RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

And if you look in this topic, you will see a lot of white males who like to argue.

No we don't

If I really wanted an argument, I would tell a Korean friend that he/she must have had some Mongol, Chinese, or Japanese heritage.

this place is full of white guys who just can't accept that they lack experience in certain areas to make worthwhile opinions on certain topics. they think everything has to relate back to something they've experienced. stop making false equivalencies. despite what your upbringing has told you, you don't know everything and you don't get a say in everything.


why the hell does a white american/canadian/whatever, think his or her opinion on what the Asian diaspora experience matters whatsoever?  why do they think they can relate?


you can't relate. your hubris is at insane levels to think your opinion needs to be expressed. your life doesn't have the same layers. just accept it and move the **** on.

Who says relate? I'm happy when people ask me my background. Quarter Ukrainian, eighth Italian, Quarter Native Canadian and the rest is a smattering of the British Isles.

I imagine it's annoying to be asked where you are "really from," but talking about ourselves and people being interested in you is a good thing.

The problem isn't that people are curious about someone's ethnicity; the problem is when they refuse to accept the answer that they're given. If I tell someone that I'm American, and they go on to ask me where I'm really from (implying that I'm not actually American), that's when there's a problem.

Agreed.

Double agree. If you consider yourself X, then that is what you should answer. That you don't answer in the way that the other person wants is not your concern. Maybe you don't want to be rude and are evading the question.

If someone asks me how much I make, I will not say that it's none of their business. I'd say something like I'm doing alright (financially speaking). If they ask again I might say something like I'm happy to have what I have, as many are not in a good a position as me. If they ask a third time, I may have reached my politeness threshold and speak to them like a child who doesn't know any better.

Context is important. Example: college. When people ask where you're from, at my school the typical answer was [city/town/other state]. There are those who press further. If people don't care about the answer, why do some ask additional questions? If a person asks nicely (however awkwardly it may be phrased, talking vocal tone here), then I don't mind continuing the conversation in that vein. If a person asks aggressively, I feel disinclined to continue conversing. Thing is, a good lot of the people who want to know where I'm "really from" don't care to go beyond getting an answer that isn't in America and are generally the same type of people who respond "I'm 'just' American."

Another context: Korea. When people ask where you're from, do you say [European country] or do you say [Canada/America/wherever]? I respond that I'm from America because that's where I was born and raised. Most people accept this response, others don't. There are people who aggressively pursue a different answer.

I am not writing off anyone who doesn't know "PC" language. The phrase "Where are you from?" can easily be said in a nice way but can also be said in a less than nice way.

As for caucasian people who experience similar things when in countries other than 'murica/Canada... well, welcome to empathy.

The problem isn't that people are curious about someone's ethnicity; the problem is when they refuse to accept the answer that they're given. If I tell someone that I'm American, and they go on to ask me where I'm really from (implying that I'm not actually American), that's when there's a problem.

Agreed.

Double agree. If you consider yourself X, then that is what you should answer. That you don't answer in the way that the other person wants is not your concern. Maybe you don't want to be rude and are evading the question.

If someone asks me how much I make, I will not say that it's none of their business. I'd say something like I'm doing alright (financially speaking). If they ask again I might say something like I'm happy to have what I have, as many are not in a good a position as me. If they ask a third time, I may have reached my politeness threshold and speak to them like a child who doesn't know any better.

Yes. I don't know why people think I am obligated to answer in a certain way or that my chosen response is somehow invalid.

this place is full of white guys who just can't accept that they lack experience in certain areas to make worthwhile opinions on certain topics. they think everything has to relate back to something they've experienced. stop making false equivalencies. despite what your upbringing has told you, you don't know everything and you don't get a say in everything.


why the hell does a white american/canadian/whatever, think his or her opinion on what the Asian diaspora experience matters whatsoever?  why do they think they can relate?


you can't relate. your hubris is at insane levels to think your opinion needs to be expressed. your life doesn't have the same layers. just accept it and move the **** on.

