Teaching EFL in China: Pros and Cons

Places that sell TESOL courses write on their website: “Demand for English teachers like you is expected to grow in the coming years.” ...but keep in mind this statement is not coming from an unbiased source. Actually the opposite is true. The English teaching jobs are increasingly going to the bilingual locals. And ever improving technology like translation apps and learning material online is changing the market.

Realistically, do you you really think NETs are going to be able to form a union like Korean bus drivers? Newsflash, they're Korean, we're not. They were born here, we weren't. They can vote, we can't.
They're staying here, we aren't. Disagree? Prove me wrong and put your money were your mouth is; start a union.

Not to get sidetracked from discussing the pros and cons of teaching in China, but I'm fairly certain that agitating for unionization is against the terms of our visas. Immigration can legally deport us for any kind of political activism (which unionization clearly is).
   Heck, those POE organized trips to Dokdo with the photo-op with all the smiling happy NETs and a big "Dokdo is Korean Territory" banner? Technically Immigration could deport us for that.

Places that sell TESOL courses write on their website: “Demand for English teachers like you is expected to grow in the coming years.” ...but keep in mind this statement is not coming from an unbiased source. Actually the opposite is true. The English teaching jobs are increasingly going to the bilingual locals. And ever improving technology like translation apps and learning material online is changing the market.

Thank you for pointing this out. I'm sure nobody would have noticed that without your help.

I didn’t realize that and was deceived by that myself when searching info about getting a CELTA. Paid thousands plus one month’s lost wages (meaning thousands more). Thought the CELTA would be a good investment for my future. Was it? Didn’t open any doors as far as I can tell. Learned a bit about teaching ideas though, so that’s good.

I didn’t realize that and was deceived by that myself when searching info about getting a CELTA. Paid thousands plus one month’s lost wages (meaning thousands more). Thought the CELTA would be a good investment for my future. Was it? Didn’t open any doors as far as I can tell. Learned a bit about teaching ideas though, so that’s good.

Unlucky. I reckon my CELTA,'s repaid itself around 100 times over.

You got your CELTA decades ago. Things were different then. A CELTA can still be beneficial, just not as much as before. The cost to benefit ratio has changed. Same with the DELTA. Same with the MATESOL. The more people that get them, the less valuable they become.

When did you get yours? I thought it was also ages ago

I tell you what though, most kids wanting to do TEFL now wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes back in the pre-internet days. We deserved our comparatively higher salaries (I'm not a boomer by the way)

I got my CELTA in 2011, less than ten years ago. You? And to say you’re not a boomer, true, but one more year older and you would be. 55 means you just missed the cutoff. So yeah, you’re not that old, but considerably older than most of us, myself included. I’m just saying the industry has changed. The reason I know this is from talking with many older folk who have been in this field for a long time.

Thailand used to pay great wages 30 years ago. Huge savings potential. Now, no more.

The number of countries paying good wages to English teachers is becoming less and less. Out of 200 ... just Korea and China?

The Middle East maybe but it’s requiring higher and higher qualifications while paying less and less.

Less of a good deal than before.

Not true. 15 years ago to get a public school job just send a photocopy of your diploma and you’d be hired. No interview needed. No letters of recommendation needed. No long application form needed.

Also, university jobs were easy to get 15 years ago. With just an unrelated BA and a year or two of public school or kiddie hagwon experience you could get in. Now, damn near impossible, even with a related MA.

A "long application form", letter of recommendation or an interview are not a qualifications. The hiring process has become more regulated, the qualifications required to get the job are still the same.

University jobs are a different beast.

Not true. 15 years ago to get a public school job just send a photocopy of your diploma and you’d be hired. No interview needed. No letters of recommendation needed. No long application form needed.

A photocopy of a notarized diploma.  That's hardly the same thing you're implying.  To get my first public school job I also submitted a photocopy.  The photocopy came from immigration and it was a copy of the diploma that was certified by the Korean Consulate back home.  No one was getting an E2 without the proper accredited documentation.  That had to be done first so implying that 15 years ago people could just waltz in on a tourist visa and show a school a photocopy of a diploma and get a job is horsesh*t.  My first foray in Korea was 24 years ago and I had to take my diploma to the consulate to be certified back then to be eligible for an E2.  Changing jobs on an existing E2 has always required less work. 

I know a Canadian who (roughly 15 years ago) got a public school job in Korea from a fake diploma bought in Thailand. Who notarized / approved it? The Canadian consulate in Thailand?

I’m just repeating what some old timers told me about not needing an interview or letters of recommendation or application form to get the job, just a photocopy of the diploma.

“But the diploma copy had to be notarized just like now!”

Um, ok. But can you see how things have changed?

More hoops to jump through compared to before.

 

Changing jobs on an existing E2 has always required less work. 

What happens if you leave Korea and want to come back in on a new E2? I'm in South Africa now, doing my PGCE as planned, but will probably try weasel my way back in at some point. Do I have to get my degree notarized again?

