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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10100 on: July 25, 2019, 03:06:07 pm »
Trump was supposed to be Hitler and start WWIII and collapse the economy and ignite a race war. It hasn't happened.
Brexit is supposed to totally ruin the UK. Sure. Ok. Norway and Switzerland not being in the EU has led to the utter collapse of those societies.
What's Putin done? Some border skirmishes and he rules Russia as an authoritarian. Okay not the best, but that puts him in league with the Chinese, the Saudis, the Israelis, India, Pakistan, etc. And if the majority of the Russian people want an authoritarian system of government, is that wrong? Isn't that part of freedom? Some want to be on the order side rather than the liberal side. That's their choice.

Look at the EU- what an abjectly bad system of government. Just because the idea of the EU is good, doesn't mean the system it's created is good. And if the system is bad, it isn't going to work, no matter how noble the concept.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10101 on: July 25, 2019, 03:21:48 pm »
puts him in league with the Chinese, the Saudis, the Israelis, India, Pakistan, etc. And if the majority of the Russian people want an authoritarian system of government, is that wrong? Isn't that part of freedom? Some want to be on the order side rather than the liberal side. That's their choice.

having the majority =/= being right

and yeah it's great to be authoritarian if you have the power or if you are favored. ask the uighurs about how authoritarianism is working out for them... this is some grade A nonsense. can you imagine telling someone in the 40s "bbbbbut they 'elected' hitler, so it's okay" just because trump or putin or whoever isn't actually hitler doesn't make authoritarianism cool


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10102 on: July 25, 2019, 03:43:42 pm »
can you imagine telling someone in the 40s "bbbbbut they 'elected' hitler, so it's okay" just because trump or putin or whoever isn't actually hitler doesn't make authoritarianism cool
Hitler was elected, that kind of goes into my point. An authoritarian system of government, sans elections, can certainly cause problems, but so can a democratically elected one. Now, democratically elected ones have more safeguards, but this notion that an authoritarian structure is inherently wrong is false. A well-run monarchy might be better than an unstable democracy. Would a "kinder, gentler" Stalin have been able to resist the Germans? How about Mao/Chiang  and the Japanese? A nice government can be just as awful because it neglects a fundamental aspect of governance- safety and security. Now authoritarian governments tend to wayyy overemphasize those and neglect other foundational elements of governance, but that doesn't mean that everything is all one way or the other.

Would you rather live under Assad or Saddam or revert to the state of nature that consumed Iraq and Syria? Before Mao, China was repeatedly invaded and fractured. The British Empire abolished slavery long before the American republic did so. Kings and dukes and the Church prevented racial and ethnic strife because all that mattered was loyalty to the sovereign. Get rid of their authority and you unleash centuries of religious and national warfare on an unprecedented scale as unifying factors are discarded.

Furthermore, many emerging democracies have a period of more authoritarian rule or uniparty rule before they become full-fledged democracies. This is often necessary to build stability and develop to the point where real democracy can emerge and prevent internal civil strife.

Anyways, the point was more of a theoretical one. The Russians LIKE a more orderly, autocratic government. Are we to deny them that simply because other autocracies have bungled things? That seems as justifiable as imposition of other systems like republics and democracies because democracies have given rise to Hitler.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 03:50:15 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


  • pkjh
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10103 on: July 25, 2019, 04:48:34 pm »
The Russians LIKE a more orderly, autocratic government.
Wrong... It's like going back to 1960s Korea, or Taiwan, and saying that they liked being ruled under their respective dictatorships.  Sure NOW a lot of older people may look back and say that it was good, only because the current conditions are pretty nice. But, trust me, at the time the vast majority hated it, and if the economy didn't turn out as it did now, they would still  hate it.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10104 on: July 26, 2019, 07:51:53 am »
can you imagine telling someone in the 40s "bbbbbut they 'elected' hitler, so it's okay" just because trump or putin or whoever isn't actually hitler doesn't make authoritarianism cool
Hitler was elected, that kind of goes into my point. An authoritarian system of government, sans elections, can certainly cause problems, but so can a democratically elected one. Now, democratically elected ones have more safeguards, but this notion that an authoritarian structure is inherently wrong is false.

"wrong." historically, autocratic regimes have caused far more "problems" than democratic ones (not to say that democracies, especially the US, haven't caused problems as well).

