Quote from: Aristocrat on September 30, 2019, 02:31:29 pmI did it because I like music and wanted to appreciate it on a deeper level.Music is an art and with art 50% is emotional and subjective and expressive. It can't be quantified or analyzed and can only be vaguely theorized.
I did it because I like music and wanted to appreciate it on a deeper level.
You'd have to be deaf to hear that.Why aren't 16-year-old Korean K-pop fans posting on threads on Waygook? A website predominantly for foreign native teachers working in Korea? Is that what you asking as a way to show their maturity about music? Seriously? You're asking this? In bold?
I'm not slagging anyone off. I'm simply pointing out how if someone is going to make a bunch of disparaging remarks about Kpopstans, that one could do the same thing about the people slagging them off and that maybe, just maybe, it might cause someone to realize "Hey, bashing people for their taste in music is a crappy thing to do. Maybe I shouldn't do that. Maybe there are some gaps in my taste. Maybe I'm doing the same thing that I think they're doing."
Pretty much every professional musician will disagree with you. You get a call from a client, "Hi, we need a track for our laxative commercial by 5pm" You look at the storyboard and it's a guy in discomfort, followed by him being given the product and finally relief. You've got 3hrs to compose, record and mix the track. From your training, you know exactly how to convey these emotions through sound. Discomfort has a sound and it's very tense and dissonant, ok, so maybe starting with some dominant or augmented chords to give that jaring and uncomfortable feel, the tension builds up to say the min/Maj 7th chord, which you use as a bridge and to convey the idea of discovering a clue, finally it resolves to a basic triad tonic, or a sus2 if you want to add a bit of extra openness. The resolution creates a feeling of relief and release. If you wanted extra campiness, you could arpeggiate the final chord with a harp to give it that stereotypical light and airy feel. Done, you record, mix and send off your work. You get a call back, client loves it, but the melody is to similar to a popular song and the client is afraid of a copyright issues. No problem, you quickly reharmonize the entire track, modulate it a bit and boom, similar thing but somehow different. "How did you do that?" client asks, "magic" you reply, remembering the time your parents thought you were a computer whizz when you turned the router on and off to get the internet back online.
He knew exactly which emotion and feel he wanted his listener to experience and when. It's no lucky accident that each movement sounds like it's respective season.
While a story is a very useful starting point, the true creative process of composition is actually rather dull, frustrating, logical and mechanical.
QuoteI'm not slagging anyone off. I'm simply pointing out how if someone is going to make a bunch of disparaging remarks about Kpopstans, that one could do the same thing about the people slagging them off and that maybe, just maybe, it might cause someone to realize "Hey, bashing people for their taste in music is a crappy thing to do. Maybe I shouldn't do that. Maybe there are some gaps in my taste. Maybe I'm doing the same thing that I think they're doing."Yes you are slagging people off. You said people who still bang on about Nirvana should get over it and age gracefully. What's the difference between saying that and saying something like people who still like k pop into their twenties need to grow up a bit, for example. I don't think anyone's saying k pop fans are bad people or anything like that.
2) Related to the first, if you're going to go down the "their fans are awful and have issues" route, do the rock fans bashing on Kpop really want to go down that route?3) We're almost at the 30th anniversary of 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'. Get over it. Time passes you by. Learn to age gracefully.4) Also, music in the 90s does not stop and start with Nirvana. Just as music in the 60s does not stop and start with the Beatles. Sorry, but Kurt Cobain's death was not the biggest music death of the 90s. That was 2Pac. A figure far bigger and more significant than Cobain and whose genre of music still persists to this day. And Motown was bigger AND better than the Beatles+The Beach Boys+The Rolling Stones. Yeah, I said it.
Why does it bother you so much?
