RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

Not to take sides here (aside from my own), but it does seem that humans certainly enjoyed much more diverse diets in times past.

http://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2017/04/19/our-food-supply-always-in-season-always-at-risk

Rob Dunn, author of the new book, “Never Out of Season: How Having the Food We Want When We Want It Threatens Our Food Supply and Our Future."

Our hungry ancestors [once] would eat hundreds of different kinds of plants and animals in a single week.  Today, with huge scale global agriculture and super-dominant food crops, 80 percent of calories consumed by humans come from just twelve species.

Jared Diamond has some thoughts on this as well...

"The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race"

http://discovermagazine.com/1987/may/02-the-worst-mistake-in-the-history-of-the-human-race

I got a question: What happened to the ranting/venting megathreads 1.0 and 2.0?   

I got a question: What happened to the ranting/venting megathreads 1.0 and 2.0?   

2.0 was deleted when the OP asked that their account and posts be removed.

1.0 was before my time.

Not to take sides here (aside from my own), but it does seem that humans certainly enjoyed much more diverse diets in times past.
http://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2017/04/19/our-food-supply-always-in-season-always-at-risk

Rob Dunn, author of the new book, “Never Out of Season: How Having the Food We Want When We Want It Threatens Our Food Supply and Our Future."

Our hungry ancestors [once] would eat hundreds of different kinds of plants and animals in a single week.  Today, with huge scale global agriculture and super-dominant food crops, 80 percent of calories consumed by humans come from just twelve species.

Jared Diamond has some thoughts on this as well...
"The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race"
http://discovermagazine.com/1987/may/02-the-worst-mistake-in-the-history-of-the-human-race

I have issues. Issues with those articles, I mean.

1. They claim modern foraging tribes spend 14 hours a week finding food. Cool. I spend about 2 hours a week earning the cash I need to buy a week's worth of groceries. In addition to the 12 hours saved, I am providing a highly specialized service that no scavenging society could effectively support.

2. Winter. Even if one believes that our Pleistocene ancestors had abundant variety in their diets (which I doubt: the average primate, while considered a generalist, derives the majority of it's calories from a highly specialized diet), that variety decreased dramatically (sometimes to zero) during winter/dry-season. The extremely high incidence of rickets and other osteopathies in fossil records is a good indicator of nutritional deficiency caused by a narrow diets.

3. While it's true that the majority of modern human's calories come from only a few dozen species, there are literally thousands of back up species to switch to in the case of one crop disappearing. You know how banana-flavoured candies taste kind of not-at-all-like-bananas? It's because the flavour was originally synthesized to mimic the taste of a banana cultivar that was wiped out in the 1950s by the Panama virus (not this Panama virus). It was almost immediately replaced by another cultivar. Same story for grapes etc. Of course, if the current global honeybee crisis isn't rectified, then finding replacement crops for the hundreds that will disappear might be a bit touch and go...

4. Listing specific populations (such as the Irish during the Potato famine (link is a terrible joke. Sorry. ), or Meso-Americans shortly after the arrival of the Conquistadors) that were nearly wiped out due to an over-reliance on a single crop is a bit of a fallacy: those populations were *forced* to rely on a mono-crop by outside, uh, forces. It's like saying that it was my own fault that I developed scurvy during my uni years due to eating nothing but Mr.Noodles ramen, mayonnaise packets, and pizza crusts scavenged from dorm rubbish bins when really it was the fault of... well... somebody else... 

5. Go to the supermarket. Boom, hundreds of distinctly different food sources (sometimes in a single product). I mean, most of those food sources are literally poison, but hey, that's a different discussion...

6.Look at the source. Jared. Would you trust that guy? I sure wouldn't!

This week at my mini school there are 2 new teachers doing stuff on the library computer. Who are you?? Go aaaaaaway~~~

Not to take sides here (aside from my own), but it does seem that humans certainly enjoyed much more diverse diets in times past.
http://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2017/04/19/our-food-supply-always-in-season-always-at-risk

Rob Dunn, author of the new book, “Never Out of Season: How Having the Food We Want When We Want It Threatens Our Food Supply and Our Future."

