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  • kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 5344

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10460 on: September 30, 2019, 10:20:34 am »
New song by BTS member 제이홉. Where does it go on the innovation scale?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i23NEQEFpgQ

Pure crap on the innovation scale.  The only thing that was innovative was a monster truck falling out of the sky.  Never seen that before.   :undecided:
A-hem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK2eV6KEgko



  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4784

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10461 on: September 30, 2019, 10:28:06 am »
New song by BTS member 제이홉. Where does it go on the innovation scale?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i23NEQEFpgQ

Oh, man, I had to ear bleach that out with some Lightning Bolt and some Animal Collective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPNcDUW9fQM
The joys of fauxtherhood


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1912

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10462 on: September 30, 2019, 11:17:57 am »
i saw some article the other day and the headline called BTS a boyband. everyone in the comments were going crazy about how BTS is more than just a boyband. they should be called "innovators" or some shit like that, instead of boyband. then there were comments like "well if BTS are a boyband, Nirvana should also be called a boyband". ughhh such drivel. their fans seem weirdly defensive and neurotic

BTS are a 'boyband' like 'New Kids on the Block' and crap manufactured stuff like that.  They don't play their own instruments.  They are dancers, that's it.  They're here today, and they'll be gone tomorrow, like 'One Direction'. 

Nirvana are, and always will be, innovators.   :-*

That's my opinion on K-pop in general. It's all girl/boy dancer groups. They lip sync and don't play instruments.
What exactly do they do that is music related? haha

There are usually a couple that chime in and say: "it's not all that;" but K-pop is typically a genre of music, like English pop music, which is linked to, or mostly to, all the boy/girl bands

As someone who plays 3 instruments and has an ABRSM grade 7 music theory certificate, I was going to write a long-winded reply on how BTS is  nothing more than a product using sampled music as a medium or presentation, but then... I got bored and simply lost interest.

I'm having too much fun enjoying everything from Liszt to Japanese Future Funk to really care about bashing BTS. Sometimes, it's not really about the music, it's about what you associate with the music and what it invokes.

My dad's a Beatle maniac and while I can enjoy a song here and there and can certainly see moments of genius at their use of modal mixture, it really doesn't affect me in the same way it does him. Adam Neeley discussed this in his (now private) video, "Why Pop Music Sounds Bad to You" and segways into the idea that your music tastes are stuck at 14. If you don't know who Adam Neeley is, he's a professional musician and probably the most knowledgeable musical theorists you could find.
The music you listen to during your youth essentially becomes those memories. My dad was a teen during the Beatles revolution of youth culture and he was there to follow along the journey of their music throughout the years. I was never there and can never feel the memories he feels when listening to their music.

With BTS, no matter how bad their music is, pubescent Korean girls don't love BTS, they love how BTS makes them feel and at this stage of their physical and mental development, the manufactured illusion that BTS has created is extremely powerful and popular and no amount of theoretical grandstanding is going to diminish that, which brings me back to my original point; criticizing BTS is futile and not worth my time.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 2500

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10463 on: September 30, 2019, 11:42:02 am »
i saw some article the other day and the headline called BTS a boyband. everyone in the comments were going crazy about how BTS is more than just a boyband. they should be called "innovators" or some shit like that, instead of boyband. then there were comments like "well if BTS are a boyband, Nirvana should also be called a boyband". ughhh such drivel. their fans seem weirdly defensive and neurotic

BTS are a 'boyband' like 'New Kids on the Block' and crap manufactured stuff like that.  They don't play their own instruments.  They are dancers, that's it.  They're here today, and they'll be gone tomorrow, like 'One Direction'. 

Nirvana are, and always will be, innovators.   :-*
i think, deepdown, that most kpop fans know this, which is why they get so defensive all of the time


  • OnNut81
  • Expert Waygook

    • 879

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10464 on: September 30, 2019, 11:47:15 am »
Aristocrat: As someone who plays 3 instruments and has an ABRSM grade 7 music theory certificate, I was going to write a long-winded reply on how BTS is  nothing more than a product using sampled music as a medium or presentation, but then... I got bored and simply lost interest.

