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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10140 on: August 09, 2019, 11:17:02 pm »
i don't work for any MOE. i DO teach at a private elementary school, however, and can go home whenever i'm done planning. i get paid by the class, but also get paid overtime (same rate) if i need to do paperwork, which is nice. so i'm free to work other jobs and make more money if i want.

it's just a waste of everyone's time sitting at your desk doing nothing. if they offer you extra after school classes, fair enough. but sitting...doing nothing....for 4 hours every day? feck off
Again, you're not looking at this from the perspective of management or people who deal with things like government audits. For private schools, they don't have such oversight. For public schools, there's usually some sort of regulation behind such acts.

If you, as the boss, let one employee not show up even though their contract mandates it, then the other employees are going to demand such action. Then they'll try and push the envelope. First it's summer break. Then it becomes during the school year. Then employees start bickering and fighting over who gets special time off. Obviously SOMEONE has to stay. You can't just have the school completely abandoned after 3PM or whatever. Parents are going to expect that they'll be able to drop in during business hours and that the teachers are preparing adequately. If they show up and the school is completely closed, they'll rightfully ask "WTF is going on here? Are people taking their jobs seriously?" Or what if someone from the county or provincial level decides to call and wonders why no one is answering the phone?

And sooner or later SOMEONE will be outside of work during contractually specified hours and something will happen. This will prompt an audit. Do YOU want to be responsible for that?

You may believe that employees are always nice and honest and responsible and management is just a bunch of dimwitted meanies, but the second you assume that position of responsibility, you realize you have to set boundaries and employees are going to test those and do everything they can to maximize their advantage and they don't care what happens to you.

And seriously, this idea that getting paid money TO DO NOTHING is some horror, my goodness what an easy life someone must have led to develop such a mindset.

Or you know, people could just watch Netflix and do some light lesson prep during that time and everyone's chill and nothing goes wrong. But THAT is stupid. No, the good idea is for government employees to violate regulations.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10141 on: August 10, 2019, 09:15:35 am »
^ most other countries manage it

edit: i meant i'm not sure why any teachers (korean/foreign) have to stay. not just the NETs. even the korean teachers are often drinking coffee and gossiping, sleeping at their desks or online shopping

also, most of my teacher friends (uk) would do work at home/on weekends so they didn't have to stay at school
also, there's usually a receptionist who would stay until 5pm-ish(?) if anyone needs to contact the school
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 11:45:55 am by oglop »


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10142 on: August 10, 2019, 12:50:17 pm »
^ most other countries manage it

edit: i meant i'm not sure why any teachers (korean/foreign) have to stay. not just the NETs. even the korean teachers are often drinking coffee and gossiping, sleeping at their desks or online shopping
Again, hours negotiated through collective bargaining by the teacher's union in compliance with regulations set by the relevant government authority. Those hours and regulations, once set, must be adhered to. Some unions and governmental bodies may require their teachers to be in the building only during designated teaching hours. Others may mandate a specified number of hours per week or per term.

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/education-at-a-glance-2014/how-much-time-do-teachers-spend-teaching_eag_highlights-2014-26-en

As you can see, teachers have a specified number of days they must work and hours they must work.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/740575/School_teachers__pay_and_conditions_document_2018.pdf

Again, if you want Koreans to follow the contract, follow the contract yourself. This "follow the contract when it benefits me, but don't follow the contract when it doesn't benefit me" mindset is understandable, but not really the mindset of a person who is thinking objectively, nor is it the mindset of someone of someone concerned with maintaining a functioning system/organization. It is the mindset of someone who is just thinking ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME.

Also, the reason that desk-warming is more strictly enforced with NETS these days is apparently some schools were pretty lax about about it. However the policy wasn't applied uniformly across Korea (as it did violate regulations). People talk, and some NETs complained. Well thanks to them, word got around and people had to be more careful.

