RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

With Korean ballads, it's probably one of the few genres, along with mumble-rap, which has NOTHING in it that I enjoy.

The audience for ballads is primarily women, who tend to listen to music differently (and view movies, TV, etc). As I mentioned for them they are much more interested in experiencing the emotions of the performer or actor than say in structure/technique/or even story. It's also why in the case of many of these ballads, performers will put their own touch on it and someone might listen to 5 versions of the same ballad song by 5 different singers. If this is not how you listen to music, and instead rely almost exclusively on the structural aspects, then I can see how it is inaccessible, just as technically sophisticated but comparatively emotionally barren or vocal-less music would have little appeal to a ballad listener. It can be hard for people more comfortable in technical things to have the emotional sensitivity and acceptance and comfort to be able to listen to songs that express pain, sadness, longing, regret, hope, love, passion, anger, etc. where those emotions can shift and might be subtle, and are often uncomfortable to observe and certainly uncomfortable to experience for people who pride themselves on dispassion and self-control.

Additionally, I think a big factor might be Korean language skill and context. If the lyrics of the song and it's situations like emotional or experiential resonance for you, you probably won't care about it as much. While that can be easy to overlook on a fun, simple trot song or a dance number, it's a lot harder with ballads.

Finally, and this should always be understood when talking about music in Korea, music here is a VERY social phenomenon. Going together to sing as a way to have fun and build relationships, while not unique to Korea, is certainly much more of a thing than in the West, save perhaps for church settings and African-American culture. In all of those settings, music is used as a point of commonality, rather than individuality and distinction. As such it needs to appeal to as broad a section of people as possible, and also be relatively easy to perform and sing.

Trot has a goofy, folksy and soviet-esque charm to it. If anything, trot has character.

Agree with this. Trot doesn't take itself too seriously. It's incredibly simplistic in most cases, but that's sort of the point. A simple song for simpler times and simpler living. And like I mentioned above, it sort of has that communal aspect to it. It's music the whole village can listen to.

Do you actually read what people write on here? Aristocrat was being racist about rock musicians and I called him out for it by doing a parody of being racist about Hip Hop musicians. Neither of us was talking about fans.

Yes you were parodying it. I think when Aristocrat mentioned those musicians, he was referring to amateur musicians, which would be more like fans and sort of represent the general rut and malaise that rock and its fans seem to be in, than professional artists.

I never usually read a bloated, verbose DeMartino post through to the end, but I read one of the above and I've concluded that he somehow equates length with veracity.  If he writes at great length people won't catch on to him just making sh*t up off the top of his head. 

Like this gem: DeMartino: The audience for ballads is primarily women, who tend to listen to music differently (and view movies, TV, etc). As I mentioned for them they are much more interested in experiencing the emotions of the performer or actor than say in structure/technique/or even story.

Haha, those silly skirts!  They don't even know what the song is about, in fact the singer is just reading a menu and they still got wobbly in the knees. 

Have you ever gone out with Koreans to live music places, or the places where one of the staff will get on a keyboard or drumkit to accompany the customer who wants to take the stage?  I have been dragged to these places as well as karaoke with a number of older Koreans and the men, far more than the women, get up and get misty eyed as they belt out some old favourite ballad.  My GF and her family members love finishing the evening at these places.  This, unfortunately, was not a one off experience for me. 

And to pre-empt the "Dude, did you read what I wrote? I said women are primarily the FANS of ballads, not the ones who sing them." But, logic and reason will tell us that the salaryman who enjoys getting up and singing a song he clearly has memorized and means something to him, must also be a fan of said song. 

Korea, I love you, but just because it's legally Autumn doesn't mean you get to turn the heat on.

How about actually thinking about what the temperature? It's 23 bloody degrees out, there's no need to have any heat on and you should actually have the AC on.

Korea, I love you, but just because it's legally Autumn doesn't mean you get to turn the heat on.

