Read 3269387 times

  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 957

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13840 on: June 14, 2022, 08:00:40 am »
Not sure why my friend said it took her nearly a year and a half to get in.  This was a couple of years ago.  But fairly recent.  Strange many are complaining about the wait times then.

We've gone from "a year and a half to two years" down to "almost a year and a half". As your memory returns we'll learn your "friend" was actually just a random guy in some facebook group and maybe he wasn't telling the truth at all.
"I put quite a few pics online and got rated anywhere from 8.2 to 9.6 by lots of chicks. Of course, I can't claim to have the same looks now though Koreans are always saying "handsome" - hangook77


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13841 on: June 14, 2022, 08:37:37 am »
Not sure why my friend said it took her nearly a year and a half to get in.  This was a couple of years ago.  But fairly recent.  Strange many are complaining about the wait times then. 
   This is exactly why single anecdotes are more or less meaningless when looking at medical stats that deal with large numbers of people.

   An average of 60 days doesn't mean that there aren't some that wait much, much longer.
It just means that for every person that waits , say, a year and a half, 8 other people get in the very next day.
Or 16 other people waited for 30 days, or 32 people waited for 43 days, or 64 people waited for 51 days, or 124 people waited for 56 days, or... you get where this is going, I'm guessing.

    Also, I believe that you're from the Maritimes? If you look at the graph in the article, you can see that those provinces have significantly longer wait times than the national average, so it's not surprising that a lot of your friends have stories about long waits for coloscopies.  :undecided:


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 3525

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13842 on: June 14, 2022, 09:39:52 am »
   This is exactly why single anecdotes are more or less meaningless when looking at medical stats that deal with large numbers of people.

   An average of 60 days doesn't mean that there aren't some that wait much, much longer.
It just means that for every person that waits , say, a year and a half, 8 other people get in the very next day.
Or 16 other people waited for 30 days, or 32 people waited for 43 days, or 64 people waited for 51 days, or 124 people waited for 56 days, or... you get where this is going, I'm guessing.


I really don't think he does.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13843 on: June 14, 2022, 10:26:27 am »
I'm just counting down the weeks till it's over, I feel so bad for the NET who has to take over my Tuesday-Wednesday school when I leave.

The CT is the most insufferable creature I've come across and she makes everything at this school miserable. Same CT I recently had a big fight with that involved the VP and principal. The previous CTs were cool as hell, they were competent, controlled the students and had a sense of humour.

Today, I ended the 4th grade lesson with a silly little variation of "Simon Says", game only took 3min. I'll tell the students, who are standing:
 "Touch your head."
 "Touch something green."
"Touch your pencil case."
etc.

Slowest kid sits down till there's one winner. I've always made it a point to not take the games too seriously by throwing in a lot of silly requests and randomness so the weaker kids don't get dominated by the smart ones and everyone gets involved in the lesson as no student feels intimidated. During one round I said "Touch your pencil case." and some of the students didn't have a pencil case and were eliminated. I've done this at all my schools for years and some kids protest on the spot, but quickly see the joke and just sit down. Today, the CT tells me that some students complained to the HR teacher that I eliminated them unfairly....

I stood blinking for a second, trying to wrap my head around the fact that a grown-ass woman would take a complaint about a silly game, from a piss-ant little 4th grader seriously. Previous CT would've laughed and just told the kid to go to the next class. Then I remembered who I was talking to.

She proceeds to tell me in her trademark patronising, fake sympathy tone "Please understand the student's needs in the future."

Next class, she's sitting at the back, completely oblivious to the lesson, while I'm doing my job. This kid is acting like a obnoxious little sh*t and I stop the class and call him out. She senses something is wrong and while I'm reprimanding him, she runs up and softly asks him what's wrong. He plays her like a fiddle and she coddles him with "Awww, it's ok, I know you didn't mean it. Don't worry, you're so special, Aristocrat is just angry today". I'm out of this bitch in a few weeks and really don't need more drama from her so I just tell him to sit down and carry on with the lesson.

I swear, Dong-Hyun could be stabbing another kid with a knife and she'd be caressing Dong-Hyun's hair, gently asking him if he wouldn't mind stopping.


  • Rye
  • Expert Waygook

    • 651

    • March 20, 2022, 03:43:11 pm
    • A side street near Cheongju
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13844 on: June 14, 2022, 10:40:03 am »
Just think, you'll be home soon, finishing your in-class practicum, then on to a life teaching your own classes and students. The next 30 years or so looks far more rosy. A few weeks...just a few more weeks, and that's it  :smiley:


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5524

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13845 on: June 14, 2022, 11:49:45 am »
   This is exactly why single anecdotes are more or less meaningless when looking at medical stats that deal with large numbers of people.