I wish you'd stuck with your guns there, man.  That wasn't a long-winded reply? 

I know how to make music I like boring now, though.  Break it down by musical theory.  It's like just enjoying a meal you like and then a nutritionist breaking it down into calories and salt content and cholesterol and so on.  Kind of sucks the interest right out of a topic.  Or thread for that matter. 

BTS forever!


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10465 on: September 30, 2019, 11:52:12 am »
the way i see it, BTS is a group of performers/celebrities. they put on a good show. are they musical geniuses? no. who knows how much of the creative process they're actually involved in. like one of you said, "they are dancers" and people really, really like that


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1912

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10466 on: September 30, 2019, 12:09:28 pm »
Aristocrat: As someone who plays 3 instruments and has an ABRSM grade 7 music theory certificate, I was going to write a long-winded reply on how BTS is  nothing more than a product using sampled music as a medium or presentation, but then... I got bored and simply lost interest.

I wish you'd stuck with your guns there, man.  That wasn't a long-winded reply? 

I know how to make music I like boring now, though.  Break it down by musical theory.  It's like just enjoying a meal you like and then a nutritionist breaking it down into calories and salt content and cholesterol and so on.  Kind of sucks the interest right out of a topic.  Or thread for that matter. 

BTS forever!

It was a bit confusing to say that in the beginning and not end the post, I agee.

I say no, no and no! Learning to understanding Art does not diminish the enjoyment, if anything, it elevates it. Never have I heard of or come across a musician who regretted improving their understanding of their chosen craft.

To an engineer, studying the mechanical process of a steam engine might by fascinating and to a layman, it might be boring.
Since you're a layman on music, you're not going to understand or appreciate harmonic or melodic analysis and that's fine, you can still enjoy music.
 


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10467 on: September 30, 2019, 12:22:18 pm »
People don't like other people calling their stuff hot garbage, even if it is hot garbage.

I don't personally have a problem with people liking hot garbage, I have my guilty pleasures, too (ngl, I still have some Backstreet Boys songs on my ipod), but I wish they'd admit that it is what it is and own it instead of telling everyone that the sky IS PURPLE NOT BLUE GAWL

BTS has its commercial gimmick, and even if they're not innovators in the music industry, they do still pump out the kind of melodies and sounds that teenage girls (and some adults) tend to love. You can understand the appeal for people who just want songs that are easy to sing along with and dance to, especially if you have a bunch of pretty faces all lined up to really rev up those hormones.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10468 on: September 30, 2019, 12:40:31 pm »
As someone who plays 3 instruments and has an ABRSM grade 7 music theory certificate...

So the whole point of your post then (because it's not even worth your time and it bores you) is to tell everyone that you play three instruments and have a music theory certificate  :wink:

Since you're a layman on music, you're not going to understand or appreciate harmonic or melodic analysis and that's fine, you can still enjoy music. 

Well thank god for that!  Please teach us poor, uneducated laymen riff raff more about music so we can enjoy it properly!


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10469 on: September 30, 2019, 12:46:56 pm »
Some points-
1) Rock is not the center of the modern music universe. What I've noticed is the people most annoyed with Kpop are invariably strong rock/country listeners. People who are into EDM/Top 40/Rap/or most of all- A broad variety of music (virtually any music genre) are far less likely to be bothered by it.
2) Related to the first, if you're going to go down the "their fans are awful and have issues" route, do the rock fans bashing on Kpop really want to go down that route?
3) We're almost at the 30th anniversary of 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'. Get over it. Time passes you by. Learn to age gracefully.
4) Also, music in the 90s does not stop and start with Nirvana. Just as music in the 60s does not stop and start with the Beatles. Sorry, but Kurt Cobain's death was not the biggest music death of the 90s. That was 2Pac. A figure far bigger and more significant than Cobain and whose genre of music still persists to this day. And Motown was bigger AND better than the Beatles+The Beach Boys+The Rolling Stones. Yeah, I said it.
5) People listen to music for different reasons. Also, not everyone likes the cacophony of guitars and angry frustrated yelling. Some people like vocals and I dunno, songs that aren't full of anger and frustration. Maybe something mildly happy.
6) Kpop is lip-synced during the live performance for dance songs. That's because they're also dancing. During ballads, they sing live. Also, no one seems upset when performers in other genres sing but don't play instruments. Or even when their favorite rock band has a lead vocalist who doesn't play an instrument.
7) As far as defensiveness and insecurity, this is like the umpteenth rant about how Kpop sucks. How many threads/posts have Kpop fans started about how other music sucks? Who is being defensive and insecure here?

