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  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2397

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #80 on: September 15, 2020, 09:41:02 am »
I drive fast on the highways. But I can stick to the 30 limit going through a school zone. The Korean drivers behind me hate that I drive safely at that speed. I also know when to adjust my speed depending on the road conditions. Koreans don’t seem to have that skill: just driving fast until they can’t keep driving fast.


Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #81 on: September 15, 2020, 10:55:20 am »
I've had one ticket with six years of driving experience here, and I've driven my two fastest cars at speeds that would make my mother cry. There's nothing wrong with driving above the speed limit, but you'd better pay attention to what you're doing.

What about the 6 year old that isn't paying attention while crossing the road and you hit them because you are speeding and unable to stop in time? Is saying I was speeding but paying attention a valid excuse for you when you kill a child?

So, sadly, I cannot agree with you saying there is nothing wrong with driving above the speed limit.  I guess if you have no respect for the law, it is okay though in your eyes but perhaps the parents of the dead child may disagree.

Speed limits are highly inflexible. They are based on fixed criteria and not the practical conditions of the road. They also don't take into account driver skill or the limitations of the vehicle.

If I'm on an expressway with light traffic on a warm and dry day, I might well cruise at 160kph. My car is designed to travel comfortably at high speed, and I have excellent eyesight and good reaction times. Now consider a boomer in a beater, driving on a much busier expressway in adverse conditions. The speed limit has to take things like that into account. There can't be separate limits set for individuals and their own particular circumstances because it would be logistically impossible and unenforceable, but there is a highly variable logical safe driving speed dependent on so many factors, and that makes any arbitrary speed limit irrational.

You keep talking about school zones. If I drive through a school zone at a time when kids might be running out, I'm constantly scanning for potential threats. I get the impression that a lot of people like you, who simply 'follow the rules', would just say "yep, I'm driving at 30, safe', while not actually properly keeping an eye out for kids running into the road. The competent young driver going 40, in a well-maintained car, paying paranoid attention, is less likely to have an accident than the boomer who rigidly follows the rules but doesn't think much beyond that.

You are right that I don't have 'respect' for the notion of the law being the law so we have to follow it blindly. If I did, I'd be supporting all kinds of horrific things that have gone on, and continue to this day, with the full support of their respective legal systems. I guess that's why China worked out so well for you; you didn't care about their appalling treatment of so many people because it was legal according to their laws. The world must be a much easier place if you can close your mind so much.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 10:57:11 am by StillInKorea »


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5501

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu Province, Taiwan
    more
Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #82 on: September 15, 2020, 11:11:50 am »
You are still using 'I am careful' to justify breaking the law. With regards to laws in a country like China which go against human rights, I would disobey anything in that vein. Speeding hardly falls into that category.

There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #83 on: September 15, 2020, 11:23:43 am »
Well, this guy drove 70km/hr in a 30 zone.  He also had numerous past convictions and was driving on a suspended license.  He also lied about his girlfriend driving.  He brought it on himself.  A lot of us do modest speeding.  But there are limits and safety zones that need to be respected. 


(Oh.  I just added this modification comment.  I originally thought it was 11.5 years and not 1.5 years.  Oops, my bad.  I guess it is a joke!  Ignore my above comments.)
I think it was worded poorly. I think he drove above 40km/hr, therfore anything above that threshold is recklessness, i.e. going 37km/hr. in a school zone would not be recklessness.

Or it might be as you said. The wording is bad so who knows? Maybe he was going 41 or 65 or 80 km/hr.


Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #84 on: September 15, 2020, 11:30:01 am »
Well it says in the article that he has past criminal histories
This also could be bad wording. They might be referring to past traffic offenses, which are not criminal behavior. Drunk driving is a misdemeanor, so that WOULD apply, but generally a single misdemeanor is not a pattern of criminal behavior.

Then again, he might have a record of repeated misdemeanors and/or felonies. The article is unclear here too.


Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #85 on: September 15, 2020, 11:32:53 am »
You are still using 'I am careful' to justify breaking the law. With regards to laws in a country like China which go against human rights, I would disobey anything in that vein. Speeding hardly falls into that category.

You can't say:

1. Nothing justifies breaking the law.
2. Laws that I believe are wrong don't need to be followed.

No excuses. The two statements are incompatible. You either believe the law has to be followed to the letter, or you don't.

So which is it?


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1339

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #86 on: September 15, 2020, 11:40:32 am »
Quote
Speed limits are highly inflexible. They are based on fixed criteria and not the practical conditions of the road. They also don't take into account driver skill or the limitations of the vehicle.
Speeding is a contributing factor in about 26% of all traffic fatalities (in the US). Speeding substantially increases not only the likelihood of an accident, but also its severity.

