RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

Like, duh, not having your phone on silent or vibrate is inconsiderate and rude and also dumb. Especially in an office. And especially especially if you're not even in the office to hear it.

But still. Don't touch other people's stuff.

So how far does that go? You are having a meeting in the office and someone who's out of the room's phone rings incessantly, disrupting the meeting. Can't touch it? The "don't touch people's stuff" rule is so sacred that it overrides all common sense?

It's like we have these social norms that should be respected, like don't touch people's shit. But technology and the world has moved ahead of them. If someone had a personal radio on their desk that they left blasting to go teach, can i turn that off? I think it would be expected that I would. Cell phones are a relatively recent innovation, and certainly group chats where you can be receiving multiple notifications per minute are very recent. So we apply the old social ideas to them, as we should. But the other side has to hold up their side of the social contract. You dont want me to touch your shit, then have the courtesy to set the phone to silent. You can't do that? You have foregone your right to the "dont touch my shit" social provision.

The Confucian culture is the reason many westerners, like myself, have a difficult time in Korea, but we're on their turf.

We all might just be blowing this whole thing out of proportion and none of your co-workers gives a hoot.

I agree.  Usually, we weigh up situations case by case.  You react based on what will give you the best outcome.  I suspect judging from Frite's reaction, he'd weigh up the pros and cons of the situation and did what he did.  If it were the VP's phone then he probably wouldn't have done it.  Like you said, bar one co-worker who could be a pain in the bum the whole time, no one else would give a shit.  Or possibly, the other teachers were happy that he did it because they'd just sit and bear it. 

Like the kid around your way who keeps damaging cars, you thought about it, wanted to teach the kid a lesson, went about it the best way to get the best outcome with minimal fuss, the parents got dragged into it and then you realised that they were probably used to him doing this.  I suspect in your case, if it had been a Korean person whose car had been damaged, there would have been similar reactions and ramifications but to a different timescale, all leading to the embarrassment and financial burden of the parents and the total ignorance of their kid.  I think being teachers here, or for my part anyway, has taught me to be more assertive.  If my class is not going well, then I'll do something about it.  Some Korean teachers, just carry on regardless.  It shows more initiative to stop something that is not working or if there is a problem and try to fix it in real-time, than just put up with a stupid situation.  I know we've had these discussions a number of times here about how Koreans aren't really taught to do this with their silly Confucian nonsense. 

Or we may just be blowing this out of all proportion....

wow almost the same thing just happened to me a minute ago. my co-teacher's phone was buzzing super loudly (phone + glass desk = noise). i let it ring the first time and then they called again so i just picked it up and put it on top of some papers to muffle the sound. no one said anything about it

wow almost the same thing just happened to me a minute ago. my co-teacher's phone was buzzing super loudly (phone + glass desk = noise). i let it ring the first time and then they called again so i just picked it up and put it on top of some papers to muffle the sound. no one said anything about it

YOU TOUCHED SOMEONE ELSE'S PHONE YOU THOUGHTLESS BASTARD.

No one is going to see the messages. On an iPhone it's a switch on the side. On  a Samsung, it's turn the screen on, drag the top bar down, set to silent. You can't see the messages on kakao on the lock screen, it just has the kakao icon.

If you don't have a lock screen then that's your problem.

wow almost the same thing just happened to me a minute ago. my co-teacher's phone was buzzing super loudly (phone + glass desk = noise). i let it ring the first time and then they called again so i just picked it up and put it on top of some papers to muffle the sound. no one said anything about it

Go to the sink and get a glass.  Fill the glass with water.  Go back to the desk and pick up the phone.  In full view of all the other teachers, plop the phone in the glass of water.  Shaking your head while you do it.  Then put the glass on the culprit's desk.  Go back to your seat and sit down. 

If someone turned my phone to silent while I wasn't even in the room, I wouldn't even realise it wasn't already on silent. 

I'd also feel embarrassed for being so unprofessional at work that my phone was ringing and shouting Kakao at the top of it's lungs in the teachers office.

I've told people to turn their phones off in cinemas on multiple occasions no matter their age. If you feel like someone sitting in front of you in a cinema is entitled to sit on their phone during a movie (forbidden obviously) gets a pass from Confucianism you need to take the quilt off. I had one guy on the phone talking for over 2 minutes in Avengers end game and old Avec was the only one with any balls to tell him to get out or stfu. Y'all ain't cultural angels, you're scared little foreigners.

a bit related: the public school teacher's office i used to work in had the most amount of drama i've ever seen in an office. it was ridiculous. teachers acting more childish than the actual students i would teach

i'm not surrpsied with the drama-aftermath of turning a teacher's phone over - everyone seems to act like absolute babies in school offices

If someone turned my phone to silent while I wasn't even in the room, I wouldn't even realise it wasn't already on silent. 