Our hungry ancestors [once] would eat hundreds of different kinds of plants and animals in a single week.  Today, with huge scale global agriculture and super-dominant food crops, 80 percent of calories consumed by humans come from just twelve species.

Jared Diamond has some thoughts on this as well...
"The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race"
http://discovermagazine.com/1987/may/02-the-worst-mistake-in-the-history-of-the-human-race

I have issues. Issues with those articles, I mean.

1. They claim modern foraging tribes spend 14 hours a week finding food. Cool. I spend about 2 hours a week earning the cash I need to buy a week's worth of groceries. In addition to the 12 hours saved, I am providing a highly specialized service that no scavenging society could effectively support.

2. Winter. Even if one believes that our Pleistocene ancestors had abundant variety in their diets (which I doubt: the average primate, while considered a generalist, derives the majority of it's calories from a highly specialized diet), that variety decreased dramatically (sometimes to zero) during winter/dry-season. The extremely high incidence of rickets and other osteopathies in fossil records is a good indicator of nutritional deficiency caused by a narrow diets.

3. While it's true that the majority of modern human's calories come from only a few dozen species, there are literally thousands of back up species to switch to in the case of one crop disappearing. You know how banana-flavored candies taste kind of not-at-all-like-bananas? It's because the flavor was originally synthesized to mimic the taste of a banana cultivar that was wiped out in the 1950s by the Panama virus (not this Panama virus). It was almost immediately replaced by another cultivar. Same story for grapes etc. Of course, if the current global honeybee crisis isn't rectified, then finding replacement crops for the hundreds that will disappear might be a bit touch and go...

4. Listing specific populations (such as the Irish during the Potato famine (link is a terrible joke. Sorry. ), or Meso-Americans shortly after the arrival of the Conquistadors) that were nearly wiped out due to an over-reliance on a single crop is a bit of a fallacy: those populations were *forced* to rely on a mono-crop by outside, uh, forces. It's like saying that it was my own fault that I developed scurvy during my uni years due to eating nothing but Mr.Noodles ramen, mayonnaise packets, and pizza crusts scavenged from dorm rubbish bins when really it was the fault of... well... somebody else... 

5. Go to the supermarket. Boom, hundreds of distinctly different food sources (sometimes in a single product). I mean, most of those food sources are literally poison, but hey, that's a different discussion...

6.Look at the source. Jared. Would you trust that guy? I sure wouldn't!

Sure. If you believe in human progress (or human progress) -- as most of us do, or at least would like to -- and that we are on the brink of the Singularity then you probably wouldn't be satisfied with a foraging lifestyle. And you're right, life would have been much harder for humans residing in winter climes, but foragers also tend to be nomadic.

By bringing up the potato famine (re: your joke) I think the author was just making the point that such a catastrophe of human suffering could never have happened on such a large scale in the pre-agricultural era. He did cite a paleontological study of a hunter-gatherer society and agricultural society whose existences occurred adjacently.

Another example of paleopathology at work is the study of Indian skeletons from burial mounds in the Illinois and Ohio river valleys. At Dickson Mounds, located near the confluence of the Spoon and Illinois rivers, archaeologists have excavated some 800 skeletons that paint a picture of the health changes that occurred when a hunter-gatherer culture gave way to intensive maize farming around A. D. 1150. Studies by George Armelagos and his colleagues then at the University of Massachusetts show these early farmers paid a price for their new-found livelihood. Compared to the hunter-gatherers who preceded them, the farmers had a nearly 50 per cent increase in enamel defects indicative of malnutrition, a fourfold increase in iron-deficiency anemia (evidenced by a bone condition called porotic hyperostosis), a threefold rise in bone lesions reflecting infectious disease in general, and an increase in degenerative conditions of the spine, probably reflecting a lot of hard physical labor. "Life expectancy at birth in the pre-agricultural community was bout twenty-six years," says Armelagos, "but in the post-agricultural community it was nineteen years. So these episodes of nutritional stress and infectious disease were seriously affecting their ability to survive."