Quote
If I'm on an expressway with light traffic on a warm and dry day, I might well cruise at 160kph. My car is designed to travel comfortably at high speed, and I have excellent eyesight and good reaction times.
More than 90% of Americans when asked in a survey believed themselves to be above average drivers, and more than 75% believed themselves to be safer than average drivers. This phenomenon is called "Illusory Superiority".


Driving 160 km/h on roads designed for 100-110 km/h endangers not only yourself, but also others. Stop doing that.

Quote
You keep talking about school zones. If I drive through a school zone at a time when kids might be running out, I'm constantly scanning for potential threats. I get the impression that a lot of people like you, who simply 'follow the rules', would just say "yep, I'm driving at 30, safe', while not actually properly keeping an eye out for kids running into the road. The competent young driver going 40, in a well-maintained car, paying paranoid attention, is less likely to have an accident than the boomer who rigidly follows the rules but doesn't think much beyond that.
"At 40 km/h, the stopping distance for an average vehicle and a driver with average reaction times is at least 20 meters. At 55 km/h the stopping distance is at least 30 meters. Traveling at a normal speed instead of slowing down for the school zone therefore adds more than 10 meters to stopping distance." [source]
That might mean the difference between stopping for that elementary school child and leaving 10 meters of bloody skid marks. Five years ago, one of my g4 students was hit and killed by somebody speeding at a crosswalk who didn't stop in time. He undoubtedly though he was a vigilant driver with lightening quick reflexes too.

I'm sorry, but excessive speeding like what you're boasting of is objectively unnecessary, dangerous, and selfish.
It's like saying that it's ok for you not to wear a mask because you're better than average at suppressing sneezes, and are careful to distance yourself from all the folk milling around you.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 12:42:46 pm by Kyndo »


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2397

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #87 on: September 15, 2020, 11:57:29 am »
Don’t agree with the “excessive speeding” as being dangerous. (Edit: This goes for Highway driving)

The German autobahn has no speed limit in a lot of parts. If they considered it dangerous then it would have a maximum speed limit on all sections.

In my experience, Korean drivers should not speed because
a) they lack basic driving skills such as checking mirrors.
b) they seem to not understand the concept of stopping distances
c) they lack the positioning skills to overtake without being a dick.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 12:22:33 pm by Savant »


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1339

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #88 on: September 15, 2020, 12:42:14 pm »
Don’t agree with the “excessive speeding” as being dangerous. (Edit: This goes for Highway driving)

The German autobahn has no speed limit in a lot of parts. If they considered it dangerous then it would have a maximum speed limit on all sections.
Just to be clear, I'm fine with people driving at high speeds, but driving way over the posted limit is asking for trouble.
Driving really fast and excessive speeding are, like you mentioned, two completely different things.


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 707

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #89 on: September 15, 2020, 05:31:13 pm »
Don’t agree with the “excessive speeding” as being dangerous. (Edit: This goes for Highway driving)

The German autobahn has no speed limit in a lot of parts. If they considered it dangerous then it would have a maximum speed limit on all sections.

In my experience, Korean drivers should not speed because
a) they lack basic driving skills such as checking mirrors.
b) they seem to not understand the concept of stopping distances
c) they lack the positioning skills to overtake without being a dick.

This a common fallacy. The autobahn (I know because I recently traveled there) has times when they lift the speed limit.  There are lights that turn on or off depending on whether the speed limit is in effect.  They are usually on meaning the speed limit is in effect.


Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #90 on: September 15, 2020, 05:49:49 pm »
Speeding is a contributing factor in about 26% of all traffic fatalities (in the US). Speeding substantially increases not only the likelihood of an accident, but also its severity.
More than 90% of Americans when asked in a survey believed themselves to be above average drivers, and more than 75% believed themselves to be safer than average drivers. This phenomenon is called "Illusory Superiority".


Driving 160 km/h on roads designed for 100-110 km/h endangers not only yourself, but also others. Stop doing that.
"At 40 km/h, the stopping distance for an average vehicle and a driver with average reaction times is at least 20 meters. At 55 km/h the stopping distance is at least 30 meters. Traveling at a normal speed instead of slowing down for the school zone therefore adds more than 10 meters to stopping distance." [source]
That might mean the difference between stopping for that elementary school child and leaving 10 meters of bloody skid marks. Five years ago, one of my g4 students was hit and killed by somebody speeding at a crosswalk who didn't stop in time. He undoubtedly though he was a vigilant driver with lightening quick reflexes too.

