RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

I've never experienced so much "No, it can't be done" as I have in Korea. I don't get this much anymore, but I used to often ask for a smaller cup when I ordered an Americano because I like it short and strong (i.e., a long black). The conversation would often go like this:

Me: Can I have a small cup?
Server: *Silence*
Me: *Pointing at smaller cappuccino cup* Like this? This cup?
Server: *Lifts giant mug* This is Americano cup.
Me: Yes, can I have a smaller one?
Server: No.
Me: Really? I want a smaller coffee.
Server: No.

I should point out that some places would do it for me without complaint, so I'm not sure that I was asking for anything egregious.

It really is ridiculous how much that happens....it's like logic and reasoning or  critical/creative thinking are scary things

2018: Asked to run a class in local workshop, goes down a treat. Everyone happy.

2019: Asked to run same workshop as participants loved it. Discover 3 participants attended last year. They ask to switch to 'B' class (same topic). I say no problem.

Me: Hello workshop operator, these 3 participants would like to move to 'B' class to learn new perspective on the subject.
Operator: Sorry, thats not possible.
Me: They would just be moving to the next classroom along the hallway, 302 instead of 303. I can take 3 from that class no problem.
Operator: Again, thats not possible.
Me: Why?
Operator: Thats not possible.
Me: It is possible, they just sit in the other class instead of mine.
Operator: Not possible.

9 1/2 months then I'm out.

Not too long ago, I went to Baskin Robbins to treat myself to a 3 flavour ice-cream cup. Recently, they've started stacking the ice-cream sideways, I don't like that. I'd tell them to stack it bottom up and they'd happily oblige, not today. While ordering, I asked to have them stacked bottom to top. The new server completely ignored me and stacked them sideways, I repeated what I said and she shook her head, telling me it was "impossible". She kept at it and I told her I wasn't paying for the tub. Her co-workers (3 of them), spent a good 2min discussing the intricacies of such a complex issue before getting me a new ice-cream, stacked bottom up. 

For summer camp this year, I suggested that my CT and I repeat the scavenger hunt day we did last year; last year's students had an absolute blast and actually spoke a lot of English on the day, and since they were all 6 grade, none of the students signed up for camp would've done the activity. My CT refused on the grounds that the principal would think we're not "working hard" if we repeated last year's activity.

Yesterday, my wife's CT was busy arranging "Halloween Week" not day, but week, for the students. She'd planned to re-use some of the Halloween hats the school bought last year... notice, I said "bought", the idea that part of the fun was that kids should make their own Halloween costumes was apparently too plebeian. 
The pulled the hats out from storage and noticed they were a bit dirty after being in storage for so long. My wife suggested they pop over to the laundromat, next to the school, and get everything washed and tumble dried for like 3 bucks.
"Impossible", everything had to be billed on the school's credit card. The CT goes to the dry-cleaners and pays 120 000 won to dry clean a bunch of crappy Halloween hats! The dry cleaning bill was probably triple the price of all the hats, she might as well just buy new ones! My wife told her to cancel and even offered to take the hats to our apartment and wash them out for free.
"Impossible" The CT couldn't comprehend such a reckless waste of money... and people think NETs in public schools are a waste of money.


What you and I have been the victim of is by far the thing I'll be glad to be rid of once I leave Korea, KLOGIC.
I'll miss things about Korea and I'm grateful for the opportunities it's provided me, but KLOGIC can piss right off.

Got told off for walking over to vacant teachers desk and flipping her iphone to silent.

Apparently KAKAO KAKAO KAKAO is the good guy here. 

Got told off for walking over to vacant teachers desk and flipping her iphone to silent.

Apparently KAKAO KAKAO KAKAO is the good guy here. 

Ding Ding DING

KAKAO T

Got told off for walking over to vacant teachers desk and flipping her iphone to silent.

Apparently KAKAO KAKAO KAKAO is the good guy here. 

I mean, that's annoying, but that doesn't give you the right to touch other people's stuff. If someone came and touched anything on my desk, I'd tell them off, too.
Especially my phone.

even though I see others leaving early all the time.....

Too bad you're not a DayNinja, you could sneak out.

What would a DayNinja wear?

Oh, me, me, me!!  It's a popular misconception that ninjas always wear black.  At night maybe, but their main aim is to blend in, so they wear normal clothes so as not to look conspicuous.

Ninja also wore red. Red in battle can/has a psychological effect, which can cause hesitation in battle.
Learnt that in ninja training in Japan. I've done ninja weapons training in Japan. :D (Although. I'm not very good )

A New Zealand Ninja?  Get out of here!

