RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

Right, but you know he knelt on his neck BECAUSE he resisted, right? Get in the car, no resisting OR neck kneeling. Deal with the punishment of using counterfeit money like anyone else should have to.

Me too, and not once have I defended killing someone. This guy was a murderer.

The police have to role of enforcing the law. Not citizens.

There shouldn't be any neck kneeling regardless. Just because I leave my door unlocked doesn't mean that its ok to rob me, just because he resisted arrest doesn't mean its ok to kneel on his neck.

There shouldn't be any neck kneeling regardless. Just because I leave my door unlocked doesn't mean that its ok to rob me, just because he resisted arrest doesn't mean its ok to kneel on his neck.

I didn't say it was ok. It just wouldn't have happened.

I didn't say it was ok. It just wouldn't have happened.

Yeah, and again, I don't see how that is at all relevant.

Do you know how else it just wouldn't have happened? If the officer hadn't knelt on the guy's neck. Or had gotten off it after a few seconds or however long it took him to figure out the dude cuffed and on the ground was restrained. Or if any of the 3 officers surrounding him had suggested that the officer get off his neck so they could get him in the car.

Yeah, and again, I don't see how that is at all relevant.

Do you know how else it just wouldn't have happened? If the officer hadn't knelt on the guy's neck. Or had gotten off it after a few seconds or however long it took him to figure out the dude cuffed and on the ground was restrained. Or if any of the 3 officers surrounding him had suggested that the officer get off his neck so they could get him in the car.

Because that happened earlier in the timeline than the kneeling. Resisting arrest triggered this murderer to commit the act. If George said ''Hello officers, I would be happy to assist you in your investigation for my alleged use of counterfeit currency. I deny my role in this event and was unaware of the currency used being counterfeit.'' I doubt he would end up with a knee on his neck.

Because that happened earlier in the timeline than the kneeling. Resisting arrest triggered this murderer to commit the act. If George said ''Hello officers, I would be happy to assist you in your investigation for my alleged use of counterfeit currency. I deny my role in this event and was unaware of the currency used being counterfeit.'' I doubt he would end up with a knee on his neck.

Right... that exactly happened to Charles Kinsey. And he wasn't combative at all.

Because that happened earlier in the timeline than the kneeling. Resisting arrest triggered this murderer to commit the act. If George said ''Hello officers, I would be happy to assist you in your investigation for my alleged use of counterfeit currency. I deny my role in this event and was unaware of the currency used being counterfeit.'' I doubt he would end up with a knee on his neck.

Okay, and...?

Like, I still don't see why you feel him resisting arrest is relevant enough to bring up. If he had died while resisting arrest that would be one thing and this would be a worthwhile conversation, but as we all know, he was brutalized while restrained. Why do his decisions prior to being brutalized comes into play at all? There are any number of things that could've happened that day to prevent his death, and again, we could play this game of hypotheticals all day. Ultimately, none of them change the facts of how he died and that his death was clearly unjustified.

Right... that exactly happened to Charles Kinsey. And he wasn't combative at all.

Shot in the leg by a poc (hispanic) policeman who (says) he was aiming for a mental patient he thought was a suicidal man.

Not exactly the same thing, but equally ridiculous and unnecessary.

Okay, and...?

Like, I still don't see why you feel him resisting arrest is relevant enough to bring up. If he had died while resisting arrest that would be one thing and this would be a worthwhile conversation, but as we all know, he was brutalized while restrained. Why do his decisions prior to being brutalized comes into play at all? There are any number of things that could've happened that day to prevent his death, and again, we could play this game of hypotheticals all day. Ultimately, none of them change the facts of how he died and that his death was clearly unjustified.

Because he played a part in escalating the situation.

Because he played a part in escalating the situation.

Okay, and that still justifies literally nothing that happened afterwards. So, again, why is it even worth bringing up?

I mean, yeah, in a perfect world, nobody would escalate anything so nobody would get killed by cops. But this isn't a perfect world, and applying the appropriate amount of force based on the situation is part of a police officer's job. Cops shooting somebody because they reach for their wallet during a traffic stop is already bad enough, but at least you could argue that its involuntary in that sort of situation. I don't think you can say the same here, which is why people are so up in arms about it.

Okay, and that still justifies literally nothing that happened afterwards. So, again, why is it even worth bringing up?

I mean, yeah, in a perfect world, nobody would escalate anything so nobody would get killed by cops. But this isn't a perfect world, and applying the appropriate amount of force based on the situation is part of a police officer's job. Cops shooting somebody because they reach for their wallet during a traffic stop is already bad enough, but at least you could argue that its involuntary in that sort of situation. I don't think you can say the same here, which is why people are so up in arms about it.

I never said it did justify it, not sure why you think I did.