And again, I have to bring up the outlook on work and work ethic. It is seriously baffling how ANYONE can complain about being paid money to do literally nothing. Do they have any idea how lucky that is? For a lot of money, a job and earning money requires back-breaking dangerous labor, not watching Netflix. The unmitigated gall of someone to complain about that is ridiculous. There's a serious level of arrogance and privilege there.

Have they ever worked a job where they never want to say the words "I'm bored." or "There's nothing to do." or "Why are we just sitting here"?  Those of us who have, know what immediately happens after someone says that. The boss comes over and say "You're bored just sitting here? Nothing to do? Time for everyone to do a complete inventory/clean the place top to bottom/etc." Or even worse "You're right, why are you just sitting here? Go home. I think we can run today's shift with just the 3 of us." and suddenly you're out money for the night.

And this is before we even get to work ethic. Now, I'm not saying you should be madly working and making sure everything is perfect. But while watching Netflix or listening to a podcast you could be sorting through stuff and throwing it away. upgrading a few PPT photos to high-res, sorting the books in the English library, organizing your files, getting next semester's stuff photocopied ahead of time, lazily clicking through English materials, doing a bit of work on that new lesson topic you've wanted to try, something that's not labor or thought intensive,  but is still getting stuff done.

Also, invariably there are kids around the school because of other summer classes or whatever. Open up the English library and let them come in and enjoy the A/C and they'll browse and read some books. Interact with them. Maybe play some games or read a book with them. Or if you can't do that, go out on the playground. There's probably some playing soccer or tossing a baseball or whatever.

But yeah, if I was someone's boss and saw the me me me me mindset, my response would be to be strict about deskwarming and if the employee who can't be arsed to open up the English library and simply be there while kids read the books, while he/she is watching movies is going to be complain, screw them. Let them sit there. They're not lifting a finger for me or the school. Why should I stick my neck out for them? They're showing me and the school zero and the students zero respect and zero interest and having a bad attitude. 

Why would anyone want to employ someone who would complain about having to watch movies while deskwarming and wouldn't want to open their English library for the kids? Would YOU hire someone like that? Someone who will complain about literally having to do nothing? Something who shows zero initiative in trying to interact and provide opportunities to the kids?


  • oglop
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10143 on: August 10, 2019, 03:18:24 pm »
look, you can spin it however you want, but, desk warming is pointless. i would have the entire week planned and prepared by the end of monday, and be bored stiff tuesday-friday. none of the korean teachers needed help and i asked to do a voluntary class and was refused. i had literally nothing to do that was work-related.

not to mention having to come in during the vacation period and sit there in an empty office. well, an empty school


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10144 on: August 10, 2019, 03:24:51 pm »
look, you can spin it however you want, but, desk warming is pointless. i would have the entire week planned and prepared by the end of monday, and be bored stiff tuesday-friday. none of the korean teachers needed help and i asked to do a voluntary class and was refused. i had literally nothing to do that was work-related.

not to mention having to come in during the vacation period and sit there in an empty office. well, an empty school

What's your alternative system? YOU and only YOU get to leave whenever you feel like it? No contractually stated work hours and work days?

The point is that it maintains order, discipline, fairness, accountability, responsibility, and equal treatment.

My immediate response would be to adjust the budget by reducing teacher pay in proportion to the amount of hours they would miss and then reallocate it elsewhere. Clearly you don't need the money because you are unwilling to do ZERO work to earn it. And if you show zero initiative to work, then we would just be paying you to do nothing. From the perspective of management, you should be grateful you get paid money to do nothing. But since there's zero return and lots of complaints, I would rather that money go elsewhere or to more motivated employees.

In fact, if that is the attitude that is prevelant, perhaps it is time to eliminate all NETs from the Big 7 and replace them with Filipinos who we could pay 2/3rds as much and will have 4X the work ethic. Also, we can pay them hourly instead of salary.