A photocopy of a notarized diploma.  That's hardly the same thing you're implying.  To get my first public school job I also submitted a photocopy.  The photocopy came from immigration and it was a copy of the diploma that was certified by the Korean Consulate back home.  No one was getting an E2 without the proper accredited documentation.  That had to be done first so implying that 15 years ago people could just waltz in on a tourist visa and show a school a photocopy of a diploma and get a job is horsesh*t.  My first foray in Korea was 24 years ago and I had to take my diploma to the consulate to be certified back then to be eligible for an E2.  Changing jobs on an existing E2 has always required less work. 

Boy, 15 years back, apply to a recruiter, they call you back offer you a hakwon in a big city or a public school in the boonies.  No EPIK interview.  I did have to go down to the local police station and get a criminal check.  I picked it up two days later.  I brought the unopened envelope with me to Korea and gave it to the Provincial Office of Education.  Even though I signed a contract and Fed exed it to Korea along with a copy of my university transcripts, I signed another contract once I got there.  Anyhow, I was arriving in Korea in the middle of the semester about 3 and a half weeks after I applied.  None of that apostile crap, no interviews, no references on official letterhead.  I did interview for 5 minutes with a hakwon owner before taking the public shcool job.  It was a 5 minute interview where I was asked about whether I knew or not that Korea had 4 seasons and if I had ever tried kimchi and if I knew any Korean?  Then, I was offered the job presto chango.  I took the rural public school though I came to regret.  However, given how much of the Korean market has turned to crap, I am glad I took it and stayed for the eventual higher salary. 

Yep, it was so easy.  No hoops to jump through.  However, the POE told me I had to by the end of 2012 submit all this apostiled crap since they didn't have anything on record.  Had to be done by the end of the year or I was out of a job.  Asking my sister and grandma to do some running around for me was a pain.  Plus I had to give my credit card number to the university to remail the degree and transcripts.  Then, grannie had to take it to a lawyers office to sign off on it (since Canada doesn't do this apostle seal or whatever it is).  Then she had to send it to the Korean consulate in Montreal by xpress post  and with money order and return envelope.  I think criminal check also had to be mailed to them as well once my sister or grandma got it.  I had to ask for one online and give my cc number.  Then it was all packed into an envelope once they got it all back from the consulate.  Then it was Fed exed to me over here.  I had to give it to the POE after I had been here a few years or more.  Kind of a pain to co ordinate from here.  They should have reimbursed me for the few hundred dollars it cost me.  Of course they didn't.  But, I had just gotten my final pay raise and it was good money then.  So, I didn't pursue it.  I did tell the POE supervisor we should get some compensation though.  But, as I said, I didn't push it anymore. 

Lots of countries have the hoops now.  Unfortunately.  Just make sure you get a good pay to living cost ratio and / or savings potential.  Otherwise, you look at the next country and say "next".  Get yourself a good 120 hour in class TESOL from a reputable place along with a couple of years experience.  Learn from your Korean co teachers what kind of esl games they play.  Some do this and some don't.  While I mostly use ppt stuff.  I still try to play some non tech games from time to time and to learn about them.  I may need them  more if I jump ship. 

Even though there was a lot more xenophobia and c()ck blocking from the locals back in the day if you tried to date a Korean woman and lots of fake news stories about English teachers having AIDS and fake diploma, it was still some of the best of times.  I wouldn't trade that for all the gold stolen by the Spanish from a Peruvian mine.  Best of times and the worst of times, was the golden age of ESL.  I am saddened I only got here at the end of it.  I would have loved the 90's and rest of 2000's decade.  (I'd have been a lot richer today with savings I suppose?  If I didn't blow it all on booze and bad women.  Ha ha.)  Though I add I was too young to be in the 90's.  (Still wish I could have though.) 

I know a Canadian who (roughly 15 years ago) got a public school job in Korea from a fake diploma bought in Thailand. Who notarized / approved it? The Canadian consulate in Thailand?

Probably.  It was around 2005/2006 when a bunch of Canadians were busted for having come in with fake diplomas.  There was this process where all E2s had to go to their nearest immigration offices with their actual diplomas and have them physically checked.  It was a bit of a joke.  I think they were hoping anyone with a fake would break down and admit their guilt.  There were two guys in the room and one of them actually had a loupe and scrutinized the document carefully as if he could tell.  The other guy just glanced and handed them back.  Luck of the draw which forgery expert you got.  It was just after this that sealed transcripts were required.

What happens if you leave Korea and want to come back in on a new E2? I'm in South Africa now, doing my PGCE as planned, but will probably try weasel my way back in at some point. Do I have to get my degree notarized again?

I know I've had to in the past, but to tell the truth I can't recall how I did it ten years when I came back for my current stretch.  I came in on a tourist visa and did the visa run to Fukuoka so I guess I did it all at the consulate there. 

Probably.  It was around 2005/2006 when a bunch of Canadians were busted for having come in with fake diplomas.  There was this process where all E2s had to go to their nearest immigration offices with their actual diplomas and have them physically checked.  It was a bit of a joke.  I think they were hoping anyone with a fake would break down and admit their guilt.  There were two guys in the room and one of them actually had a loupe and scrutinized the document carefully as if he could tell.  The other guy just glanced and handed them back.  Luck of the draw which forgery expert you got.  It was just after this that sealed transcripts were required.

A shame I just got here after this.  I do remember reading about folks being held in deportation jails.  My grandma actually used this story as an excuse to try and talk me out of coming here.  But I told her it was illegal teachers.