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  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1739

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10000 on: July 02, 2019, 12:06:19 pm »
That's exactly what they're doing, hiding from the world for an hour or two. As long as they're sitting on some stupid piece of machinery that nobody should be using, like the leg-extension machine, then they're doing the rest of the gym a favour.

What is with all the hate for leg extension machines, lol?

Quote from Jeff Cavaliere

"Iíve written before about this one, but it bears writing about it again (especially because itís my least favorite of them all). The leg extension is one of the most unnatural and impractical (meaningÖnonfunctional) exercises you can do in the gym.  Itís trying to strengthen your knee to extend or straighten, but it does so with your legs flying freely in the air!

At what point are you straightening both legs at the same time in the air?!?  Unless youíre working on a flying trapeze for a livingÖthe answer is never!  If that wasnít bad enough, itís the damage that is done to your knees that makes this one brutal!

With a shearing force that is up to 8 times the amount of weight youíre attempting to lift, being borne across your knee joint on each and every repÖitís no wonder how just a few workouts of these can take even the healthiest knee and reduce it to a nothing more than a clicking, aching, creaky hinge joint that even the Tin Manís oil canít fix!"


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10001 on: July 02, 2019, 12:16:55 pm »

Isn't that only really a problem if people are lifting too heavy on the machine, though? They're meant for high rep, low weight.

My mom used it a lot as part of her rehabilitation to help strengthen the muscles around her knees. She was always instructed to use it one leg at a time, though, and not to use too much weight.


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1739

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10002 on: July 02, 2019, 12:57:32 pm »

Isn't that only really a problem if people are lifting too heavy on the machine, though? They're meant for high rep, low weight.

My mom used it a lot as part of her rehabilitation to help strengthen the muscles around her knees. She was always instructed to use it one leg at a time, though, and not to use too much weight.

What do you mean by "too heavy"?

The purpose of any exercise, particularly for rehabilitation, is to add resistance to retrain or reinforce the correct movement pattern. In other words, the true purpose of the back squat (for athletes) is to teach the body to utilize the correct muscles and move in the correct way to make athletic movements as efficient as possible.

When suffering, for example, an ankle injury, you walk with a limp. This is because the muscles required to perform the particularly movement patterns of walking are out of commission, thus, your body recruits the help of the "plan B" muscles to walk... This plan B muscles have limited mobility and load bearing potential and thus, shouldn't be relied upon for extended periods of time to perform a movement.

Resistance is deemed "too heavy" whenever it's too much resistance to perform the movement pattern correctly, forcing the body to rely on plan B muscles thus increasing the risk of injury, so... ANY exercise that has too much resistance is a bad idea.

During a knee injury, effective rehabilitation requires one (after swelling and pain has subsided) to re-strengthen and retrain the weakened muscles and tendons to perform the movement it struggles to perform by breaking down the movement pattern into parts and training each part, with progressively more resistance as strength returns. So, for example, single leg assisted balancing, moving onto single leg balancing, moving to single leg hops etc.

The leg extension movement is simply not part of the 7-movement patterns and adds a dangerous amount of stress to the knees. Think of using a long stick to wedge up something heavy. Where is the stick likely to crack? Right in the middle. It's the same for the leg extension, all the stress hits the knee.

The knee problems your mom had likely made it difficult for her to walk or run, so, it makes sense to break down the motion of walking and retrain each motion with resistance. I doubt your mom was complaining that, while watching T.V, she couldn't raise her feet off the ground for someone to vacuum under them.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 01:01:56 pm by Aristocrat »


  • kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 5138

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10003 on: July 02, 2019, 01:26:58 pm »
Kyndo, I think you're confusing the Leg-Extension machine with the Leg Press.
I get the difference more or less, but I couldn't find a funny picture that deals specifically with Leg extension gizmos. I figured, who'll notice and/or mention the difference, right?   I should've known better! :sad:
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 02:19:38 pm by kyndo »


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10004 on: July 02, 2019, 02:09:32 pm »

Isn't that only really a problem if people are lifting too heavy on the machine, though? They're meant for high rep, low weight.