Thanks for making a great case as to why you should be laid off. And since you might well be leaving outside of your designated working hours, if I have evidence, I can terminate you with cause. And if you signed any government documents that stated otherwise, I could pursue criminal charges of fraud/embezzlement and perjury and also take you to civil court to recover lost money + damages.

Or would you rather desk warm?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 03:41:12 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


  • Mister Tim
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10145 on: August 10, 2019, 03:54:28 pm »
Sigh.


  • oglop
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10146 on: August 10, 2019, 04:06:30 pm »
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What's your alternative system? YOU and only YOU get to leave whenever you feel like it? No contractually stated work hours and work days?

at my current job i get paid per class, and get paid overtime if i need to do extra paperwork

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The point is that it maintains order, discipline, fairness, accountability, responsibility, and equal treatment.
doesn't make it less pointless, which is my only point

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My immediate response would be to adjust the budget by reducing teacher pay in proportion to the amount of hours they would miss and then reallocate it elsewhere. Clearly you don't need the money because you are unwilling to do ZERO work to earn it.
NET wages are low anyway. isn't the starting wage 1.9m? wages haven't gone up in....ever? might not even be a bad negotiation - don't increase wages, but let you go home a bit earlier.

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And if you show zero initiative to work, then we would just be paying you to do nothing. From the perspective of management, you should be grateful you get paid money to do nothing. But since there's zero return and lots of complaints, I would rather that money go elsewhere or to more motivated employees.
i just told you i was trying to find stuff to do, but was shot down every time.

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In fact, if that is the attitude that is prevelant, perhaps it is time to eliminate all NETs from the Big 7 and replace them with Filipinos who we could pay 2/3rds as much and will have 4X the work ethic. Also, we can pay them hourly instead of salary.
i think this has been discussed before. just because you're filipino, it doesn't mean you have perfect english. (having said that, i'm sure a lot of NETs don't have a good grasp of grammar. but at least they know what is good/bad english).

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Thanks for making a great case as to why you should be laid off. And since you might well be leaving outside of your designated working hours, if I have evidence, I can terminate you with cause. And if you signed any government documents that stated otherwise, I could pursue criminal charges of fraud/embezzlement and perjury and also take you to civil court to recover lost money + damages.
more likely you'd just get a warning/not renewed. i doubt any public school would take you to court? the only time i skipped deskwarming was during the vacation when i was the only one in school. i wasn't going to renew anyway, and nobody ended up saying anything

Quote
Or would you rather desk warm?
no


  • Aristocrat
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10147 on: August 10, 2019, 05:06:44 pm »
The point is that it maintains order, discipline, fairness, accountability, responsibility, and equal treatment.

Nope, you ignored his words which were "...having to come in during vacation and sit in an empty office. well, an empty school"

During my first year, at a school I no longer work at, I was told to come in on a day when a typhoon was raging through the city; I'm talking about trees falling on cars and every other student and
teacher, save yours truly, was instructed to stay home by a particular asshole of a principal. To be clear, I wasn't forgotten, I was specifically told to come in.
Last year, my wife had to deskwarm, till 4:30, after camp, at a school were the principal allowed every other teacher, aside from her, to leave early. Only the janitor was the other soul in the entire building. These are only 2 examples of similar things I've heard of and personally experienced over the years.

I'm not seeing the "equal treatment" or "fairness" you mentioned and another thing, Korean HR teachers get PAID a lot more than we do to put up with that crap.

Furthermore, you forget a huge distinction; a Korean HR teacher gets paid to teach, do admin and put up with crap from parents. We are paid to teach AND live away from our homes, families, friends etc. Korean HR teachers get paid more than us and have admin work to do as well.

You know want to know why the majority of NETs end up "giving up" or becoming flaky teachers? Well, it's pretty much the exact same reason Korean teachers give up and why I've got a class filled with a dozen 13yr olds who've never been taught how to hold a f*cking pencil properly; teachers, in Korea, get little to no support.
When have NETs, or representatives of NETs, been called in by the POE to discuss curriculum? asked to select or appraise textbooks? asked for any thoughts at all?