My point is that escalating the situation may have caused the police officer to commit the act. You don't know that, I don't know that. But it most certainly didn't help. He obeys instructions, he PROBABLY doesn't die and the police officer PROBABLY doesn't commit the act.

George increased his chance of this type of thing happening by behaving the way he did. He didn't deserve death by any means, of course not, but he didn't do himself any favours.

I never said it did justify it, not sure why you think I did.

My point is that escalating the situation may have caused the police officer to commit the act. You don't know that, I don't know that. But it most certainly didn't help. He obeys instructions, he PROBABLY doesn't die and the police officer PROBABLY doesn't commit the act.

George increased his chance of this type of thing happening by behaving the way he did. He didn't deserve death by any means, of course not, but he didn't do himself any favours.

I never claimed that you said it justified it, not sure why you think I did.

My point is that everything above is completely irrelevant if we can agree (which I believe we can) that he shouldn't have had his neck knelt on. I think that's doubly true if we can also agree (which I believe we can) that resisting arrest should not necessarily result in death.

So, again, I have absolutely no idea why you keep bringing him resisting arrest up as if it is at all relevant to the current conversation. Whether or not he "increased the chance of this type of thing happening," it shouldn't have happened. Full stop.

People are not protesting his death because a perfectly innocent angel was brutalized. People are protesting his death because it was unjustifiable. If what happened beforehand does not change whether is death was justified or not, it isn't relevant to the problem of police brutality. The onus isn't on citizens to prevent themselves from being killed by an officer, the onus is on the officer to apply the appropriate amount of force to any given situation, which is not what happened in this instance.

I never claimed that you said it justified it, not sure why you think I did.

My point is that everything above is completely irrelevant if we can agree (which I believe we can) that he shouldn't have had his neck knelt on. I think that's doubly true if we can also agree (which I believe we can) that resisting arrest should not necessarily result in death.

So, again, I have absolutely no idea why you keep bringing him resisting arrest up as if it is at all relevant to the current conversation. Whether or not he "increased the chance of this type of thing happening," it shouldn't have happened. Full stop.

People are not protesting his death because a perfectly innocent angel was brutalized. People are protesting his death because it was unjustifiable. If what happened beforehand does not change whether is death was justified or not, it isn't relevant to the problem of police brutality. The onus isn't on citizens to prevent themselves from being killed by an officer, the onus is on the officer to apply the appropriate amount of force to any given situation, which is not what happened in this instance.

Couldn't agree with you more. I seriously cannot fathom what Colburnnn's point is. The proper course of action in any instance, regardless of resisting arrest or not, is NOT to kneel on somebody's neck, brutalize them and ultimately take their life.

Rant:

School is back in session, which is nice, but for 3 or my schools, they want the teachers to come in an hour early to oversee the students entering the school. So I'm expected to be there at 7:30, which sucks because I have a 50 minute commute. Oh, *and* I've got a 10 month old baby that I need to get ready for orinijib before I leave (thank jebus they start early!).

Aside from having to wake up well before 6, it means that I cant go for my morning runs anymore. This doubly sucks because I'm usually not able to find the time to run after work. 

Man, I hope Corona goes away soon so that, among other things, I can sleep again...

I never claimed that you said it justified it, not sure why you think I did.

My point is that everything above is completely irrelevant if we can agree (which I believe we can) that he shouldn't have had his neck knelt on. I think that's doubly true if we can also agree (which I believe we can) that resisting arrest should not necessarily result in death.

So, again, I have absolutely no idea why you keep bringing him resisting arrest up as if it is at all relevant to the current conversation. Whether or not he "increased the chance of this type of thing happening," it shouldn't have happened. Full stop.

People are not protesting his death because a perfectly innocent angel was brutalized. People are protesting his death because it was unjustifiable. If what happened beforehand does not change whether is death was justified or not, it isn't relevant to the problem of police brutality. The onus isn't on citizens to prevent themselves from being killed by an officer, the onus is on the officer to apply the appropriate amount of force to any given situation, which is not what happened in this instance.

Perhaps we are talking about two different points.

I agree 100% that he shouldn't have had his neck knelt on. I 99.9% agree that resisting arrest should not result in death (depending on the person being arrested not have a weapon that threatens the police officers life and the police officer having no other choice in disarming or removing said threat to their life)

George should not have lost his life. 100%. He had no reason to resist arrest and I wish this was called out more within the black community. If every black person (and white - just topic is black people right now) adopted this approach when questioned by law enforcement. The police would have NOWHERE to hide, no EXCUSES, NOTHING. Unfortunately the police know this isn't the case and are always aware of the potential threat.

The onus is on people to not commit crimes. Once you do, you open yourself up to interactions with the police.

I shall repeat. George did not deserve to die. This cop deserves to rot in jail.

