time I thought it was maybe an accident and he was too embarrassed to apologize. Second time, I tried to back away.

I was free to go back into my house, or just to go somewhere else (because honestly I was afraid of going into the building and him realizing I live there). Except that, when I tried to back away so I could tell him I had to leave, he grabbed my arm and pulled me to keep me there. When I pulled back, he held on tighter to keep me in place. It was terrifying.

The point of this story is... sometimes you DON'T have that kind of restriction, and they really are creeps, and they'll find a way to restrict you otherwise.

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying. I know that no one is trying to be annoying, frustrating, or frankly scary, but they are being annoying, frustrating, and super scary. I'm glad this happens so infrequently, but sometimes, it just builds up...

A while ago, I was waiting for a bus and another foreigner started talking to me and asked me for my number because it was so hard to find other English speakers where he lives. I told him I don't give out my phone number to strangers. Then he told me if we talked more we wouldn't be strangers and asked for my Kakao ID. I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

About once a month, someone asks me if I'm Russian. It wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the issue of associating Russians with prostitutes. Last week, a taxi driver asked me if I was Russian, and I have never said I was an American faster in my life.

This weekend, I was coming back from the grocery store, both hands occupied and saw this man waiting at the corner. I figured he was waiting for someone to pick him up, since we were close to the bus terminal and he hadn't crossed yet. After I cross the street, he starts walking. Eventually, he gets in front of me and starts asking me questions in English. I'm obviously preoccupied with other things, on my way home. It was the middle of the day, so I wasn't worried about anything happening, but like... it felt like he was following me home. (I mean, he was literally following me home, but I don't know if that's what he meant to do.)

I don't think these people mean to be creepy, but they are so creepy. Part of me wants to take it as they just want to speak English. They're just curious. They just want to know they're not the only foreigner. That kind of thing, but I also want to scream.

I think it bothers me more, because trying to get on the last bus home, being in the car with someone, and having your hands full of groceries are kind of restricting. Maybe if I didn't feel that kind of restriction I wouldn't have felt as uncomfortable...

Your concerns and feelings of discomfort are valid, and even Korean people would find the behaviors you've described as weird and off-putting (at least if it were directed at them -- there IS a number of people here who don't seem to think that the same applies towards westerners or "western-looking" foreigners, though, based on misconceptions of "western" cultures -- it's not the majority, but it's significant enough to be worth mentioning). Most people in your same situation would have felt the same way, regardless of their nationalities, period. 

I've faced a lot of the same creepy behavior as you have. Sometimes the people involved weren't trying to be creeps but were choosing to ignore social norms based on ill-conceived stereotypes, sometimes the people are just super socially awkward and you're not the only one they make uncomfortable (take that foreign guy you mentioned who kept pushing for your contact details even though you'd made it clear that you weren't interested in sharing them with a random stranger), but a lot of the times they really and truly are creeps.

Much like any other country in this world, this country both attracts and has its fair share of creeps, but, unfortunately for a many of us, there's also a lot of hypersexualization and fetishisation of foreign women in Korea, and that turns many of us into popular targets for creepy behavior here. Experiences don't really tend to vary, only the degrees, and that seems to depend a lot on where you live and how often you're out and about on your own. If you're foreign-looking and at least mildly attractive, you're going to get some unwanted attention from creeps here and there. I've been touched (they usually pretend it was an accident, but it's super clear that it wasn't), I've been grabbed, I've had guys box me in to prevent me from walking away from them, and it can definitely get scary.

My own advice is to remember that most people, creeps included, won't do anything beyond asking for English lessons or dropping the occasional, random proposition, so don't become too stressed-out or fearful over this behavior.

BUT, I'm not telling you not to take your personal safety seriously, though. You should always remain alert and ready to protect yourself in whatever ways are necessary, and you shouldn't feel bad about having to shoot down requests in order to maintain that. There's a time and a place for everything, including socialization and how far you can take that socialization. Most people understand that, and the ones who don't will just have to learn the hard way.

Second piece of advise: If someone is making you uncomfortable for whatever reason, end the conversation right then and there. Since coming here, I've learned that the longer you engage with them, the more likely (and aggressive) inappropriate behavior will become. If you get a bad vibe, calmly and politely come up with an excuse to end the conversation and, if necessary, to LEAVE the area (even if you're waiting at a bus stop). If you've already told them "no" to ANYTHING, and they keep pushing, that's a red flag and you need to end it (just try to do it calmly and politely, if possible). Same if you've dropped enough social-normitive "hints" that you're not interested in talking or straight-up told them that you're not interested, and they keep trying to monopolize your attention anyway (because, believe me, most of these guys can tell, they're just choosing to ignore it because they think they can wear you down). Most of my bad experiences was because I ignored this rule.

