this place is full of white guys who just can't accept that they lack experience in certain areas to make worthwhile opinions on certain topics. they think everything has to relate back to something they've experienced. stop making false equivalencies. despite what your upbringing has told you, you don't know everything and you don't get a say in everything. why the hell does a white american/canadian/whatever, think his or her opinion on what the Asian diaspora experience matters whatsoever? why do they think they can relate?you can't relate. your hubris is at insane levels to think your opinion needs to be expressed. your life doesn't have the same layers. just accept it and move the **** on.
Quote from: yirgacheffe on December 05, 2016, 01:59:12 pmThe problem isn't that people are curious about someone's ethnicity; the problem is when they refuse to accept the answer that they're given. If I tell someone that I'm American, and they go on to ask me where I'm really from (implying that I'm not actually American), that's when there's a problem.Agreed.
The problem isn't that people are curious about someone's ethnicity; the problem is when they refuse to accept the answer that they're given. If I tell someone that I'm American, and they go on to ask me where I'm really from (implying that I'm not actually American), that's when there's a problem.
Quote from: What?What? on December 05, 2016, 03:00:08 pmQuote from: yirgacheffe on December 05, 2016, 01:59:12 pmThe problem isn't that people are curious about someone's ethnicity; the problem is when they refuse to accept the answer that they're given. If I tell someone that I'm American, and they go on to ask me where I'm really from (implying that I'm not actually American), that's when there's a problem.Agreed.Double agree. If you consider yourself X, then that is what you should answer. That you don't answer in the way that the other person wants is not your concern. Maybe you don't want to be rude and are evading the question.If someone asks me how much I make, I will not say that it's none of their business. I'd say something like I'm doing alright (financially speaking). If they ask again I might say something like I'm happy to have what I have, as many are not in a good a position as me. If they ask a third time, I may have reached my politeness threshold and speak to them like a child who doesn't know any better.
Quote from: sevenpm on December 05, 2016, 03:30:56 pmthis place is full of white guys who just can't accept that they lack experience in certain areas to make worthwhile opinions on certain topics. they think everything has to relate back to something they've experienced. stop making false equivalencies. despite what your upbringing has told you, you don't know everything and you don't get a say in everything. why the hell does a white american/canadian/whatever, think his or her opinion on what the Asian diaspora experience matters whatsoever? why do they think they can relate?you can't relate. your hubris is at insane levels to think your opinion needs to be expressed. your life doesn't have the same layers. just accept it and move the **** on.Who says relate? I'm happy when people ask me my background. Quarter Ukrainian, eighth Italian, Quarter Native Canadian and the rest is a smattering of the British Isles. I imagine it's annoying to be asked where you are "really from," but talking about ourselves and people being interested in you is a good thing.
Here's a basic reiteration of a recent foreigner I met: Dude: "Where are you from?" Me: "America. You?" Dude: "Oh, where?" Me: "[state]." Dude: "Oh, I don't know where that is." Me: "That's cool, a lot of people don't. So where are you from?" Dude: "Canada. [insert phrase in a foreign language I can't recognize]" Me: "What?" Dude: "[repeats phrase in foreign language]" Me: "Sorry... what?" Dude: "I thought you were [Asian ethnicity]." Me: "Oh, I don't speak [Asian language]..." (I honestly could not tell what language he was speaking at first, his accent was pretty heavy) Dude: "But you look [Asian]." Me: "...no. I don't speak [Asian language]." Dude: "[starts speaking in foreign language again]--" Friend of dude: "Dude! Leave her alone! She said she was American!"
Funny, I had almost exactly the same conversation with a drunk old guy in a pub in Ireland when he found out I lived in Korea. He kept trying to speak Korean (I think) and insisting I should know what he was talking about since I lived there. Still I guess according to 7pm as a white guy I don't have a right to talk about my experience, or it isn't as significant, or something.