Also,

I mean, most of those food sources are literally poison, but hey, that's a different discussion...

Wasn't this actually the crux of the disagreement, though? And didn't Pecan just complain that there weren't enough varieties of tomatoes at his local grocery store? And I don't even like banana-flavored candy. But ultimately you're right; you can't trust Jared.

.Why don't you all start a thread instead arguing in here?

.Why don't you all start a thread instead arguing in here?

very meta

Buying nice things is a trap.

I bought a really nice desk. Then realized that since it's a really nice desk, I don't want to trash the surface of it, so I need to buy a desk mat. And also I need to by a monitor stand so my monitor is at a better height. UGH. Spending money is awful.

It also sucks trying to go back to buying the cheaper stuff. I always find myself in this cycle when it comes to earbuds:

*Buy cheap earbuds*
"Ugh, these sound like sh!t."
*Buy fancy earbuds*
"Wow, these sound great!"
*Lose or mangle fancy earbuds*
"Well sh!t. I don't want to spend more good money on something I'm just going to lose or ruin."
*Buy cheap earbuds*
"Ugh, these sound like sh!t."

Rinse. Repeat.


Every. Friggin'. Time.

Oh. My earbuds are too expensive to lose, haha. I use Yamaha EPH-100 buds, and one pair usually lasts me about a year and a half before they get worn out. But they're like 150,000 per pair, so I'm super paranoid about them. I'd rather not listen to music than listen to it on cheap stuff.

I generally rock some Sennheisers, which are also not cheap. However, I seem to have the habit of randomly losing the rubber ear pieces, and Sennheiser uses a proprietary size, so I can't just go buy replacements from HomePlus or something.

When I finally lose one of every set of ear pieces, I tell myself "Screw that noise, I'm just going to get something more affordable," and I always, always regret it. This time I picked up a set of JBLs, which were $40, so they aren't like GS 25 bargain bin nonsense or anything, but when you're used to the fancy stuff...  ugh. I'm going to have to get something else.

I want to buy fancy earbuds.  But I'm paranoid that I'd lose/mangle them.  The pair I've got are aight.  Hmm...

I got cocky.

I went in before 1st period, needing to print out some stuff double-sided. I did a one-copy test to make sure I had it on the right settings, because I'm a responsible adult and don't like to waste paper.

OR SO I THOUGHT.

Cut to period 3, where I need to print off some more copies for my next class. "I already changed the setting so I'll just hurry up and print out the copies so I can go back to solitude." 10 pages of paper, wasted, because I didn't do my one-copy test to make sure no one changed the settings. I feel like I am single-handedly causing more rainforests to be cut down.

NEVER GET COCKY. NEVERRRRR.

Sidenote: Is this even the right use of "cocky"?

And I know I sound kinda comical and borderline sarcastic, but I really am disappointed in myself. ):

my photocopying story:

at my school we have a speed copying machine. it copies super-fast - like 2 or 3 pages per second - but works a little differently to a regular machine.

you have to put what you want copied on the glass, then push a button to make the machine scan the page and keep it in memory. and unless you push the 'clear memory' button, if you push 'copy' it'll just spit out copies of whatever was previously scan.

cue me going to the machine, putting my sheet on the glass, forgetting to press the 'clear memory' and then 'scan' buttons, and just pushing 'copy'.

machine spat out 300 pages of some random document all in korean.

but since i don't like to waste paper i took the pages, turned them upside down and used those to copy my worksheet on.

the kids ended up getting an english worksheet on one side and some school document on the other 

[/size][/size]

My copying story. I have somehow broken the copy machine an unimaginable number of times. I literally only press the button, and somehow it has always decided to break on me. A few month ago we got a new machine, and I have managed to only break it once. The copy machine of the past, I had about a 75% break rate, and a 50% rate to which it had to be repaired by an outside source. People have JUST finished printing on it, and I go to print one paper (it is a copier/printer ) and it gets shut down. I go to the main office to copy, and I am sure they cringe when they see me sit down at the shared computer to print something. When I sit, papers start flying out of the machine...I can't help but think they are trying to print before I break it again... 