Don't feel bad about taking your personal safety and sense of dignity seriously. Stay calm, but don't ever let any of these type of guys try to take control of a situation -- you'll be okay.

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying. I know that no one is trying to be annoying, frustrating, or frankly scary, but they are being annoying, frustrating, and super scary. I'm glad this happens so infrequently, but sometimes, it just builds up...

A while ago, I was waiting for a bus and another foreigner started talking to me and asked me for my number because it was so hard to find other English speakers where he lives. I told him I don't give out my phone number to strangers. Then he told me if we talked more we wouldn't be strangers and asked for my Kakao ID. I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

I feel bad for the person who was trying to talk to you on the bus. I feel so shitty as an American in Korea. People from other countries definitely bond much easier than Americans. The Korean community in the states is so accepting whereas Americans in the countryside can't be arsed to even talk to their fellow countrymen.

That man was twice my age, did not work in teaching, and was not American. Aside from language, which English was not his first, and being in a foreign country, we had nothing in common.

More importantly, he did not listen when I said no.

He wasn't a person I wanted to talk to at the bus stop, and he definitely wasn't someone I wanted to talk to after that. If someone ignores you the first time, why would they listen the second time? He only stopped talking to me because his bus arrived.

He was not my fellow countryman. However, if a fellow countryman treated me that way, ignored me when I said no, I wouldn't want to talk to them either. Respecting someones boundaries is really important.

I'm sorry you feel bad as the American community in Korea, and I hope don't feel isolated wherever you are.

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying...I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

I feel bad for the person who was trying to talk to you on the bus...

...I'm sorry you feel bad as the American community in Korea, and I hope don't feel isolated wherever you are.

Chinguetti's comments sound much more helpful here. I would *try to* ignore all the rest. There are stories like this that pop up all the time on waygook, so don't feel like it's just you. Unfortunately, they tend to attract as many unsympathetic comments as supportive ones.

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying...I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

I feel bad for the person who was trying to talk to you on the bus...

...I'm sorry you feel bad as the American community in Korea, and I hope don't feel isolated wherever you are.

Chinguetti's comments sound much more helpful here. I would *try to* ignore all the rest. There are stories like this that pop up all the time on waygook, so don't feel like it's just you. Unfortunately, they tend to attract as many unsympathetic comments as supportive ones.

Better to be safe than sorry.  Yeah it sucks if someone's feelings get hurt if he/she is legitimately trying to be friendly but I'd much rather risk a stranger's briefly hurt feelings than my safety.  And if someone can't understand that they he/she lives a privileged life.

Best to always be alert, unfortunately, and to err on the side of caution. 

About once a month, someone asks me if I'm Russian. It wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the issue of associating Russians with prostitutes. Last week, a taxi driver asked me if I was Russian, and I have never said I was an American faster in my life.

I'm really curious what the requirements are for this question (not victim blaming, simply wondering what Koreans consider "Russian" to be). I have Eastern European ancestry so assumed I'd frequently get this question but it's never happened. At the same time, I try to be as unapproachable as possible. Headphones, sunglasses, and a firm stare down reserved for the creeps.

I'll also add that, yeah, I get that people are lonely and maybe they just want someone to talk to HOWEVER I think this disproportianely affects women whose time/attention men feel entitled to. Especially since, as in your case, they rarely take no for an answer.

I'm really curious what the requirements are for this question (not victim blaming, simply wondering what Koreans consider "Russian" to be). I have Eastern European ancestry so assumed I'd frequently get this question but it's never happened. At the same time, I try to be as unapproachable as possible. Headphones, sunglasses, and a firm stare down reserved for the creeps.

Normally if you're white and what they would consider attractive, they'll ask if you're Russian, but it doesn't have to follow that criteria and doesn't guarantee that you'll get asked. I know some very pretty blonde white girls who have never been asked. Meanwhile, I've been asked if I were Russian a few times, and I look NOTHING like Korea's stereotype of Russian women OR have an accent that comes even remotely close to sounding Russian. Most people think I'm from Latin America or, like, Spain/Portugal.

