RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

_{My Korean friend has returned to Korea after 4 years in Prague!}

Cuz his dad has cancer.

So in the Off-topic Friday Thread, will you bold all of this post, or none of it?

Also, I'm sorry to hear it. Cancer sucks. 

For the first time since living here, I experienced the "please understand their unique situation..." and God has it wound me up.

Generally I'm very lenient with the students and gentle.  Very rarely lose my temper.  Last week a group of four students sitting at the back of the class weren't listening and had their wallets out on the desk with cards and money etc chatting quietly.  I walked over and gently told them to put it all away.  They did.  Walked back to the front to continue the class and within ten seconds they had their wallets out again and continued their chat.  Walked back again and told them much more firmly to put them away which they did.  Walked back to the front and again saw that they had pulled their wallets, cards and money out.  I saw red, marched over and shouted at them.  CT took them out to talk to them.

Fast forward to today and apparently both the student and my CT didn't understand why I was so angry.  CT tells me she was shocked about what I did and I should try to understand that students have different personalities.  Am I missing something here?  Like I said I'm very lenient with the students in general but they were taking the p*ss.

For the first time since living here, I experienced the "please understand their unique situation..." and God has it wound me up.

Generally I'm very lenient with the students and gentle.  Very rarely lose my temper.  Last week a group of four students sitting at the back of the class weren't listening and had their wallets out on the desk with cards and money etc chatting quietly.  I walked over and gently told them to put it all away.  They did.  Walked back to the front to continue the class and within ten seconds they had their wallets out again and continued their chat.  Walked back again and told them much more firmly to put them away which they did.  Walked back to the front and again saw that they had pulled their wallets, cards and money out.  I saw red, marched over and shouted at them.  CT took them out to talk to them.

Fast forward to today and apparently both the student and my CT didn't understand why I was so angry.  CT tells me she was shocked about what I did and I should try to understand that students have different personalities.  Am I missing something here?  Like I said I'm very lenient with the students in general but they were taking the p*ss.

I'm pretty lenient too. Usually, I tell them to put it away, second time I take it until the end of class. (if there is a big gap between 1st and 2nd, I'll just ask them to put it away again).
Yesterday, I had a student bring 2 glow in the dark nanta sticks to class, and was hitting the desk with them (because I wouldn't just play games). Yesterday, he flat out refused to listen to me when I asked him to put them away, so I told him to give them to me. He refused, and wouldn't let me take them from him. I eventually told him to go to the teachers office if he won't give them to me.
I had to get another student to go get my co-t or the head teacher. co-t walks in, I told her what happened, she gets it settled in like 5 seconds, what was taking close to 10 mins for me and getting nowhere. Once the co-t handled it, he decided to sleep. Usually, I don't let students sleep in class, but everyone else was doing well, and I decided it wasn't worth waking him, just for him to distract and disrupt the others.

The student is a good kid, his English is a bit higher than most of the class, but he won't help the other students and gets bored.
He is pretty disruptive because of it, and the co-t / school wants students doing the same thing. :\
It's the second time I became close to losing my guff in a little over 3 years here.

For the first time since living here, I experienced the "please understand their unique situation..." and God has it wound me up.

Generally I'm very lenient with the students and gentle.  Very rarely lose my temper.  Last week a group of four students sitting at the back of the class weren't listening and had their wallets out on the desk with cards and money etc chatting quietly.  I walked over and gently told them to put it all away.  They did.  Walked back to the front to continue the class and within ten seconds they had their wallets out again and continued their chat.  Walked back again and told them much more firmly to put them away which they did.  Walked back to the front and again saw that they had pulled their wallets, cards and money out.  I saw red, marched over and shouted at them.  CT took them out to talk to them.

Fast forward to today and apparently both the student and my CT didn't understand why I was so angry.  CT tells me she was shocked about what I did and I should try to understand that students have different personalities.  Am I missing something here?  Like I said I'm very lenient with the students in general but they were taking the p*ss.

