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  • Kayos
  • The Legend

    • 2398

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13240 on: September 30, 2021, 02:08:43 pm »
I get those, but what I found more annoying are the robots.

The poor robots aren't lazy, they've just had every iota of critical thinking beaten out of them, all they understand is 'listen and repeat'.

(Calling students to my desk so they can read their work, labels above pictures)
(I'm informally assessing reading and comprehension)

Me - What's this <points at athlete>

Robot - athlete

Me - Good, name 3 athletes.

Robot - ...Name 3 athletes

Me - ...No, name 3 athletes, like Messi, Ronaldo, Usain Bolt <Showing my hand as I count on my fingers>

Robot - ....... <shows hand and counts as he say> .... name...three...athl ete

Me -.... What's your name?

Robot -....What's your name?

I get your frustration at that. But, to also be fair, I couldn't name 3 athletes myself haha.
I think the worst are the ones who have just given up. What you do informally is essentially what I do for my speaking tests, just 1 on 1 with the questions we've been learning in class.
I have some minor visual aids for a couple questions / for the lower level students, but I have grade 3 middle schoolers that will say "I don't know" before I've even finished the question, and I have questions like: What's your favourite X?


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7832

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13241 on: September 30, 2021, 02:24:15 pm »
I couldn't name 3 athletes myself haha.

You’ve never heard of Michael Jordan? Wayne Gretzky? Muhammad Ali? Tom Brady? Kim Yuna? Babe Ruth? Tiger Woods? None of those names ring a bell?


  • Kayos
  • The Legend

    • 2398

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13242 on: September 30, 2021, 02:29:14 pm »
You’ve never heard of Michael Jordan? Wayne Gretzky? Muhammad Ali? Tom Brady? Kim Yuna? Babe Ruth? Tiger Woods? None of those names ring a bell?

I guess I could name 2. Only 2 of those names ring a bell. I hate sports, so learning the names of athletes is pointless.


  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 984

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13243 on: September 30, 2021, 02:30:05 pm »
You’ve never heard of Michael Jordan? Wayne Gretzky? Muhammad Ali? Tom Brady? Kim Yuna? Babe Ruth? Tiger Woods? None of those names ring a bell?

I wouldn't be surprised if a random person from NZ had never heard of Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady, Kim Yuna or Babe Ruth. Not knowing the other three would surprise me a little. Either way, an elementary school student in Korea not knowing three athletes? Par for the course. Of that list, would you expect a Korean child to know anyone other than, possibly, Kim Yuna?
"I put quite a few pics online and got rated anywhere from 8.2 to 9.6 by lots of chicks. Of course, I can't claim to have the same looks now though Koreans are always saying "handsome" to me." - hangook77


  • Kayos
  • The Legend

    • 2398

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13244 on: September 30, 2021, 02:36:38 pm »
I wouldn't be surprised if a random person from NZ had never heard of Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady, Kim Yuna or Babe Ruth. Not knowing the other three would surprise me a little. Either way, an elementary school student in Korea not knowing three athletes? Par for the course. Of that list, would you expect a Korean child to know anyone other than, possibly, Kim Yuna?

Michael Jordan and Ali were the only 2 I remembered. Chances are I might have heard of the others, but when it comes to athletes with me, names just go in one ear and out the other.
Michael Jordan was in Space Jam; and I recently read a comment about Ali that interested me, which is why I remember him too.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7832

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13245 on: September 30, 2021, 02:41:38 pm »
Either way, an elementary school student in Korea not knowing three athletes? Par for the course.

Shin-Soo Choo, Hyun Jin Ryu, Son Heung Min, Park Ji Sung?


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13246 on: September 30, 2021, 02:41:47 pm »
I guess I could name 2. Only 2 of those names ring a bell. I hate sports, so learning the names of athletes is pointless.

It was an informal assessment for comprehension, not knowledge. Every Korean knows Kim Yuna. Even one example would've demonstrated a reasonable level of comprehension and this was after I named Messi to get them started.

I'm very surprised that an adult can't name 3 athletes. I mean, I have zero interest in golf, baseball or ice-hockey, but I've heard of Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods and Babe Ruth. I didn't have to learn their names, they're part of western culture so you just kinda pick up the names be being somewhat attentive to the world around you.

Tom Brady could be an underwear brand for all I know.