Dressed as a sheep, I bet!

Yeap! NZ Sheep ninja. It's a thing NO ONE would see coming.

even though I see others leaving early all the time.....

Too bad you're not a DayNinja, you could sneak out.

What would a DayNinja wear?

Oh, me, me, me!!  It's a popular misconception that ninjas always wear black.  At night maybe, but their main aim is to blend in, so they wear normal clothes so as not to look conspicuous.

Ninja also wore red. Red in battle can/has a psychological effect, which can cause hesitation in battle.
Learnt that in ninja training in Japan. I've done ninja weapons training in Japan. :D (Although. I'm not very good )

A New Zealand Ninja?  Get out of here!

Dressed as a sheep, I bet!

Yeap! NZ Sheep ninja. It's a thing NO ONE would see coming.

To the untrained eye, there is no danger.  But I can count at least 5 New Zealand ninjas there.



Fraught with danger.

Got told off for walking over to vacant teachers desk and flipping her iphone to silent.

Apparently KAKAO KAKAO KAKAO is the good guy here. 

I mean, that's annoying, but that doesn't give you the right to touch other people's stuff. If someone came and touched anything on my desk, I'd tell them off, too.
Especially my phone.

He didn't go through her personal photos, just flipped it over. I always feel it's not okay to call others out in this country. For example, some dickhead kept checking his phone in the cinema, so I told him to stop it. Everyone looked at me like i was the one in the wrong and my wife called me rude after the film ended. Same with escalators, etc. If someone blocks the walking side, no one ever says anything

Got told off for walking over to vacant teachers desk and flipping her iphone to silent.

Apparently KAKAO KAKAO KAKAO is the good guy here. 

I mean, that's annoying, but that doesn't give you the right to touch other people's stuff. If someone came and touched anything on my desk, I'd tell them off, too.
Especially my phone.

Why? It was nothing intrusive. It was simply like turning off the TV or radio.

He didn't go through her personal photos, just flipped it over. I always feel it's not okay to call others out in this country. For example, some dickhead kept checking his phone in the cinema, so I told him to stop it. Everyone looked at me like i was the one in the wrong and my wife called me rude after the film ended. Same with escalators, etc. If someone blocks the walking side, no one ever says anything

Well as for the phone thing, I'm not one to go against Avec's judgment here as I don't know the school dynamics and culture, but I can easily imagine someone ranting about how one of the Korean staff just walked over in a huff and touched their phone to put it on silent. I mean, this is kind of easy to imagine a rant with the situations reversed.

I've seen Koreans tell others off. Rarely but it does.

As for escalators there are two ways- you can politely ask them to move. I've done that. However if it's dipshit punk kids I'll either just growl "MOVE" or just straight up walk through them.

The lack of calling people out is the negative side effect of the same mentality that sees generally lower street crime here. Or I guess you could say the lower street crime rate is one positive effect of the negative mentality of not Calling anything out.

Got told off for walking over to vacant teachers desk and flipping her iphone to silent.

Apparently KAKAO KAKAO KAKAO is the good guy here. 

I mean, that's annoying, but that doesn't give you the right to touch other people's stuff. If someone came and touched anything on my desk, I'd tell them off, too.
Especially my phone.

Why? It was nothing intrusive. It was simply like turning off the TV or radio.

With you on this one.  Part of this was discussed on that thread about 'Koreans and Noise' and there have been loads of times when I was sat in the teachers' room and the maths teacher's phone was ringing on full volume when he was in class.  Such a depressing ringtone too.  The Kakao thing is fukcing annoying too, especially if that person is in some active chat group. 

It really is ridiculous how much that happens....it's like logic and reasoning or  critical/creative thinking are scary things

Speaking as someone who worked in foodservice, there were a lot of things we couldn't do which seemed "illogical" but were actually rules, and yes, some of them seemed illogical to us employees as well.

Here's something to remember- A lot of times the person serving you is a minimum wage schlep with a rather indifferent espirit de corps. Often they aren't the best and brightest as well. And often you are about the 20th person of the day to ask for something outside the normal process or gripe at them about something. Add to that a lot of things are computerized and systemized and the slightest deviation can take a significant amount of extra time to deal with and any irregularities can get you accused of theft by an utter ass of a manager. Not to mention you might have a bunch of other customers to deal with, a bunch of people waiting in line, and you don't have time to give the person a 5 minute explanation of the situation. And finally, you might not have been the first person to make this request. Someone else might have and something bad might have resulted. The whole concept relies on customers making relatively standardized orders and a low-wage person churning out as much product as possible.