Quote from: eggieguffer on December 05, 2016, 04:20:54 pmFunny, I had almost exactly the same conversation with a drunk old guy in a pub in Ireland when he found out I lived in Korea. He kept trying to speak Korean (I think) and insisting I should know what he was talking about since I lived there. Still I guess according to 7pm as a white guy I don't have a right to talk about my experience, or it isn't as significant, or something.Then I think you can understand some. (I actually think the dude I met was trying to speak Korean too... I think? Honestly difficult to discern) Now imagine that happening more frequently and from people who just look at you and assume as such without ever broaching the topic of you having lived there. Often before you even open your mouth. From completely sober people. It gets annoying and tiresome.
Quote from: Loki88 on December 05, 2016, 02:50:36 pmQuote from: yirj17 on December 05, 2016, 02:01:16 pmQuote from: Loki88 on December 05, 2016, 01:41:03 pmQuote from: JNM on December 05, 2016, 11:29:43 amQuote from: yirj17 on December 05, 2016, 10:54:48 amPeople are shite. Grown ass adults are shite. Foreigners pestering me "where are you from?" after I've already spoken enough to show an American midwestern accent and said I'M FROM THE USA. "Oh, but you look [insert Asian ethnicity here]." "Oh but where are you really from?" Cause apparently the default American is just a white person. Things like this make me more than content to remain on my island. Honestly, the last two weekends I have dealt with this rubbish. I often get asked, "Are you [European ethnicity]?" and have no hurt feelings whatsoever.This. People looking for fights take normal social interactions and turn them into some race relations microcosm. Instead of you know, just answering the question in the same way everyone else does.There was this white guy on my football team back in high school. Going around we asked it and everyone answered normally. He responded Canadian and refused to state his ancestry because he identified as Canadian. He was as much of a jackass as anyone of any other race that does the same thing. Just normal social interaction for North Americans. Not answering this question is akin to telling someone how horrible your day is when they ask how you're doing. No one actually cares.When I say I'm from America, I am answering "in the same way as everyone else does." When people press further, asking "where were you born?" I answer honestly and tell the city/state where I was born and raised. When someone presses further with "No, where are your parents from?" then it clicks that they're really asking "What's your ethnicity?" If they "don't care" then why don't they just drop it? Or make their initial question clearer? "What's your ancestry/ethnicity/background?" or "What are your roots?" There most certainly are people who are just genuinely interested in ancestry. I have no problem with that. But there are other people who seem to want to imply that I'm "not really American" even though we're supposed to be a "melting pot." Or better yet, the people who want to have "won" at guessing my ethnicity. I think you are mistaken. I'm a white guy from a town where most of the people are white. We ask each other where we are from all the time. People answered based on their ancestry. Obviously since most of us were of European decent we answered with those. Ofc, we had our Indian tailback who was a beast and answered with that. Same for my best bud who was born in Iraq. Saying you're from America is the equivalent of the guy I mentioned above saying he was Canadian. My thought process: No shit Sherlock. Now, where are you from?Being angry at the way the question is phrased is like being pissed about someone saying 'What's up?' That's just the way it's asked. As to you're point on not caring. I ask people how they're doing all the time. This is a secret but I genuinely don't care. The same is true of the above question. It's just normal social banter among peers. Getting angry at it is like getting angry when someone greets you.Also, wrt to the video. It was shot to draw attention to the 'issue.' But, when I see it I can't help but think of it as a caricature on someone with zero social skill refusing to answer a normal question.I think we're both mistaken. Our towns and upbringing are different. Where I grew up, everyone "white" got a pass and just called themselves American and nobody questioned it but when it came to me, it was nah, where you really from? I feel like in Canada/where you're from, people actually realize that everyone's lineage hails from somewhere, whereas in my upbringing people just liked pointing out that I was different. Whenever I returned the question, I just got, "Oh, I'm American." Even though most of them most likely had some European ancestry. The only phrasing I really take issue with is "What are you?" and generally only because it's typically accompanied with a tone of voice that doesn't imply a friendly question. Connotation is everything.