I'd also feel embarrassed for being so unprofessional at work that my phone was ringing and shouting Kakao at the top of it's lungs in the teachers office.

Yeah, there is very little reason to have your phone with the alert on. If you're at home? I don't give a shit.

But ANYWHERE else, there are very, very few reasons. You're a doctor? Alright. Some sort of emergency professional? Alright.

But, no, sorry. Working in the VPs office? Hell no. Phones screens turn on when they get a message. Just leave the phone face up, FFS.

You leave to go to the bathroom?  PHONES HAVE A LIGHT ON THEM WITH DIFFERENT COLOURS TO ALERT YOU WHAT KIND OF THING HAPPENED FOR AN ALERT.

Hell, there's no real reason to even have it on vibrate most of the time. If I had a little machine on my desk that said a random English word at a decent decibel level every four minutes, everyone around me would tell me to get rid of the f-ing thing, a phone is no different.

a bit related: the public school teacher's office i used to work in had the most amount of drama i've ever seen in an office. it was ridiculous. teachers acting more childish than the actual students i would teach

i'm not surrpsied with the drama-aftermath of turning a teacher's phone over - everyone seems to act like absolute babies in school offices

I could imagine that but in my middle school here where i work i am really impressed by the professional attitude that everyone has. They are great people - unless they all gossip in Korean. I don't feel like they gossip and I've never seen anyone get heated or even frustrated.  The senior teacher here is so nice and she always makes an effort to speak to me and help me with Korean. Maybe this is an abnormally good staff room.

Actually one day a students mom had a meltdown in our staff room. She was crying and then screaming and then on the floor kicking the floor. It was ridiculous. I think she was upset that  her son was having ongoing problems with a teacher there.  She might have been mentally unstable. After when i asked about it, the teachers here didn't say much and were pretty calm about it. 

Rant:
I'm at school and I'm getting some work done in the teacher's lounge. I have to go use the bathroom. Now I'm not one of those people who takes my phone into the bathroom. That's just gross. Anyways, I come back and I see the local douchejosshi standing and tapping on my phone. He then gives me this glare and walks back to his desk. This is in front of everybody and now they're all staring at me. Obviously it's "Make the foreigner feel uncomfortable again" time. Apparently my phone was loud or something, but it's not like they're quiet with their lip-smacking. Anyways, what passive-aggressive nonsense. He could have just told me politely and not been an utter douche about it. We all make mistakes but some Koreans take that as an excuse to just lord it over you. I'm so sick of this Confucian crap of finding every little thing wrong with you and having people constantly judge you on it and comment on it like my weight, or how I should hold this that way or do that.

(Reality of the situation- Guy who turned off the phone was afraid you thought he was looking through it for d*ck pics. No one else cared, just like how probably in Avec's case people glanced over and went back to thinking about some crap they're buying on 11st.) I do think it can come across as rude to touch other people's stuff. At the same time I also like the idea that we might be getting all worked up over nothing in this case.

well, the high school i worked at was great

but the elementary schools? christ. i've seen grown adults have actual tantrums. the most memorable was a 50 year old woman screaming, sobbing, stamping her feet. i thought something terrible had happened, something truly awful. turns out...someone put the printer next to her desk

In the West, a person usually gets promoted when they show some gumption, a solid work-ethic etc.
In Korea, you get promoted based on your age your relationship with your seniors and you ability to stick to the rules... essentially, "maintaining the Confucian harmony".

When you ask your CT if you can leave early, even if it's 10min, by agreeing she officially gives you permission to break the rules. Should another staff member ask where you're off to and you blab, you could jeopardize her career. Petty and ridiculous, I know, but that's how Korea works. When you ask, unless you've got a really good relationship and your CT really trusts you, she's going to give you the official spiel.

You do realize that the west largely functioned on a seniority system until fairly recently. Basically post-WWII. And some of it still lingers today in companies where distinguishing employees is difficult and they want to avoid lawsuits. Not to mention how people now get promoted to meet diversity quotas and whatnot. And of course many still get promoted because of connections and how good you play ball. Saying this is uniquely Korean and non-Western is a bit of a stretch.

And yes, CYA to avoid liability is a thing in the West as well.

.... at Daiso yesterday.
I love Daiso.

 

Just don't mention it to a Korean.  Just now, I was in the main teacher's room.  My co-teacher mentioned about my newish sweater, and where I bought it.  I said 'Uniqlo'.  Wow!  Cue about 10 teachers all putting in their two cents about how I shouldn't be shopping in Uniqlo.     Weeping Jesus.  The Social Studies teacher even asked if I knew why Uniqlo is not good.  Of course I said, 'Yes', with a shrug.  I took the brunt of the nonsense with quiet aplomb and I'm still  my eyes now.  Adults!  Grown people!!  And, yes, I read about that Uniqlo advert that a small percentage of Koreans reacted to so that Uniqlo pulled it last week.  Blind nationalism really is a stupid thing.   