How about actually thinking about what the temperature? It's 23 bloody degrees out, there's no need to have any heat on and you should actually have the AC on.

yeah...there are some things about korea i will never, ever understand

It's September 1st, so all a/c must be off (fans ok) even though it's friggin 32 c outside! And little Jun-su is sweating in his jacket he won't take off because his mother told him to keep it on.

It happens every year.

Note: Jeju is very different. Kids there wear t-shirts in early November. There are actually PLENTY of differences between Koreans there and the mainland, especially among the youth. It's almost like another country. I spent 7 years on the mainland, then 7 years on Jeju, then the last 2.5 years back on the mainland, and my experiences here mirror my first seven years, with Jeju seeming like a foreign country.

It's September 1st, so all a/c must be off (fans ok) even though it's friggin 32 c outside! And little Jun-su is sweating in his jacket he won't take off because his mother told him to keep it on.

It happens every year.

Note: Jeju is very different. Kids there wear t-shirts in early November. There are actually PLENTY of differences between Koreans there and the mainland, especially among the youth. It's almost like another country. I spent 7 years on the mainland, then 7 years on Jeju, then the last 2.5 years back on the mainland, and my experiences here mirror my first seven years, with Jeju seeming like a foreign country.

To be fair, it’s not just Korea that does this.

I remember plenty of places in Canada (including schools) that required a “switch-over” to enable or disable the heating system.

I’m not sure what was involved, but once it was done, heat was on (or off, as the case may be.)

And..... how about them closing the public pools along the Han River in the middle of summer. Why?  because according to them winter has started around July 21st.

We not got anything better to moan about other than kpop and the temperature?

Is it just me or are K-dramas utterly crap?

Every single one (and I've ended up watching a fair few) seems to be stuffed with unlikeable and flat characters living in huge houses furnished with tacky shite.

How this is popular elsewhere in Asia is a mystery to me. I can only guess that their output is even worse such that Korean dramas could appear to be good.

We not got anything better to moan about other than kpop and the temperature?

Is it just me or are K-dramas utterly crap?

Every single one (and I've ended up watching a fair few) seems to be stuffed with unlikeable and flat characters living in huge houses furnished with tacky shite.

How this is popular elsewhere in Asia is a mystery to me. I can only guess that their output is even worse such that Korean dramas could appear to be good.

I honestly watched some with an open mind and came to exactly the same conclusion. I stuck to dramas that were recommended to me by friends, got generally good write-ups online and had plots with potential. The whiny voices and overacting were too much to bear. I don't know if I've made it past two episodes of anything. They all seemed to consist exclusively of annoying, unrelatable characters in unrealistic situations making wide-eyed, exaggerated facial expressions and saying "진짜?" and "왜...?" over and over again.

We not got anything better to moan about other than kpop and the temperature?

Is it just me or are K-dramas utterly crap?

Every single one (and I've ended up watching a fair few) seems to be stuffed with unlikeable and flat characters living in huge houses furnished with tacky shite.

How this is popular elsewhere in Asia is a mystery to me. I can only guess that their output is even worse such that Korean dramas could appear to be good.

I honestly watched some with an open mind and came to exactly the same conclusion. I stuck to dramas that were recommended to me by friends, got generally good write-ups online and had plots with potential. The whiny voices and overacting were too much to bear. I don't know if I've made it past two episodes of anything. They all seemed to consist exclusively of annoying, unrelatable characters in unrealistic situations making wide-eyed, exaggerated facial expressions and saying "진짜?" and "왜...?" over and over again.

The last decent K-drama I watched was 미생. Just checked and it was broadcast in 2014. Can't recall anything since then that's caught my eye. Maybe, 시그널 was ok. The "Reply" series was alright, too.

도깨비 was popular but I preferred the soundtrack to the long winding plot.

Nowadays, it's let's just stick some pretty K-pop idol in the title lead and play for ratings.