Quote from: yirj17 on December 05, 2016, 02:01:16 pmQuote from: Loki88 on December 05, 2016, 01:41:03 pmQuote from: JNM on December 05, 2016, 11:29:43 amQuote from: yirj17 on December 05, 2016, 10:54:48 amPeople are shite. Grown ass adults are shite. Foreigners pestering me "where are you from?" after I've already spoken enough to show an American midwestern accent and said I'M FROM THE USA. "Oh, but you look [insert Asian ethnicity here]." "Oh but where are you really from?" Cause apparently the default American is just a white person. Things like this make me more than content to remain on my island. Honestly, the last two weekends I have dealt with this rubbish. I often get asked, "Are you [European ethnicity]?" and have no hurt feelings whatsoever.This. People looking for fights take normal social interactions and turn them into some race relations microcosm. Instead of you know, just answering the question in the same way everyone else does.There was this white guy on my football team back in high school. Going around we asked it and everyone answered normally. He responded Canadian and refused to state his ancestry because he identified as Canadian. He was as much of a jackass as anyone of any other race that does the same thing. Just normal social interaction for North Americans. Not answering this question is akin to telling someone how horrible your day is when they ask how you're doing. No one actually cares.When I say I'm from America, I am answering "in the same way as everyone else does." When people press further, asking "where were you born?" I answer honestly and tell the city/state where I was born and raised. When someone presses further with "No, where are your parents from?" then it clicks that they're really asking "What's your ethnicity?" If they "don't care" then why don't they just drop it? Or make their initial question clearer? "What's your ancestry/ethnicity/background?" or "What are your roots?" There most certainly are people who are just genuinely interested in ancestry. I have no problem with that. But there are other people who seem to want to imply that I'm "not really American" even though we're supposed to be a "melting pot." Or better yet, the people who want to have "won" at guessing my ethnicity. I think you are mistaken. I'm a white guy from a town where most of the people are white. We ask each other where we are from all the time. People answered based on their ancestry. Obviously since most of us were of European decent we answered with those. Ofc, we had our Indian tailback who was a beast and answered with that. Same for my best bud who was born in Iraq. Saying you're from America is the equivalent of the guy I mentioned above saying he was Canadian. My thought process: No shit Sherlock. Now, where are you from?Being angry at the way the question is phrased is like being pissed about someone saying 'What's up?' That's just the way it's asked. As to you're point on not caring. I ask people how they're doing all the time. This is a secret but I genuinely don't care. The same is true of the above question. It's just normal social banter among peers. Getting angry at it is like getting angry when someone greets you.Also, wrt to the video. It was shot to draw attention to the 'issue.' But, when I see it I can't help but think of it as a caricature on someone with zero social skill refusing to answer a normal question.
Quote from: Loki88 on December 05, 2016, 01:41:03 pmQuote from: JNM on December 05, 2016, 11:29:43 amQuote from: yirj17 on December 05, 2016, 10:54:48 amPeople are shite. Grown ass adults are shite. Foreigners pestering me "where are you from?" after I've already spoken enough to show an American midwestern accent and said I'M FROM THE USA. "Oh, but you look [insert Asian ethnicity here]." "Oh but where are you really from?" Cause apparently the default American is just a white person. Things like this make me more than content to remain on my island. Honestly, the last two weekends I have dealt with this rubbish. I often get asked, "Are you [European ethnicity]?" and have no hurt feelings whatsoever.This. People looking for fights take normal social interactions and turn them into some race relations microcosm. Instead of you know, just answering the question in the same way everyone else does.There was this white guy on my football team back in high school. Going around we asked it and everyone answered normally. He responded Canadian and refused to state his ancestry because he identified as Canadian. He was as much of a jackass as anyone of any other race that does the same thing. Just normal social interaction for North Americans. Not answering this question is akin to telling someone how horrible your day is when they ask how you're doing. No one actually cares.When I say I'm from America, I am answering "in the same way as everyone else does." When people press further, asking "where were you born?" I answer honestly and tell the city/state where I was born and raised. When someone presses further with "No, where are your parents from?" then it clicks that they're really asking "What's your ethnicity?" If they "don't care" then why don't they just drop it? Or make their initial question clearer? "What's your ancestry/ethnicity/background?" or "What are your roots?" There most certainly are people who are just genuinely interested in ancestry. I have no problem with that. But there are other people who seem to want to imply that I'm "not really American" even though we're supposed to be a "melting pot." Or better yet, the people who want to have "won" at guessing my ethnicity.