I literally watched the zeal of 3 brand new Korean teachers (fresh out of college) diminish, week by week, as they realised that efforts to help a student/do their job, was usually met with fierce resistance instead of support and they'd eventually adopt the attitude of ambivalence I've come to know from so many Korean teachers and NETs.
A girl doesn't know her ABCs, I try to get her HR teacher to help me give her extra tuition, particularly as I'm not there 5 days a week. I was willing to sacrifice my deskwarming time. Nope, HR teacher is "too busy" and so is the girl. Parents complain if I give homework or discipline a kid for showing the finger to my CT. Spineless VP always takes the parents side.

What's the alternate system you say? Let NETs go home. We aren't paid by the hour.

I don't need to make a case, the proof is around us. Teachers (Korean and NET) are slacking because the higher ups basically give us a big FU instead of support and we respond in kind.
Teaching is a thankless profession, no need to make it harder, particularly when the reasons are completely unnecessary.


On a somewhat related note, Tino.

You should remember that many of the NETs here aren't actually on holiday. They're desperately trying to save. pay of loans, make a living and do their job well.
I don't know who you're trying to impress, but when you constantly sh*t on NETs for being lazy, entitled or whatever, it really doesn't make you sound humble, honest or virtuous. You think showing that you're not afraid to put the nature of your livelihood down makes you an objective person?
Nobody is impressed.




Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10148 on: August 10, 2019, 06:06:10 pm »
at my current job i get paid per class, and get paid overtime if i need to do extra paperwork
And that works great for private schools or Hagwons or other types of teaching. I used to teach Uni part-time and I got paid by the class and that was it.

But for public schools you have a different structure. They have to do everything in accordance with regulation. You can't just have arbitrary decisions by individual principals acting as local barons. Well, we used to have that. Till people complained and instead of some people getting time off through luck or skill, now you are getting this "by the book" treatment.

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doesn't make it less pointless, which is my only point
But again, it isn't pointless. There are reasons for it. Also, did they sign the contract to work those hours? Yes? THEN STFU AND WORK THE EFFIN HOURS. If they don't like it, don't sign.

Seriously, for as much as people on this site bitch and moan about Korean's not following contracts, they sure do love to bitch and moan about having to follow the contract.

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i just told you i was trying to find stuff to do, but was shot down every time.
That means the place you worked exercised desk-warming poorly, not that the concept in general is bad.

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NET wages are low anyway. isn't the starting wage 1.9m? wages haven't gone up in....ever? might not even be a bad negotiation - don't increase wages, but let you go home a bit earlier.
If I was consulting, I'd say eliminate pay during break months. Don't come in and get zero dollars. or would you rather get paid 2.2 million to watch Netflix?

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i think this has been discussed before. just because you're filipino, it doesn't mean you have perfect english. (having said that, i'm sure a lot of NETs don't have a good grasp of grammar. but at least they know what is good/bad english).
It's about opportunity-cost. If Big-7 workers are going to have a poor attitude, and Grade C- work ethic for B+ levels of English, then I might take Filipinos with A- work ethic and B- levels of English for 2/3rds the pay. More efficient outlay of resources. I can then take the money saved and put it somewhere else.

Quote
no
Fine. Don't want to work, don't get paid. Zero reason the school should pay you. Also, it's apparent you don't think your job is important or essential to fight for it.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10149 on: August 10, 2019, 06:32:20 pm »
During my first year, at a school I no longer work at, I was told to come in on a day when a typhoon was raging through the city; I'm talking about trees falling on cars and every other student and
teacher, save yours truly, was instructed to stay home by a particular asshole of a principal. To be clear, I wasn't forgotten, I was specifically told to come in.
Last year, my wife had to deskwarm, till 4:30, after camp, at a school were the principal allowed every other teacher, aside from her, to leave early. Only the janitor was the other soul in the entire building. These are only 2 examples of similar things I've heard of and personally experienced over the years.