Quote from: stoat on October 01, 2019, 01:20:52 pmQuoteI'm not slagging anyone off. I'm simply pointing out how if someone is going to make a bunch of disparaging remarks about Kpopstans, that one could do the same thing about the people slagging them off and that maybe, just maybe, it might cause someone to realize "Hey, bashing people for their taste in music is a crappy thing to do. Maybe I shouldn't do that. Maybe there are some gaps in my taste. Maybe I'm doing the same thing that I think they're doing."Yes you are slagging people off. You said people who still bang on about Nirvana should get over it and age gracefully. What's the difference between saying that and saying something like people who still like k pop into their twenties need to grow up a bit, for example. I don't think anyone's saying k pop fans are bad people or anything like that.Quote2) Related to the first, if you're going to go down the "their fans are awful and have issues" route, do the rock fans bashing on Kpop really want to go down that route?3) We're almost at the 30th anniversary of 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'. Get over it. Time passes you by. Learn to age gracefully.4) Also, music in the 90s does not stop and start with Nirvana. Just as music in the 60s does not stop and start with the Beatles. Sorry, but Kurt Cobain's death was not the biggest music death of the 90s. That was 2Pac. A figure far bigger and more significant than Cobain and whose genre of music still persists to this day. And Motown was bigger AND better than the Beatles+The Beach Boys+The Rolling Stones. Yeah, I said it.If no one's saying Kpop fans are bad people, then what is people's beef? Who cares what they listen to? Why does it bother you so much?Also, not on this thread, but on others people have said that they actually do judge people based on what music they listen to and their character. I know because I've specifically brought up this point and people have said that yes they would judge someone.
Edit: You know, at this stage I would much prefer someone come in here and actually defend Kpop properly. It would be more interesting than this repeat argument you present every 3 months.
QuoteWhy does it bother you so much?I'm only seeing one person bothered so much in this thread.
Quote from: zola on October 01, 2019, 01:40:16 pmEdit: You know, at this stage I would much prefer someone come in here and actually defend Kpop properly. It would be more interesting than this repeat argument you present every 3 months. I already gave a proper defense: If you like it, listen to it.Nothing more needs to be said when it comes to music.
Quote from: stoat on October 01, 2019, 01:34:32 pmQuoteWhy does it bother you so much?I'm only seeing one person bothered so much in this thread. "These people's taste in music sucks.""No it doesn't, why are you so bothered about it?""I'm not bothered. You're the one that's bothered."
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 01, 2019, 01:58:29 pmQuote from: zola on October 01, 2019, 01:40:16 pmEdit: You know, at this stage I would much prefer someone come in here and actually defend Kpop properly. It would be more interesting than this repeat argument you present every 3 months. I already gave a proper defense: If you like it, listen to it.Nothing more needs to be said when it comes to music. Millenniums of art criticism disagrees.
Quote from: zola on October 01, 2019, 02:21:22 pmQuote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 01, 2019, 01:58:29 pmQuote from: zola on October 01, 2019, 01:40:16 pmEdit: You know, at this stage I would much prefer someone come in here and actually defend Kpop properly. It would be more interesting than this repeat argument you present every 3 months. I already gave a proper defense: If you like it, listen to it.Nothing more needs to be said when it comes to music. Millenniums of art criticism disagrees.Millennia of art criticism disagree?I recall from my Philosophy of Music class that music as an art form emerged in the 1600's. The Ancient philosophers treated music as akin to science, education and morality.
Quote from: oglop on September 30, 2019, 04:04:52 pm2. what's wrong with rock music fans? seriously. did i miss something?What's wrong with Kpop fans? I think in both cases nothing is wrong. But if you're going to belittle one group, then turnabout is fair play and there is a lot that can be said about people getting into their mid-late 30 or are in their 50s and 60s and are stuck in 1993 or 1970 listening to the same old stuff and getting upset that kids are listening to something different and getting butthurt that people don't like their band or don't care about their music. If there's ever a group of music fans that is the mirror image of Kpopstans, its rock fans. Not everyone has put rock at the center of their musical existence for the past 60 years, but some rock fans act like it should be.Quote yeah sure. but the fact people still listen to it 30 years later must mean something. i'd be surprised if any current kpop song is listened to 30 years from nowWhy? People still listen to Bobby Brown, New Edition, Kylie Minogue, etc. etc. 30 years later. People still listen to The Supremes and the Delfonics. People still listen to Disco. As for actual old Kpop, people still listen to stuff from back in the day. If something still gets airplay 10 years later, it's probably going to get airplay 30 years later.Just because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean it will be forgotten.Quotedo western pop artists ever lip sync while dancing? not sure they would get away with it (i swear i've just "scandals" in the past of artists being accused of it. so i guess it's not acceptable generally?)Depends on how much they're dancing. If you're doing any kind of dance that would require heavy activity and respiration while performing it, you're going to lipsync.Quotebut the fans are often insane. that's my only point. i wouldn't be upset if someone said my favourite band sucked. but getting defensive over (wrongly) perceived slights? ughhhLike I said, I think rock fans are some of the most insecure music fans out there. As I've said- How many threads do Kpop fans go on and tell other people their music sucks? Zero. How many threads do rock fans go on and tell kpop fans their music sucks? A ton." That's like, the definition of insecure. It's the rock fans who blow a gasket when you don't agree that "Insert Rock Band X" was the greatest of all time or the greatest of the decade. Heck, 30 years ago rock fans blew up a bunch of disco records and started a riot because of that insecurity. It's kind of similar to what you're seeing here with their Kpop hatred. "OMG, these people of different backgrounds are coming in and making this music that's taking the spotlight off of us and casting it somewhere else, and even worse, instead of being moody and anger filled, they are happy and bubbly. We need to trash it!"Or how about the shock that you don't know/care about some "legendary" rock band?"You don't know who Green Day is?!?!?!?!?!""No, do you know who Patti LaBelle is?" In some ways rock fans come across as culturally isolated as Kpopstans.
