RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

Japan has offered to take it to a neutral international court of arbitration and to honor the results of the hearing whatever they end up being, but Korea refused. I kinda suspect many Koreans are subconsciously happier having it as a contentious issue to hate Japan over than they'd be if Japan actually just gave it to them.

Really? Ain't that some s**t.

Yup. Three times, no less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liancourt_Rocks_dispute#Proposal_to_settle_before_ICJ_rejected

Do Japanese folks even visit the Liancourt Rocks or is it just Koreans who go to carpet the surface with flags?

i really think korea DOESN'T want the islands to be declared theirs. if the islands are declared korean territory by the International Court of Justice or whatever it's called, they lose a MASSIVE political tool that they use to indoctrinate nationalism and anti-japanese sentiment into their population.

i've read about korea's claim to the islands, their evidence is actually pretty convincing. but they still don't want it taken to arbitration.

of course there are those mineral deposits under the rocks, but with the current impasse no-one is able to access them. so think about that for a minute. using the rocks as a political tool is more important to the korean government than those minerals.

우리말 does just mean Korean. In class when I ask "and how do we say ____ in Korean?" my coteacher will always translate as 우리말로 어떻게 말해요?

Anyways, on the concept of lack of empathy: completely. I would never have said to any of my foreign language teachers that I hated their language. "I don't like English" ok. "I don't like learning English" Even better. "I'm not good at English" pure honesty! I would accept any of this much more from a kid than from a coworker though. The kids have to study English. The coworkers? If they don't like English they can just not talk to me.

Actually, a couple months ago I probably ranted about this. My kids are SO shocked whenever I say anything in Korean, or indicate that when I ask them to translate something (to ensure they understand the meaning) I actually know enough Korean to confirm if the translation is accurate, and yet, there have been times when they yell at me "Teacher!! No English!! Speak Korean!!" because they can't understand/aren't paying attention to my super simple instructions and feel frustrated. As if I don't wish I was magically fluent as well!

Last weekend when I was out with my dancing friends (all Korean) one of the instructors, who speaks English really well, got on my case. I speak as much Korean as I can with them but after an hour or two I hit a wall in terms of ability and revert completely back to English. He tried to berate me, saying "Moonbrie, we all try so hard for you to speak English, you need to speak Korean with us!!!" I said to him "How long have you learned English for? Ten years? More? I took Korean for only two years, and I speak as much Korean as I can. You know how hard it is to learn English, it's just as hard for me to learn Korean"

The idea like we should be able to learn Korean in a month just kills be because they all struggle with English and know how hard it is. I don't know why empathy is so lacking in both children and adults here.

i really think korea DOESN'T want the islands to be declared theirs. if the islands are declared korean territory by the International Court of Justice or whatever it's called, they lose a MASSIVE political tool that they use to indoctrinate nationalism and anti-japanese sentiment into their population.

i've read about korea's claim to the islands, their evidence is actually pretty convincing. but they still don't want it taken to arbitration.

of course there are those mineral deposits under the rocks, but with the current impasse no-one is able to access them. so think about that for a minute. using the rocks as a political tool is more important to the korean government than those minerals.

Mr. Tim feels the same way

I kinda suspect many Koreans are subconsciously happier having it as a contentious issue to hate Japan over than they'd be if Japan actually just gave it to them.

@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.

@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.

I think everyone has a certain amount of "base English" inside of them. They grow up watching American movies, British movies, and English slang. There's English on signs everywhere. It's the lingua franca for a reason.

Guess how much Korean I knew prior to coming? Ssibal, Annyeong and Hajima. These were all speaking, too, I didn't know how to read hangeul. And why would I?

This doesn't mean that one is better than the other, that's silly. But the world, as a whole, has an "English Experience" in their lives, big or small. Very, very few people have a "Korean Experience" while doing their Masters in Psychology in Stuttgart. It simply doesn't happen.

@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.

I've had conversations like this. "Korean is so easy! English doesn't make sense!" I find myself having to explain the differences that make English difficult for them also make Korean difficult for us.

On the topic of learning Korean, I was thinking about that earlier with regards to the recent discussion about what native English speakers can offer that Korean teachers cant and how we're all going to be replaced by Koreans.

It had me wondering what Koreans might say if you were to ask them what they think would be better: Learning Korean from Koreans, or learning Korean from non-Koreans. I'm reasonably certain that they'd agree that someone learning Korean would be better off with at least one native speaker to learn from, even if his or her other teachers are non-native speakers, than he would be if none of his teachers were native speakers.

