RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0

Not judging them for it... Just expressing my surprise.

Exactly. There are many times where I think that people aren't STUPID, but I really can't believe that they simply aren't aware of some things.

My friend in Canada, smart guy, great guy, but he asked me what John Lennon was doing these days and he wasn't joking.

Like, you don't have to tell me about the making of Imagine. But to not know that he was shot? Like, Jesus.

I think everyone has that "thing" that they don't know about and is assumed to be basic.

I imagine if you put one of us in a kitchen or told to fix a car or do some sort of math problem or some kind of farming or gardening or a bit of history or something with pop music in 2019 or world geography or whatever, sooner or later we'd miss something basic.

I've learned never to judge someone's intelligence or worth of a character based on stuff like that. Some people are just into different stuff. Some people aren't that into music and are more into crafts or film or sports or books or cooking or whatever.

Also, I don't think some of us grasp how irrelevant the Beatles have become over the past decade or so. They held strong through the 90s but I've noticed there's been a real drop off. Also, with some cultures, the Beatles just weren't that big of a deal.

Anyways ever since Lennon got taken out of Red Square, his star has waned.

Guys, I'm not saying that everyone has to love Prince. I'm just saying it's weird that in globalized society with an internet-savvy population, a group of four educated Korean people had never heard of a global pop star who was, commercially speaking, the most successful chart act of the 1980s, who sold over 100 million records worldwide, played in massive Japanese arenas dozens of times, and was the subject of enormous international media attention when he died a few years ago. 

Not judging them for it... Just expressing my surprise.

Times have moved on and things were more distant back then. It's a bit like someone in 1976 being mystified that people in Japan didn't know who Glenn Miller and Bennie Goodman were.

commercially speaking, the most successful chart act of the 1980s,

I'd always give Koreans a pass on most things around the 80s considering until the Olympics in 1988, they didn't really have freedom of movement outside of the country.  That was when Korea started to open up.  The political and social climate around that time wasn't exactly global as there were military dictators.  I suppose even after Roh Tae Woo (1993) western cultural and music influence was increasing but it was still limited.   

That's one factor, but I'd put my money on a fair bit of it being the language barrier, homogeneous and extremely insular culture.

I was having a discussion about video games with my 5th grade class. None of them (25 students) could name a single gaming console other than the Switch. Yes, I asked them if they'd heard of Playstation or XBox, nope. I tried PC games and nobody had heard of Starcraft, 1 or 2 (FYI, Starcraft was probably more popular than Overwatch, Battlegrounds and LOL combined, during the late 90s and early 2000s) . I've come across students who've never heard of Harry Potter, The Matrix or Lord of the Rings.

I understand they're kids and might not focus on the past, but Playstation and XBox? Come on! Contemporary Korean culture focuses on the now and many people tend to live in a tiny little bubble, which they rarely venture out of.

1. all i'm saying is that compared to people who like other genres, kpop fans are next level. i'm 99% sure everyone agrees about this. at this point i don't even think it's debatable

Similar but different. I say this because of your comment below-

2. i have literally never heard of Bobby Brown, New Edition, The Supremes, Delfonics. i only know kylie from your list

You've never heard of The Supremes?  Diana frickin Ross?

Okay, this is a delicate matter because it deals with generalities, but I think it's something you are unaware of: What's considered the "greatest" and "most significant" music is NOT the same for black people as white people. A lot of black people might like a couple of Beatles songs, but they aren't anywhere in the conversations for greatest musicians ever. And Nirvana? Please.

And one thing a lot of black people have to deal with when it comes to music is they get questioned and often dismissed when they mention that they don't really know much about the Beatles or don't care about them or have never heard of Smashing Pumpkins or Sublime or whatever. And this isn't just black folks, but can even apply to other POC communities and even to country music fans or classical music fans.

And yes, to a lot of people this gets aggravating. If you've ever worked in a mixed-race workplace setting with a stereo, the battles that ensue and the racial divide that happens highlight this divide. The whole rock-centric view has got the same kind of entitlement and ignorance as some of the worst Kpopstans. You're just blind to it because you assume your taste is normal and that they're weird, just as they assume they're the normal ones and your music is "weird".

I'm not saying you need to change your tastes or anything, but if you don't even know who The Supremes are, maybe you should hold off on calling Kpop fans uninformed. And try and be aware that music is diverse.

I understand they're kids and might not focus on the past, but Playstation and XBox? Come on! Contemporary Korean culture focuses on the now and many people tend to live in a tiny little bubble, which they rarely venture out of.

I think many of us forget what it's like to be a kid and how insular our worlds can be. When AppleIIGS and NES were all the rage, none of us had heard of ColecoVision or Telstar.