2. what's wrong with rock music fans? seriously. did i miss something?
yeah sure. but the fact people still listen to it 30 years later must mean something. i'd be surprised if any current kpop song is listened to 30 years from now
do western pop artists ever lip sync while dancing? not sure they would get away with it (i swear i've just "scandals" in the past of artists being accused of it. so i guess it's not acceptable generally?)
but the fans are often insane. that's my only point. i wouldn't be upset if someone said my favourite band sucked. but getting defensive over (wrongly) perceived slights? ughhh
Quote from: Aristocrat on October 01, 2019, 12:35:21 pmPretty much every professional musician will disagree with you. You get a call from a client, "Hi, we need a track for our laxative commercial by 5pm" You look at the storyboard and it's a guy in discomfort, followed by him being given the product and finally relief. You've got 3hrs to compose, record and mix the track. From your training, you know exactly how to convey these emotions through sound. Discomfort has a sound and it's very tense and dissonant, ok, so maybe starting with some dominant or augmented chords to give that jaring and uncomfortable feel, the tension builds up to say the min/Maj 7th chord, which you use as a bridge and to convey the idea of discovering a clue, finally it resolves to a basic triad tonic, or a sus2 if you want to add a bit of extra openness. The resolution creates a feeling of relief and release. If you wanted extra campiness, you could arpeggiate the final chord with a harp to give it that stereotypical light and airy feel. Done, you record, mix and send off your work. You get a call back, client loves it, but the melody is to similar to a popular song and the client is afraid of a copyright issues. No problem, you quickly reharmonize the entire track, modulate it a bit and boom, similar thing but somehow different. "How did you do that?" client asks, "magic" you reply, remembering the time your parents thought you were a computer whizz when you turned the router on and off to get the internet back online. That emotion, feeling, and subjectivism is what separates a forgotten advertising jingle from a successful one. And what separates an advertising jingle from a Top-10 hit. It's not simply structure. There's something beyond it.
While there is certainly an element of this, given the massive amounts of drugs many were on, or the lack of formal music education many musicians have had, you can't discount raw inspiration, experimentation and just jamming. There's certainly a technical foundation, but the creative process for artists and musicians, while it CAN take on a more technical form, does not always do so.
Much of the music of the world has been created by people, often repressed or illiterate, in rough conditions. They didn't have formal theoretical training. They just had their voice and their hands. Or maybe a harmonica or a fiddle or a banjo. And they made music.
Quote5. i would only say "you don't know <band>?" because it's some famous band that everyone in that country must know. if you've never heard of the beatles, that's a bit weird (not having not listened to them, just not having heard of them)At the risk of inflaming things further, I feel like this is a good place to point out that I once had dinner with a group of Korean in their early 30s who had no idea who Prince was. They'd never heard of him, didn't recognize any of his songs, and showed the same lack of recognition when I showed them his picture. I have to say, I found that pretty shocking. I know we should take cultural factors into account, but to me that feels like reaching adulthood and saying you've never heard of a book called Harry Potter or a movie called Star Wars.
5. i would only say "you don't know <band>?" because it's some famous band that everyone in that country must know. if you've never heard of the beatles, that's a bit weird (not having not listened to them, just not having heard of them)
Korean people had never heard of a global pop star who was, commercially speaking, the most successful chart act of the 19i80s
Not judging them for it... Just expressing my surprise.
commercially speaking, the most successful chart act of the 1980s,