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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10540 on: October 04, 2019, 11:10:23 am »
I will point out that the kind of Korean adult Westerners teach in Korea are not the 'average' person in the US or the UK. In Seoul they are generally the elite of the elite. Often educated abroad at some stage and coming from the richer areas of Seoul, They probably went to various hagwans as kids, including art hagwans. 
I've taught plenty of adult students ranging from "the elite" to people who would be considered very very middle class.

Also the elite of the elite don't need Hagwons or teachers. They went to middle and high school and college abroad. If anything they might need a Korean tutor.

Yeah, one of the most tiring things about being a white hip hop singer like me is all the community of fat old black guys in their baggy clothes, stuck in that classic 80/90s rut. They've made the genre, in general, a bit unbearable for me; if I have to hear another old, black guy MCing or rhyming along to public enemy or Run DMC , I'm going to buy a guitar and focus on rock.
There's a big difference. For one thing, hip-hop fans seem to have aged pretty well and accepted the evolution of things. Of course there's still some nostalgia and people who are stuck in a certain period and hating on new trends, but by and large you don't see near the same level of stuck in the past. Also, hip-hop fans aren't nearly as obnoxious about declaring artists from their genre of music the greatest ever, and are used to encountering people who have little knowledge/interest in their genre.  Additionally, you don't see hip-hop fans getting all upset at Kpop or other kinds of music. The kpop hating seems to come overwhelmingly from one direction. You don't see heavy reggaeton or hip-hop or EDM fans on here griping about Kpop. The haters also happen to be overwhelmingly male, which is odd. Even on a site like this that skews male, it's still a bit way out of whack. I think Chinguetti kind of hinted at some underlying issues when she pointed this out and the hate being especially directed at boy bands.

Only rock fans seem to have this kind of attitude and I'm not quite sure what brings it out. Save for perhaps classical/jazz snobs and hipsters, most other fans at least get that people like all kinds of music and someone not liking your kind of music doesn't make them ignorant or worthy of ridicule. Even country music fans get this, after all they too understand what it's like to be part of a subculture and dismissed and ridiculed.

Like I said, this really does sometimes echo Disco Demolition Night
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disco_Demolition_Night#Cultural_significance

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The chance to yell "disco sucks" meant more than simply a musical style choice. It was a chance to push back on a whole set of social dynamics that lay just beneath the surface of a minor battle between a DJ and a radio station that decided to change formats. More importantly, it was a chance for a whole lot of people to say they didn't like the way the world was changing around them, or who they saw as the potential victors in a cultural and demographic war.

However if this is like DDN, then the Kpop haters should relax because Kpop will end up like disco, so no reason to get all worked up.


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10541 on: October 04, 2019, 11:18:31 am »
Quote
There's a big difference. For one thing, hip-hop fans seem to have aged pretty well and accepted the evolution of things. Of course there's still some nostalgia and people who are stuck in a certain period and hating on new trends, but by and large you don't see near the same level of stuck in the past. Also, hip-hop fans aren't nearly as obnoxious about declaring artists from their genre of music the greatest ever, and are used to encountering people who have little knowledge/interest in their genre.  Additionally, you don't see hip-hop fans getting all upset at Kpop or other kinds of music. The kpop hating seems to come overwhelmingly from one direction. You don't see heavy reggaeton or hip-hop or EDM fans on here griping about Kpop. The haters also happen to be overwhelmingly male, which is odd. Even on a site like this that skews male, it's still a bit way out of whack. I think Chinguetti kind of hinted at some underlying issues when she pointed this out and the hate being especially directed at boy bands.

