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  • Kayos
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1851

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12420 on: July 21, 2020, 02:50:34 pm »
That's a pile of crapness Kayos.  Hope it goes okay.  It's such a stupid way of doing things.  As soon as someone else comes to watch a class, the behaviour changes of the students.  Why can't they just take your word for it considering it's carried on for so long?  >:(

Exactly. My words to the supervisor would be: Ask the Korean teachers who have had that school, as a travel school, for as long as I have.
My co-t there also complains that ALL the teachers that come from outside that school, complain about the students there.
If they can't trust my words as a foreigner, maybe ask the Korean teachers who also have problems there.
I have admitted they are slightly better this year, compared to the other 2, I'm just more at my limit based on the previous 2 years there, so when they act up and classes go badly, it's effecting me more than it probably should, which is why I'd like a change.


  • Kayos
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1851

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12421 on: July 21, 2020, 02:52:54 pm »
That's a pile of crapness Kayos.  Hope it goes okay.  It's such a stupid way of doing things.  As soon as someone else comes to watch a class, the behaviour changes of the students.  Why can't they just take your word for it considering it's carried on for so long?  >:(

And to answer your question, travel schools are handled by the local education office, not the province's one. All my complaining has been to the coordinator of the provinces education office rather than the local one.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4266

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12422 on: July 21, 2020, 02:55:06 pm »
Well, they are a f*****g bit!

See, some people care about other people, some people not so much.  The former person will put the cart back in the cart return (becasue that is objective good), but the latter person just won't bother.

Similarly, assuming I think my materials in some way help students (an objective good) I will willingly share my materials, even though  the law mights say i have to.  However, a person who doesn't care about objective good will only leave his materials to be shared if he fears the law or some form of repercussions.  However, in the case of leaving your materials in Korea goes, as Kyndo said, you can just tell them Oops, I accidentally erased my thumbdrive. 

So, yeah.  A fair bit of similarlity there. 
ah, the old "but think about the children" comeback. well, in my experience, if they were decent teachers, they'd already have their own materials to use (which i talked about in my first post). the teachers i found that would always ask me for materials would be the lazy (or dickhead) teachers, and they were the teachers that didn't really give a shit about making good lessons anyway. so i certainly wasn't going to give them materials i spent a lot of time working on (while they slept at their desks for the entire year).

so as i already said, i'd give the materials to the teachers that deserve them, but not those that don't

(oh and for the record, for what it's worth, i always put the shopping trolley back)


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12423 on: July 21, 2020, 03:00:44 pm »
I would tend to agree, giving materials to teachers who actually care about the students and take the time to make good materials themselves but just happened to really like something I made.......but my coteachers take whatever they want anyway because I have to send my lesson PPTs ahead of time for class....

Within the first week or so at a new school the coteacher asked me for my waygook account info ......


  • Colburnnn
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1183

    • August 10, 2015, 05:52:37 pm
    • South Korea
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12424 on: July 21, 2020, 03:02:53 pm »
I would tend to agree, giving materials to teachers who actually care about the students and take the time to make good materials themselves but just happened to really like something I made.......but my coteachers take whatever they want anyway because I have to send my lesson PPTs ahead of time for class....

Within the first week or so at a new school the coteacher asked me for my waygook account info ......

Please tell me you told her you were Mr.DeMartino
Haven't you got some pictures of birds to be jacking off to, son?

Colburnnn: Complains a lot, very sassy. Has a loudmouth.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12425 on: July 21, 2020, 03:04:08 pm »
Within the first week or so at a new school the coteacher asked me for my waygook account info ......

To which the correct response would have been, "What's that?"

Don't give coworkers your log-in info for anything. Ever.


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6163

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12426 on: July 21, 2020, 03:16:35 pm »
To which the correct response would have been, "What's that?"

Don't give coworkers your log-in info for anything. Ever.
I would tend to agree, giving materials to teachers who actually care about the students and take the time to make good materials themselves but just happened to really like something I made.......but my coteachers take whatever they want anyway because I have to send my lesson PPTs ahead of time for class....