Sure. If you believe in human progress (or human progress)

Clever. Took me a moment to get it. 
As for the singularity, well, that'll be the ultimate in dietary specialization: nothing but voltage for all of us! 

I think the author was just making the point that such a catastrophe of human suffering could never have happened on such a large scale in the pre-agricultural era.

    I won't disagree, but part of the reasons for that is that without agriculture, population densities would always remain extremely low. Not ploinking that brontosaurus with your spear or whatever means deprivation and possible starvation for the entire clan. An agrarian society could miss hundreds of figurative bronts without resulting in utter catastrophe

Also, "I mean, most of those food sources are literally poison, but hey, that's a different discussion..."
Wasn't this actually the crux of the disagreement, though?

I'm not really sure what the argument is about anymore, actually.   I was just ranting about those articles.

But ultimately you're right; you can't trust Jared.

Actually, I was thinking about the Biblical Jared. You know who I'm talking about: that guy constantly lying about his age?

I'm going to the bathroom to take a dump.   

@kyndo
I know we can't turn back time, but I can't help but think that if we had never invented agriculture maybe that incident with the car cutting me off would have transpired differently.

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying. I know that no one is trying to be annoying, frustrating, or frankly scary, but they are being annoying, frustrating, and super scary. I'm glad this happens so infrequently, but sometimes, it just builds up...

A while ago, I was waiting for a bus and another foreigner started talking to me and asked me for my number because it was so hard to find other English speakers where he lives. I told him I don't give out my phone number to strangers. Then he told me if we talked more we wouldn't be strangers and asked for my Kakao ID. I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

About once a month, someone asks me if I'm Russian. It wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the issue of associating Russians with prostitutes. Last week, a taxi driver asked me if I was Russian, and I have never said I was an American faster in my life.

This weekend, I was coming back from the grocery store, both hands occupied and saw this man waiting at the corner. I figured he was waiting for someone to pick him up, since we were close to the bus terminal and he hadn't crossed yet. After I cross the street, he starts walking. Eventually, he gets in front of me and starts asking me questions in English. I'm obviously preoccupied with other things, on my way home. It was the middle of the day, so I wasn't worried about anything happening, but like... it felt like he was following me home. (I mean, he was literally following me home, but I don't know if that's what he meant to do.)

I don't think these people mean to be creepy, but they are so creepy. Part of me wants to take it as they just want to speak English. They're just curious. They just want to know they're not the only foreigner. That kind of thing, but I also want to scream.

I think it bothers me more, because trying to get on the last bus home, being in the car with someone, and having your hands full of groceries are kind of restricting. Maybe if I didn't feel that kind of restriction I wouldn't have felt as uncomfortable...

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying. I know that no one is trying to be annoying, frustrating, or frankly scary, but they are being annoying, frustrating, and super scary. I'm glad this happens so infrequently, but sometimes, it just builds up...

A while ago, I was waiting for a bus and another foreigner started talking to me and asked me for my number because it was so hard to find other English speakers where he lives. I told him I don't give out my phone number to strangers. Then he told me if we talked more we wouldn't be strangers and asked for my Kakao ID. I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

About once a month, someone asks me if I'm Russian. It wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the issue of associating Russians with prostitutes. Last week, a taxi driver asked me if I was Russian, and I have never said I was an American faster in my life.

This weekend, I was coming back from the grocery store, both hands occupied and saw this man waiting at the corner. I figured he was waiting for someone to pick him up, since we were close to the bus terminal and he hadn't crossed yet. After I cross the street, he starts walking. Eventually, he gets in front of me and starts asking me questions in English. I'm obviously preoccupied with other things, on my way home. It was the middle of the day, so I wasn't worried about anything happening, but like... it felt like he was following me home. (I mean, he was literally following me home, but I don't know if that's what he meant to do.)