My mom used it a lot as part of her rehabilitation to help strengthen the muscles around her knees. She was always instructed to use it one leg at a time, though, and not to use too much weight.

What do you mean by "too heavy"?

Pretty much as you said, using more weight than is appropriate or safe, usually for a number of reasons.

I've been told that the most common mistake that people make on the leg extension machine is using so much weight that the muscles around the knee aren't capable of lifting it without putting too much pressure and strain on the knee.

But apparently, there is a right way to use the machine, same as any other machine, and there are valid reasons for why people might opt for it. I haven't really given it much thought or research, though, because I don't use it myself (I'm a squatting monster), but I also I always thought it was funny how much shit this machine gets in general. I mean I assumed it must have its benefits if they were making my mom use it as part of her physical therapy (isolated motion, yadda yadda yadda), but even so, the hate is real.

Maybe it's best for people who need to do rehabilitative exercises and/or who aren't capable of doing things like squats, especially the elderly, but I've seen guys with incredible thighs use it to help shape their legs, too, so I don't know.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 02:23:45 pm by Chinguetti »


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10005 on: July 02, 2019, 02:30:55 pm »
Maybe it's best for people who need to do rehabilitative exercises and/or who aren't capable of doing things like squats, especially the elderly, but I've seen guys with incredible thighs use it to help shape their legs, too, so I don't know.

In my apartment gym yesterday, I went to use the leg extension machine and I usually have it at around 15 kgs, as I think more is not really that good for me, but the guy before me had it on 50kgs.  Surely, that can't be good like Aristocrat explained.  My sister told me I should concentrate more on IT band exercises and stretching which seem more useful and less punishing on the legs.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10006 on: July 02, 2019, 02:40:32 pm »
Maybe it's best for people who need to do rehabilitative exercises and/or who aren't capable of doing things like squats, especially the elderly, but I've seen guys with incredible thighs use it to help shape their legs, too, so I don't know.

In my apartment gym yesterday, I went to use the leg extension machine and I usually have it at around 15 kgs, as I think more is not really that good for me, but the guy before me had it on 50kgs.  Surely, that can't be good like Aristocrat explained.  My sister told me I should concentrate more on IT band exercises and stretching which seem more useful and less punishing on the legs.

Yeah, I guess a lot of the controversy surrounding the machine has a lot to do with its rampant misuse and the fact that they have other exercises that can workout the same muscles with less risk of injuring the knee, although there are lots of people who might find those other exercises too difficult and/or won't provide them with the resistance that they need. Whenever I see it getting used by one of the more buffed out guys who clearly don't have that problem, though, they always use it one leg at a time, like how my mom was instructed, and they're doing those really slow, light-weight reps on them (like the same as you, no more than 15kg, but I've seen it as low as 10kg). They're not even bringing it up all the way, either. Like maybe up to around 45 degrees? And moving it reeeaaally slow. I think it takes them fifteen seconds to move it one way or the other.

And then I'll watch another guy get on, set it to 60-100kg, and pump it like an action shotgun during a zombie apocalypse. Clearly not the right way to handle any machine, but there it is.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 03:00:37 pm by Chinguetti »


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1739

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10007 on: July 02, 2019, 05:49:28 pm »

Maybe it's best for people who need to do rehabilitative exercises and/or who aren't capable of doing things like squats, especially the elderly, but I've seen guys with incredible thighs use it to help shape their legs, too, so I don't know.

I'd argue that it's probably the worst machine to use for someone who already has sensitive knees.

A recovering knee is already going to have problems bearing your body weight, so body weight would be more than enough. Assisted balancing for progressively longer times, moving to increased difficulty and resistance would work perfectly fine. The leg extension offers resistance and like any resistance training, it certainly has the potential to offer muscle growth (for aesthetics and rehab) but the likelihood of injury is pretty high. I mean, you could certainly jog through traffic as part of a cardio routine and by some miracle you could come out  slimer, unscathed and with better reflexes, but why do it when there are more effective and safer alternatives?

Regarding the squat, it's a basic movement pattern, old or young can do it.

