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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11320 on: February 03, 2020, 12:59:44 pm »
This is a hilarious discussion. Love it or hate it, and whether or not you have the education to see why, Lolita is a work of objective technical genius by one of the most brilliant writers of his time. Fifty Shades is pornography ... a medium that has its own uses and technical standards (which Fifty Shades also fails to meet, by most accounts), but discussing it in the same breath as Lolita is the only truly obscene aspect of this discussion. It's bizarre to me that anyone would classify Lolita as "erotic literature," and says much more about the one doing the classifying than the work itself, which is a postmodern social/psychological satire. Provocative, yes, but erotic? -- I truly believe Nabokov would be disgusted by the suggestion ... as, for instance, Dostoevsky would be horrified by the suggestion that his realistic portrayal of tortured intellectuals wrangling with positivist philosophy is somehow an endorsement of positivism.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 01:02:30 pm by carolina2korea »


  • lhelena
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11321 on: February 03, 2020, 01:12:18 pm »
As an English major with a specialization in literature, I can't help but hop in on this one. I can only speak for universities in the US, but most schools also have special topics courses for literature. That is where you would find people analyzing and discussing books like 50 Shades. I took a special topic course on American haunted house literature and a friend of mine took a class that was only James Bond novels. In the same semester I've had a class where we read The Odyssey and then my very next class we were reading Ender's Game. That's the beauty of the literature department, anything can be pondered and written about. I was lucky enough to have professors that didn't really care or push onto us the argument of "Literature" vs "literature", it's what you can pull from the works that matter rather than how it ranks in prestige. I did however have a prof that called Pride, Prejudice and Zombies "sacrilege".


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11322 on: February 03, 2020, 01:18:08 pm »
As an English major with a specialization in literature, I can't help but hop in on this one. I can only speak for universities in the US, but most schools also have special topics courses for literature. That is where you would find people analyzing and discussing books like 50 Shades. I took a special topic course on American haunted house literature and a friend of mine took a class that was only James Bond novels. In the same semester I've had a class where we read The Odyssey and then my very next class we were reading Ender's Game. That's the beauty of the literature department, anything can be pondered and written about. I was lucky enough to have professors that didn't really care or push onto us the argument of "Literature" vs "literature", it's what you can pull from the works that matter rather than how it ranks in prestige. I did however have a prof that called Pride, Prejudice and Zombies "sacrilege".

I understand (to an extent) the value of reading canonical works alongside contemporary popular work and applying particular lenses to both. And while we can call on the intentional fallacy here, for a layperson's purposes, Lolita and Fifty Shades are written to very different standards and intended for very different effects. Where I take issue is with the suggestion that Lolita is intended or ever effective as an "erotic" work in anything like the same way Fifty Shades attempts to be erotic, and is marketed and read for that purpose.


  • lhelena
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11323 on: February 03, 2020, 01:27:42 pm »
I understand (to an extent) the value of reading canonical works alongside contemporary popular work and applying particular lenses to both. And while we can call on the intentional fallacy here, for a layperson's purposes, Lolita and Fifty Shades are written to very different standards and intended for very different effects. Where I take issue is with the suggestion that Lolita is intended or ever effective as an "erotic" work in anything like the same way Fifty Shades attempts to be erotic, and is marketed and read for that purpose.

Oh I agree. I don't think they'd be studied together, they don't really belong in the same category. I'm just pointing out that even something traditionally considered lowbrow (like 50 Shades) has a place in academia.


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11324 on: February 03, 2020, 01:36:56 pm »
As an English major with a specialization in literature, I can't help but hop in on this one. I can only speak for universities in the US, but most schools also have special topics courses for literature. That is where you would find people analyzing and discussing books like 50 Shades. I took a special topic course on American haunted house literature and a friend of mine took a class that was only James Bond novels. In the same semester I've had a class where we read The Odyssey and then my very next class we were reading Ender's Game. That's the beauty of the literature department, anything can be pondered and written about. I was lucky enough to have professors that didn't really care or push onto us the argument of "Literature" vs "literature", it's what you can pull from the works that matter rather than how it ranks in prestige. I did however have a prof that called Pride, Prejudice and Zombies "sacrilege".