Do you actually read what people write on here? Aristocrat was being racist about rock musicians and I called him out for it by doing a parody of being racist about Hip Hop musicians. Neither of us was talking about fans.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10542 on: October 04, 2019, 11:26:20 am »
With Korean ballads, it's probably one of the few genres, along with mumble-rap, which has NOTHING in it that I enjoy.
The audience for ballads is primarily women, who tend to listen to music differently (and view movies, TV, etc). As I mentioned for them they are much more interested in experiencing the emotions of the performer or actor than say in structure/technique/or even story. It's also why in the case of many of these ballads, performers will put their own touch on it and someone might listen to 5 versions of the same ballad song by 5 different singers. If this is not how you listen to music, and instead rely almost exclusively on the structural aspects, then I can see how it is inaccessible, just as technically sophisticated but comparatively emotionally barren or vocal-less music would have little appeal to a ballad listener. It can be hard for people more comfortable in technical things to have the emotional sensitivity and acceptance and comfort to be able to listen to songs that express pain, sadness, longing, regret, hope, love, passion, anger, etc. where those emotions can shift and might be subtle, and are often uncomfortable to observe and certainly uncomfortable to experience for people who pride themselves on dispassion and self-control.

Additionally, I think a big factor might be Korean language skill and context. If the lyrics of the song and it's situations like emotional or experiential resonance for you, you probably won't care about it as much. While that can be easy to overlook on a fun, simple trot song or a dance number, it's a lot harder with ballads.

Finally, and this should always be understood when talking about music in Korea, music here is a VERY social phenomenon. Going together to sing as a way to have fun and build relationships, while not unique to Korea, is certainly much more of a thing than in the West, save perhaps for church settings and African-American culture. In all of those settings, music is used as a point of commonality, rather than individuality and distinction. As such it needs to appeal to as broad a section of people as possible, and also be relatively easy to perform and sing.

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Trot has a goofy, folksy and soviet-esque charm to it. If anything, trot has character.
Agree with this. Trot doesn't take itself too seriously. It's incredibly simplistic in most cases, but that's sort of the point. A simple song for simpler times and simpler living. And like I mentioned above, it sort of has that communal aspect to it. It's music the whole village can listen to.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10543 on: October 04, 2019, 11:29:01 am »
Do you actually read what people write on here? Aristocrat was being racist about rock musicians and I called him out for it by doing a parody of being racist about Hip Hop musicians. Neither of us was talking about fans.
Yes you were parodying it. I think when Aristocrat mentioned those musicians, he was referring to amateur musicians, which would be more like fans and sort of represent the general rut and malaise that rock and its fans seem to be in, than professional artists.


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10544 on: October 04, 2019, 12:12:36 pm »
I never usually read a bloated, verbose DeMartino post through to the end, but I read one of the above and I've concluded that he somehow equates length with veracity.  If he writes at great length people won't catch on to him just making sh*t up off the top of his head. 

Like this gem: DeMartino: The audience for ballads is primarily women, who tend to listen to music differently (and view movies, TV, etc). As I mentioned for them they are much more interested in experiencing the emotions of the performer or actor than say in structure/technique/or even story.

Haha, those silly skirts!  They don't even know what the song is about, in fact the singer is just reading a menu and they still got wobbly in the knees. 

Have you ever gone out with Koreans to live music places, or the places where one of the staff will get on a keyboard or drumkit to accompany the customer who wants to take the stage?  I have been dragged to these places as well as karaoke with a number of older Koreans and the men, far more than the women, get up and get misty eyed as they belt out some old favourite ballad.  My GF and her family members love finishing the evening at these places.  This, unfortunately, was not a one off experience for me. 

And to pre-empt the "Dude, did you read what I wrote? I said women are primarily the FANS of ballads, not the ones who sing them." But, logic and reason will tell us that the salaryman who enjoys getting up and singing a song he clearly has memorized and means something to him, must also be a fan of said song. 


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10545 on: October 04, 2019, 08:55:44 pm »
Korea, I love you, but just because it's legally Autumn doesn't mean you get to turn the heat on.

How about actually thinking about what the temperature? It's 23 bloody degrees out, there's no need to have any heat on and you should actually have the AC on.


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10546 on: October 04, 2019, 10:04:51 pm »
Korea, I love you, but just because it's legally Autumn doesn't mean you get to turn the heat on.