I'm not seeing the "equal treatment" or "fairness" you mentioned and another thing, Korean HR teachers get PAID a lot more than we do to put up with that crap.

Furthermore, you forget a huge distinction; a Korean HR teacher gets paid to teach, do admin and put up with crap from parents. We are paid to teach AND live away from our homes, families, friends etc. Korean HR teachers get paid more than us and have admin work to do as well.

You know want to know why the majority of NETs end up "giving up" or becoming flaky teachers? Well, it's pretty much the exact same reason Korean teachers give up and why I've got a class filled with a dozen 13yr olds who've never been taught how to hold a f*cking pencil properly; teachers, in Korea, get little to no support.
When have NETs, or representatives of NETs, been called in by the POE to discuss curriculum? asked to select or appraise textbooks? asked for any thoughts at all?

I literally watched the zeal of 3 brand new Korean teachers (fresh out of college) diminish, week by week, as they realised that efforts to help a student/do their job, was usually met with fierce resistance instead of support and they'd eventually adopt the attitude of ambivalence I've come to know from so many Korean teachers and NETs.
A girl doesn't know her ABCs, I try to get her HR teacher to help me give her extra tuition, particularly as I'm not there 5 days a week. I was willing to sacrifice my deskwarming time. Nope, HR teacher is "too busy" and so is the girl. Parents complain if I give homework or discipline a kid for showing the finger to my CT. Spineless VP always takes the parents side.
Everything you describe is desk-warming poorly executed, not desk-warming being wrong period.

Quote
What's the alternate system you say? Let NETs go home. We aren't paid by the hour.
I'd be fine with staying home and not getting paid period. Would you? No Pay Jan 25-Feb 25 and No Pay in summer.

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I don't need to make a case, the proof is around us. Teachers (Korean and NET) are slacking because the higher ups basically give us a big FU instead of support and we respond in kind.
Teaching is a thankless profession, no need to make it harder, particularly when the reasons are completely unnecessary.
Again, if you've ever been in management, you'd know that the slacking and thanklessness goes both ways and that managers often stick their necks out for the workers or do stuff and never get thanked or just blamed for stuff.

But there's a serious level of selfishness here- I mentioned that in employees who insist on the contract when it comes to attending a special school event on Saturday, then whine about having to follow the contract when their principal says they have to desk warm. You can't have it both ways.

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I don't know who you're trying to impress, but when you constantly sh*t on NETs for being lazy, entitled or whatever, it really doesn't make you sound humble, honest or virtuous. You think showing that you're not afraid to put the nature of your livelihood down makes you an objective person?
Nobody is impressed.
I don't shit on NETs. I shit on people who are here as NETs and are literally complaining about getting paid money to do NOTHING. Like, that is so mind-boggling I cannot wrap my head around. If you've ever had to scrap save and fight for a job or do something involving intensive labor or your livelihood depending on getting enough hours and tips in a work week, the idea that you would complain about getting paid decent money TO DO NOTHING is just so flabbergasting. I mean, there are 4 billion people who would literally give their right kidney to have such a job. "Paid money to watch Netflix? Seriously???? You mean I don't have to stick my hands in the meat grinder or inhale black soot or be out in 35 degree weather or spend 8 hours bent over? The only health risk is carpal tunnel from playing online games?"

I'm sorry, but I will call that out as entitled because it is 100% true. Did you sign the contract? Yes or no? Yes? Then effing show up and be grateful that all you have to do is watch TV. 

This isn't about impressing anyone. There's a basic fundamental sense of right and wrong about this. You signed the contract and agreed to work those hours. Not only that but the people complaining will bitch and moan if their employer doesn't exactly follow the contract. When your CT or principal asked you for a favor, did you do it? No? And now you want a favor from them?