The question then would become would they make the connection that having an NET as part of a student's English education is a good thing, rather than moving towards removing them completely?

I usually just stick with the "this is how long you've studied English, this is how long I've studied Korean" and after repeating myself once or twice they get it. I don't try to explain how their ~beloved language~ could be difficult haha

I can see where you went wrong there.

Probably Annyeong, hajima and then ssibal, would have been a better order.

Hello! Don't touch me, f*ckface.

r/whatcouldgowrong

I've experienced this as well. More than a few Koreans have said to me, "Why aren't you fluent in Korean yet? English is hard; Korean is easy." Usually this was said to me in Korean rather than in English. As I became more advanced in my Korean studies, I could increasingly understand what locals were saying to me.

Here's a good response- "Korean was easy for you because kids can more quickly pick up correct pronunciation and correct grammar. Korean has an objectively large number of sounds and an objectively large number of grammar points. Learning a language as an adult is really tough." Figure out how to say that in Korean.

If someone tells you Korean is the most scientific language and you're a fool for not being fluent, explain the grammar is tough, as it hearing and replicating the many sounds of the language.

I can see where you went wrong there.

Probably Annyeong, hajima and then ssibal, would have been a better order.

Hello! Don't touch me, f*ckface.

r/whatcouldgowrong

 

I've experienced this as well. 

If someone tells you Korean is the most scientific language and you're a fool for not being fluent, explain the grammar is tough, as it hearing and replicating the many sounds of the language.

I think Korean is pretty intuitive and reasonable, but that doesn't mean there isn't still a shit ton of stuff to learn and internalize. I still always ask ~ㄹ수있어요? for permission even though I know it's weird because I'm used to saying it more than ~도괜잖아요?

Like even if all the ways you can modify verbs and nouns are simple, you still have to remember ALL OF THEM

@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.

Also, if someone's been here more than a year and can't read Korean (in terms of at least being able to sound things out, not necessarily understanding it) and can't string together a few basic sentences and get a handle on basic pronunciation, I can 100% understand Koreans feeling irritated towards said person.

Like, Korean is mad hard to learn. But... getting a grasp of some basics is not hard. At all. And reading is jokes easy.

And then having a grasp of the basics tends to only raise some people's expectations. Like, oh you only know how to say "blah blah blah and blah?" Why don't you learn Korean?? With those kinds of people though, you can probably never win. On the other side of the coin, you also get people who are overly impressed if you can say "hello" or super basic things.

But also, agreed. The alphabet itself and just reading it aren't difficult unless you perhaps have trouble learning languages to begin with.

I just don't know what I'm reading unless there's vocabulary I already recognize in there. Ha

@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.

Also, if someone's been here more than a year and can't read Korean (in terms of at least being able to sound things out, not necessarily understanding it) and can't string together a few basic sentences and get a handle on basic pronunciation, I can 100% understand Koreans feeling irritated towards said person.

Like, Korean is mad hard to learn. But... getting a grasp of some basics is not hard. At all. And reading is jokes easy.

And then having a grasp of the basics tends to only raise some people's expectations. Like, oh you only know how to say "blah blah blah and blah?" Why don't you learn Korean?? With those kinds of people though, you can probably never win. On the other side of the coin, you also get people who are overly impressed if you can say "hello" or super basic things.

But also, agreed. The alphabet itself and just reading it aren't difficult unless you perhaps have trouble learning languages to begin with.

I just don't know what I'm reading unless there's vocabulary I already recognize in there. Ha

My problem is that my speaking is 100 times better than my listening. But this is the problem with any 2nd language. I know every single word that I can speak in Korean (DUH!).

Listening? Well, I'm only going to know a few words. So yeah, I can say, 주말 뭐하고 싶으세요? But as soon as you start to really lay into how you're going to ponder the intricacies of calculus with your aunt (and not your aunt your other aunt! You know, your mom's sister, not your dad's sister! Yes, for those that don't know, there are two separate words for these two individuals) , I'M GONE! 

@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.

Also, if someone's been here more than a year and can't read Korean (in terms of at least being able to sound things out, not necessarily understanding it) and can't string together a few basic sentences and get a handle on basic pronunciation, I can 100% understand Koreans feeling irritated towards said person.

Like, Korean is mad hard to learn. But... getting a grasp of some basics is not hard. At all. And reading is jokes easy.