   An average of 60 days doesn't mean that there aren't some that wait much, much longer.
It just means that for every person that waits , say, a year and a half, 8 other people get in the very next day.
Or 16 other people waited for 30 days, or 32 people waited for 43 days, or 64 people waited for 51 days, or 124 people waited for 56 days, or... you get where this is going, I'm guessing.

    Also, I believe that you're from the Maritimes? If you look at the graph in the article, you can see that those provinces have significantly longer wait times than the national average, so it's not surprising that a lot of your friends have stories about long waits for coloscopies.  :undecided:

In other words, people are liars and not to be believed.  Their experiences should get them told Eff You as a reply and that they don't matter.  This was for an endoscopy and not a colonoscopy.  Some others mentioned having long waits for other things too.  There are also a shortage of family doctors and long delays for surgeries.  Same with the UK from what folks tell me.  Most other countries that do "socialized medicine" actually have a more mixed system like Korea where there is still private insurance and individual user pay.  Meaning a multi payer system.  Only Canada and the UK use single payer (government)?  Even Communist China doesn't give free health care anymore. 
Trolls on here are lame and need to get a life.


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5524

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13846 on: June 14, 2022, 11:53:14 am »
To follow up Kyndo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2661267/

The mean and median wait times following the recommended date for a repeat endoscopy were 303.8 and 225 days, respectively.



This was for Ontario.  A little lower than my friend's experience.  But mean means most common.  Though can be longer or shorter.  a year to a year and a half not unheard of.  Also due to cost cutting, no being knocked out for it.  You also can't offer to pay extra for it.  I would never want to be awake for that. 

Trolls on here are lame and need to get a life.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13847 on: June 14, 2022, 11:54:05 am »
In other words, people are liars and not to be believed.  Their experiences should get them told Eff You as a reply and that they don't matter.  This was for an endoscopy and not a colonoscopy.  Some others mentioned having long waits for other things too.  There are also a shortage of family doctors and long delays for surgeries.  Same with the UK from what folks tell me.   

It's not that we don't believe them, it's that we can't use Uncle Bill's experience at Miramichi General Hospital to discuss how to restructure a healthcare system.

And I bolded all your "evidence."


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5524

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13848 on: June 14, 2022, 11:56:45 am »
In Korea though you don't need to waste time being referred to a specialist.  You just go to the doctor or specialized hospital right away.  I got both endoscopy and colonoscopy done within a week.  I paid 200 bucks, Korea paid the rest.  I told this to the same friend who flipped over the idea of paying anything but then complained about her wait.  Go figure.  Most of that wait was actually to get the original doctor's appointment and then waiting to get into see the specialist. 
Trolls on here are lame and need to get a life.


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5524

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13849 on: June 14, 2022, 11:57:58 am »
It's not that we don't believe them, it's that we can't use Uncle Bill's experience at Miramichi General Hospital to discuss how to restructure a healthcare system.

And I bolded all your "evidence."

If it more than one person complaing about long waits and delays, that ought to count for something.  Clearly official stats aren't adding up. 
Trolls on here are lame and need to get a life.


  • Augustiner
  • Super Waygook

    • 445

    • December 06, 2021, 01:18:06 pm
    • Anyang
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13850 on: June 14, 2022, 11:59:24 am »
I'm just counting down the weeks till it's over, I feel so bad for the NET who has to take over my Tuesday-Wednesday school when I leave.

The CT is the most insufferable creature I've come across and she makes everything at this school miserable. Same CT I recently had a big fight with that involved the VP and principal. The previous CTs were cool as hell, they were competent, controlled the students and had a sense of humour.

I swear, Dong-Hyun could be stabbing another kid with a knife and she'd be caressing Dong-Hyun's hair, gently asking him if he wouldn't mind stopping.

Is she a contract teacher?  The only two co-teachers I've had that coddled the kids and tried to be their friend were both contract teachers.  And I had both of them at the same time.  Hated class with them.  Only thought was how the kids would review them at the end of the year.  Neither wanted to go back to being the hakwan "teacher" that gave the kids lunch and pack their bags before they all went on the bus home together.  They both started out in that world of academia. Never have had a contract co-teacher since and most are much better about maintaining order.   


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13851 on: June 14, 2022, 12:29:18 pm »
In other words, people are liars and not to be believed.  Their experiences should get them told Eff You as a reply and that they don't matter.
:huh: Nononononono! This is completely and utterly not at all the point!  I'd really appreciate if you quoted the sentence where you think I said that so that I can either explain it in more detail, or rephrase it.