Well yes, you can study virtually anything at US/UK university these days in one department or another but I don't think they're doing themselves any favours. The more accessible art they study the less people will see the need to go to university to study it IMO. 


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11325 on: February 03, 2020, 02:46:44 pm »
Oh I agree. I don't think they'd be studied together, they don't really belong in the same category. I'm just pointing out that even something traditionally considered lowbrow (like 50 Shades) has a place in academia.
Gunter Grass said: "Even bad books are books and therefore sacred."
Mr. C is not a bad person, in fact is quite a good person here. One of the best people on this forum if you really look at it
-Mr.DeMartino


  • lhelena
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11326 on: February 03, 2020, 02:54:04 pm »
Well yes, you can study virtually anything at US/UK university these days in one department or another but I don't think they're doing themselves any favours. The more accessible art they study the less people will see the need to go to university to study it IMO. 
Arguably, no one NEEDS to go to university to study art.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11327 on: February 03, 2020, 03:09:46 pm »
Nothing to really add to this discussion except that I couldn't get past page 80 of "50 Shades" because the female protagonist couldn't stop "flushing" every other sentence. I swear to gawd that if I ever find myself writing a paper on that book, I'll incorporate the verb "flush" in it as often as I can and discuss the various nuances that this word has brought to the story.

« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 08:05:04 am by Chinguetti »


  • stoat
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11328 on: February 03, 2020, 03:32:49 pm »
Nobody's mentioned the Da Vinci code (which sold more copies than 50 shades) Maybe before your time?


  • stoat
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11329 on: February 03, 2020, 03:38:44 pm »
Arguably, no one NEEDS to go to university to study art.

True but if you're going to spend money on it you probably want the best minds you can afford discussing/teaching about the highest quality art.  And you probably want something that's going to challenge you a bit too.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 05:44:45 pm by stoat »


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11330 on: February 03, 2020, 05:56:32 pm »
Nobody's mentioned the Da Vinci code (which sold more copies than 50 shades) Maybe before your time?

Too erotic.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11331 on: February 04, 2020, 08:29:12 am »
Just love this time of year.

It's fantastic to come to school during, what's about to be declared, an epidemic, and do nothing but play movies in a freezing cold classroom with NO AIRCON.


  • kyndo
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11332 on: February 04, 2020, 09:02:27 am »
Just love this time of year.
It's fantastic to come to school during, what's about to be declared, an epidemic, and do nothing but play movies in a freezing cold classroom with NO AIRCON.

I'm not sure that 15 cases (all of which are currently in quarantine) of a disease that has a death rate of less than 3% (compared to bronchiolitis' 3%, and the flu's 6%) should be considered an epidemic.

Also, wanting to turn on the aircon at this time of year? You must really hate your kids!  :laugh:


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11333 on: February 04, 2020, 09:12:14 am »
Watch movies....... Aircon........

Netflix and Chill?
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11334 on: February 04, 2020, 09:22:53 am »
Watch movies....... Aircon........

Netflix and Chill?

LOL, Never thought of that. At least they gave me a cheap mask to wear, so breathing in my warm breath is keeping my warm.
Oh... for extra fun, the projector just conked out, so no movies.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11335 on: February 04, 2020, 10:45:09 am »
I'm not sure that 15 cases (all of which are currently in quarantine) of a disease that has a death rate of less than 3% (compared to bronchiolitis' 3%, and the flu's 6%) should be considered an epidemic.

Also, wanting to turn on the aircon at this time of year? You must really hate your kids!  :laugh:

FYI, the flu has a mortality rate of 0.01%, it's impossible to have a decent estimate of the Coronavirus mortality rate as it hasn't really hit it's stride yet and is completely new.

Flu Seasonal R-0 rating of 1.2. (information from the WHO)
Coronavirus R-0 rating estimated at 4.08 (Chinese Academy of Sciences Institute, and I'd say there's a good chance the CCP has
downplayed these numbers, going by their nature and actions of the last 3 months). The WHO seems to be heavily downplaying the situation as well, thanks to there vested interests in China.