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A well-run monarchy might be better than an unstable democracy. Would a "kinder, gentler" Stalin have been able to resist the Germans? How about Mao/Chiang  and the Japanese? A nice government can be just as awful because it neglects a fundamental aspect of governance- safety and security. Now authoritarian governments tend to wayyy overemphasize those and neglect other foundational elements of governance, but that doesn't mean that everything is all one way or the other.

this is all irrelevant. we are talking about government structures not the personality of individual leaders. a weaker churchill might've surrendered, but it has nothing to do with democratic vs autocratic forms of government.

Quote
Would you rather live under Assad or Saddam or revert to the state of nature that consumed Iraq and Syria? Before Mao, China was repeatedly invaded and fractured. The British Empire abolished slavery long before the American republic did so. Kings and dukes and the Church prevented racial and ethnic strife because all that mattered was loyalty to the sovereign. Get rid of their authority and you unleash centuries of religious and national warfare on an unprecedented scale as unifying factors are discarded

the first question presents as false dichotomy. the obvious answer is neither. the rest is examples of minor achievements in justice made by autocratic governments. obviously, the church and the british empire were involved in tons of other "activities" that the american republic was not.

Quote
Furthermore, many emerging democracies have a period of more authoritarian rule or uniparty rule before they become full-fledged democracies. This is often necessary to build stability and develop to the point where real democracy can emerge and prevent internal civil strife.

we aren't talking about autocracies becoming democracies (which is good and v. cool). we are talking about democracies sliding back into autocracy. at least, if people like you are to be listened to because "autocracy isn't that bad." the fact remains that the spread of democracy has created the world we now live in (check out LI's link). i don't want to revert to mao's china or any other autocratic government you've mentioned. i like my civil liberties and i'd rather they be expanded and not ~deleted~.

Quote
Anyways, the point was more of a theoretical one. The Russians LIKE a more orderly, autocratic government. Are we to deny them that simply because other autocracies have bungled things? That seems as justifiable as imposition of other systems like republics and democracies because democracies have given rise to Hitler.

yes. and yes, democracies have given rise to hitler... as well as the world we live in (which is getting better, not worse)


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10105 on: July 26, 2019, 02:33:21 pm »
Do you mean the native English teachers or just foreigners in general comprising many careers? It sounds like they are into their little clique and don't mix well with new comers.

Native English teachers, mostly, because those are the majority of foreigners in my town, but we do get contract workers, too, and the ones that choose to hang around the same haunts are basically the same.

They are incredibly cliquey here, but in the most obnoxious, unrealistic ways possible. They base their judgments on really stupid high school shit, like whether or not you drink alcohol, and I can't even get into the stuff they've said and done without getting super pissed off about it, so I'm going to leave that alone. I'll just say that a lot of them are the creepiest fuckers you'll ever meet, and that you can't_can't_can't trust anything they say. They lie so ****** much about others, especially those they're threatened by, and I honestly don't know how a few of them haven't had their heads hammered down into their chests, yet.

Newcomers are welcome as long as you drink and conform to their dynamics. The others get ostracized and shit on.


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10106 on: July 29, 2019, 08:36:30 pm »
I've taught in classrooms which had TVs nearly as big as a small car
I've taught in classrooms which had 3-D TVs and glasses
I've taught in classrooms with PA systems and surround sound speakers
I've taught in classrooms with dozens of English focused board games
I've taught in classrooms with hundreds of English story books

... I've never taught in a class which had a single Korean-English dictionary.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10107 on: July 30, 2019, 06:53:52 am »
I've taught in classrooms which had TVs nearly as big as a small car
I've taught in classrooms which had 3-D TVs and glasses
I've taught in classrooms with PA systems and surround sound speakers
I've taught in classrooms with dozens of English focused board games
I've taught in classrooms with hundreds of English story books

... I've never taught in a class which had a single Korean-English dictionary.

Careful Aristocrat, you'll have the "no translation allowed" esl police after you!

But yes I agree that it's very odd.  My classroom has a cabinet full of English story books that have never been touched.  The cabinet is actually locked and nobody can find the key haha.


  • Nokcha
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10108 on: July 30, 2019, 07:27:52 am »
I teach in elementary and have been to two different schools, and neither had an alphabet.