This was for an endoscopy and not a colonoscopy. 
The conversation had been about colonoscopies, so that's what I found links for. In any case, I'm not certain that makes a huge difference -- but it might, ok.

The mean and median wait times following the recommended date for a repeat endoscopy were 303.8 and 225 days, respectively.
Ah! Some stats to argue with! Nice! Thank you.  :azn:

  Reading the article, I noticed several things that stood out:
-1 the study is restricted to only one single medical facility in Ontario, Canada. (odd that the article didn't name it. Maybe for reasons of privacy?)
-2 the sample size is only 417 (compared to the national average which includes data from *all* patients that received a colonoscopy, which is (presumably) in the tens of thousands).
And most importantly,
-3 the data is from 2008. It's 14 years old. That's a loooooooong time ago considering how the field has been changing recently. This article, as well as the one I cited were used in an ongoing and apparently effective effort to reduce wait times. Whatever the wait times were in 2008, they've been reduced dramatically since then. This is outlined in the article I previously posted (I'll do it again, in case one wants to confirm).
https://www.partnershipagainstcancer.ca/topics/colorectal-indicators-2017-2018/indicators/wait-times/

In fact, the point of the research article you posted was to support the need for this change. Apparently it was well received!
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 12:58:23 pm by Kyndo »


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13852 on: June 14, 2022, 12:47:14 pm »
Is she a contract teacher?  The only two co-teachers I've had that coddled the kids and tried to be their friend were both contract teachers.  And I had both of them at the same time.  Hated class with them.  Only thought was how the kids would review them at the end of the year.  Neither wanted to go back to being the hakwan "teacher" that gave the kids lunch and pack their bags before they all went on the bus home together.  They both started out in that world of academia. Never have had a contract co-teacher since and most are much better about maintaining order.   

She isn't, she was a HR teacher last year and no surprise her students were, by far, the worst behaved in the entire school. My 2 favourite CTs were both contract teachers.

You're right though, it seems like her only concern is getting the students to like her and she does it by:

- Answering for the students and totally undermining the activities I create to get them to read and speak
- 'Hangulising' everything, see above
- ALWAYS taking their side
- Never raising her voice or reprimanding the students no matter how much abuse or disrespect gets hurled at her.

She has perfected the art of creating weak, spoilt brats.


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5524

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13853 on: June 14, 2022, 02:22:34 pm »
:huh: Nononononono! This is completely and utterly not at all the point!  I'd really appreciate if you quoted the sentence where you think I said that so that I can either explain it in more detail, or rephrase it.
The conversation had been about colonoscopies, so that's what I found links for. In any case, I'm not certain that makes a huge difference -- but it might, ok.
Ah! Some stats to argue with! Nice! Thank you.  :azn:

  Reading the article, I noticed several things that stood out:
-1 the study is restricted to only one single medical facility in Ontario, Canada. (odd that the article didn't name it. Maybe for reasons of privacy?)
-2 the sample size is only 417 (compared to the national average which includes data from *all* patients that received a colonoscopy, which is (presumably) in the tens of thousands).
And most importantly,
-3 the data is from 2008. It's 14 years old. That's a loooooooong time ago considering how the field has been changing recently. This article, as well as the one I cited were used in an ongoing and apparently effective effort to reduce wait times. Whatever the wait times were in 2008, they've been reduced dramatically since then. This is outlined in the article I previously posted (I'll do it again, in case one wants to confirm).
https://www.partnershipagainstcancer.ca/topics/colorectal-indicators-2017-2018/indicators/wait-times/

In fact, the point of the research article you posted was to support the need for this change. Apparently it was well received!

Any time someone is told their experiences are not valid and are dismissed as anecdotal, they are essentially being told they don't matter and are to be dismissed and ignored.  It is quite personally rude.  There are many stories of long waits for many services including overworked health care workers under extreme pressure from above to avoid "expensive" tests and to dismiss people.  One aunt died because she kept being told she had a "headache" and this was in Oshawa.  She had a brain aneurism and was ignored and even had staff get rude to her when she kept insisting.  Finally she was admitted and sent to Toronto but it was too late.  No lawsuits by family allowed.  Keep costs down and avoid expensive tests.  A similar thing happened on a Facebook post in Saint John, New Brunswick on a medical group.  Same exact situation.  Another cousin, went to the hospital with stomach pains and was told she had cramps and to talk tylenol.  Turns out she was pregnant and had a miscarriage.  Again pressure to keep costs down and avoid expensive tests.  Quantity doesn't equal quality.  Overworked staff getting rude and pushy on top of that doesn't help matters.  These are real people who exist and have real experiences.  There are many more examples I am not mentioning.  Now maybe people are rushed out the door to keep official statistics down, who knows?  Why is reality not matching?  Is there a cover up or is there something going else going on?  Ask a large sample size of Canadians and they will tell you about Health Care declining for a long time.  100 per cent free means not enough money long term to pay for things.  No one wants to admit it though, due to pride or whatever.  The UK has many similar problems.  It seems many other European countries with a mixed system which Korea and Japan are somewhat based off seem to fare much better for speed of service and results though you do have to pay some of it yourself, but not insane prices like in the US (due to corruption). 
Trolls on here are lame and need to get a life.