Chinese New Year started less than 2 weeks ago so we're still very much in the incubation period of what could potentially be the largest outbreak to date. The infected 14 are in quarantine, but what about the potential 4.08 they've infected and so on?

There's plenty of misinformation, fake news and a lack of facts about what's going on and I might very well be wrong, but nobody , including you, can be certain at this point.

Ultimately, if the school is making all students and teachers wear masks and I've been instructed to wipe down my keyboard and monitor with disinfectant, wouldn't it be a better idea to cancel school during the pointless few days during mid-vacation?


  • alexisalex
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11336 on: February 04, 2020, 10:59:54 am »
Yeah I agree that at the very least, students shouldn't be at school.  They're just watching movies so what's the point in risking it by being here?

From what people are saying it seems that the reaction to the virus is entirely down to your principal.  I'm amazed that there hasn't been any communication from the offices of education to the native teachers.  Unless they just communicated with the school directly. 


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11337 on: February 04, 2020, 11:13:06 am »
Yeah I agree that at the very least, students shouldn't be at school.  They're just watching movies so what's the point in risking it by being here?

From what people are saying it seems that the reaction to the virus is entirely down to your principal.  I'm amazed that there hasn't been any communication from the offices of education to the native teachers.  Unless they just communicated with the school directly. 

Indeed, remember, the CCP tried to keep the whole thing quiet for almost 2 months. There's no telling how many people abroad are infected.

Lets just say any of us working at a public school gets infected. I'm pretty healthy and strong, I'm confident I'll recover without issue, but I believe our contract states that if we're out of school for more than 10 working days (could be 11) in a row, when we should be, we're liable to have our contract terminated.


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11338 on: February 04, 2020, 11:24:35 am »
Haha yeah knowing our luck it won't be long until we see the first headline...Foreigner brings Coronavirus into school.  That won't help our reputation  :laugh:


  • kyndo
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #11339 on: February 04, 2020, 11:33:17 am »
FYI, the flu has a mortality rate of 0.01%
Ah, you're right (although for the 2019/2020 season, it's actually at around 0.05% in the USA). I posted the mortality rate for those admitted into the hospital, I believe.

It's impossible to have a decent estimate of the Coronavirus mortality rate as it hasn't really hit it's stride yet and is completely new.
Also true, but that is the percentage derived from the information available to us at this point in time (20,000 infected, 426 dead as of Feb 3).

I'd say there's a good chance the CCP has
downplayed these numbers, going by their nature and actions of the last 3 months). The WHO seems to be heavily downplaying the situation as well, thanks to there vested interests in China.
You could be right: China definitely has a history of being a bit creative with its stats. Although considering that at present only one of the confirmed coronavirus infections outside of China has resulted in a death (in the Philippines, nominally a third world country), some of the fear mongering I've read seems pretty unlikely.

Chinese New Year started less than 2 weeks ago so we're still very much in the incubation period of what could potentially be the largest outbreak to date. The infected 14 are in quarantine, but what about the potential 4.08 they've infected and so on?

There's plenty of misinformation, fake news and a lack of facts about what's going on and I might very well be wrong, but nobody , including you, can be certain at this point.

Ultimately, if the school is making all students and teachers wear masks and I've been instructed to wipe down my keyboard and monitor with disinfectant, wouldn't it be a better idea to cancel school during the pointless few days during mid-vacation?
I wouldn't pretend to be certain about any of this kind of stuff, and I agree that aggressive countermeasures are the best response to a virus that could potentially be the next Spanish Flu (they're related).

I'm all for cancelling this pointless week of classes, Corona scare or no.  >:(
Still, outside of China, the Coronavirus is definitely not an epidemic. The potential is there, but it's still only potential. Looking at the actual verifiable information currently available, I personally feel that the media is blowing things out of proportion. Be careful, and take sensible precautions, but I don't think the issue currently warrants shutting everything down. Hopefully I'll still think the same way in a week or two!