This exact thing happened to me once, but with a comic book. I told him in increasing tone 3 times to keep the book in his bag as we are not doing that. We are doing my class. The last time he did it I lost my sh!t. Other students were shocked as I'm as chilled as they come but asking the same thing 4 times (including hand signals and acting in case he didn't understand) was too much.

For the first time since living here, I experienced the "please understand their unique situation..." and God has it wound me up.

Generally I'm very lenient with the students and gentle.  Very rarely lose my temper.  Last week a group of four students sitting at the back of the class weren't listening and had their wallets out on the desk with cards and money etc chatting quietly.  I walked over and gently told them to put it all away.  They did.  Walked back to the front to continue the class and within ten seconds they had their wallets out again and continued their chat.  Walked back again and told them much more firmly to put them away which they did.  Walked back to the front and again saw that they had pulled their wallets, cards and money out.  I saw red, marched over and shouted at them.  CT took them out to talk to them.

Fast forward to today and apparently both the student and my CT didn't understand why I was so angry.  CT tells me she was shocked about what I did and I should try to understand that students have different personalities.  Am I missing something here?  Like I said I'm very lenient with the students in general but they were taking the p*ss.

classic

"they are just kids... please understand them.... they don't know how to behave"

well, how about the teachers TEACH them how to behave, then? isn't that, umm, your actual job?

For the first time since living here, I experienced the "please understand their unique situation..." and God has it wound me up.

Generally I'm very lenient with the students and gentle.  Very rarely lose my temper.  Last week a group of four students sitting at the back of the class weren't listening and had their wallets out on the desk with cards and money etc chatting quietly.  I walked over and gently told them to put it all away.  They did.  Walked back to the front to continue the class and within ten seconds they had their wallets out again and continued their chat.  Walked back again and told them much more firmly to put them away which they did.  Walked back to the front and again saw that they had pulled their wallets, cards and money out.  I saw red, marched over and shouted at them.  CT took them out to talk to them.

Fast forward to today and apparently both the student and my CT didn't understand why I was so angry.  CT tells me she was shocked about what I did and I should try to understand that students have different personalities.  Am I missing something here?  Like I said I'm very lenient with the students in general but they were taking the p*ss.

classic

"they are just kids... please understand them.... they don't know how to behave"

well, how about the teachers TEACH them how to behave, then? isn't that, umm, your actual job?

I fukking hate when kids look at you, like "What? What's the big deal?"

Like, no. NO. You know you're not in comic class. One of my students forgets his book all the time and I tell him to go get it and he gives me this look like "What? What's the big problem?"

Like, f off. You KNOW it's English class, every other bloody student has their book, don't give me this crap.

If they got sore about having to go get it, I understand that. They don't want to walk. It's stupid, but I get it.

It's the "Jesus, what's the big deal?" look that drives me right up the wall. Don't act stupid, kid. You know that classes require books, ya little shit.

so many kids don't even arrive with a pencil. this would never be acceptable in england (at least, when i was at school). like, what are you doing, kid?

so many kids don't even arrive with a pencil. this would never be acceptable in england (at least, when i was at school). like, what are you doing, kid?

"OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H, do I need a pencil in a 40 minute class that covers WRITING? My mom didn't tell me this morning if I needed a pencil for school and she didn't tape it to my hand."

*flips table*

For the first time since living here, I experienced the "please understand their unique situation..." and God has it wound me up.

Generally I'm very lenient with the students and gentle.  Very rarely lose my temper.  Last week a group of four students sitting at the back of the class weren't listening and had their wallets out on the desk with cards and money etc chatting quietly.  I walked over and gently told them to put it all away.  They did.  Walked back to the front to continue the class and within ten seconds they had their wallets out again and continued their chat.  Walked back again and told them much more firmly to put them away which they did.  Walked back to the front and again saw that they had pulled their wallets, cards and money out.  I saw red, marched over and shouted at them.  CT took them out to talk to them.