Who says relate? I'm happy when people ask me my background. Quarter Ukrainian, eighth Italian, Quarter Native Canadian and the rest is a smattering of the British Isles.

I imagine it's annoying to be asked where you are "really from," but talking about ourselves and people being interested in you is a good thing.

Europe is much more organized in terms of countries and ethnicity(?). Would it be wrong to answer the question as .25 Han, .125 Sioux, .125 Kubu, .0625 Bantu, .125 Metis, and .3125 Tupi? I imagine there would be a follow-up question.

If I person's response was something along the lines of, "oh, so basically white." Would that be rude?

For the record I consider Italian, white. Not universal I'm sure, seeing as many look through a European lens.

Here's a basic reiteration of a recent foreigner I met:

Dude: "Where are you from?"
Me: "America. You?"
Dude: "Oh, where?"
Me: "[state]."
Dude: "Oh, I don't know where that is."
Me: "That's cool, a lot of people don't. So where are you from?"
Dude: "Canada. [insert phrase in a foreign language I can't recognize]"
Me: "What?"
Dude: "[repeats phrase in foreign language]"
Me: "Sorry... what?"
Dude: "I thought you were [Asian ethnicity]."
Me: "Oh, I don't speak [Asian language]..." (I honestly could not tell what language he was speaking at first, his accent was pretty heavy)
Dude: "But you look [Asian]."
Me: "...no. I don't speak [Asian language]."
Dude: "[starts speaking in foreign language again]--"
Friend of dude: "Dude! Leave her alone! She said she was American!"

Here's a basic reiteration of a recent foreigner I met:

Dude: "Where are you from?"
Me: "America. You?"
Dude: "Oh, where?"
Me: "[state]."
Dude: "Oh, I don't know where that is."
Me: "That's cool, a lot of people don't. So where are you from?"
Dude: "Canada. [insert phrase in a foreign language I can't recognize]"
Me: "What?"
Dude: "[repeats phrase in foreign language]"
Me: "Sorry... what?"
Dude: "I thought you were [Asian ethnicity]."
Me: "Oh, I don't speak [Asian language]..." (I honestly could not tell what language he was speaking at first, his accent was pretty heavy)
Dude: "But you look [Asian]."
Me: "...no. I don't speak [Asian language]."
Dude: "[starts speaking in foreign language again]--"
Friend of dude: "Dude! Leave her alone! She said she was American!"

Is this why you don't pop into McClutchie's anymore?

Here's a basic reiteration of a recent foreigner I met:

Dude: "Where are you from?"
Me: "America. You?"
Dude: "Oh, where?"
Me: "[state]."
Dude: "Oh, I don't know where that is."
Me: "That's cool, a lot of people don't. So where are you from?"
Dude: "Canada. [insert phrase in a foreign language I can't recognize]"
Me: "What?"
Dude: "[repeats phrase in foreign language]"
Me: "Sorry... what?"
Dude: "I thought you were [Asian ethnicity]."
Me: "Oh, I don't speak [Asian language]..." (I honestly could not tell what language he was speaking at first, his accent was pretty heavy)
Dude: "But you look [Asian]."
Me: "...no. I don't speak [Asian language]."
Dude: "[starts speaking in foreign language again]--"
Friend of dude: "Dude! Leave her alone! She said she was American!"

That guy sounds like a total dunce.

I have never once heard anyone from America, when asked that question, automatically assume that the person must have meant heritage and immediately answer Germany, France, or where ever. That just seems silly. I can understand how it would be annoying to have someone question where you are "really" from.

Funny, I had almost exactly the same conversation with a drunk old guy in a pub in Ireland when he found out I lived in Korea. He kept trying to speak Korean (I think) and insisting I should know what he was talking about since I lived there.

Still I guess according to 7pm as a white guy I don't have a right to talk about my experience, or it isn't as significant, or something.

Funny, I had almost exactly the same conversation with a drunk old guy in a pub in Ireland when he found out I lived in Korea. He kept trying to speak Korean (I think) and insisting I should know what he was talking about since I lived there.