I don't think these people mean to be creepy, but they are so creepy. Part of me wants to take it as they just want to speak English. They're just curious. They just want to know they're not the only foreigner. That kind of thing, but I also want to scream.

I think it bothers me more, because trying to get on the last bus home, being in the car with someone, and having your hands full of groceries are kind of restricting. Maybe if I didn't feel that kind of restriction I wouldn't have felt as uncomfortable...

I feel bad for the person who was trying to talk to you on the bus. I feel so shitty as an American in Korea. People from other countries definitely bond much easier than Americans. The Korean community in the states is so accepting whereas Americans in the countryside can't be arsed to even talk to their fellow countrymen.

Maybe if I didn't feel that kind of restriction I wouldn't have felt as uncomfortable...

I was outside of my building just playing solitaire on my phone. I look up and there's a dude on his bike and he's looking at me, and so I mumbled "Annyeonghaseyo" quietly out of politeness. He gets off his bike and walks it over to the wall of my building to lean it there and starts to try to speak to me, in Korean. At the time I was garbage at Korean but could understand some things. Like when he asked how old I was. I felt pretty uncomfortable. Despite knowing Koreans often ask how old a person is, I also know it's a habit that stems from the whole "What honorifics should I be using for you?" so the fact he was clearly older than me just made me feel like "...When it's obvious I'm younger than you, why are you asking me this?" He said he was 54, by the way. And looked it.

Of what I did understand, he told me I was pretty, and he wanted my phone number. Even though I was clearly not understanding most of what he was saying. So I guess it's not really conversation he's after, then. He also did this thing... It happened to me once before, also with an older Korean man, where he gestured casually, but his fingers hit the top of my boob when it happened. First time I thought it was maybe an accident and he was too embarrassed to apologize. Second time, I tried to back away.

I was free to go back into my house, or just to go somewhere else (because honestly I was afraid of going into the building and him realizing I live there). Except that, when I tried to back away so I could tell him I had to leave, he grabbed my arm and pulled me to keep me there. When I pulled back, he held on tighter to keep me in place. It was terrifying.

The point of this story is... sometimes you DON'T have that kind of restriction, and they really are creeps, and they'll find a way to restrict you otherwise.

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying. I know that no one is trying to be annoying, frustrating, or frankly scary, but they are being annoying, frustrating, and super scary. I'm glad this happens so infrequently, but sometimes, it just builds up...

A while ago, I was waiting for a bus and another foreigner started talking to me and asked me for my number because it was so hard to find other English speakers where he lives. I told him I don't give out my phone number to strangers. Then he told me if we talked more we wouldn't be strangers and asked for my Kakao ID. I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

About once a month, someone asks me if I'm Russian. It wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the issue of associating Russians with prostitutes. Last week, a taxi driver asked me if I was Russian, and I have never said I was an American faster in my life.

This weekend, I was coming back from the grocery store, both hands occupied and saw this man waiting at the corner. I figured he was waiting for someone to pick him up, since we were close to the bus terminal and he hadn't crossed yet. After I cross the street, he starts walking. Eventually, he gets in front of me and starts asking me questions in English. I'm obviously preoccupied with other things, on my way home. It was the middle of the day, so I wasn't worried about anything happening, but like... it felt like he was following me home. (I mean, he was literally following me home, but I don't know if that's what he meant to do.)

I don't think these people mean to be creepy, but they are so creepy. Part of me wants to take it as they just want to speak English. They're just curious. They just want to know they're not the only foreigner. That kind of thing, but I also want to scream.

I think it bothers me more, because trying to get on the last bus home, being in the car with someone, and having your hands full of groceries are kind of restricting. Maybe if I didn't feel that kind of restriction I wouldn't have felt as uncomfortable...

Your concerns and feelings of discomfort are valid, and even Korean people would find the behaviors you've described as weird and off-putting (at least if it were directed at them -- there IS a number of people here who don't seem to think that the same applies towards westerners or "western-looking" foreigners, though, based on misconceptions of "western" cultures -- it's not the majority, but it's significant enough to be worth mentioning). Most people in your same situation would have felt the same way, regardless of their nationalities, period. 