Within the first week or so at a new school the coteacher asked me for my waygook account info ......

Holy shit, what? Why on earth.............. .................


#based, yeah. That's a no-go. Like, NEIS is one thing, they take care of a lot of stuff and it's part of the education system.

But Waygook? Why? Make your own account. The lack of privacy here for things is SO BIZARRE.

I got really drunk once years ago and mad slept in. (Look, we can talk about that, too. It was highly irresponsible of me and I haven't done it since. I take care of myself a lot better now, anyway)

My co-teacher went to my real estate woman. Keep in mind, this was my apartment and I got paid 400 000 a month by the school to transfer the money myself to my landlord. For all intents and purposes, my place of employment has NOTHING to do with my apartment. They pay for it, sure, but so does every job across the planet. You get wages, and then you spend it. The fact that the school gives me additional pay that is "earmarked" for rent has nought to do with it.

Anyway, my co-teacher went to the real estate woman and told her I didn't come to work and to open my door.

My co-teacher had actually knocked on my door 20 mins earlier but I was too ashamed to say anything.

So now I hear the both of them out there and my door being messed with and it's like, Good god, is that all it takes??

1. I know the name of the person who lives there
2. I looked up the name of the real estate office that handles the building
3. I marched over there and said I work with the person that lives there. LET ME IN.

Again, my school has nought to do with the apartment. My apartment now, the school owns and I live there, that's fair. It's NOT MY apartment, for better or for worse.

UGH.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 03:18:23 pm by CO2 »
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2202

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12427 on: July 21, 2020, 03:17:32 pm »
ah, the old "but think about the children" comeback. well, in my experience, if they were decent teachers, they'd already have their own materials to use (which i talked about in my first post). the teachers i found that would always ask me for materials would be the lazy (or dickhead) teachers, and they were the teachers that didn't really give a shit about making good lessons anyway. so i certainly wasn't going to give them materials i spent a lot of time working on (while they slept at their desks for the entire year).

so as i already said, i'd give the materials to the teachers that deserve them, but not those that don't

(oh and for the record, for what it's worth, i always put the shopping trolley back)

FTR, there was never anything personal in this, except to the extent you failed to understand my loose analogy.  Which I said was a loose analogy from the get-go.
Mr. C is not a bad person, in fact is quite a good person here. One of the best people on this forum if you really look at it
-Mr.DeMartino


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12428 on: July 21, 2020, 03:26:07 pm »
Holy shit, what? Why on earth.............. .................


#based, yeah. That's a no-go. Like, NEIS is one thing, they take care of a lot of stuff and it's part of the education system.

But Waygook? Why? Make your own account. The lack of privacy here for things is SO BIZARRE.

I got really drunk once years ago and mad slept in. (Look, we can talk about that, too. It was highly irresponsible of me and I haven't done it since. I take care of myself a lot better now, anyway)

My co-teacher went to my real estate woman. Keep in mind, this was my apartment and I got paid 400 000 a month by the school to transfer the money myself to my landlord. For all intents and purposes, my place of employment has NOTHING to do with my apartment. They pay for it, sure, but so does every job across the planet. You get wages, and then you spend it. The fact that the school gives me additional pay that is "earmarked" for rent has nought to do with it.

Anyway, my co-teacher went to the real estate woman and told her I didn't come to work and to open my door.

My co-teacher had actually knocked on my door 20 mins earlier but I was too ashamed to say anything.

So now I hear the both of them out there and my door being messed with and it's like, Good god, is that all it takes??

1. I know the name of the person who lives there
2. I looked up the name of the real estate office that handles the building
3. I marched over there and said I work with the person that lives there. LET ME IN.

Again, my school has nought to do with the apartment. My apartment now, the school owns and I live there, that's fair. It's NOT MY apartment, for better or for worse.

UGH.


I would have gone straight to the office of education ..........yeah it looks bad that you slept in but but still......or I would have quit because that line was way overstepped....mayb e some legal options as well


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12429 on: July 21, 2020, 03:58:48 pm »
What are your opinions on giving material to Korean teachers when leaving a job? (not uploading to Wayg thats a different thing)

This has happened multiple times over the years.