Quote from: JNM on December 05, 2016, 11:29:43 amQuote from: yirj17 on December 05, 2016, 10:54:48 amPeople are shite. Grown ass adults are shite. Foreigners pestering me "where are you from?" after I've already spoken enough to show an American midwestern accent and said I'M FROM THE USA. "Oh, but you look [insert Asian ethnicity here]." "Oh but where are you really from?" Cause apparently the default American is just a white person. Things like this make me more than content to remain on my island. Honestly, the last two weekends I have dealt with this rubbish. I often get asked, "Are you [European ethnicity]?" and have no hurt feelings whatsoever.This. People looking for fights take normal social interactions and turn them into some race relations microcosm. Instead of you know, just answering the question in the same way everyone else does.There was this white guy on my football team back in high school. Going around we asked it and everyone answered normally. He responded Canadian and refused to state his ancestry because he identified as Canadian. He was as much of a jackass as anyone of any other race that does the same thing. Just normal social interaction for North Americans. Not answering this question is akin to telling someone how horrible your day is when they ask how you're doing. No one actually cares.
Quote from: yirj17 on December 05, 2016, 10:54:48 amPeople are shite. Grown ass adults are shite. Foreigners pestering me "where are you from?" after I've already spoken enough to show an American midwestern accent and said I'M FROM THE USA. "Oh, but you look [insert Asian ethnicity here]." "Oh but where are you really from?" Cause apparently the default American is just a white person. Things like this make me more than content to remain on my island. Honestly, the last two weekends I have dealt with this rubbish. I often get asked, "Are you [European ethnicity]?" and have no hurt feelings whatsoever.
People are shite. Grown ass adults are shite. Foreigners pestering me "where are you from?" after I've already spoken enough to show an American midwestern accent and said I'M FROM THE USA. "Oh, but you look [insert Asian ethnicity here]." "Oh but where are you really from?" Cause apparently the default American is just a white person. Things like this make me more than content to remain on my island. Honestly, the last two weekends I have dealt with this rubbish.
Quote from: yirj17 on December 05, 2016, 04:38:07 pmQuote from: eggieguffer on December 05, 2016, 04:20:54 pmFunny, I had almost exactly the same conversation with a drunk old guy in a pub in Ireland when he found out I lived in Korea. He kept trying to speak Korean (I think) and insisting I should know what he was talking about since I lived there. Still I guess according to 7pm as a white guy I don't have a right to talk about my experience, or it isn't as significant, or something.Then I think you can understand some. (I actually think the dude I met was trying to speak Korean too... I think? Honestly difficult to discern) Now imagine that happening more frequently and from people who just look at you and assume as such without ever broaching the topic of you having lived there. Often before you even open your mouth. From completely sober people. It gets annoying and tiresome.Yep, anything that makes you stand out from the crowd can potentially be annoying and tiresome when people try to start conversations. Your job, your name, your accent, your nationality, your stature, where you live etc.. etc.. if you you don't give bog standard replies, people often want to find out more and are usually pretty ignorant.