The Reply series was one that I genuinely wanted to see - and wanted to like - but I started watching Reply 1994 and the first episode just annoyed the hell out of me. It was a girl sitting around with a roller in her hair, eating noodles, slapping her older brother and screeching "왜 오빠!" while he made jokes about her appearance every two minutes. 

Maybe the other seasons are better though.

There's a crime drama called City Hunter based on a Japanese manga that actually sounded alright. Has anyone seen that?

Every single one (and I've ended up watching a fair few) seems to be stuffed with unlikeable and flat characters living in huge houses furnished with tacky shite.

yeah this is what i've been saying. ever notice how every scene is lit up brighter than the sun, too?

Like this gem: DeMartino: The audience for ballads is primarily women, who tend to listen to music differently (and view movies, TV, etc). As I mentioned for them they are much more interested in experiencing the emotions of the performer or actor than say in structure/technique/or even story.

Haha, those silly skirts!  They don't even know what the song is about, in fact the singer is just reading a menu and they still got wobbly in the knees. 

Never said anything of the sort. You're arguing with something in your own imagination.

Getting tired of dealing with certain KTs projecting their issues onto me. None of that shit is my fault, I never even talk to you. Stop acting like I'm the harbinger of all things wrong in your life.

Getting tired of dealing with certain KTs projecting their issues onto me. None of that shit is my fault, I never even talk to you. Stop acting like I'm the harbinger of all things wrong in your life.

Get that shite off your chest. What happened?

Like this gem: DeMartino: The audience for ballads is primarily women, who tend to listen to music differently (and view movies, TV, etc). As I mentioned for them they are much more interested in experiencing the emotions of the performer or actor than say in structure/technique/or even story.

Haha, those silly skirts!  They don't even know what the song is about, in fact the singer is just reading a menu and they still got wobbly in the knees. 

Never said anything of the sort. You're arguing with something in your own imagination.

Which part is from my imagination?  The part where I just copied and pasted what you wrote?  Or the part where I inferred your condescending attitude towards women in regards to what they get from music, movies and television?

South Korea mayor dumps ton of trash on beach for clean-up day
https://www.news24.com/Green/News/south-korea-mayor-dumps-ton-of-trash-on-beach-for-clean-up-day-20190926
____________

Looks like an onion article.

Which part is from my imagination?  The part where I just copied and pasted what you wrote?  Or the part where I inferred your condescending attitude towards women in regards to what they get from music, movies and television?

If you think what I wrote below is being condescending towards women, then that's on you. There are two primary components to art- the technical and the emotional. Both are just as important and I think I make that clear. You do realize I am in fact pointing out how people who find ballads inaccessible likely have some sort of emotional resistance/intelligence to deal with them. Feelings of "love" or "sadness" or whatever make them extremely uncomfortable, whereas other people can explore those feeling for 4 minutes and be fine. Their reaction to hearing someone express pain or whatever is to listen and empathize rather than change the channel.

If this is not how you listen to music, and instead rely almost exclusively on the structural aspects, then I can see how it is inaccessible, just as technically sophisticated but comparatively emotionally barren or vocal-less music would have little appeal to a ballad listener. It can be hard for people more comfortable in technical things to have the emotional sensitivity and acceptance and comfort to be able to listen to songs that express pain, sadness, longing, regret, hope, love, passion, anger, etc. where those emotions can shift and might be subtle, and are often uncomfortable to observe and certainly uncomfortable to experience for people who pride themselves on dispassion and self-control.

The clueless people aren't women. It's people who can't understand the appeal of ballads yet claim to be experts on music. If you can't even grasp why people listen to ballads then I don't care how tecnically gifted you are, you are deeply flawed as an artist.

I think you're projecting in this case. I'm the one perfectly fine with ballads and understands why people listen to them. Your reaction to my perfectly reasonable explanation was to hallucinate something that wasn't there in order to win an argument and then frame it in a sexist manner.