Firstly, I've downloaded plenty of lessons off this and other sites... why reinvent the wheel? What I almost always do is modify and tailor the lessons to my students and/or my liking.

In the case that I do decide to share my work, it's to teachers who have supported me. Even then, there's no way I'd give my entire library of lesson plans and materials. I'll give for a specific lesson/s. I'm much more open to sharing ideas than giving lessons.

When refusing, it's usually to flakey teachers. I did a camp for my education office where I worked with Korean teachers from different schools. After the first day, two of the teachers approached me, at different times, and asked if I could copy my entire 2 week plan to their USB. Personally,  I've found the best way to refuse is a polite, but simple, "sorry, no". I don't explain why, I don't make excuses, just "no".

Regardless, I've never seen a Korean teacher able to do my lessons justice; if the execution of the lesson isn't completely screwed up (they're designed to be taught by someone who has a complete command of English), it's taught with close to zero charisma or enthusiasm. 

So, yeah, usually no, it was hard-work making those lessons and while some may call me stingy, the last thing I'm going to be is a chump.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1329

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12430 on: July 21, 2020, 05:45:08 pm »
...So now I hear the both of them out there and my door being messed with and it's like, Good god, is that all it takes??

1. I know the name of the person who lives there
2. I looked up the name of the real estate office that handles the building
3. I marched over there and said I work with the person that lives there. LET ME IN.

Again, my school has nought to do with the apartment. My apartment now, the school owns and I live there, that's fair. It's NOT MY apartment, for better or for worse.
UGH.

This is a heads up to all you newbies lurking out:

a) CO2 is a irresponsible rapscallion and you should have nothing to do with him, and

b) If you are in a one room apartment, your land-lord *does* have a master key to your door (Most digital locks have a fob that overrides the codes), and they have absolutely no compunctions about entering your rooms when you're not around. If you value your privacy, it might be worth your while replacing the locking mechanism with one they don't have a key fob for (do it professionally, else you'll get smacked with damage deposit deductions).


  • theman3285
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1019

    • June 16, 2017, 09:01:06 am
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12431 on: July 21, 2020, 05:56:28 pm »
My co-teacher had actually knocked on my door 20 mins earlier but I was too ashamed to say anything.

So now I hear the both of them out there and my door being messed with and it's like, Good god, is that all it takes??
To be fair, she probably thought you were dead


  • dippedinblush
  • Super Waygook

    • 402

    • November 21, 2013, 11:15:05 am
    • Yangpyeong, South Korea
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12432 on: July 21, 2020, 08:37:38 pm »
This has happened multiple times over the years.

Firstly, I've downloaded plenty of lessons off this and other sites... why reinvent the wheel? What I almost always do is modify and tailor the lessons to my students and/or my liking.


In the case that I do decide to share my work, it's to teachers who have supported me. Even then, there's no way I'd give my entire library of lesson plans and materials. I'll give for a specific lesson/s. I'm much more open to sharing ideas than giving lessons.

When refusing, it's usually to flakey teachers. I did a camp for my education office where I worked with Korean teachers from different schools. After the first day, two of the teachers approached me, at different times, and asked if I could copy my entire 2 week plan to their USB. Personally,  I've found the best way to refuse is a polite, but simple, "sorry, no". I don't explain why, I don't make excuses, just "no".

Regardless, I've never seen a Korean teacher able to do my lessons justice; if the execution of the lesson isn't completely screwed up (they're designed to be taught by someone who has a complete command of English), it's taught with close to zero charisma or enthusiasm. 

So, yeah, usually no, it was hard-work making those lessons and while some may call me stingy, the last thing I'm going to be is a chump.

I love this post for so many reasons~! 

I love that you just say no so simply, cause usually I'm caught off guard and become extremely uncomfortable with demands that exceed normal politeness and generosity and I just give in because I'm so weirded out by the rude boldness of it all... I do feel Koreans step over this boundary a lot because they are so used to copying from one another that it becomes ingrained.  I can not for the life of me understand the copying culture here. 