Aside from increasing muscle mass and correcting bio-mechanical issues... or making them, the squat is an EXCELLENT diagnostic tool. For example, back pain during a squat is either a result of improper form/too much weight or a bio-mechanical issue which limits the use of your cores effectiveness (weak core, excessive anterior pelvic tilt etc.) So, fix that and try it again. Hurts in your shoulders? Again, improper form or poor flexibility.
Age is not a determiner for squat competence, it's bio-mechanics.





  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4020

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10008 on: July 02, 2019, 07:48:32 pm »
That's exactly what they're doing, hiding from the world for an hour or two. As long as they're sitting on some stupid piece of machinery that nobody should be using, like the leg-extension machine, then they're doing the rest of the gym a favour.

What is with all the hate for leg extension machines, lol?

Itís my favorite!

(Mainly because I can leg press 2X the expected amount based on what I can do on the other machines.)


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10009 on: July 02, 2019, 10:46:39 pm »
I've had meniscus surgery in Korea and have to be careful about the leg exercises that I do at the gym.

What you guys are talking about is the leg press, not the leg extension. The leg extension is a different exercise which is very safe and generally recommended for rehabilitation. Google it.

The leg press is safe enough between 90-180 degrees, but at less than 90 degrees it puts a lot of pressure on your meniscus and probably other parts of the knee anatomy too. Squatting down below 90 degrees is similarly bad for people with weak knees.

My quads are unfortunately still pathetic 18 months after my surgery, no matter what I try. Any advice would be appreciated.


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1739

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10010 on: July 03, 2019, 07:47:37 am »
I've had meniscus surgery in Korea and have to be careful about the leg exercises that I do at the gym.

What you guys are talking about is the leg press, not the leg extension. The leg extension is a different exercise which is very safe and generally recommended for rehabilitation. Google it.

The leg press is safe enough between 90-180 degrees, but at less than 90 degrees it puts a lot of pressure on your meniscus and probably other parts of the knee anatomy too. Squatting down below 90 degrees is similarly bad for people with weak knees.

My quads are unfortunately still pathetic 18 months after my surgery, no matter what I try. Any advice would be appreciated.

I think you're the confused one. Aside the vast majority of articles claiming that the leg extension carries with it a significant degree of knee risk, Jeff Cavaliere from Athlean X (a guy whom I've never found to be wrong and pretty much the defacto standard in fitness on YT), mirrors all the concerns I've raised and warns against this silly contraption.

This is a leg press machine (completely safe as long as you don't lock your knees... i.e AT 180 DEGREES)


This is a leg extension machine


Squatting low should have ZERO impact on your knees if you're doing the exercise properly and are bio-mechanically balanced.
For quads, do high-bar back squats, sled sprints or front squats.

(Why the leg extension is a terrible exercise)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvLpDniGiDM


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10011 on: July 03, 2019, 08:35:12 am »
Is it illegal to walk in single file in Korea?  It must be.

I can't count the number of times I've had to step into the road to avoid shoulder barging someone coming the other way because for whatever reason they haven't moved out of the way on a narrow path.

It's usually couples walking side by side.  I don't know what the problem is.  It's like their whole world is going to end if they, for one second, have to let go of their bf/gf's hand and slip into single file while we pass each other.  Jesus, if you have to stop holding hands for a nano second on the street it doesn't mean you're going to break up!


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10012 on: July 03, 2019, 09:03:58 am »
Don't you love it when a flood of people come into the tiny office, the air conditioning gets turned off and the windows get opened.


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4573

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10013 on: July 03, 2019, 09:37:45 am »
Is it illegal to walk in single file in Korea?  It must be.

I can't count the number of times I've had to step into the road to avoid shoulder barging someone coming the other way because for whatever reason they haven't moved out of the way on a narrow path.

It's usually couples walking side by side.  I don't know what the problem is.  It's like their whole world is going to end if they, for one second, have to let go of their bf/gf's hand and slip into single file while we pass each other.  Jesus, if you have to stop holding hands for a nano second on the street it doesn't mean you're going to break up!