  • oglop
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10109 on: July 30, 2019, 07:48:47 am »
to be fair, you don't really need an english dictionary at elementary schools. they'd take 10 minutes looking up something, and the class is only 40 minutes

i used to teach IELTS in australia, and many of the korean/japanese students would have those electronic dictionaries. the dictionaries would always give a weird, antiquated translations though, so it was always a chore when reading their essays, trying to figure out what the hell they are trying to say :laugh:


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10110 on: July 30, 2019, 08:41:46 am »
There are five in my middle school classroom, but they never get used unless the students are forced, and you really, really have to force them.

I have no idea why. They're like personal cheat guides.


  • shostager
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10111 on: July 30, 2019, 11:50:08 am »
There are five in my middle school classroom, but they never get used unless the students are forced, and you really, really have to force them.

I have no idea why. They're like personal cheat guides.

I have six in my middle school room, and I tend to use/offer them for after school classes and camps. My writing-focused after school class uses them without prompting (they're shy, and they prefer it to asking the teacher sometimes). During camp, I allow the dictionaries for cheat guides in certain games, especially if I'm disqualifying things based on spelling. Students tend to reach for dictionaries more if they're already on the desks, too.

Dictionaries might be helpful in class (i.e. if a student doesn't know a word on a worksheet, or needs a word for making a poster or something), but I've never seen a full set in a classroom.


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1912

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10112 on: July 30, 2019, 12:54:04 pm »
to be fair, you don't really need an english dictionary at elementary schools. they'd take 10 minutes looking up something, and the class is only 40 minutes

i used to teach IELTS in australia, and many of the korean/japanese students would have those electronic dictionaries. the dictionaries would always give a weird, antiquated translations though, so it was always a chore when reading their essays, trying to figure out what the hell they are trying to say :laugh:

It's more a question of teaching them to take initiative. Whenever most students don't understand a word or sentence, they'll either give up or just ask the teacher or a friend.  Once they're told what the word means, they completely forget the English word. English simply becomes a code to immediately translate into Korean instead of a language of it's own.  A dictionary, not an electronic one, creates the habit of trying to figure out what one doesn't know. The effort required to look up the word and gradually comprehend the sentence makes the brain think more critically and increases the likelihood that the word will be remembered.

Today, I designed an Escape Room activity for camp. The students thoroughly enjoyed it, even though only one team successfully completed it and even then, it was with
PLENTY of hints from my CT . Basically, each time they found an item they were given a clue which gave the location of the next item.

The clues were somewhat challenging, but nothing they hadn't learned before or couldn't handle.

The problem my CT and I noticed was that the students simply didn't finish reading the clues, before trying to figure out what the sentence actually meant, they'd stop reading, usually mid-sentence, once they thought they knew and simply scratch wherever they could. Once they didn't find the item, not one of them attempted to slowly reread or comprehend the entire clue... it was a perfect illustration of impatience and a lack of focus.
What I also noticed was that not one of the students took charge of their team and once scratching wherever they could, regardless of what the hint said, yielded nothing, they'd all start arguing.

Patience, the ability to focus and leadership skills are very rare to find over here.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 01:05:27 pm by Aristocrat »


  • oglop
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10113 on: July 30, 2019, 01:19:28 pm »
i probably bother looking up a french word i didn't know, in french class (even though the teacher kept telling us), so i do udnerstand that

but, yes, kids are more or less spoon-fed everything here. if you think it's bad in elementary, my wife's biggest complain about kindergarten (she's a kindy teacher) is that they aren't allowed to do ANYTHING for themselves. the are treated like complete babies


  • elsbethm
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10114 on: July 30, 2019, 02:57:38 pm »
Omg, so spoon-fed.
I did an activity during my camp which was definitely hard.  But I gave them all the tools they needed to do it, they just needed to put in 2 seconds of thought and a bit of effort.
My cot almost stopped the activity, but I managed to stop him.  Next thing we know, we have a class full of students doing an amazing job and really enjoying the activity. 

Reminds me of my first year. I was playing a writing game with my grade 4s with the words (and numbers) written on the chalkboard.  All they had to do was think of the number, look at board, and write the English word that was there.
Nope! Apparently that was too hard so my cot told them to just write the numeral (ie-no English). The next week they had a writing test and, no surprise, they failed. 
And somehow my cot was shocked by that.