Still I guess according to 7pm as a white guy I don't have a right to talk about my experience, or it isn't as significant, or something.

Then I think you can understand some. (I actually think the dude I met was trying to speak Korean too... I think? Honestly difficult to discern) Now imagine that happening more frequently and from people who just look at you and assume as such without ever broaching the topic of you having lived there. Often before you even open your mouth. From completely sober people. It gets annoying and tiresome.

Funny, I had almost exactly the same conversation with a drunk old guy in a pub in Ireland when he found out I lived in Korea. He kept trying to speak Korean (I think) and insisting I should know what he was talking about since I lived there.

Still I guess according to 7pm as a white guy I don't have a right to talk about my experience, or it isn't as significant, or something.

Then I think you can understand some. (I actually think the dude I met was trying to speak Korean too... I think? Honestly difficult to discern) Now imagine that happening more frequently and from people who just look at you and assume as such without ever broaching the topic of you having lived there. Often before you even open your mouth. From completely sober people. It gets annoying and tiresome.

Yep, anything that makes you stand out from the crowd can potentially be annoying and tiresome when people try to start conversations. Your job, your name, your accent, your nationality, your stature, where you live etc.. etc.. if you you don't give bog standard replies, people often want to find out more and are usually pretty ignorant.

People are shite. Grown ass adults are shite. Foreigners pestering me "where are you from?" after I've already spoken enough to show an American midwestern accent and said I'M FROM THE USA. "Oh, but you look [insert Asian ethnicity here]." "Oh but where are you really from?" Cause apparently the default American is just a white person.

Things like this make me more than content to remain on my island. Honestly, the last two weekends I have dealt with this rubbish. 

I often get asked, "Are you [European ethnicity]?"  and have no hurt feelings whatsoever.

This. People looking for fights take normal social interactions and turn them into some race relations microcosm. Instead of you know, just answering the question in the same way everyone else does.

There was this white guy on my football team back in high school. Going around we asked it and everyone answered normally. He responded Canadian and refused to state his ancestry because he identified as Canadian.

He was as much of a jackass as anyone of any other race that does the same thing.

Just normal social interaction for North Americans. Not answering this question is akin to telling someone how horrible your day is when they ask how you're doing. No one actually cares.

When I say I'm from America, I am answering "in the same way as everyone else does." When people press further, asking "where were you born?" I answer honestly and tell the city/state where I was born and raised. When someone presses further with "No, where are your parents from?" then it clicks that they're really asking "What's your ethnicity?"

If they "don't care" then why don't they just drop it? Or make their initial question clearer? "What's your ancestry/ethnicity/background?" or "What are your roots?"

There most certainly are people who are just genuinely interested in ancestry. I have no problem with that. But there are other people who seem to want to imply that I'm "not really American" even though we're supposed to be a "melting pot." Or better yet, the people who want to have "won" at guessing my ethnicity. 

I think you are mistaken. I'm a white guy from a town where most of the people are white. We ask each other where we are from all the time. People answered based on their ancestry. Obviously since most of us were of European decent we answered with those. Ofc, we had our Indian tailback who was a beast and answered with that. Same for my best bud who was born in Iraq.

Saying you're from America is the equivalent of the guy I mentioned above saying he was Canadian.

My thought process: No shit Sherlock. Now, where are you from?

Being angry at the way the question is phrased is like being pissed about someone saying 'What's up?' That's just the way it's asked.

As to you're point on not caring. I ask people how they're doing all the time. This is a secret but I genuinely don't care. The same is true of the above question. It's just normal social banter among peers. Getting angry at it is like getting angry when someone greets you.

Also, wrt to the video. It was shot to draw attention to the 'issue.' But, when I see it I can't help but think of it as a caricature on someone with zero social skill refusing to answer a normal question.

I think we're both mistaken. Our towns and upbringing are different.

Where I grew up, everyone "white" got a pass and just called themselves American and nobody questioned it but when it came to me, it was nah, where you really from? I feel like in Canada/where you're from, people actually realize that everyone's lineage hails from somewhere, whereas in my upbringing people just liked pointing out that I was different. Whenever I returned the question, I just got, "Oh, I'm American." Even though most of them most likely had some European ancestry.