Also, parents might buy their kids a portable to shut them up in the car, but a whole system in front of the TV?

You do realize there are millions of Americans, many of them adults, who don't give a flying F about video game consoles and wouldn't have the vaguest idea what you were talking about as well?

This idea that someone is stupid and insular because they aren't knowledgeable about the things one deems as important is an attitude that quite frankly, seems stupid and insular.

I think people who have this attitude need to be dropped into the middle of a situation where things outside their comfort zone are deemed "common knowledge" and have to put up with the same kind of condescension.

Stop focusing so much on what your kids don't know, focus more on what they do know and encourage that some more. Who cares if they don't know much about the XBox but know a lot about the Switch? What damn difference does that make? Go out and have fun with your games. "You're hardcore into Switch? That's awesome, have fun! Why don't you tell me about your favorite game? (But don't forget your homework, and go play some soccer and get outside)"

1. all i'm saying is that compared to people who like other genres, kpop fans are next level. i'm 99% sure everyone agrees about this. at this point i don't even think it's debatable

Similar but different. I say this because of your comment below-

2. i have literally never heard of Bobby Brown, New Edition, The Supremes, Delfonics. i only know kylie from your list

You've never heard of The Supremes?  Diana frickin Ross?

Okay, this is a delicate matter because it deals with generalities, but I think it's something you are unaware of: What's considered the "greatest" and "most significant" music is NOT the same for black people as white people. A lot of black people might like a couple of Beatles songs, but they aren't anywhere in the conversations for greatest musicians ever. And Nirvana? Please.

And one thing a lot of black people have to deal with when it comes to music is they get questioned and often dismissed when they mention that they don't really know much about the Beatles or don't care about them or have never heard of Smashing Pumpkins or Sublime or whatever. And this isn't just black folks, but can even apply to other POC communities and even to country music fans or classical music fans.

And yes, to a lot of people this gets aggravating. If you've ever worked in a mixed-race workplace setting with a stereo, the battles that ensue and the racial divide that happens highlight this divide. The whole rock-centric view has got the same kind of entitlement and ignorance as some of the worst Kpopstans. You're just blind to it because you assume your taste is normal and that they're weird, just as they assume they're the normal ones and your music is "weird".

I'm not saying you need to change your tastes or anything, but if you don't even know who The Supremes are, maybe you should hold off on calling Kpop fans uninformed. And try and be aware that music is diverse.

have heard of diana ross, never listened. i'm not calling kpop fans uninformed, i'm calling them crazy
(not sure how this argument seems to have changed. this whole thing seems to have stemmed from someone calling nirvana a boyband, and refusing to admit bts are a boyband)

Martin has a preset form reply for all these kind of topics. Waiting for him to bring up someone playing Wonderwall on an acoustic guitar and how black people hate when that happens.

I tried PC games and nobody had heard of Starcraft, 1 or 2 (FYI, Starcraft was probably more popular than Overwatch, Battlegrounds and LOL combined, during the late 90s and early 2000s) .

this is upsetting me deeply. it may be because they know it as 스타. even some third graders i had last year at my elementary school knew it

have heard of diana ross, never listened. i'm not calling kpop fans uninformed, i'm calling them crazy
(not sure how this argument seems to have changed. this whole thing seems to have stemmed from someone calling nirvana a boyband, and refusing to admit bts are a boyband)

Bashes Koreans for being insular and ignorant of music...hasn't listened to Diana Ross & The Supremes 

I tried PC games and nobody had heard of Starcraft, 1 or 2 (FYI, Starcraft was probably more popular than Overwatch, Battlegrounds and LOL combined, during the late 90s and early 2000s) .

this is upsetting me deeply. it may be because they know it as 스타. even some third graders i had last year at my elementary school knew it

My CT knew it, even though she has no interest in gaming, and did repeat 'sutar' (no Hangul in this OS) to the students. Nope.

I tried PC games and nobody had heard of Starcraft, 1 or 2 (FYI, Starcraft was probably more popular than Overwatch, Battlegrounds and LOL combined, during the late 90s and early 2000s) .

this is upsetting me deeply. it may be because they know it as 스타. even some third graders i had last year at my elementary school knew it

My CT knew it, even though she has no interest in gaming, and did repeat 'sutar' (no Hangul in this OS) to the students. Nope.

this is truly upsetting

have heard of diana ross, never listened. i'm not calling kpop fans uninformed, i'm calling them crazy
(not sure how this argument seems to have changed. this whole thing seems to have stemmed from someone calling nirvana a boyband, and refusing to admit bts are a boyband)

Bashes Koreans for being insular and ignorant of music...hasn't listened to Diana Ross & The Supremes 

You're having a go at Oglop for bashing Koreans for being insular and ignorant about music, by bashing him for being insular and ignorant because he's never listened to Diana Ross and the Supremes?     M'kay!