I wouldn't be surprised if a random person from NZ had never heard of Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady, Kim Yuna or Babe Ruth. Not knowing the other three would surprise me a little. Either way, an elementary school student in Korea not knowing three athletes? Par for the course. Of that list, would you expect a Korean child to know anyone other than, possibly, Kim Yuna?

Again, an assessment on comprehension, not knowledge. A student who couldn't name 3 athletes would say, "I don't know", which would demonstrate an understanding of the question and what an athlete is... pass.
Simply repeating the question demonstrates a lack of comprehension of the word 'athlete' as well as the question...fail.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 02:44:44 pm by Aristocrat »


  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 984

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13247 on: September 30, 2021, 02:46:38 pm »
Shin-Soo Choo, Hyun Jin Ryu, Son Heung Min, Park Ji Sung?

There are a lot of Korean athletes. Do you think those are the four Korean athletes the average elementary school student would name?
If a student has no interest in sports, there's a good chance they can't name any. If they aren't interested in sports, Aristocrat naming three foreign athletes certainly isn't going to help.
"I put quite a few pics online and got rated anywhere from 8.2 to 9.6 by lots of chicks. Of course, I can't claim to have the same looks now though Koreans are always saying "handsome" to me." - hangook77


  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 984

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13248 on: September 30, 2021, 02:48:50 pm »
Again, an assessment on comprehension, not knowledge. A student who couldn't name 3 athletes would say, "I don't know", which would demonstrate an understanding of the question and what an athlete is... pass.
Simply repeating the question demonstrates a lack of comprehension of the word 'athlete' as well as the question...fail.

I don't doubt that at all.
"I put quite a few pics online and got rated anywhere from 8.2 to 9.6 by lots of chicks. Of course, I can't claim to have the same looks now though Koreans are always saying "handsome" to me." - hangook77


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13249 on: September 30, 2021, 02:49:19 pm »
It was an informal assessment for comprehension, not knowledge. Every Korean knows Kim Yuna. Even one example would've demonstrated a reasonable level of comprehension and this was after I named Messi to get them started.

I'm very surprised that an adult can't name 3 athletes. I mean, I have zero interest in golf, baseball or ice-hockey, but I've heard of Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods and Babe Ruth. I didn't have to learn their names, they're part of western culture so you just kinda pick up the names be being somewhat attentive to the world around you.

Tom Brady could be an underwear brand for all I know.

Again, an assessment on comprehension, not knowledge. A student who couldn't name 3 athletes would say, "I don't know", which would demonstrate an understanding of the question and what an athlete is... pass.
Simply repeating the question demonstrates a lack of comprehension of the word 'athlete' as well as the question...fail.

Not having a go but I wouldn't be sure about the answer to that question either, since it wouldn't be clear to me if you meant sportsmen and women or specifically those involved in athletics. Maybe it's a geographical thing


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7832

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13250 on: September 30, 2021, 02:52:22 pm »
There are a lot of Korean athletes. Do you think those are the four Korean athletes the average elementary school student would name?

I’d say those are the Korean athletes they’d be most likely to be able to name, along with Kim Yuna. Super famous. If you think that’s off, who would you say are better choices?

I wouldn't be surprised if a random person from NZ had never heard of Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady, Kim Yuna or Babe Ruth.

But what if the random person from NZ had lived in Korea for ages? Unfamiliarity with the name Kim Yuna wouldn’t be surprising?


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13251 on: September 30, 2021, 02:52:25 pm »
Shin-Soo Choo, Hyun Jin Ryu, Son Heung Min, Park Ji Sung?

Yeah, I don't give a shit about sports, but 3 athletes? Some things you learn by simply being alive. Like, I don't listen to rap anymore, generally, but

Wiz Khalifa, Travis Scott, Drake, Lil Wayne, Kendrick Lamar

There, I just named 5 in 10 seconds. And, rappers is specific. Notice how it wasn't "3 people who make music." 3 athletes is a non-constrained question. It's as general you can go without resorting to "name 3 humans."
 


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13252 on: September 30, 2021, 02:55:36 pm »
wait are you guys really gonna skip over the sportsman sportswoman thing? i've never heard that in my short little life. where is that predominantly used? you guys really say "whose your favorite sportsman?" instead?


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13253 on: September 30, 2021, 02:55:57 pm »
When I worked in Harlem with disadvanted youth, I asked my students to name 3 things from the music industry, any 3 things, and they said, and I quote

"Queen, The Beatles and Dwight Yoakam."