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1912

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10115 on: July 31, 2019, 08:30:01 am »
Camp usually ends up bringing way more frustration than the same time spent teaching.

Almost 40 students volunteered for my school's camp, including 2 of my star students. These 2 girls are diligent, humble, curious and always enthusiastic about improving their English and knowledge of western culture. There was only space for 20 students, so, a kind of lottery was put in place and unfortunately, these girls didn't win. They told me they were pretty disappointed and tried extra hard in the classes preceding the end of the school term. 

First day of camp, 3 students don't show up.

One casually strolls in the next day, 20min late, and I ask where she was.  The girl sheepishly says she was sleeping, and laughs. Not one person in the class, including my CT saw the problem. The other 2 didn't arrive.

Today, 2 students are missing. Where are they? Oh, their family decided to go on vacation. They signed up for the camp, came for the first day and the family decides to go on holiday. The exact same thing happens almost every year at every camp.

Sometimes, I really don't understand the mentality in this country and it's a good thing my time here is limited.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10116 on: July 31, 2019, 09:22:13 am »
My camps are normally filled to capacity. As far as I know it's always first come, first serve, but I'm not sure what they do whenever the number of students submitting their applications at the same time exceed the number of spaces available. But yeah, there are always students who either don't show up at all, or they come in very late.

Edited: Decided that there was too much identifying info in this post, so deleted most of it, lol. I'll just summarize by saying that my camps were an absolute circus this year, but the fact that I thrive in chaos caught a lot of students off guard and made the event really fun for me.

I can't wait to see how word will get around about it.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 10:20:11 am by Chinguetti »


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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10117 on: July 31, 2019, 06:23:12 pm »
Camp usually ends up bringing way more frustration than the same time spent teaching.

Almost 40 students volunteered for my school's camp, including 2 of my star students. These 2 girls are diligent, humble, curious and always enthusiastic about improving their English and knowledge of western culture. There was only space for 20 students, so, a kind of lottery was put in place and unfortunately, these girls didn't win. They told me they were pretty disappointed and tried extra hard in the classes preceding the end of the school term. 

First day of camp, 3 students don't show up.

One casually strolls in the next day, 20min late, and I ask where she was.  The girl sheepishly says she was sleeping, and laughs. Not one person in the class, including my CT saw the problem. The other 2 didn't arrive.

Today, 2 students are missing. Where are they? Oh, their family decided to go on vacation. They signed up for the camp, came for the first day and the family decides to go on holiday. The exact same thing happens almost every year at every camp.

Sometimes, I really don't understand the mentality in this country and it's a good thing my time here is limited.

Summer camps arenít much different in Canada. We are here for longer than expected, and my son has been successful in getting into 4  weekly camps from the waiting list.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10118 on: August 01, 2019, 10:31:49 am »
Camp usually ends up bringing way more frustration than the same time spent teaching.

Almost 40 students volunteered for my school's camp, including 2 of my star students. These 2 girls are diligent, humble, curious and always enthusiastic about improving their English and knowledge of western culture. There was only space for 20 students, so, a kind of lottery was put in place and unfortunately, these girls didn't win. They told me they were pretty disappointed and tried extra hard in the classes preceding the end of the school term. 

First day of camp, 3 students don't show up.

One casually strolls in the next day, 20min late, and I ask where she was.  The girl sheepishly says she was sleeping, and laughs. Not one person in the class, including my CT saw the problem. The other 2 didn't arrive.

Today, 2 students are missing. Where are they? Oh, their family decided to go on vacation. They signed up for the camp, came for the first day and the family decides to go on holiday. The exact same thing happens almost every year at every camp.

Sometimes, I really don't understand the mentality in this country and it's a good thing my time here is limited.

Those students should be banned from attending future camps to teach them (and their parents) a lesson about manners. I know that a Korean public servant would never be brave enough to do that and face the inevitable outrage from the entitled parents, but it's what those rude and disrespectful families deserve.


  • Mr C
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Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10119 on: August 01, 2019, 12:44:27 pm »
to be fair, you don't really need an english dictionary at elementary schools. they'd take 10 minutes looking up something, and the class is only 40 minutes

Generally true.  But my sixth graders do a debate during the lesson on expressing opinions, and the dictionaries get some serious use as the teams are preparing their arguments.