Fast forward to today and apparently both the student and my CT didn't understand why I was so angry.  CT tells me she was shocked about what I did and I should try to understand that students have different personalities.  Am I missing something here?  Like I said I'm very lenient with the students in general but they were taking the p*ss.

classic

"they are just kids... please understand them.... they don't know how to behave"

well, how about the teachers TEACH them how to behave, then? isn't that, umm, your actual job?

No, it's the parents jobs.

What you're seeing here is the classic "I'm scared shitless of these little brats complaining to their parents and since my spine has become rubberized from years spent bowing/grovelling, I can't stand up for myself or justify any discipline strategy".

Last month, I gave one truly despicable kid punishment (writing out) and made him sit alone (he's a constant distraction when he's around his friend). Later, the spineless HR teacher, too chicken to talk to me about the situation (she can speak English rather well), relays the concerns to my supposed CT (has never been in class once this year).
He tries to pussyfoot by saying that he knows the student gives problems in every class, but everyone is afraid that he'll complain to his mom if he thinks we're "picking on him" and if I can't "be fair"... as if to insult and imply that I was being unfair.

I pretty much said IDGAF. I've been here long enough to know that him telling his mom will amount to absolutely nothing. I've ignored their threats/warning kept up with my discipline and guess what happened? The student in question still tries his luck now and then, but quickly settles down once I give him a single warning.

Kids are lazy. A lot of my students have taken to "forgetting" their books at home. I suspect that they leave them in their homeroom in order to avoid having to do the bookwork that I'm forced to force them do. Some of the more intrepid students also "forget" their pens and pencils.
   
   A month ago I made a "lines" template, and now bring a dozen or so to class. If a student "forgets" their book, they write the answers on the blank side, then stay after class to write "I will bring my textbook / pencil / notebook to English class!" a dozen or so times. 
   Not surprisingly, they seem a lot less forgetful recently!

Attachment included for your tormenting pleasure!

Yep...all of that (the past three/four posts). 

These brain-dead  shanks are so unable to imagine as to why they would need to bring a pencil/ notebook and an eraser to their English academy.  If they do, they spend about 25 minutes of the time dropping their pencils on the floor and picking them up...constantly. 

I don't fool around when it comes to simple things like that and I don't let any K-teacher, school or parent, try to deflect the issue and blame me for that nonsense.

Bring phucking pencil.....(yes, flips table).

You know....these spineless people amaze me because Korea is now a service society.  And yet,..I still cannot get a pizza made the way I want.  All I wanted was a phucking fresh CHEESE pizza (made at E-Mart) and they could not do it.  But they can make combination pizza.............. this pucking place, these phucking people. 

I also "love" it when these nancy boys, never having to clean up after themselves, walk in class like conquering hero with ice cream or some other food that will drip and cause a nasty mess.  What follows?...a mess, with the dinglerrie's just looking at it, then look at me as if I'm going to clean it up.

Hell no....


I don't have many issues/problems with the girls, though (elementary).  They always work harder, are prepared and try NOT to phuck up.  The boys have about as much use as a bar of soap covered in someone else's pubic hair.

On that note, I better change gears or I very well may end up being a shark in the water waiting for the first smell of blood.  I already am anticipating an issue with one of my Korean co-teachers (as she was snooping around yesterday, getting in my firing lane, trying to tell me about a  mistake I made in which I knew...and kept telling her "I know"...while she tries to keep going at it).

Sweet Baby Jesus, get me through this day.

Yep...all of that (the past three/four posts). 

These brain-dead  shanks are so unable to imagine as to why they would need to bring a pencil/ notebook and an eraser to their English academy.  If they do, they spend about 25 minutes of the time dropping their pencils on the floor and picking them up...constantly. 

I don't fool around when it comes to simple things like that and I don't let any K-teacher, school or parent, try to deflect the issue and blame me for that nonsense.

Bring phucking pencil.....(yes, flips table).

You know....these spineless people amaze me because Korea is now a service society.  And yet,..I still cannot get a pizza made the way I want.  All I wanted was a phucking fresh CHEESE pizza (made at E-Mart) and they could not do it.  But they can make combination pizza.............. this pucking place, these phucking people.