I've faced a lot of the same creepy behavior as you have. Sometimes the people involved weren't trying to be creeps but were choosing to ignore social norms based on ill-conceived stereotypes, sometimes the people are just super socially awkward and you're not the only one they make uncomfortable (take that foreign guy you mentioned who kept pushing for your contact details even though you'd made it clear that you weren't interested in sharing them with a random stranger), but a lot of the times they really and truly are creeps.

Much like any other country in this world, this country both attracts and has its fair share of creeps, but, unfortunately for a many of us, there's also a lot of hypersexualization and fetishisation of foreign women in Korea, and that turns many of us into popular targets for creepy behavior here. Experiences don't really tend to vary, only the degrees, and that seems to depend a lot on where you live and how often you're out and about on your own. If you're foreign-looking and at least mildly attractive, you're going to get some unwanted attention from creeps here and there. I've been touched (they usually pretend it was an accident, but it's super clear that it wasn't), I've been grabbed, I've had guys box me in to prevent me from walking away from them, and it can definitely get scary.

My own advice is to remember that most people, creeps included, won't do anything beyond asking for English lessons or dropping the occasional, random proposition, so don't become too stressed-out or fearful over this behavior.

BUT, I'm not telling you not to take your personal safety seriously, though. You should always remain alert and ready to protect yourself in whatever ways are necessary, and you shouldn't feel bad about having to shoot down requests in order to maintain that. There's a time and a place for everything, including socialization and how far you can take that socialization. Most people understand that, and the ones who don't will just have to learn the hard way.

Second piece of advise: If someone is making you uncomfortable for whatever reason, end the conversation right then and there. Since coming here, I've learned that the longer you engage with them, the more likely (and aggressive) inappropriate behavior will become. If you get a bad vibe, calmly and politely come up with an excuse to end the conversation and, if necessary, to LEAVE the area (even if you're waiting at a bus stop). If you've already told them "no" to ANYTHING, and they keep pushing, that's a red flag and you need to end it (just try to do it calmly and politely, if possible). Same if you've dropped enough social-normitive "hints" that you're not interested in talking or straight-up told them that you're not interested, and they keep trying to monopolize your attention anyway (because, believe me, most of these guys can tell, they're just choosing to ignore it because they think they can wear you down). Most of my bad experiences was because I ignored this rule.

Don't feel bad about taking your personal safety and sense of dignity seriously. Stay calm, but don't ever let any of these type of guys try to take control of a situation -- you'll be okay.

Sometimes, communicating is really annoying. I know that no one is trying to be annoying, frustrating, or frankly scary, but they are being annoying, frustrating, and super scary. I'm glad this happens so infrequently, but sometimes, it just builds up...

A while ago, I was waiting for a bus and another foreigner started talking to me and asked me for my number because it was so hard to find other English speakers where he lives. I told him I don't give out my phone number to strangers. Then he told me if we talked more we wouldn't be strangers and asked for my Kakao ID. I really wanted to ask, "Do you not realize that I am basically trapped here until the bus comes and you are making me super uncomfortable? Do you not see that?"

I feel bad for the person who was trying to talk to you on the bus. I feel so shitty as an American in Korea. People from other countries definitely bond much easier than Americans. The Korean community in the states is so accepting whereas Americans in the countryside can't be arsed to even talk to their fellow countrymen.

That man was twice my age, did not work in teaching, and was not American. Aside from language, which English was not his first, and being in a foreign country, we had nothing in common.

More importantly, he did not listen when I said no.

He wasn't a person I wanted to talk to at the bus stop, and he definitely wasn't someone I wanted to talk to after that. If someone ignores you the first time, why would they listen the second time? He only stopped talking to me because his bus arrived.

He was not my fellow countryman. However, if a fellow countryman treated me that way, ignored me when I said no, I wouldn't want to talk to them either. Respecting someones boundaries is really important.

I'm sorry you feel bad as the American community in Korea, and I hope don't feel isolated wherever you are.