I was blown away.


  • Kayos
  • The Legend

    • 2398

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13254 on: September 30, 2021, 03:03:34 pm »
Yeah, I don't give a shit about sports, but 3 athletes? Some things you learn by simply being alive. Like, I don't listen to rap anymore, generally, but

Wiz Khalifa, Travis Scott, Drake, Lil Wayne, Kendrick Lamar

There, I just named 5 in 10 seconds. And, rappers is specific. Notice how it wasn't "3 people who make music." 3 athletes is a non-constrained question. It's as general you can go without resorting to "name 3 humans."

But the thing about humans is each is different. If someone comes up to me on the street, introduces themselves, does small talk for a couple minutes before parting ways never to be seen by me again, is the same as telling me an athletes name, I'm not going to remember it. :P


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7832

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13255 on: September 30, 2021, 03:03:50 pm »
Yeah, I don't give a shit about sports, but 3 athletes?

Tony Hawk, Lance Armstrong, Connor McGregor?

Heard of them all?

Oh, Mike Tyson! I know him from the video game.

Hulk Hogan! Does he count? Gray area.

Arnold Schwarzenegger… also gray area. Is bodybuilding a sport?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 03:05:21 pm by L I »


  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 984

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13256 on: September 30, 2021, 03:04:04 pm »
I’d say those are the Korean athletes they’d be most likely to be able to name, along with Kim Yuna. Super famous. If you think that’s off, who would you say are better choices?

But what if the random person from NZ had lived in Korea for ages? Unfamiliarity with the name Kim Yuna wouldn’t be surprising?

I'm not saying it's off. But two of them are retired. And have been since 2014. Not sure a child is going to immediately think of them.
 
Kim Yuna is famous in Korea. But she's essentially just a celebrity now. She competed in a sport that most people completely ignore. If this random person from NZ wasn't living in Korea in 2010, I could easily see them not knowing who she is.
"I put quite a few pics online and got rated anywhere from 8.2 to 9.6 by lots of chicks. Of course, I can't claim to have the same looks now though Koreans are always saying "handsome" to me." - hangook77


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13257 on: September 30, 2021, 03:04:12 pm »
Not having a go but I wouldn't be sure about the answer to that question either, since it wouldn't be clear to me if you meant sportsmen and women or specifically those involved in athletics. Maybe it's a geographical thing

As a pedagogical rule, never assess students on what you haven't taught.

Before I gave the students the activity of cutting and pasting the pictures above the appropriate labels, I defined each word and went through the spelling. We named a few athletes as a class and made sure to name athletes of different genders and across different sports. Any student who paid attention would've known full well what an athlete was by the time the activity was completed and they came to my desk, one by one, to go over their work.

The student in question demonstrated:

- a reasonable ability to mimic
- questionable reading ability (he could've just memorised the sound of the word through repetition than actually relied on reading skills to work out the pronunciation)
- poor comprehension skills, which could suggest that he wasn't paying attention in class and/or he didn't understand the lesson.

Moving forward

- More groupwork so he can communicate with his peers in English and learn from them
- Moving up Bloom's Taxonomy, I'd get him to 'create' words to assess his understanding of the phonetic principals I taught
- Elicit more answers and understanding from him, during the lesson, to practice and improve his comprehension skills.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13258 on: September 30, 2021, 03:13:04 pm »
She competed in a sport that most people completely ignore.
This is what really drove me crazy when I first moved here. A lot of Koreans acted as if she was this worldwide MEGA celebrity that your average Iowan corn farmer would hang on their wall.

"She's the Queen of Figure Skating."

"She's the greatest female athlete of the century."

Like, WHAT. And this isn't even to denigrate her achievements (which are amazing) or to tell Koreans they shouldn't be proud of her (they should).

But it always gets amped up to 11 here .

Ask any Korean person "who won men's singles ice skating in 2014 or 2018?" Or women's for that matter.

No one knows.

Well, guess what? That's how EVERY OTHER COUNTRY FEELS. Name the gold medal men's cycling athlete from Tokyo this year.

Anyone? No one cares. Again, good for the athlete, good for the country but to think Zakaria the Macedonian barber has thought about Kim Yuna even ONCE is totally absurd.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 03:15:42 pm by CO2 »


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #13259 on: September 30, 2021, 03:13:37 pm »
what the ****?

[edit this is a reply to morningclam not c02]