And then having a grasp of the basics tends to only raise some people's expectations. Like, oh you only know how to say "blah blah blah and blah?" Why don't you learn Korean?? With those kinds of people though, you can probably never win. On the other side of the coin, you also get people who are overly impressed if you can say "hello" or super basic things.

But also, agreed. The alphabet itself and just reading it aren't difficult unless you perhaps have trouble learning languages to begin with.

I just don't know what I'm reading unless there's vocabulary I already recognize in there. Ha

My problem is that my speaking is 100 times better than my listening. But this is the problem with any 2nd language. I know every single word that I can speak in Korean (DUH!).

Listening? Well, I'm only going to know a few words. So yeah, I can say, 주말 뭐하고 싶으세요? But as soon as you start to really lay into how you're going to ponder the intricacies of calculus with your aunt (and not your aunt your other aunt! You know, your mom's sister, not your dad's sister! Yes, for those that don't know, there are two separate words for these two individuals) , I'M GONE!

Haha really? I thought usually it was the other way around - listening is better than speaking. It is for me at least. When I hear the words or grammar I'm like oh yeah, this means that, but when trying to remember it to say it... uh... lol

I only just remembered how you actually say "this is better than that" because I'm teaching it and when I asked my students to say it in Korean I was like oh right, that is how you say it

I've been struggling to remember it whenever I want to say something to that extent in conversation for a while lol

If someone tells you Korean is the most scientific language and you're a fool for not being fluent, explain the grammar is tough, as it hearing and replicating the many sounds of the language.

I proceed to lecture them on the meaning of scientific. Then they never talk to me again.

Win, win really.

@Moonbrie. There are definitely some Koreans who seem to think it's easy to learn Korean and that we should magically become fluent after a ridiculously brief amount of time.

I think the nicer ones mean that they think it's easier for foreigners to learn Korean than for them to learn English. I think. Some of the ones whom I tell "Korean is difficult" (in Korean), seem to get it. However I think a goodly number genuinely have no idea that Korean is one of the harder languages to learn-- especially for those with English as their L1.

Also, if someone's been here more than a year and can't read Korean (in terms of at least being able to sound things out, not necessarily understanding it) and can't string together a few basic sentences and get a handle on basic pronunciation, I can 100% understand Koreans feeling irritated towards said person.

Like, Korean is mad hard to learn. But... getting a grasp of some basics is not hard. At all. And reading is jokes easy.

And then having a grasp of the basics tends to only raise some people's expectations. Like, oh you only know how to say "blah blah blah and blah?" Why don't you learn Korean?? With those kinds of people though, you can probably never win. On the other side of the coin, you also get people who are overly impressed if you can say "hello" or super basic things.

But also, agreed. The alphabet itself and just reading it aren't difficult unless you perhaps have trouble learning languages to begin with.

I just don't know what I'm reading unless there's vocabulary I already recognize in there. Ha

My problem is that my speaking is 100 times better than my listening. But this is the problem with any 2nd language. I know every single word that I can speak in Korean (DUH!).

Listening? Well, I'm only going to know a few words. So yeah, I can say, 주말 뭐하고 싶으세요? But as soon as you start to really lay into how you're going to ponder the intricacies of calculus with your aunt (and not your aunt your other aunt! You know, your mom's sister, not your dad's sister! Yes, for those that don't know, there are two separate words for these two individuals) , I'M GONE!

Are you sure you're not actually talking about your dad's brother's wife?

Also, to add to the conversation, although I'm fluent in Korean, I still struggle with jargon and some hanja words. What gets me every time though is when I've known someone for quite a while (as in, at least a few months) and I don't understand one word they're like "Oh, well, if you study more, you'll get better" in a way that implies that they think I suck at Korean. ... Besides the obvious, my Korean is 10x better than your English. This doesn't happen often but when it does...

I just remember 이모 vs 고모 as "this aunt" and "that aunt" and obviously your maternal aunt would be "this aunt" because your mom is close with her sister whereas your father wouldn't be close with his sister so she's "that aunt"

lmaooo

I just remember 이모 vs 고모 as "this aunt" and "that aunt" and obviously your maternal aunt would be "this aunt" because your mom is close with her sister whereas your father wouldn't be close with his sister so she's "that aunt"

lmaooo

  Makes sense. To add to it, I don't like my 고모 so she's even more "that aunt" whereas I love my 이모.