Now top it all off with the fact that the employee might have extremely limited English skills. And speaking from experience, food service employees back home and I'm guessing here, REALLY don't like being griped at and demanded of by foreign customers. It does trigger some extra level of hostility. A lot of times subtle cues for politeness are unfamiliar to foreign customers and they (usually unintentionally) can come off rude due to not using the subtle cues either in tone or body language or especially with language that natives rely upon to make those kinds of requests or complaints politely. And in the heat of the moment, that can get to people, perhaps even unconsciously and unintentionally. Even if you think your Korean is good, you might be missing out on some subtle cues or it might not be as good as you think it is.

Lastly, I've noticed a lot of these kinds of stories tend to involve the Korea haters and moaners and I have the sneaking suspicion that their attitude here carries over into their interactions and that attitude can be picked up. People who are naturally affable and easy-going tend to be able to get these things done and smooth over these kinds of wrinkles, even with the language and culture barrier.

Either that or these stories DO involve people who have never worked foodservice or a job that has similar levels of high-paceds, systemized customer interaction that has frequent requests (some of them ridiculous or unreasonable) and deals with a constant stream of customer complaints. Off the top of my head, and this was back home, one of my friends was complaining about how they had to pay for extra ketchup packets. As a foodservice veteran, I had to explain to him why this was a thing and that anyone who has worked food service knows the nightmare that can result from having free ketchups. The thing is, even after that explanation he still didn't really "get it". Some people just aren't that good at understanding systems and conceptualizing the whole process and how there are negative actors out there and they aren't the only customer.

As for the classroom example, some of these same concepts can be applied to bureaucracy and internal office dealings as well.

Everyone looked at me like i was the one in the wrong and my wife called me rude after the film ended. Same with escalators, etc. If someone blocks the walking side, no one ever says anything.

Actually, from what I understand, this is where cultural differences come into play. In Korea, people walking up and down the escalators is strongly discouraged. I've seen posters in the subway with little pictures showing that one shouldn't be walking as it's a "safety hazard". Most people don't think to stand to the side because local etiquette doesn't require them to.
   They're not being inconsiderate or ignorant, they just have a slightly different idea of what is polite escalator behaviour.

even though I see others leaving early all the time.....

Too bad you're not a DayNinja, you could sneak out.

What would a DayNinja wear?

Oh, me, me, me!!  It's a popular misconception that ninjas always wear black.  At night maybe, but their main aim is to blend in, so they wear normal clothes so as not to look conspicuous.

Ninja also wore red. Red in battle can/has a psychological effect, which can cause hesitation in battle.
Learnt that in ninja training in Japan. I've done ninja weapons training in Japan. :D (Although. I'm not very good )

A New Zealand Ninja?  Get out of here!

Dressed as a sheep, I bet!

Yeap! NZ Sheep ninja. It's a thing NO ONE would see coming.

To the untrained eye, there is no danger.  But I can count at least 5 New Zealand ninjas there.



Fraught with danger.

Death by sheep ninja is the biggest cause of death in NZ. True story.
NZ is an extremely dangerous place because of them. Best to avoid the place, if you can.

He didn't go through her personal photos, just flipped it over. I always feel it's not okay to call others out in this country. For example, some dickhead kept checking his phone in the cinema, so I told him to stop it. Everyone looked at me like i was the one in the wrong and my wife called me rude after the film ended. Same with escalators, etc. If someone blocks the walking side, no one ever says anything

Well as for the phone thing, I'm not one to go against Avec's judgment here as I don't know the school dynamics and culture, but I can easily imagine someone ranting about how one of the Korean staff just walked over in a huff and touched their phone to put it on silent. I mean, this is kind of easy to imagine a rant with the situations reversed.

I've seen Koreans tell others off. Rarely but it does.

As for escalators there are two ways- you can politely ask them to move. I've done that. However if it's dipshit punk kids I'll either just growl "MOVE" or just straight up walk through them.

The lack of calling people out is the negative side effect of the same mentality that sees generally lower street crime here. Or I guess you could say the lower street crime rate is one positive effect of the negative mentality of not Calling anything out.

true, i can actually imagine that post in here. although not calling people out here is what allows for a lot of shitty behevaiour e.g. even not properly sorting your rubbish, as was mentioneds yesterday. it's possibelt o call people out without expecting violence. this would happen in england. blocking the escalator? you're gonna get asked to move. doesn't always lead to violence ;)

Everyone looked at me like i was the one in the wrong and my wife called me rude after the film ended. Same with escalators, etc. If someone blocks the walking side, no one ever says anything.