Now, I for one, agree with the "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours", let's work this out approach rather than getting all legalistic. And if I'm doing favors or overlooking stuff in the contract but you aren't upholding your end, well then screw them and yeah, gripe about desk-warming all you want. That's fair. That's being abused.

But with some standard public school job where things are relatively smooth, just go in and desk-warm. Seriously. It's on the level of being given a free car and complaining that you don't get to choose the color. That level of entitlement and lack of perspective.


  • oglop
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10150 on: August 10, 2019, 07:28:26 pm »
can't be arsed to use quotes so i'll just use numbers

1. that's not what i'm saying. it's just a silly regulation. that's literally my whole point

2. it was fine for the first 2 years i worked at public school as i had after-school classes. they got cut in the last year i worked there, and then i realise how awful desk warming was

3. in that case, most schools exercise desk warming poorly, or they'd be no complaints. well, actually, that would mean the concept of desk warming wouldn't even exist (by definition it's sitting at your desk doing nothing, right?). if you were sitting at a desk, not teaching but doing work, it would just be called "working"

4. 2.2m for an 8 hour day is still low. 2.2m for a 6 hour day is much more "reasonable". wages haven't increased for 15 years, plus bonuses/benefits have since been cut from the contracts. just saying it might be a good idea going forward. if the MOEs aren't gonna increase wages, why not reduce hours instead? seems like something they should consider

5. being able to plan effectively and quickly doesn't mean you have a poor work ethic. you could spend 5 hours on a single lesson plan and it could still be terrible. or you could spend 5 minutes on a lesson and it could be a huge success. time spent on planning =/= good teaching/good lessons. one of the first things they teach you on your CELTA course is "work smarter, not harder"

6. that's why i found another job. that's something like 960 fewer hours every year needlessly sitting at a desk (while earning more money)   8)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 08:28:36 pm by oglop »


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10151 on: August 11, 2019, 06:33:54 am »
For some ridiculous reason I don't understand, the principal at my main elementary school has shortened the summer holidays. This school ended classes around the same time  as all the other elementary schools and starts classes 2 weeks before any other elementary school in the city, everyone goes back to school on Wednesday.

Seriously, f*ck that guy. 


  • HappyPlanetAbuser
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10152 on: August 11, 2019, 06:40:50 am »
Quote
there are 4 billion people who would literally give their right kidney to have such a job.

Then let them teach for an entire year.
Oh, I forgot...Koreans only want blonde female American to teach.


I agree wholeheartedly with oglop that no school nor principal should ever dare to instruct me on how to manage my afternoons or free periods  between classes. I'd probably sue them. First bury your teachers under a huge workload and then also tell them to stay at school? How about I quit and the school needs to find a replacement? You can tell that expensive sub (110 euros p/hour) to stay at school while I'll collect my job seekers allowance!
At home!
Who's ready for another 4 years of Trump 2020!


  • HappyPlanetAbuser
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10153 on: August 11, 2019, 06:48:55 am »
.  everyone goes back to school on Wednesday.

That sucks, but surely  you will get them back one way or another, perhaps 3  weeks of Christmas holiday and cheer or... 2 months of Summer recess?
Who's ready for another 4 years of Trump 2020!


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10154 on: August 11, 2019, 04:59:23 pm »
1. that's not what i'm saying. it's just a silly regulation. that's literally my whole point
But it's NOT a silly regulation. Again, you are not looking at it through the perspective of someone who has to implement and maintain a working system that is fair and subject to regulation. There's lots of rules that are "dumb" from an individual perspective, but when you think about things systemically, they make sense.

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and then i realise how awful desk warming was
If your definition of "awful" is getting paid good money to just watch movies, you have no clue what awful is, and it shows what a privileged, sheltered life you've lived.

I might call desk-warming tedious or somewhat lame. But awful to the point of complaining about getting paid money to watch movies? Seriously?