It's often just simply code for "foreign prostitute," so you don't have to be the stereotypical white woman to get asked. And it has nothing to do with the way you dress, too. Only a certain type of man would ask a random woman if she were a prostitute, and these kind of men just zero in on the fact that you're foreign. If they ask you and you say "no" or seem confused by their question, they'll know you're not "in the know." And they normally don't get embarrassed by asking random women this because most of them don't realize that this is fairly common knowledge among the foreign community. They still think it's some big secret that only prostitutes or other Korean men know about.

Sometimes it truly is out of curiosity when they ask (in these cases, though, there's a normal conversation that naturally leads up to it), but if you get randomly approached and asked if you're Russian from out of nowhere, it's just wishful thinking that they can buy you.

A lot of if, when and how you'll be asked if you're Russian can depend on where you are at the time. Some places/areas are more prone to having scuzzy men with a lack of social awareness (like, yeah, I understand that prostitution is alive and well here, but anyone with any amount of common sense knows you don't approach a random woman to ask her if she's a prostitute ffs) -- while I've been propositioned in my assigned town several times, I've only been asked if I was Russian once while all of the other times were in places like Seoul or Busan, usually in more "isolated" areas with a specific demographic... but it still varies. I normally get the Russian question from older Korean men while younger guys just straight up ask me for sex or try to get my number for "English lessons", but I've had it the other way around, too.

It can also depend on how much exposure you have (basically how much and how often you run around on your own), or how "busy" you look (i.e. you moving at a fast pace vs. more casually walking/ambling or waiting somewhere).

And then there's how approachable they think you are. So yeah, having resting-bitch-face and keeping headphones on will do a lot to minimize the chances of getting approached and randomly asked if you're Russian. They also normally won't ask if other people are close enough to hear them... doesn't stop all of them, though, that's how socially unaware and/or arrogant some of these assholes are.

So long story short, there's no guarantee that you will or won't get asked if you're Russian, but your chances of getting asked rise and fall depending on where you live, where you travel, how often you travel alone, and how approachable or "agreeable" the offending men deem you to be.

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying...I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

I feel bad for the person who was trying to talk to you on the bus...

...I'm sorry you feel bad as the American community in Korea, and I hope don't feel isolated wherever you are.

Chinguetti's comments sound much more helpful here. I would *try to* ignore all the rest. There are stories like this that pop up all the time on waygook, so don't feel like it's just you. Unfortunately, they tend to attract as many unsympathetic comments as supportive ones.

Better to be safe than sorry.  Yeah it sucks if someone's feelings get hurt if he/she is legitimately trying to be friendly but I'd much rather risk a stranger's briefly hurt feelings than my safety.  And if someone can't understand that they he/she lives a privileged life.

Best to always be alert, unfortunately, and to err on the side of caution.

I agree you should always be cautious. I also have a story, not about me, but another foreign teacher who lived near me.

Everyday I would take the same bus to school, and noticed that a across the street there was a foreign woman who ways always being uncomfortably approached by an older korean man in the morning. It was pretty weird, and he looked kind of aggressive, so I normally wouldn't care but this happened like every day.

I left early one day and saw that the guy would drive near the bus stop, park his car, go talk to the woman, then go back in his car and drive off once she left. Bizarre, right? And he made it look like he was waiting for the bus.

I went and told the woman a couple days later, and I guess she switched bus stops cause I never saw her again, lol. She seemed kind of miffed that I came up to talk to her, whatever.

Another time I was in Busan and I wasn't sure what bus to take, and there were two younger American girls also waiting for the bus. I went up to ask them if it was the right bus stop and they FREAKED OUT. Like, I'm also American and nicely dressed, whats the big deal? They wouldn't even talk to me and left. Soo, yeah.

Not enough ranting!

The very first light on the way out of town just turned green as I got to it on my way to my country school this morning. This is great because this light takes forever. But we're not moving! Some driver a few cars in front of me has either fallen asleep or is completely unaware. The light turns red and one car has gone through the entire green light. Queue long wait. SIGH

This type of thing is not uncommon and it makes me crazy. Korean drivers will go through a red light if it was recently yellow like their ass is on fire, but when they're waiting at a red, their brain goes out the window. I see so many cars being put in park - and even turned off which is insane - at red lights, it drives me nuts!

Not enough ranting!

The very first light on the way out of town just turned green as I got to it on my way to my country school this morning. This is great because this light takes forever. But we're not moving! Some driver a few cars in front of me has either fallen asleep or is completely unaware. The light turns red and one car has gone through the entire green light. Queue long wait. SIGH

This type of thing is not uncommon and it makes me crazy. Korean drivers will go through a red light if it was recently yellow like their ass is on fire, but when they're waiting at a red, their brain goes out the window. I see so many cars being put in park - and even turned off which is insane - at red lights, it drives me nuts!