How about actually thinking about what the temperature? It's 23 bloody degrees out, there's no need to have any heat on and you should actually have the AC on.
yeah...there are some things about korea i will never, ever understand


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10547 on: October 04, 2019, 11:23:43 pm »
It's September 1st, so all a/c must be off (fans ok) even though it's friggin 32 c outside! And little Jun-su is sweating in his jacket he won't take off because his mother told him to keep it on.

It happens every year.

Note: Jeju is very different. Kids there wear t-shirts in early November. There are actually PLENTY of differences between Koreans there and the mainland, especially among the youth. It's almost like another country. I spent 7 years on the mainland, then 7 years on Jeju, then the last 2.5 years back on the mainland, and my experiences here mirror my first seven years, with Jeju seeming like a foreign country.
Life's to live! Live! Breathe. Relax. Enjoy. Animals teach us to focus on family, friends and avoid danger. Get what you need and get along with others. That said, some rock the boat, but they know capsizin' it means they're sunk. Some sink, let's swim! The sea's big, great, but has undercurrents.


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10548 on: October 05, 2019, 01:42:48 am »
It's September 1st, so all a/c must be off (fans ok) even though it's friggin 32 c outside! And little Jun-su is sweating in his jacket he won't take off because his mother told him to keep it on.

It happens every year.

Note: Jeju is very different. Kids there wear t-shirts in early November. There are actually PLENTY of differences between Koreans there and the mainland, especially among the youth. It's almost like another country. I spent 7 years on the mainland, then 7 years on Jeju, then the last 2.5 years back on the mainland, and my experiences here mirror my first seven years, with Jeju seeming like a foreign country.

To be fair, it’s not just Korea that does this.

I remember plenty of places in Canada (including schools) that required a “switch-over” to enable or disable the heating system.

I’m not sure what was involved, but once it was done, heat was on (or off, as the case may be.)





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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10549 on: October 05, 2019, 12:27:21 pm »
And..... how about them closing the public pools along the Han River in the middle of summer. Why?  because according to them winter has started around July 21st.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10550 on: October 05, 2019, 02:11:48 pm »
We not got anything better to moan about other than kpop and the temperature?

Is it just me or are K-dramas utterly crap?

Every single one (and I've ended up watching a fair few) seems to be stuffed with unlikeable and flat characters living in huge houses furnished with tacky shite.

How this is popular elsewhere in Asia is a mystery to me. I can only guess that their output is even worse such that Korean dramas could appear to be good.
oo oo ahh ahh


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10551 on: October 06, 2019, 09:15:33 am »
We not got anything better to moan about other than kpop and the temperature?

Is it just me or are K-dramas utterly crap?

Every single one (and I've ended up watching a fair few) seems to be stuffed with unlikeable and flat characters living in huge houses furnished with tacky shite.

How this is popular elsewhere in Asia is a mystery to me. I can only guess that their output is even worse such that Korean dramas could appear to be good.

I honestly watched some with an open mind and came to exactly the same conclusion. I stuck to dramas that were recommended to me by friends, got generally good write-ups online and had plots with potential. The whiny voices and overacting were too much to bear. I don't know if I've made it past two episodes of anything. They all seemed to consist exclusively of annoying, unrelatable characters in unrealistic situations making wide-eyed, exaggerated facial expressions and saying "진짜?" and "왜...?" over and over again.

The last decent K-drama I watched was 미생. Just checked and it was broadcast in 2014. Can't recall anything since then that's caught my eye. Maybe, 시그널 was ok. The "Reply" series was alright, too.

도깨비 was popular but I preferred the soundtrack to the long winding plot.

Nowadays, it's let's just stick some pretty K-pop idol in the title lead and play for ratings.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 09:17:44 am by Savant »


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10552 on: October 06, 2019, 10:01:02 am »

Every single one (and I've ended up watching a fair few) seems to be stuffed with unlikeable and flat characters living in huge houses furnished with tacky shite.

yeah this is what i've been saying. ever notice how every scene is lit up brighter than the sun, too?


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10553 on: October 06, 2019, 04:39:22 pm »
Like this gem: DeMartino: The audience for ballads is primarily women, who tend to listen to music differently (and view movies, TV, etc). As I mentioned for them they are much more interested in experiencing the emotions of the performer or actor than say in structure/technique/or even story.