Quote from: eggieguffer on December 05, 2016, 04:45:49 pmQuote from: yirj17 on December 05, 2016, 04:38:07 pmQuote from: eggieguffer on December 05, 2016, 04:20:54 pmFunny, I had almost exactly the same conversation with a drunk old guy in a pub in Ireland when he found out I lived in Korea. He kept trying to speak Korean (I think) and insisting I should know what he was talking about since I lived there. Still I guess according to 7pm as a white guy I don't have a right to talk about my experience, or it isn't as significant, or something.Then I think you can understand some. (I actually think the dude I met was trying to speak Korean too... I think? Honestly difficult to discern) Now imagine that happening more frequently and from people who just look at you and assume as such without ever broaching the topic of you having lived there. Often before you even open your mouth. From completely sober people. It gets annoying and tiresome.Yep, anything that makes you stand out from the crowd can potentially be annoying and tiresome when people try to start conversations. Your job, your name, your accent, your nationality, your stature, where you live etc.. etc.. if you you don't give bog standard replies, people often want to find out more and are usually pretty ignorant. Yeah, and I grew up in a town that was pretty vanilla so unfortunately I stood out just because of my Asian appearance. And my college town was kinda... redneck at its core, despite the college population. Honestly, one of the reasons I enjoy living here in Korea is that I "blend in" and strangers generally don't go out of their way to bother me since I no longer look "different." I'm a pretty introverted person as it is so people coming up to me and asking a bunch of questions just gets awkward.
Quote from: sevenpm on December 05, 2016, 03:30:56 pmthis place is full of white guys who just can't accept that they lack experience in certain areas to make worthwhile opinions on certain topics. they think everything has to relate back to something they've experienced. stop making false equivalencies. despite what your upbringing has told you, you don't know everything and you don't get a say in everything. why the hell does a white american/canadian/whatever, think his or her opinion on what the Asian diaspora experience matters whatsoever? why do they think they can relate?you can't relate. your hubris is at insane levels to think your opinion needs to be expressed. your life doesn't have the same layers. just accept it and move the **** on.I'm a white man from England, i have lost count of how many times i get called an American from Koreans of all ages: 미국 사람!. They don't ask my nationality, they simply announce their guesses to me. Surely that is relating to the topic at hand. As for the issue of accents (brought up a few pages back) i cannot tell a yank from a Canuck, or an Oz from a Kiwi. Most people of the colonies can tell the accents of the various home nations apart, so don't give me the: "I spoke with a midwest accent" because most people outside Yankeeland can tell one accent from another.So, if you have had a hard day, park up your high horse and step down.
Quote from: yirj17 on December 05, 2016, 04:55:51 pmQuote from: eggieguffer on December 05, 2016, 04:45:49 pmQuote from: yirj17 on December 05, 2016, 04:38:07 pmQuote from: eggieguffer on December 05, 2016, 04:20:54 pmFunny, I had almost exactly the same conversation with a drunk old guy in a pub in Ireland when he found out I lived in Korea. He kept trying to speak Korean (I think) and insisting I should know what he was talking about since I lived there. Still I guess according to 7pm as a white guy I don't have a right to talk about my experience, or it isn't as significant, or something.Then I think you can understand some. (I actually think the dude I met was trying to speak Korean too... I think? Honestly difficult to discern) Now imagine that happening more frequently and from people who just look at you and assume as such without ever broaching the topic of you having lived there. Often before you even open your mouth. From completely sober people. It gets annoying and tiresome.Yep, anything that makes you stand out from the crowd can potentially be annoying and tiresome when people try to start conversations. Your job, your name, your accent, your nationality, your stature, where you live etc.. etc.. if you you don't give bog standard replies, people often want to find out more and are usually pretty ignorant. Yeah, and I grew up in a town that was pretty vanilla so unfortunately I stood out just because of my Asian appearance. And my college town was kinda... redneck at its core, despite the college population. Honestly, one of the reasons I enjoy living here in Korea is that I "blend in" and strangers generally don't go out of their way to bother me since I no longer look "different." I'm a pretty introverted person as it is so people coming up to me and asking a bunch of questions just gets awkward.Interesting. So did I actually. The non-white population in my town included like 5 black families, couple mixed (one of them being my cousin who is now in pro football), one Indian and one Iraqi. People were generally pretty chill about it.The only time things got bad was after 9-11. People were pricks to my buddy mentioned previously. Otoh, my town was definitely not redneck. People were more or less all educated and decently well off.
IMO, I would give kids and maybe even adults a pass on the nk/sk thing. I'd 100 per cent give everyone a pass on the Japanese, Chinese, Korean guessing ability.As a Canadian my grasp of Midwest is not strong.You were in the right with my countryman. Not always living up to our reputation, unfortunately.