You've clearly never been in love. When you hold hands with that special someone the world melts away and you wouldn't care if they all perished in a fire.
The joys of fauxtherhood


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10014 on: July 03, 2019, 09:47:01 am »
Is it illegal to walk in single file in Korea?  It must be.

I can't count the number of times I've had to step into the road to avoid shoulder barging someone coming the other way because for whatever reason they haven't moved out of the way on a narrow path.

It's usually couples walking side by side.  I don't know what the problem is.  It's like their whole world is going to end if they, for one second, have to let go of their bf/gf's hand and slip into single file while we pass each other.  Jesus, if you have to stop holding hands for a nano second on the street it doesn't mean you're going to break up!

I'm looking forward to earphones and headphones hitting the Korean market in the next decade or so so I can enjoy a lovely walk in the park without listening to some ajumma blasting trot out of her SamsungBoomboX.
Who is here in 2019?


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 2158

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10015 on: July 03, 2019, 11:04:07 am »
Is it illegal to walk in single file in Korea?  It must be.

I can't count the number of times I've had to step into the road to avoid shoulder barging someone coming the other way because for whatever reason they haven't moved out of the way on a narrow path.

It's usually couples walking side by side.  I don't know what the problem is.  It's like their whole world is going to end if they, for one second, have to let go of their bf/gf's hand and slip into single file while we pass each other.  Jesus, if you have to stop holding hands for a nano second on the street it doesn't mean you're going to break up!

I'm looking forward to earphones and headphones hitting the Korean market in the next decade or so so I can enjoy a lovely walk in the park without listening to some ajumma blasting trot out of her SamsungBoomboX.
i can't get my head around this. hiking, riding a bike, in the park. i don't want to listen to your shitty music, especially out of shitty speakers. i mean, they don't do it on the subway, why do it in other public places?


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10016 on: July 03, 2019, 11:56:21 am »
especially out of shitty speakers

This is one of my pet peeves.  People who listen to music through tinny, treble heavy speakers, especially on loud volume.  Like in the gym, people listening to shit through their phones.  If it was more bassey, I'd probably be okay with it.  Where is the joy in that?  Granted, I like DnB and techno, where if you're not getting the bass then you're missing something major, like a leg.   Like, I went hiking last week, and along the top was some guy who was lying on a bench at the top taking a nap, with his phone on his stomach listening to tinny 'trot' on full volume, so much so it was distorting.   :rolleyes:


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10017 on: July 03, 2019, 02:15:55 pm »
Third post in this thread today but god did this wind me up when I saw it.



The arrogance of it.  If you don't know what's going on that's a player from good ol' team USA mocking England when she scored in the World Cup.

It comes not long after they beat Thailand 13-0 and were still celebrating every goal as if they'd won the world cup.  Absolutely no respect for their opponents. 

Disgusting behaviour all round really.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10018 on: July 03, 2019, 02:31:25 pm »
Third post in this thread today but god did this wind me up when I saw it.

The arrogance of it.  If you don't know what's going on that's a player from good ol' team USA mocking England when she scored in the World Cup.

It comes not long after they beat Thailand 13-0 and were still celebrating every goal as if they'd won the world cup.  Absolutely no respect for their opponents. 

Disgusting behaviour all round really.

not a soccer fan so im not sure what the big deal is. is it usually rude to celebrate a goal? this doesn't seem particularly offensive, but... i'm not super tuned in to soccer culture


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD 3.0
« Reply #10019 on: July 03, 2019, 02:37:15 pm »
It comes not long after they beat Thailand 13-0 and were still celebrating every goal as if they'd won the world cup.  Absolutely no respect for their opponents. 

Disgusting behaviour all round really.

The possible 'pretend tea drinking' celebration, is neither here nor there with me.  Whatever.  If England had won we could have celebrated by one player being a toilet, while another player sits on her, and then pretends to have a shitting related heart attack.

But celebrating every goal like it is a golden goal in the 13-0 win against Thailand is not on at all.  Utterly classless.  Anything after 5 or 6 and you just collect the ball, shake hands and then run back to your own half.  Charles Charlie Charles...