"I think your music is crap"
"I disagree+reasons"
"You're being insecure and defensive because you don't agree with me that the music you like is crap."
 :rolleyes:


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10470 on: September 30, 2019, 12:48:49 pm »
Well thank god for that!  Please teach us poor, uneducated laymen riff raff more about music so we can enjoy it properly!
The only rule of music- If you like it, listen to it.

Why anyone takes it beyond that and starts judging people and getting all upset that people like different stuff is beyond me.


  • lhelena
  • Veteran

    • 121

    • March 11, 2018, 01:57:14 pm
    • Anseong
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10471 on: September 30, 2019, 12:58:47 pm »
I will never understand why people feel the need to dump on what other people like. Especially what teenage girls like. If a certain genre of music makes someone happy let them have it. Leave it alone. You probably have better things to do than to make a kid feel like shit for liking the kind of music they do just because it doesn't meet your standards.

And FYI most of the Beatles' early fans were teenage girls and the only people I hear talk about how deep Nirvana was anymore are teenage girls, so it seems you have more in common than you think.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10472 on: September 30, 2019, 01:11:57 pm »
I also notice that a lot of the music trash talking almost exclusively begins whenever a boy band is the subject. Doesn't seem to come up as often when girl groups are mentioned.  :wink:

Anyway: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/09/the-science-of-snobbery-how-were-duped-into-thinking-fancy-things-are-better/279571/


  • stoat
  • Super Waygook

    • 326

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10473 on: September 30, 2019, 01:15:15 pm »
Quote
I also notice that a lot of the music trash talking almost exclusively begins whenever a boy band is the subject. Doesn't seem to come up as often when girl groups are mentioned.  :wink:

Another example of female privilege I guess  :wink:


  • NorthStar
  • Expert Waygook

    • 737

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10474 on: September 30, 2019, 01:18:22 pm »
i saw some article the other day and the headline called BTS a boyband. everyone in the comments were going crazy about how BTS is more than just a boyband. they should be called "innovators" or some shit like that, instead of boyband. then there were comments like "well if BTS are a boyband, Nirvana should also be called a boyband". ughhh such drivel. their fans seem weirdly defensive and neurotic

BTS are a 'boyband' like 'New Kids on the Block' and crap manufactured stuff like that.  They don't play their own instruments.  They are dancers, that's it.  They're here today, and they'll be gone tomorrow, like 'One Direction'. 

Nirvana are, and always will be, innovators.   :-*
i think, deepdown, that most kpop fans know this, which is why they get so defensive all of the time

THIS


  • stoat
  • Super Waygook

    • 326

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10475 on: September 30, 2019, 01:24:46 pm »
Well thank god for that!  Please teach us poor, uneducated laymen riff raff more about music so we can enjoy it properly!
The only rule of music- If you like it, listen to it.

Why anyone takes it beyond that and starts judging people and getting all upset that people like different stuff is beyond me.