There was a pizza place I went to in my first year, the only thing they needed to know was the pizza size (as it was the only inconsistent part of my order - was always a medium or large)
and EVERY worker there knew my order by heart. I managed to skip the long line one christmas, cause the lady at the front hadn't decided and the workers knew my order. :p

I also "love" it when these nancy boys, never having to clean up after themselves, walk in class like conquering hero with ice cream or some other food that will drip and cause a nasty mess.  What follows?...a mess, with the dinglerrie's just looking at it, then look at me as if I'm going to clean it up.

That's one thing I'll always tell my students. I'm not your mom. Your mess is yours. I'm not gonna follow you around with a kleenex and wipe your nose for you.

The worst is when you tell them to throw something away or recycle something and then they shove it in their desk. I have to, have to wonder........... What the hell is wrong in their brain? This isn't a language issue, it doesn't matter how good or how poor their English is.

What are the sheer odds that my Charlie Brown teacher ass voice meant throw all this crap into your desk? If the kids genuinely think that I want all the garbage to just be packed into all the desks, then they're beyond help.

I think everyone here needs to remember a few things-
1) Kids everywhere love to wind up their teachers. You may say this was never done during your time as a kid, but I suspect that in at least one class, you and your friends did something to get the teacher going. Especially when a good chunk of people on this forum are people who have tales of drunken misadventure for much of their 20s. If you did that when you were 28, odds are you did that when you were 8.
2) Kids everywhere love to invent ways to try and get out of schoolwork. It's all part of the game. Also, kids are messy everywhere. I know you think you were a model of hygiene and trash disposal, but one feel on the inside of a 3rd grade desk back home and you'll quickly realize how universal this is. Enjoy the various things things that your hand will feel/become attached to
3) If you want to discipline, increase in severity the response, not your tone. Explode with giving them extra assignments or cleanup duty. Not exploding with screaming and yelling.

I think everyone here needs to remember one thing-

The thread title... 

I think everyone here needs to remember a few things-
1) Kids everywhere love to wind up their teachers. You may say this was never done during your time as a kid, but I suspect that in at least one class, you and your friends did something to get the teacher going. Especially when a good chunk of people on this forum are people who have tales of drunken misadventure for much of their 20s. If you did that when you were 28, odds are you did that when you were 8.
2) Kids everywhere love to invent ways to try and get out of schoolwork. It's all part of the game. Also, kids are messy everywhere. I know you think you were a model of hygiene and trash disposal, but one feel on the inside of a 3rd grade desk back home and you'll quickly realize how universal this is. Enjoy the various things things that your hand will feel/become attached to
3) If you want to discipline, increase in severity the response, not your tone. Explode with giving them extra assignments or cleanup duty. Not exploding with screaming and yelling.

     All true.
     But the tables have turned (and/or have been flipped), and now part of our job is to discourage the behaviours that are detrimental to the establishment of safe and productive learning environments. It can be difficult, and it can be frustrating. I agree that yelling rarely accomplishes much, but on the other hand, not all of us have the luxury of schools that have our backs (or even schools that don't actively sabotage our disciplinary measures).
  I can do what I like with my kiddos (within reason: my tightrope and sharktank idea was vetoed), and it's a lot easier to manage our own irritation when we can enforce our classroom rules and know that we're not going to be blamed for our students' misbehaviours. If I had to put up with some of the crap that certain hagwon teachers do, I'd probably be a lot less even tempered too. :(

so many kids don't even arrive with a pencil. this would never be acceptable in england (at least, when i was at school). like, what are you doing, kid?

"OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H, do I need a pencil in a 40 minute class that covers WRITING? My mom didn't tell me this morning if I needed a pencil for school and she didn't tape it to my hand."

*flips table*

well, i have one friend who majored in young learners (kindy age) and he worked in the US teaching kindy. he says he was quite culture shocked coming to korea teaching kindy, as they seemed wayyyy behind (behaviour, doing things for themselves) than the US kids.

same goes for elementary too. teachers treat kids like babies and let them get away with a lot. kids themselves act like babies. my little cousin of elementary age seems x100000 times more mature than any korean kid of that age i ever taught. pretty crazy the difference

I also "love" it when these nancy boys, never having to clean up after themselves, walk in class like conquering hero with ice cream or some other food that will drip and cause a nasty mess.  What follows?...a mess, with the dinglerrie's just looking at it, then look at me as if I'm going to clean it up.