  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 957

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13854 on: June 14, 2022, 02:31:54 pm »
Any time someone is told their experiences are not valid and are dismissed as anecdotal, they are essentially being told they don't matter and are to be dismissed and ignored.

Good to see you've got a solid understanding of what anecdotal evidence is. Facts don't care about your feelings, snowflake.
"I put quite a few pics online and got rated anywhere from 8.2 to 9.6 by lots of chicks. Of course, I can't claim to have the same looks now though Koreans are always saying "handsome" - hangook77


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13855 on: June 14, 2022, 02:50:47 pm »
Any time someone is told their experiences are not valid and are dismissed as anecdotal, they are essentially being told they don't matter and are to be dismissed and ignored.  It is quite personally rude.
'tis true!
I'm not trying to devalue your experiences, or the experiences of those you know: I acknowledge them, and accept that they are true.

 But the corollary is to take an anecdote and then to apply it universally, mistaking an isolated incident for a widespread phenomenon.
People and their experiences *do* matter on a personal level, but we should keep in mind that *everybody* has their own personal experiences, and that one person's experiences should not outweigh those of a thousand.
That would be both morally wrong *and* unscientific.

Anecdotes focus on a singular individual, statistics focus on the multitudes. When we talk about your friend, the former is obviously more important. When we talk about average wait times for a medical procedure across an entire country, the latter is more relevant. That's *why* stats are collected and used.


  Is there a cover up or is there something going else going on?
Occam's Razor says no.
Just because one doesn't agree with the data does not mean that the data is wrong, or worse, that it's being fabricated. It's a weak argument unless one can provide compelling evidence.


 And actually, the most common form of medical system in the world is free universal medical. Most countries that rank well in medical systems have universal health systems (including almost all of Europe, btw).
Check out the map:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13856 on: June 14, 2022, 03:03:12 pm »
   An average of 60 days doesn't mean that there aren't some that wait much, much longer.
It just means that for every person that waits , say, a year and a half, 8 other people get in the very next day.
Or 16 other people waited for 30 days, or 32 people waited for 43 days, or 64 people waited for 51 days, or 124 people waited for 56 days, or... you get where this is going, I'm guessing.
.
I seem to recall making this point about average age of first birth during the argument over when people were having kids.

It's a common error for people to assume average=some perfect distribution on either side rather than a cluster around a certain value.

Indeed if you have a really large number of cases in that cluster you can have a fairly significant number on one side or another and it not move the needle much.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13857 on: June 15, 2022, 06:07:17 pm »
I have an Army fan on the Korea Times comments page trying to convince me that the members of BTS are billionaires.

Sure thing, sis. Yikes. Paul McCartney is worth 1.2 billion net worth and he has been milking The Beatles for SIXTY YEARS.

And then she says "What about BT21??"

Oh, you mean the LINE brand that they licenced from HYBE Entertainment?

"They own houses in Gangnam!!!"

Okay. 2 houses at 5 million each? That's ten million.

Some people are truly delusional. Can't you just like them and their music? Why do they need to be billionaires, nice people in real life and you insist that they're the biggest band in the world of the last decade?


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 3668

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • South Gyeongsang province for 13 years (with a 7-year Jeju interlude)
    more
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13858 on: June 16, 2022, 10:15:41 am »
BTS members are billionaires if you measure their wealth in Korean won. ;)
Life's to live! Live! Breathe. Relax. Enjoy. Animals teach us to focus on family, friends and avoid danger. Get what you need and get along with others. That said, some rock the boat, but they know capsizin' it means they're sunk. Some sink, let's swim! The sea's big, great, but has undercurrents.


  • Rye
  • Expert Waygook

    • 651

    • March 20, 2022, 03:43:11 pm
    • A side street near Cheongju
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13859 on: June 16, 2022, 10:51:12 am »
#@%$*...just tried to open an already opened large packet of yeast at the wrong end. The correct end was already half open.