I love the fact that you know only you can make your lessons pop with the aid of the ppt~!    The ppt does what it should which is highlight the points of what you are trying to say.  You don't use it as your crutch. 

Anyways....I am NOT giving years and years of materials to people (AS CHINGUETTI HAS SAID)  who have done jack in class (but are full of useless "suggestions" after I've done the class 1-7 times) and whenever I was in need treated me like I was a burden~ This unfortunately has happened many times to me as well.  I know when they want something  "big" cause they come to my desk with a couple slices of browned/overripened fruit and a room temp can of coffee.....

I do wonder....What do you say when they ask you why not?  Why can't you give me all of your materials...you are leaving anyways...

« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 08:46:02 pm by dippedinblush »


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12433 on: July 21, 2020, 09:15:20 pm »

I do wonder....What do you say when they ask you why not?  Why can't you give me all of your materials...you are leaving anyways...


Interesting that you ask that. Nobody can really pretend to be tough on this, assuming we were raised to have manners we're all going to feel a bit awkward for refusing.

I'm no psychologist, but I've learned a pretty amusing trick that always works.

Whenever someone asks me an uncomfortable request like this, without skipping a beat or hesitating, I'm ready to respond with a slightly curt "no"/"no thanks". Don't say anything else, just smile and let the awkward silence endure or end the conversation and walk away. If they stick around during the awkward silence, the awkwardness shifts from you to them, they're thrown off as it's not the kind of response most people expect. Typically, they'd expect you to say "ok" or give a kind of "....um... uh" type of thing, nobody expects to be shot down so quickly. Furthermore, when you're anticipating an awkward silence, since you're ready to say no, it's really not that awkward.

Now, they feel awkward for asking and many will simply say "...ok". Should they ask why, I don't elaborate. I don't owe anyone an explanation. I just say, politely and while still smiling, "I don't want to", this kind of blunt response leaves them with no option but to cease the request as they'd feel incredibly awkward for pushing harder as you've given no option for them to broker a "deal" (I'll buy you a coffee) etc. since you told the truth; "I don't want to", instead of some phony story of "it's on your other USB". Your uncanny ability to smile and stay calm in this awkward situation will make many perceive you to be the dominant one in this social interaction, which is all the more reason they'd cease the request and likely be more respectful in the future.

Worst case scenario, they'll see you as a strong, but polite person.

Either way, self-respect follows you decades after the approval of some random Korean co-worker.

Just my BS beliefs, take it with a pinch of salt.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 09:20:39 pm by Aristocrat »


  • dippedinblush
  • Super Waygook

    • 402

    • November 21, 2013, 11:15:05 am
    • Yangpyeong, South Korea
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12434 on: July 21, 2020, 09:54:37 pm »
No excuse...just..."Nope", "I don't want to"...Lord...I wish I could do that.  Then I wouldn't have to make excuses and lie....but....Arist ocrat,  that could burn bridges, my brother!  I suppose I need to find a middle ground....anyways I have confidence by just keeping it a simple refusal.  Thanks.   The KISS (keep it simple stupid) model does work......
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 10:09:07 pm by dippedinblush »


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12435 on: July 22, 2020, 06:43:52 am »
Regardless, I've never seen a Korean teacher able to do my lessons justice; if the execution of the lesson isn't completely screwed up (they're designed to be taught by someone who has a complete command of English), it's taught with close to zero charisma or enthusiasm. 

This is generally my feeling on it.  How Korean teachers teach and the way I teach means that my materials are pretty much useless to them.  So I'm happy to give them if they ask, but they won't use them in the same way, so it's fine.  I don't have a us/them thing with Korean teachers.  My PPTs, if I use them, account for about 5 minutes in the class, and the rest is just my style for working logically through material, which I've never seen another teacher do, but then again I only use a PPT in 1 out 5 classes, so it's rare. 


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12436 on: July 22, 2020, 07:26:05 am »
Interesting that you ask that. Nobody can really pretend to be tough on this, assuming we were raised to have manners we're all going to feel a bit awkward for refusing.