I'm bashing kpop fans for often being a bit mental, not being insular and ignorant. I, quite literally, have no idea where this argument came from

I'm bashing kpop fans for often being a bit mental, not being insular and ignorant. I, quite literally, have no idea where this argument came from

He's got a list of pet hates he has about foreigners with regards to their attitude to k pop and he just runs down it everytime the topic comes up. It doesn't really matter what the people he's attacking actually said. 

Teenagers going apeshit over KPop is no different than teenagers going apeshit over the Backstreet Boys. You can like it, you can hate it, whatever. It does NOT affect you unless you have an obsessed teenaged child.

If you think Koreans not having heard of X musician is crazy, think about the first time you told a Korean that you had no idea what "Lemon Tree" was. *head exploding meme*

All of you tuck your dicks away, you are getting piss everywhere and there's no cause for it.

Teenagers going apeshit over KPop is no different than teenagers going apeshit over the Backstreet Boys. You can like it, you can hate it, whatever. It does NOT affect you unless you have an obsessed teenaged child.

So what's your point, are you saying that people should only comment on things that have a direct effect on their lives?  Are you one of these people that go around saying 'why don't you just switch it off?' when people start criticising something they saw on TV. Or when someone says something like  'he's dressed a bit ridiculously', do you say things like 'leave him alone he's not harming anyone?'

Slagging things off that don't affect us is part of normal human interaction, designed to make conversation and bond with people we have similar taste to. 

Since you brought it up, why was that Lemon Tree song - a German minor hit from 1995 - so popular here?

And on a similar note, can anyone explain to me the current Korean obsession with Vincent van Gough? I know that film Loving Vincent came out recently but even before that, I'd started to notice van Gough motifs everywhere, and all of a sudden. I also had students proposing van Gough-related projects, which had never happened before. And to cap it all, there's now a van Gough-themed bistro near my apartment. Why did this all take off within the last 12 months?

Van Gogh's been popular in Korea for years since the middle school English book had a unit on him. Ask any Korean adult what their favourite painting is and i guarantee they'll either say 'Starry night' or the Scream (in the same unit)

Since you brought it up, why was that Lemon Tree song - a German minor hit from 1995 - so popular here?

And on a similar note, can anyone explain to me the current Korean obsession with Vincent van Gough? I know that film Loving Vincent came out recently but even before that, I'd started to notice van Gough motifs everywhere, and all of a sudden. I also had students proposing van Gough-related projects, which had never happened before. And to cap it all, there's now a van Gough-themed bistro near my apartment. Why did this all take off within the last 12 months?

I reckon Lemon Tree is popular because it's easy to understand the words and it's really repetitive. Kind of like the otherwise-inexplicable popularity of The Carpenters in Japan.

Regarding your Van Gogh theory, I think you're definitely on the right track. Remember when every ajumma was named "Sunny" and professed to love Boney M because of some stupid movie about old ladies learning to disco? Yeah.

I'm bashing kpop fans for often being a bit mental, not being insular and ignorant. I, quite literally, have no idea where this argument came from

He's got a list of pet hates he has about foreigners with regards to their attitude to k pop and he just runs down it everytime the topic comes up. It doesn't really matter what the people he's attacking actually said.

As opposed to the brand new takes on Kpop that the haters come out with?

It's not foreigners, it's music snobs period.

Van Gogh's been popular in Korea for years since the middle school English book had a unit on him. Ask any Korean adult what their favourite painting is and i guarantee they'll either say 'Starry night' or the Scream (in the same unit)

What as opposed to the average American off the street, who would be like "You know, I really like Caravaggio and the Caravaggisti with their brilliant application of chiaroscuro that would go on to influence artists ranging from Rembrandt to David."? The average person is going to say probably Starry Night or The Scream or if they're a hipster, Wanderer Above a Sea of Clouds. The average person can probably name like, 5 famous paintings tops if given 10 seconds to respond, especially when asked randomly over coffee in a foreign language.

Is that what your conversations with Koreans are like? You constantly sitting in judgment waiting for them to demonstrate what peasants they are so you can share some anecdote on waygook.org about it?

Teenagers going apeshit over KPop is no different than teenagers going apeshit over the Backstreet Boys. You can like it, you can hate it, whatever. It does NOT affect you unless you have an obsessed teenaged child.

or if you browse the internet. or live in korea. or teach korean kids

actually it's the teenagers that are the least annoying. grown adults koreaboos are probably the worst