I'm sorry, but excessive speeding like what you're boasting of is objectively unnecessary, dangerous, and selfish.
It's like saying that it's ok for you not to wear a mask because you're better than average at suppressing sneezes, and are careful to distance yourself from all the folk milling around you.


1. Speeding might be deemed a contributory factor in an accident simply because one driver was speeding, not because it was a major cause of the accident or even a cause at all. I'd also ask how many people on the road at any given time are driving over the speed limit. If a high proportion of people are speeding anyway, your statistic means very little.

2. I'm aware of the 'illusory superiority' argument because it's been posted here before. However, it's a fact that younger people tend to have better vision - especially peripheral vision - and faster reaction times.

3. Korean expressways are similar in quality to French motorways, which have a 130kph speed limit. They're much better than UK motorways, which have a 112kph speed limit.

4. I wouldn't drive through an area where children were likely to run out at 55kph.

5. Sorry to hear about your student being killed in an accident, but you have no idea what the driver was thinking. He obviously wasn't paying as much attention as he should have been if he was driving quickly. Nobody is saying it's fine to speed and not pay attention.

6. Covid-19 stays suspended in aerosols for hours, and those aerosols can be released by talking or even simply breathing. Not wearing a mask in a high-risk place would be much worse than speeding. You'd have to account for your environment hours into the future, instead of at a single point in time.


Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #91 on: September 15, 2020, 06:49:01 pm »
Autobahn believes in nothing when it comes to speed limits.


  • Lazio
  • Super Waygook

    • 404

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #92 on: September 15, 2020, 08:04:40 pm »
Speeding is a contributing factor in about 26% of all traffic fatalities (in the US). Speeding substantially increases not only the likelihood of an accident, but also its severity.
More than 90% of Americans when asked in a survey believed themselves to be above average drivers, and more than 75% believed themselves to be safer than average drivers. This phenomenon is called "Illusory Superiority".

So true.
I read an article about more than half (don't remember exactly, but a shockingly high percentage) of car seats being incorrectly installed.
I was like "what's so difficult about installing a car seat?" But then I realized that those over 50% didn't install their car seats on the wrong way intentionally. They most likely believe that their car seats are securely fixed as they are supposed to. And that may include me as well. Who knows...


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4552

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #93 on: September 16, 2020, 12:12:49 am »
So true.
I read an article about more than half (don't remember exactly, but a shockingly high percentage) of car seats being incorrectly installed.
I was like "what's so difficult about installing a car seat?" But then I realized that those over 50% didn't install their car seats on the wrong way intentionally. They most likely believe that their car seats are securely fixed as they are supposed to. And that may include me as well. Who knows...

In Canada, the local fire departments run “car seat clinics” where you can drive up and get yours checked.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2027

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Traffic fines
« Reply #94 on: September 16, 2020, 12:26:57 pm »
Speeding is a contributing factor in about 26% of all traffic fatalities (in the US). Speeding substantially increases not only the likelihood of an accident, but also its severity.
More than 90% of Americans when asked in a survey believed themselves to be above average drivers, and more than 75% believed themselves to be safer than average drivers. This phenomenon is called "Illusory Superiority".


Driving 160 km/h on roads designed for 100-110 km/h endangers not only yourself, but also others. Stop doing that.
"At 40 km/h, the stopping distance for an average vehicle and a driver with average reaction times is at least 20 meters. At 55 km/h the stopping distance is at least 30 meters. Traveling at a normal speed instead of slowing down for the school zone therefore adds more than 10 meters to stopping distance." [source]
That might mean the difference between stopping for that elementary school child and leaving 10 meters of bloody skid marks. Five years ago, one of my g4 students was hit and killed by somebody speeding at a crosswalk who didn't stop in time. He undoubtedly though he was a vigilant driver with lightening quick reflexes too.

I'm sorry, but excessive speeding like what you're boasting of is objectively unnecessary, dangerous, and selfish.
It's like saying that it's ok for you not to wear a mask because you're better than average at suppressing sneezes, and are careful to distance yourself from all the folk milling around you.


Driving 160 to 200 or whatever on a road designed for 100 to 110 certainty is dangerous and I have no problem with severe penalties for those.  Prison time for crashes etc.   I do admit to getting up to 130 and 140 occasionally but mostly keep it in the 110 to 120 range.  (Usually.)  Obiously lower under the speed limit in really bad driving conditions (bad weather, etc).