Actually, from what I understand, this is where cultural differences come into play. In Korea, people walking up and down the escalators is strongly discouraged. I've seen posters in the subway with little pictures showing that one shouldn't be walking as it's a "safety hazard". Most people don't think to stand to the side because local etiquette doesn't require them to.
   They're not being inconsiderate or ignorant, they just have a slightly different idea of what is polite escalator behaviour.

yeah i'm calling bollocks here. people are *always* walking up and down. everyone knows this. everyone knows right = stand, left = walk. everyone. but nobody ever calls out people for blocking the way.

Everyone looked at me like i was the one in the wrong and my wife called me rude after the film ended. Same with escalators, etc. If someone blocks the walking side, no one ever says anything.

Actually, from what I understand, this is where cultural differences come into play. In Korea, people walking up and down the escalators is strongly discouraged. I've seen posters in the subway with little pictures showing that one shouldn't be walking as it's a "safety hazard". Most people don't think to stand to the side because local etiquette doesn't require them to.
   They're not being inconsiderate or ignorant, they just have a slightly different idea of what is polite escalator behaviour.

Ehh, sort of depends.

I've seen everyone do the stand on the right thing and things flow and most of the time if you're coming down the left and someone's blocking it, they'll move or the person they're talking to will move them. Usually it's either some old person who doesn't think they have to move or dipshit kids.

That being said, there was a study done in England (or was it Japan?) where depending on how long they were and how many people were using them, it was actually more efficient overall for people to stand on both sides. Something about how the two disparate groups of lines would result in a riding line that would stretch some distance. But this only works in specific circumstances.

For the average station with light-medium traffic I think stand on the right is the better way to go.

According to impeccable sources:
In the early 2000s, a campaign was "effectively" launched to encourage standing only on the right side to allow other "busy" passengers to walk on the left.

Before long, the formula was causing adverse effects such as walkers bumping against standers or falling down while walking or running. So, the authority discouraged walking and instead encouraged people to stand on both sides.

Source: Impeccable. 

That being said, there was a study done in England (or was it Japan?) where depending on how long they were and how many people were using them, it was actually more efficient overall for people to stand on both sides. Something about how the two disparate groups of lines would result in a riding line that would stretch some distance. But this only works in specific circumstances.

I saw a documentary about the London underground where one of the stewards(?) tried to get people to stand on both sides during the rush hour instead of one side walking. the theory was more people could move up the escalator at any given time, as the side for walking was often empty.  Anyway the experiment failed as people continued to walk.

As far as Korea , or Seoul is concerned, I travel a lot on the subway and walking seems to be acceptable during rush hours, or very busy stations, but kind of frowned upon, or at least not done so much, at other times. 

That being said, there was a study done in England (or was it Japan?) where depending on how long they were and how many people were using them, it was actually more efficient overall for people to stand on both sides. Something about how the two disparate groups of lines would result in a riding line that would stretch some distance. But this only works in specific circumstances.

I saw a documentary about the London underground where one of the stewards(?) tried to get people to stand on both sides during the rush hour instead of one side walking. the theory was more people could move up the escalator at any given time, as the side for walking was often empty.  Anyway the experiment failed as people continued to walk.

yeah, i'm sure *in therory* it works, but people who want to stand don't care if it takes longer, and people  who walk get to where they're going quicker. so, let people do whichever they want. but don't block the way for people who want to walk ffs

yeah, i'm sure *in therory* it works, but people who want to stand don't care if it takes longer, and people  who walk get to where they're going quicker. so, let people do whichever they want. but don't block the way for people who want to walk ffs

While personally I agree as an individual, I can understand that a person in charge of implementing a system, where efficiency and data are emphasized to a greater degree than personal experience, would try and support the no-walking policy and would encourage different behavior. Again, not that I agree with this, just that I understand it.

I do think the people doing these studies ignored, as you said, personal preference in waiting and whether people are willing to accept longer times for not walking vs. those emphasizing speed. Seems to be a bit of a blindspot in all this research. I imagine that if such preferences were somehow analyzed and adjusted for, then it would take an absolute utter horde of people and some serious chaos.

Speaking of all of this, Itaewon station on Halloween is a tragedy waiting to happen.