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that would mean the concept of desk warming wouldn't even exist (by definition it's sitting at your desk doing nothing, right?). if you were sitting at a desk, not teaching but doing work, it would just be called "working"
You couldn't update your PPTs? Find some new materials? Sort the books in the English library? Open the English library and read stories?

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2.2m for an 8 hour day is still low. 2.2m for a 6 hour day is much more "reasonable".
Reasonable is what the market is and what you're willing to sign for.

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wages haven't increased for 15 years, plus bonuses/benefits have since been cut from the contracts. just saying it might be a good idea going forward. if the MOEs aren't gonna increase wages, why not reduce hours instead? seems like something they should consider
Again, you are only looking at things from the perspective of you or the worker. . At higher levels your focus isn't just Native English Teachers. It's the entire educational system with 20 different areas all competing for money and YOU competing with the police, health care, the military, infrastructure and transportation, social security, etc. for money. You can't just print money on your own and give more money to teachers and schools.

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being able to plan effectively and quickly doesn't mean you have a poor work ethic. you could spend 5 hours on a single lesson plan and it could still be terrible. or you could spend 5 minutes on a lesson and it could be a huge success. time spent on planning =/= good teaching/good lessons. one of the first things they teach you on your CELTA course is "work smarter, not harder"
The number of people who are working less and telling themselves they are working smarter vs. the number of people actually working smarter is wildly disproportionate. You might actually be working smarter, but the odds are against it. Again, this is something that being a manager will teach you. That the bullshit employees believe about themselves is often not true.

For starters, it's highly improbable that every time you create your lesson you have achieved perfection. Now you may have a great, smart system for consistently creating 94% effective lessons, thereby allowing you to function efficiently during the school year. Desk-warming is the perfect time to go back and increase their effectiveness to 97% or higher. In this case, efficiency and balancing time is not so much of an issue. You can be "inefficient" and spend more time to increase effectiveness by small amounts.

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that's why i found another job. that's something like 960 fewer hours every year needlessly sitting at a desk (while earning more money) 

I support this. Go and do what's best for you and if the contract is more beneficial, do that.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10155 on: August 11, 2019, 05:00:56 pm »
For some ridiculous reason I don't understand, the principal at my main elementary school has shortened the summer holidays. This school ended classes around the same time  as all the other elementary schools and starts classes 2 weeks before any other elementary school in the city, everyone goes back to school on Wednesday.

Seriously, f*ck that guy.
Aren't the teachers upset? I mean, wouldn't this violate the CBA the school system has with the teacher's union? Surely there has to be more to this.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10156 on: August 11, 2019, 05:08:03 pm »
Then let them teach for an entire year.

Oh, I forgot...Koreans only want blonde female American to teach.
Or Filipinos for 1/2-2/3rds the cost.

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I agree wholeheartedly with oglop that no school nor principal should ever dare to instruct me on how to manage my afternoons or free periods  between classes.
Seriously, the level of ego behind that statement is mind-boggling. Dude, you aren't the boss. You signed the contract, you agreed to be hired under someone, function within the system.

Of course if you were ever in charge (and judging from the attitude, you've never been in charge of anything of any significance), you'd soon realize that yes, employees are subject to oversight and directives from management, because employees left to their own devices, can start to significantly decline in performance.

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How about I quit and the school needs to find a replacement? You can tell that expensive sub (110 euros p/hour) to stay at school while I'll collect my job seekers allowance!
At home!
Or fire you for cause. Or even worse, see if you actually do leave work unauthorized or have signed anything falsely, and then throw the book at you.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

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    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10157 on: August 11, 2019, 06:10:34 pm »
1. do other countries require their teachers to sit doing nothing for 4 hours a day?

2. if i finish my duties, why am i still there? anyway, just because other people have worse jobs around the world, it doesn't make desk warming less rubbish. you could apply this to anything, ever:

"this lunch isn't good"
"are you kidding? so many people around the world don't even GET to eat lunch"

"i'm tired"
"well, at least you slept in a bed. many people don't even own beds!"