That's one thing I'll always tell my students. I'm not your mom. Your mess is yours. I'm not gonna follow you around with a kleenex and wipe your nose for you.

The worst is when you tell them to throw something away or recycle something and then they shove it in their desk. I have to, have to wonder........... What the hell is wrong in their brain? This isn't a language issue, it doesn't matter how good or how poor their English is.

What are the sheer odds that my Charlie Brown teacher ass voice meant throw all this crap into your desk? If the kids genuinely think that I want all the garbage to just be packed into all the desks, then they're beyond help.

the articles on bbc, etc saying how korean/japanese kids have a lot of respect for the schools, as it's their duty to clean it. i mean, i can't comment on japan, but korea? ha ha ha bbc, that's a good one

All I wanted was a phucking fresh CHEESE pizza (made at E-Mart) and they could not do it.  But they can make combination pizza.............. this pucking place, these phucking people.

It's probably done by POS software, so if no button for cheese pizza, they can't do it. Or get this, it's a miscommunication. Why? They're probably assuming you'll want a lower price, which they can't do.  Or, considering that most Korean pizza places DO offer Cheese Pizza, they might be thinking you're asking for a cheese pizza as though it's a menu item, and they're telling you "No, it's not a menu item."

Instead just order a combination pizza and say "Pepperoni baego;, etc. etc." That might make them understand that you're willing to pay full price, you just want things off. HOWEVER, they still might be unwilling because they're either A) Concerned their boss will pitch a fit B) Concerned some customers might suddenly demand cheese pizzas and then demand substantially lower prices

Here's the flip side to consider with Asian "lack of expression" and "just accepting things": Give me 50 Asian customers and they'll order 50 standard pizzas off of our standard menu and there will be virtually no fuss (not sure about here, where I imagine someone will get in a huff about their points card or some crap). They'll get their stuff 8 minutes after they order it, freshly baked, no mistakes. With one employee on the register and one on the makeline, I could probably get those 50 pizzas made and those people served in about 30-40 minutes total (the pizzas bake on a conveyor so total time is less than individual make time for each pizza- 1 pizza takes 8 minutes, but 2 pizzas take 9 minutes)

Give me 50 waygook customers and it would take significantly longer.
"No we don't have gluten-free crust"
"No our chicken isn't free-range"
"No we don't have vegetarian pepperoni"
"No, we don't have kosher bacon"

"Can I have you combination pizza, but with white sauce instead of tomato sauce. And no black olives. And can I substitute roasted red pepper for green pepper. And instead of sausage, can I have seasoned herbed chicken breast?"
"Seasoned herbed chicken breast will be $1 extra"
"What? Why?"

Of course with 50 different things being changed and customized, inevitably you get mistakes. During non-peak times, special requests are pretty easy. When the store is slammed and you have pizzas almost falling out of the oven because you're overworked and understaffed, all that individuality and customization adds another layer of issues and more chances for something to go wrong. And once one thing goes wrong it tends to back everything else up. The system is designed for efficiency and repetition and to be done by relatively unskilled labor. Yet the average customer treats a franchised quick service place as their personal chef.

Everything is a trade off. Back home I can get a pizza made just the way I want it. I'm also getting that factored into costs and order time and the odds that my food will arrive messed up.

Anyways, the average quick service food customer is an idiot. They believe they should be able to get a large pizza with up to 5 toppings, with wings and breadsticks and a soda for $20, delivered in 30 minutes. The store should also go through intense inspection and follow a list of regulations the size of James Joyce's 'Ulysses'. The employees should all be paid $15/hour with health insurance and who knows what else. The delivery vehicles should all be eco-friendly. And there should be a ton of people staffing the place at all times to ensure efficient service.