As far as cars turning off, a lot of high-end cars automatically turn off when idling at a stop. Its new tech.

On the note of weird people who may or may not be creepy... I was walking home last night after buying a large bag of apples and oranges. I was waiting at a cross walk and there was an older guy, maybe 50s, on a bike behind me. As I started crossing, he slowly pedaled past me and turned back and just watched me. He would pedal a little and turn back and stare. He crossed the street and kept going and I thought that was that, but then up past a store, he was stopped on his bike, looking back until I came into sight. He paced me for a little while like that, maybe 2 blocks, then final kept going.

I had this whole plan of going fruit ninja on him if I needed to, haha.

I'm going to the bathroom to take a dump.   

Did you finish yet?  I didn't see any post in the 'Happy Shit' thread.

Maybe it was an angry shit.  I have the black pen. 

http://www.allkpop.com/article/2017/04/international-fans-demand-apology-from-sbs-for-hong-hyun-hees-blackface-comedy-skit

 

Not enough ranting!

The very first light on the way out of town just turned green as I got to it on my way to my country school this morning. This is great because this light takes forever. But we're not moving! Some driver a few cars in front of me has either fallen asleep or is completely unaware. The light turns red and one car has gone through the entire green light. Queue long wait. SIGH

This type of thing is not uncommon and it makes me crazy. Korean drivers will go through a red light if it was recently yellow like their ass is on fire, but when they're waiting at a red, their brain goes out the window. I see so many cars being put in park - and even turned off which is insane - at red lights, it drives me nuts!

As far as cars turning off, a lot of high-end cars automatically turn off when idling at a stop. Its new tech.

Not only high-end cars. They started putting it in just regular ole' cars a couple of years ago. My buddy's 2013 Hyundai does the same, as many others that I've seen.

I do get what you're saying though. I agree. People seem to fly through red lights, but when it comes time for take off when it hits green, they take forever. I get not wanting to slam on the gas, but it shouldn't take the better part of a minute to get to 60kph either.

As far as cars turning off, a lot of high-end cars automatically turn off when idling at a stop. Its new tech.

I live in the arse-end of Korea. It's not new tech out here.

That's cool that cars do it automatically now though. At least as long as they manage to start up quickly afterwards. Also, I was always under the impression it took more fuel to start a car than to let it idle for some minutes. I imagine ignition tech has improved since then.

Argh! Now I'm not ranting in the ranting thread. More ranting!

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying...I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

I feel bad for the person who was trying to talk to you on the bus...

...I'm sorry you feel bad as the American community in Korea, and I hope don't feel isolated wherever you are.

Chinguetti's comments sound much more helpful here. I would *try to* ignore all the rest. There are stories like this that pop up all the time on waygook, so don't feel like it's just you. Unfortunately, they tend to attract as many unsympathetic comments as supportive ones.

I assumed it was a 20 something man and a 20 something woman who were both Americans in a small town in Korea. I was wrong, but under my initial assumption, I don't feel like my post was that bad. Unless you've lived in a town that only has a CU, then you don't really understand how starved for language you can be. So when you see someone your age and possibly from the same country, you're going to be a bit bolder than normal.

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying...I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

I feel bad for the person who was trying to talk to you on the bus...

...I'm sorry you feel bad as the American community in Korea, and I hope don't feel isolated wherever you are.

Chinguetti's comments sound much more helpful here. I would *try to* ignore all the rest. There are stories like this that pop up all the time on waygook, so don't feel like it's just you. Unfortunately, they tend to attract as many unsympathetic comments as supportive ones.

I assumed it was a 20 something man and a 20 something woman who were both Americans in a small town in Korea. I was wrong, but under my initial assumption, I don't feel like my post was that bad. Unless you've lived in a town that only has a CU, then you don't really understand how starved for language you can be. So when you see someone your age and possibly from the same country, you're going to be a bit bolder than normal.

Hahaha, a CU? What is that! Ahahaha

I live in a teeny tiny town...

I'm going to the bathroom to take a dump.   

Why when Korean men go to the toilet to do a shit do their ASSES EXPLODE like Kim Jeong Euns missiles?

Do they really think that explosive diarrhea is just normal?

Hahaha, a CU? What is that! Ahahaha
I live in a teeny tiny town...[/quote]

They had their own brand of umbrella a while ago (green/purple design) and it was branded as the CUmbrella.

Very unfortunate.