You are responsible for your own actions in life, no one elses. All cops are not responsible for one cops actions, one black person is not responsible for all black peoples actions so on and so on. This group think (identity politics) needs to be left behind if we are to get peace. But obviously that is not what some people are after.

I'll try to respond to this a little less abrasively, because I don't believe that you have negative intentions.

Perhaps we are talking about two different points.

I agree 100% that he shouldn't have had his neck knelt on. I 99.9% agree that resisting arrest should not result in death (depending on the person being arrested not have a weapon that threatens the police officers life and the police officer having no other choice in disarming or removing said threat to their life)

There are certainly cases where lethal force in self-defense is justified or even necessary. I think I said this on another thread, but nobody (or at least most people) is going out and protesting over somebody dying in a shootout, or during an armed robbery.

George should not have lost his life. 100%. He had no reason to resist arrest and I wish this was called out more within the black community. If every black person (and white - just topic is black people right now) adopted this approach when questioned by law enforcement. The police would have NOWHERE to hide, no EXCUSES, NOTHING. Unfortunately the police know this isn't the case and are always aware of the potential threat.

The issue I have with this is that "He had no reason to resist arrest and I wish this was called out more within the black community" should be "The officer had no reason to place his knee on a cuffed person's neck for 8 minutes." It is true that people should not resist arrest. It is also true that people should not commit crimes generally. However, we are not living in fantasyland.

The onus is on people to not commit crimes. Once you do, you open yourself up to interactions with the police.

And once those interactions are opened, the onus is on the police to approach the situation responsibly and and enforce the law appropriately.

I'm not claiming that policing is an easy job. I'm not claiming that there isn't an us vs. them mentality which makes gauging certain situations difficult. However, that's why there should be rigorous training to ensure that the only people on the force are people who can handle difficult situations with a clear head.

Because we should hold our peacekeepers to higher standards than the average citizen. They are choosing to take on a role of responsibility, and part of responsibility is accountability when you abuse your power or even simply fail.

You are responsible for your own actions in life, no one elses. All cops are not responsible for one cops actions, one black person is not responsible for all black peoples actions so on and so on. This group think (identity politics) needs to be left behind if we are to get peace. But obviously that is not what some people are after.

I don't entirely disagree, although I'd argue that the 3 cops standing around the guy and letting him kneel on somebody's neck are at least somewhat responsible.

And ultimately, although we are all responsible for our own lives, I'd personally argue that Floyd is not responsible for somebody kneeling on his neck.

Rant:

School is back in session, which is nice, but for 3 or my schools, they want the teachers to come in an hour early to oversee the students entering the school. So I'm expected to be there at 7:30, which sucks because I have a 50 minute commute. Oh, *and* I've got a 10 month old baby that I need to get ready for orinijib before I leave (thank jebus they start early!).

Aside from having to wake up well before 6, it means that I cant go for my morning runs anymore. This doubly sucks because I'm usually not able to find the time to run after work. 

Man, I hope Corona goes away soon so that, among other things, I can sleep again...

That sucks, especially with a young baby to care for. Hopefully it will be better next semester.

My main school is doing the same, but they only need a handful of teachers to monitor at a time, so they're taking turns, and each teacher only has this duty once every 2 weeks. I got excluded from it altogether even though I basically tried to sneak my name into The Choosening, but they were wise to my antics and told me to go back to my room. 

Rant:

School is back in session, which is nice, but for 3 or my schools, they want the teachers to come in an hour early to oversee the students entering the school. So I'm expected to be there at 7:30, which sucks because I have a 50 minute commute. Oh, *and* I've got a 10 month old baby that I need to get ready for orinijib before I leave (thank jebus they start early!).

Aside from having to wake up well before 6, it means that I cant go for my morning runs anymore. This doubly sucks because I'm usually not able to find the time to run after work. 

Man, I hope Corona goes away soon so that, among other things, I can sleep again...

I'm curious, are those schools private? It sounds like you're in a rural private school. I don't think that would fly in my school. Lots of teachers from far away from the school, they'd raise a rukus if it was forced on them.

If they tried that at my school, the teachers would cause a huge ruckus, but also demand to get paid for it. Hope you're getting paid extra, kyndo

2 of them are private schools, yep.
The 3rd is public. They're all in the same area, so maybe it's a municipal recommendation or something?

I'm not getting paid, but I *am* getting the second half of my day at my elementary school off every week. Going home at lunchtime on Fridays is nice!

2 of them are private schools, yep.
The 3rd is public. They're all in the same area, so maybe it's a municipal recommendation or something?

I'm not getting paid, but I *am* getting the second half of my day at my elementary school off every week. Going home at lunchtime on Fridays is nice!

Wow 4 schools, and I think my current 2 schools is a big hassle... lol