The only phrasing I really take issue with is "What are you?" and generally only because it's typically accompanied with a tone of voice that doesn't imply a friendly question.

Connotation is everything.

Yes, this is true. I've never personally answered the question 'Where are you from?' with Canada. Maybe my hometown but most of the time I stated France despite having been separated from it by centuries. (The answer being dependent upon the context of the question.)

The only person I've ever encountered who actually answered Canada (of any race) was that one dip shit who as I said was a jackass.

this place is full of white guys who just can't accept that they lack experience in certain areas to make worthwhile opinions on certain topics. they think everything has to relate back to something they've experienced. stop making false equivalencies. despite what your upbringing has told you, you don't know everything and you don't get a say in everything.


why the hell does a white american/canadian/whatever, think his or her opinion on what the Asian diaspora experience matters whatsoever?  why do they think they can relate?


you can't relate. your hubris is at insane levels to think your opinion needs to be expressed. your life doesn't have the same layers. just accept it and move the **** on.

Who says relate? I'm happy when people ask me my background. Quarter Ukrainian, eighth Italian, Quarter Native Canadian and the rest is a smattering of the British Isles.

I imagine it's annoying to be asked where you are "really from," but talking about ourselves and people being interested in you is a good thing.

This is actually what I was referring to when mention talking about 'Where are you from?' It's not surprising as CO2 and I grew up in the same place-ish and I'm guessing around the same time.

Funny, I had almost exactly the same conversation with a drunk old guy in a pub in Ireland when he found out I lived in Korea. He kept trying to speak Korean (I think) and insisting I should know what he was talking about since I lived there.

Still I guess according to 7pm as a white guy I don't have a right to talk about my experience, or it isn't as significant, or something.

Then I think you can understand some. (I actually think the dude I met was trying to speak Korean too... I think? Honestly difficult to discern) Now imagine that happening more frequently and from people who just look at you and assume as such without ever broaching the topic of you having lived there. Often before you even open your mouth. From completely sober people. It gets annoying and tiresome.

Yep, anything that makes you stand out from the crowd can potentially be annoying and tiresome when people try to start conversations. Your job, your name, your accent, your nationality, your stature, where you live etc.. etc.. if you you don't give bog standard replies, people often want to find out more and are usually pretty ignorant.

Yeah, and I grew up in a town that was pretty vanilla so unfortunately I stood out just because of my Asian appearance. And my college town was kinda... redneck at its core, despite the college population. Honestly, one of the reasons I enjoy living here in Korea is that I "blend in" and strangers generally don't go out of their way to bother me since I no longer look "different." I'm a pretty introverted person as it is so people coming up to me and asking a bunch of questions just gets awkward.

Funny, I had almost exactly the same conversation with a drunk old guy in a pub in Ireland when he found out I lived in Korea. He kept trying to speak Korean (I think) and insisting I should know what he was talking about since I lived there.

Still I guess according to 7pm as a white guy I don't have a right to talk about my experience, or it isn't as significant, or something.

Then I think you can understand some. (I actually think the dude I met was trying to speak Korean too... I think? Honestly difficult to discern) Now imagine that happening more frequently and from people who just look at you and assume as such without ever broaching the topic of you having lived there. Often before you even open your mouth. From completely sober people. It gets annoying and tiresome.

Yep, anything that makes you stand out from the crowd can potentially be annoying and tiresome when people try to start conversations. Your job, your name, your accent, your nationality, your stature, where you live etc.. etc.. if you you don't give bog standard replies, people often want to find out more and are usually pretty ignorant.

Yeah, and I grew up in a town that was pretty vanilla so unfortunately I stood out just because of my Asian appearance. And my college town was kinda... redneck at its core, despite the college population. Honestly, one of the reasons I enjoy living here in Korea is that I "blend in" and strangers generally don't go out of their way to bother me since I no longer look "different." I'm a pretty introverted person as it is so people coming up to me and asking a bunch of questions just gets awkward.