If someone turned my phone to silent while I wasn't even in the room, I wouldn't even realise it wasn't already on silent. 

I'd also feel embarrassed for being so unprofessional at work that my phone was ringing and shouting Kakao at the top of it's lungs in the teachers office.

Yeah, there is very little reason to have your phone with the alert on. If you're at home? I don't give a shit.

But ANYWHERE else, there are very, very few reasons. You're a doctor? Alright. Some sort of emergency professional? Alright.

But, no, sorry. Working in the VPs office? Hell no. Phones screens turn on when they get a message. Just leave the phone face up, FFS.

You leave to go to the bathroom?  PHONES HAVE A LIGHT ON THEM WITH DIFFERENT COLOURS TO ALERT YOU WHAT KIND OF THING HAPPENED FOR AN ALERT.

Hell, there's no real reason to even have it on vibrate most of the time. If I had a little machine on my desk that said a random English word at a decent decibel level every four minutes, everyone around me would tell me to get rid of the f-ing thing, a phone is no different.

I usually keep my phone on vibrate.
I rarely get calls, and message vibrations are short, but last long enough to notice them.
I also keep my phone on a book on my desk, or in my pocket, so it makes very little noise.

.... at Daiso yesterday.
I love Daiso.

 

Just don't mention it to a Korean.  Just now, I was in the main teacher's room.  My co-teacher mentioned about my newish sweater, and where I bought it.  I said 'Uniqlo'.  Wow!  Cue about 10 teachers all putting in their two cents about how I shouldn't be shopping in Uniqlo.     Weeping Jesus.  The Social Studies teacher even asked if I knew why Uniqlo is not good.  Of course I said, 'Yes', with a shrug.  I took the brunt of the nonsense with quiet aplomb and I'm still  my eyes now.  Adults!  Grown people!!  And, yes, I read about that Uniqlo advert that a small percentage of Koreans reacted to so that Uniqlo pulled it last week.  Blind nationalism really is a stupid thing.   

Long after you and your "The rest of the world should just think like me" butt are gone, the Koreans will still be dealing with the Japanese.

Long after you and your "The rest of the world should just think like me" butt are gone, the Koreans will still be dealing with the Japanese.

The way how China is aggressively expanding it's zones of control and influence, maybe not. 

.... at Daiso yesterday.
I love Daiso.

 

Just don't mention it to a Korean.  Just now, I was in the main teacher's room.  My co-teacher mentioned about my newish sweater, and where I bought it.  I said 'Uniqlo'.  Wow!  Cue about 10 teachers all putting in their two cents about how I shouldn't be shopping in Uniqlo.     Weeping Jesus.  The Social Studies teacher even asked if I knew why Uniqlo is not good.  Of course I said, 'Yes', with a shrug.  I took the brunt of the nonsense with quiet aplomb and I'm still  my eyes now.  Adults!  Grown people!!  And, yes, I read about that Uniqlo advert that a small percentage of Koreans reacted to so that Uniqlo pulled it last week.  Blind nationalism really is a stupid thing.   

Long after you and your "The rest of the world should just think like me" butt are gone, the Koreans will still be dealing with the Japanese.

"dealing with the japanese" and acting like an adult aren't mutually exclusive

.... at Daiso yesterday.
I love Daiso.

 

Just don't mention it to a Korean.  Just now, I was in the main teacher's room.  My co-teacher mentioned about my newish sweater, and where I bought it.  I said 'Uniqlo'.  Wow!  Cue about 10 teachers all putting in their two cents about how I shouldn't be shopping in Uniqlo.     Weeping Jesus.  The Social Studies teacher even asked if I knew why Uniqlo is not good.  Of course I said, 'Yes', with a shrug.  I took the brunt of the nonsense with quiet aplomb and I'm still  my eyes now.  Adults!  Grown people!!  And, yes, I read about that Uniqlo advert that a small percentage of Koreans reacted to so that Uniqlo pulled it last week.  Blind nationalism really is a stupid thing.   

Long after you and your "The rest of the world should just think like me" butt are gone, the Koreans will still be dealing with the Japanese.

"dealing with the japanese" and acting like an adult aren't mutually exclusive

Sometimes, I think 'Maybe, I'm a bit tough on little Martin', then I see his stupid hackneyed nonsense like this, and then I think, 'Nah!'. 

These are adults who been to Japan, many of them a number of times.  My VP was a Japanese teacher.  I was asked how much my sweater cost, like that was important.  Was it in the sale?  The Social Studies teacher, as I said, grilled me about if I knew why they don't like Japan at the moment.  Like I said, I took it.  No problems.  I don't think less of them, that's cool.  I get it that Martin in his Korean/Americaness has stupid nationalism flowing through him.  I, however, don't.  When this is all finished and things go back to 'normal', we'll still be shaking our heads at how nationalist fervour can remove the logic and rationality from someone in one fell swoop.