“What really matters is what you like, not what you are like”

― Nick Hornby, High Fidelity


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10476 on: September 30, 2019, 01:32:30 pm »
3) We're almost at the 30th anniversary of 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'. Get over it. Time passes you by. Learn to age gracefully.
4) Also, music in the 90s does not stop and start with Nirvana. Just as music in the 60s does not stop and start with the Beatles. Sorry, but Kurt Cobain's death was not the biggest music death of the 90s. That was 2Pac. A figure far bigger and more significant than Cobain and whose genre of music still persists to this day. And Motown was bigger AND better than the Beatles+The Beach Boys+The Rolling Stones. Yeah, I said it.

I sole reason this came up was from Oglop's original post about BTL comments on BTS...  Otherwise, we wouldn't be comparing Nirvana and BTS.   :undecided:

i saw some article the other day and the headline called BTS a boyband. everyone in the comments were going crazy about how BTS is more than just a boyband. they should be called "innovators" or some shit like that, instead of boyband. then there were comments like "well if BTS are a boyband, Nirvana should also be called a boyband".

People can listen to and enjoy what they want.  I have no problem with that.  It's cool.  Whatever floats your boat.  But innovative they are not.  Of course, through music history you can point to other music 'pioneers' who were influenced by others or got their raison d'etre from someone else.  That's fine.  But to label someone like BTS 'innovators'?  No.  The main innovation now is through marketing, social media and the like.  Music has developed, and is a very different beast from the 1990s.  When you have bands like Radiohead using a 'name your price' strategy like they did years ago.  That was innovative in the marketing stakes. 

My students love BTS as they're the target group, I can see that and I appreciate them enjoying it.   When they hear my music, I get the 'ohh, club music' from them.  Brill.  When I was in Turkey, with my friends in the summer, I always take a USB with music on it, and of course I get the 'this all sounds the same' comments.  Fine.  Water off a duck's back.  Years ago, me and brother went to a SKAM music night in Manchester.  In one auditorium, there was a Japanese guy on his laptop on the stage alone, and he played what I can only describe as white noise.  We sat down and listened.  After ten minutes, a beat came in.  There were plenty of people there who were 'feeling' the white noise, mind you.   :laugh:


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10477 on: September 30, 2019, 02:01:08 pm »
Quote
i think, deepdown, that most kpop fans know this, which is why they get so defensive all of the time

THIS
Really, you don't think it's because you went on a public forum and started trashing the kind of music they like?

As I pointed you-
"Your music is crap"
"Screw you dude"
"Why are you being so defensive?"

 :rolleyes:


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1912

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10478 on: September 30, 2019, 02:31:29 pm »
As someone who plays 3 instruments and has an ABRSM grade 7 music theory certificate...

So the whole point of your post then (because it's not even worth your time and it bores you) is to tell everyone that you play three instruments and have a music theory certificate  :wink:

I clearly stated that trashing BTS would be a waste of time so that I could open up into a more meaningful discussion about musical taste. If the subject of the conversation is around BTS and why they're bad, to me at least, it seems perfectly reasonable to approach the discussion from an actual musical argument, rather than sour old-man feelings. 
Is your ego that delicate that you're so threatened by somebody who knows more than you in a particular area?

Since you're a layman on music, you're not going to understand or appreciate harmonic or melodic analysis and that's fine, you can still enjoy music. 

Well thank god for that!  Please teach us poor, uneducated laymen riff raff more about music so we can enjoy it properly!

I get the impression that you really don't read what I write before answering. Music can be appreciated on different levels, some of those levels require a certain understanding of how it works.
Music is simply what I spent my time studying. Other folks spent their time learning things I wouldn't have the first clue about and I'd listen if they had something to say. I hate to disappoint you, but upstaging you was really not the motivation for me to work my ass off through years of study and practice. I did it because I like music and wanted to appreciate it on a deeper level.

I really can't help you with your insecurities.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 02:51:19 pm by Aristocrat »


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10479 on: September 30, 2019, 02:48:18 pm »
... can be appreciated on different levels, some of those levels require a certain understanding of how it works.

very true. pro-level reaver/shuttle micro looks relatively easy if you don't know what it takes to make it happen