"these working conditions aren't great"
"what about people who don't have a job? or people who have to work 16 hour days"

3. yes. none of those things take 20 hours a week

4. that's true.

5. eh, just saying if they don't want to increase wages, reduce the pointless desk warming hours. was just an idea off the top of my head

6. eh, whatever. i got a Pass A on my CELTA and always received good feedback from open classes. i'd argue there's such a thing as over-planning, anyway. besides, after teaching the present perfect for the 100th time, you really don't need to plan much, as you generally know what works and doesn't work, and what the best activities to use are

7. it's a shame there aren't regular training days during desk warming hours. going to watch another person teach, getting some ideas for activities, or being taught some teaching methodology. those are the things that would have helped me most when i started teaching, and would have made me a better teacher.


  • HappyPlanetAbuser
  • Super Waygook

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    more
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10158 on: August 12, 2019, 07:23:38 am »
Seriously, the level of ego behind that statement is mind-boggling. Dude, you aren't the boss. You signed the contract, you agreed to be hired under someone, function within the system.

1) My point is that you guys are sorely mistreated and exploited. The contracts I see here are absolutely revoltingly abusive. If that makes my ego seem extraordinarily bloated to you, perhaps yours has been beaten down to a pulp so much that you are willing to defend such institutionalised abuse.

2) I have several positions within my school, among one of them is trainer. You misunderstand or are completely ignorant of how a school is run in the west. We as a team fulfil all positions, also the managerial ones. Most teachers, except for starting ones, are in charge of a team like mine or a specific orthopedagogical project. Being in charge of a team is nothing to relish, one does it as an 'extra' because one is asked to do so and quite often people run themselves into a burnout and then revert back to teaching responsibilities, letting others take over the extra workload of managing a team. 

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employees left to their own devices, can start to significantly decline in performance.
Do you know that you always arrive at the same talking point? Namely, that people are sinners and ought to be punished severely, lest the rule of law and people's authority is challenged by this or that ominous group.  But this time we are not talking about uncontrollable hapless teenagers with cell phones, this time we are talking about us, TEACHERS. Do you really believe we are not to be trusted because if it were left up to us we would party like it's 1999? At all the schools I have worked at, managing teachers in the way you hint at, does not exist, perhaps only in Asia. And it had better, because if anyone would ever act as you described we would have a month-long nationwide strike. You simply do not treat teachers with such mistrust. We are teachers for crying out loud, how would you envision the Education dept. instructing us to sit randomly at a desk because we are 'getting paid' for it? How about the 30-odd extra unpaid hours per week we end up spending preparing lessons and representing the school in all our communications with people? I think the minister would even lose his job if he were ever to tell us teachers to deskwarm needlessly. How on earth would you be able to retain your staff?

What you perhaps do not get is that the primary role of a manager is to help and assist the team. Not to tell colleagues how to do their work, because we all believe and trust each other that we will always strive to get the best results for our students.

Now coming full circle here: Marty, if you love people and trust them, they will return that favour. Treat them with mistrust and punishment and they will not listen to a word you might have to say. You work at a school and you are a teacher, get with the programme, mate, this certainly can't be your first year as a teacher so clearly you must have seen this, too. We should always make that first step in trusting students and helping them. Trying to exert control over people with punishment is counter-productive and quite frankly, shows a limited range of negotiation skills.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 07:44:25 am by HappyPlanetAbuser »
Who's ready for another 4 years of Trump 2020!


  • HappyPlanetAbuser
  • Super Waygook

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    • in my car polluting your air
    more
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10159 on: August 12, 2019, 07:33:48 am »
@echo off
Print "x"

x= Why am I wasting time writing a op-ed piece to marty in the ranting thread at 1 am!!! 

/end rant
Who's ready for another 4 years of Trump 2020!