Interesting. So did I actually. The non-white population in my town included like 5 black families, couple mixed (one of them being my cousin who is now in pro football), one Indian and one Iraqi. People were generally pretty chill about it.

The only time things got bad was after 9-11. People were pricks to my buddy mentioned previously.

Otoh, my town was definitely not redneck. People were more or less all educated and decently well off.

this place is full of white guys who just can't accept that they lack experience in certain areas to make worthwhile opinions on certain topics. they think everything has to relate back to something they've experienced. stop making false equivalencies. despite what your upbringing has told you, you don't know everything and you don't get a say in everything.


why the hell does a white american/canadian/whatever, think his or her opinion on what the Asian diaspora experience matters whatsoever?  why do they think they can relate?


you can't relate. your hubris is at insane levels to think your opinion needs to be expressed. your life doesn't have the same layers. just accept it and move the **** on.

I'm a white man from England, i have lost count of how many times i get called an American from Koreans of all ages: 미국 사람!.  They don't ask my nationality, they simply announce their guesses to me. 

Surely that is relating to the topic at hand. 

As for the issue of accents (brought up a few pages back)  i cannot tell a yank from a Canuck, or an Oz from a Kiwi.  Most people of the colonies can tell the accents of the various home nations apart, so don't give me the: "I spoke with a midwest accent" because most people outside Yankeeland can tell one accent from another.

So, if you have had a hard day, park up your high horse and step down.

That has happened to me many a times. Let's play the ole guessing game of where ye hail from!

I just mentioned midwest accent because the person interrogating me was Canadian--and of the Canadians I've met, our accents are pretty similar and I've often even been mistaken for a Canadian. At any rate, I definitely don't have any kind of "Asian accent" but still get disbelief from some people when I say I'm American.

Funny, I had almost exactly the same conversation with a drunk old guy in a pub in Ireland when he found out I lived in Korea. He kept trying to speak Korean (I think) and insisting I should know what he was talking about since I lived there.

Still I guess according to 7pm as a white guy I don't have a right to talk about my experience, or it isn't as significant, or something.

Then I think you can understand some. (I actually think the dude I met was trying to speak Korean too... I think? Honestly difficult to discern) Now imagine that happening more frequently and from people who just look at you and assume as such without ever broaching the topic of you having lived there. Often before you even open your mouth. From completely sober people. It gets annoying and tiresome.

Yep, anything that makes you stand out from the crowd can potentially be annoying and tiresome when people try to start conversations. Your job, your name, your accent, your nationality, your stature, where you live etc.. etc.. if you you don't give bog standard replies, people often want to find out more and are usually pretty ignorant.

Yeah, and I grew up in a town that was pretty vanilla so unfortunately I stood out just because of my Asian appearance. And my college town was kinda... redneck at its core, despite the college population. Honestly, one of the reasons I enjoy living here in Korea is that I "blend in" and strangers generally don't go out of their way to bother me since I no longer look "different." I'm a pretty introverted person as it is so people coming up to me and asking a bunch of questions just gets awkward.

Interesting. So did I actually. The non-white population in my town included like 5 black families, couple mixed (one of them being my cousin who is now in pro football), one Indian and one Iraqi. People were generally pretty chill about it.

The only time things got bad was after 9-11. People were pricks to my buddy mentioned previously.

Otoh, my town was definitely not redneck. People were more or less all educated and decently well off.

Ha-- when I was growing up, kids generally always assumed I was either Chinese or Japanese. None of them knew Korea existed. Then in middle school North Korea did something newsworthy and everyone was asking me if I was north korean. That's like... akin to asking someone if he's east German or west German?? 

IMO, I would give kids and maybe even adults a pass on the nk/sk thing. I'd 100 per cent give everyone a pass on the Japanese, Chinese, Korean guessing ability.

As a Canadian my grasp of Midwest is not strong.

You were in the right with my countryman. Not always living up to our reputation, unfortunately.