Haha, those silly skirts!  They don't even know what the song is about, in fact the singer is just reading a menu and they still got wobbly in the knees. 
Never said anything of the sort. You're arguing with something in your own imagination.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10554 on: October 07, 2019, 03:22:10 pm »
Getting tired of dealing with certain KTs projecting their issues onto me. None of that shit is my fault, I never even talk to you. Stop acting like I'm the harbinger of all things wrong in your life.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10555 on: October 07, 2019, 03:25:43 pm »
Getting tired of dealing with certain KTs projecting their issues onto me. None of that shit is my fault, I never even talk to you. Stop acting like I'm the harbinger of all things wrong in your life.

Get that shite off your chest. What happened?


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10556 on: October 08, 2019, 12:22:50 pm »
Like this gem: DeMartino: The audience for ballads is primarily women, who tend to listen to music differently (and view movies, TV, etc). As I mentioned for them they are much more interested in experiencing the emotions of the performer or actor than say in structure/technique/or even story.

Haha, those silly skirts!  They don't even know what the song is about, in fact the singer is just reading a menu and they still got wobbly in the knees. 
Never said anything of the sort. You're arguing with something in your own imagination.

Which part is from my imagination?  The part where I just copied and pasted what you wrote?  Or the part where I inferred your condescending attitude towards women in regards to what they get from music, movies and television?


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10557 on: October 12, 2019, 06:19:40 pm »
South Korea mayor dumps ton of trash on beach for clean-up day
https://www.news24.com/Green/News/south-korea-mayor-dumps-ton-of-trash-on-beach-for-clean-up-day-20190926
____________

Looks like an onion article.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10558 on: October 13, 2019, 07:45:31 pm »

Which part is from my imagination?  The part where I just copied and pasted what you wrote?  Or the part where I inferred your condescending attitude towards women in regards to what they get from music, movies and television?

If you think what I wrote below is being condescending towards women, then that's on you. There are two primary components to art- the technical and the emotional. Both are just as important and I think I make that clear. You do realize I am in fact pointing out how people who find ballads inaccessible likely have some sort of emotional resistance/intelligence to deal with them. Feelings of "love" or "sadness" or whatever make them extremely uncomfortable, whereas other people can explore those feeling for 4 minutes and be fine. Their reaction to hearing someone express pain or whatever is to listen and empathize rather than change the channel.

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If this is not how you listen to music, and instead rely almost exclusively on the structural aspects, then I can see how it is inaccessible, just as technically sophisticated but comparatively emotionally barren or vocal-less music would have little appeal to a ballad listener. It can be hard for people more comfortable in technical things to have the emotional sensitivity and acceptance and comfort to be able to listen to songs that express pain, sadness, longing, regret, hope, love, passion, anger, etc. where those emotions can shift and might be subtle, and are often uncomfortable to observe and certainly uncomfortable to experience for people who pride themselves on dispassion and self-control.

The clueless people aren't women. It's people who can't understand the appeal of ballads yet claim to be experts on music. If you can't even grasp why people listen to ballads then I don't care how tecnically gifted you are, you are deeply flawed as an artist.

I think you're projecting in this case. I'm the one perfectly fine with ballads and understands why people listen to them. Your reaction to my perfectly reasonable explanation was to hallucinate something that wasn't there in order to win an argument and then frame it in a sexist manner.


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10559 on: October 14, 2019, 07:45:25 am »
DMart: I think you're projecting in this case. I'm the one perfectly fine with ballads and understands why people listen to them. Your reaction to my perfectly reasonable explanation was to hallucinate something that wasn't there in order to win an argument and then frame it in a sexist manner.

OK, so a male definitively stating how women view songs, film and art in a different manner is not sexist?  Got it. 

Again, just your words:DeMartino: The audience for ballads is primarily women, who tend to listen to music differently (and view movies, TV, etc). As I mentioned for them they are much more interested in experiencing the emotions of the performer or actor than say in structure/technique/or even story.