I'm no psychologist, but I've learned a pretty amusing trick that always works.

Whenever someone asks me an uncomfortable request like this, without skipping a beat or hesitating, I'm ready to respond with a slightly curt "no"/"no thanks". Don't say anything else, just smile and let the awkward silence endure or end the conversation and walk away. If they stick around during the awkward silence, the awkwardness shifts from you to them, they're thrown off as it's not the kind of response most people expect. Typically, they'd expect you to say "ok" or give a kind of "....um... uh" type of thing, nobody expects to be shot down so quickly. Furthermore, when you're anticipating an awkward silence, since you're ready to say no, it's really not that awkward.

Now, they feel awkward for asking and many will simply say "...ok". Should they ask why, I don't elaborate. I don't owe anyone an explanation. I just say, politely and while still smiling, "I don't want to", this kind of blunt response leaves them with no option but to cease the request as they'd feel incredibly awkward for pushing harder as you've given no option for them to broker a "deal" (I'll buy you a coffee) etc. since you told the truth; "I don't want to", instead of some phony story of "it's on your other USB". Your uncanny ability to smile and stay calm in this awkward situation will make many perceive you to be the dominant one in this social interaction, which is all the more reason they'd cease the request and likely be more respectful in the future.

Worst case scenario, they'll see you as a strong, but polite person.

Either way, self-respect follows you decades after the approval of some random Korean co-worker.

Just my BS beliefs, take it with a pinch of salt.

I'm not sure "strong but polite" is the worst thing they'll think about you :laugh:


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12437 on: July 22, 2020, 07:30:12 am »
I'm not sure "strong but polite" is the worst thing they'll think about you :laugh:

Reminds me of this recent meme of Andre Rush, a White House chef...



 :laugh:


  • Colburnnn
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1183

    • August 10, 2015, 05:52:37 pm
    • South Korea
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12438 on: July 22, 2020, 07:55:39 am »
Why reinvent the wheel?

Regardless, I've never seen a Korean teacher able to do my lessons justice; if the execution of the lesson isn't completely screwed up, it's taught with close to zero charisma or enthusiasm. 

It's not a case of reinventing the wheel, it's more like your second point. If you give me a file to present, it's not going to work. Likewise if you take one of my lessons you won't be able to pull it off. Part of excelling as a teacher is finding your own way to deliver the material. I don't feel comfortable using a downloaded lesson because it's not mine, I didn't create it, it's not designed with me in mind. The kids can see it a mile off too and it really changes their mood and involvement in the class.

Someone mentioned a few days ago about their PPT skills improving and how their old professor at Uni had terrible stock/downloaded PPT's. It reeks of low effort. I guess what I'm trying to say is, sure someone can use my stuff, but it won't work for you because it's made by me, for me, for my kids. Not yours. So what's the point, you know?

Every teacher can do as they wish, download what they want, it's your call. I choose to design, create and deliver my own and that is why it is my IP, not the schools/MOE.
Haven't you got some pictures of birds to be jacking off to, son?

Colburnnn: Complains a lot, very sassy. Has a loudmouth.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1329

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #12439 on: July 22, 2020, 07:57:08 am »
....but....Aristocrat,  that could burn bridges, my brother!
The gentle flicker of distant bridges burning sheds the only light and warmth in the silent darkness that is my life.


Bridges, bridges, burning bright   
In the forests of the night,   
What immortal hand or eye   
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?   
 
In what distant deeps or skies            
Burnt the fire so kuwai?   
On what wings dare it aspire?   
What the hand dare seize that fire?   
 
And what shoulder and what art   
Could twist steel sinews of thy heart?   
And when thy engineered heart doth beat,   
What dread land and what dread street?   
 
What the hammer? what the chain?   
What furnace forged thy fluvial drain?   
What the anvil? What dread grasp    
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?   
 
When the stars threw down their spears,   
And water'd heaven with their tears,   
Did Engineer smile His work to see?   
Did He who made the dam make thee?    
 
Bridges, bridges, burning bright   
In the forests of the night,   
What immortal hand or eye   
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?