Something I've always wondered about though; why do others care if people smoke or not?[...]I agree smoking is gross, but I would never act the way some people do around smokers or treat someone with contempt because they do.
Cigarette smoke really does bother me. It smells terrible. Walking behind some douche who is smoking and leaving a trail of smoke behind them, sucks. A static smoker doesn't bother me as much, but it still smells like shit. Its an imposition on others around you. Just as much as some cretin who doesn't wash or use deodorant and stinks of BO.What if I walked around with a spray can spraying out some awful toxic smell to people around me in public. I'd be viewed as an asshole. If you want to smoke, fine. But do it in private.
Because it's more than just gross, it's a health hazard. And if you (not "you" specifically, just "you" as in smokers in general) want to subject yourself to the risks that smoking exposes you to, fine, but others shouldn't have to deal with that, too.
Quote from: zola on November 28, 2018, 09:51:56 amCigarette smoke really does bother me. It smells terrible. Walking behind some douche who is smoking and leaving a trail of smoke behind them, sucks. A static smoker doesn't bother me as much, but it still smells like shit. Its an imposition on others around you. Just as much as some cretin who doesn't wash or use deodorant and stinks of BO.What if I walked around with a spray can spraying out some awful toxic smell to people around me in public. I'd be viewed as an asshole. If you want to smoke, fine. But do it in private.First- I agree that smoking stinks and I don't smoke indoors because of it. Second- Between the dust in the air and the sewer stink, smoke is whatever.Quote from: Chinguetti on November 28, 2018, 10:02:57 amBecause it's more than just gross, it's a health hazard. And if you (not "you" specifically, just "you" as in smokers in general) want to subject yourself to the risks that smoking exposes you to, fine, but others shouldn't have to deal with that, too. Given all the crap we're exposed to, passing by someone's secondhand smoke on the sidewalk is diddly-poo in terms of health risks. Most of those secondhand smoke studies are cooked up to. The ones that show a real risk are like, kids who are exposed to two chain smoking parents who smoke indoors and have poor ventilation. I mean there's probably as much crap put out by our smartphones and all the electronics we roll with. It's selective outrage based on personal disgust. Now, that's fine for rolling your eyes or even banning it in YOUR place of business or even public buildings. But it's no justification for banning it in bars, late night restaurants, clubs, casinos, VFW Halls, and other places where no one who is there gives a crap about being healthy.
Second hand smoke is breathing toxic cigarette fumes, but without a filter. So unhealthy. Pedestrians' lungs and immune systems are already weakened and taking a beating from air pollution, so they'd be smart to completely avoid any exposure to second or third hand smoke.
Given all the crap we're exposed to, passing by someone's secondhand smoke on the sidewalk is diddly-poo in terms of health risks. Most of those secondhand smoke studies are cooked up to. The ones that show a real risk are like, kids who are exposed to two chain smoking parents who smoke indoors and have poor ventilation. I mean there's probably as much crap put out by our smartphones and all the electronics we roll with. It's selective outrage based on personal disgust. Now, that's fine for rolling your eyes or even banning it in YOUR place of business or even public buildings. But it's no justification for banning it in bars, late night restaurants, clubs, casinos, VFW Halls, and other places where no one who is there gives a crap about being healthy.
Quote from: zola on November 28, 2018, 09:51:56 amCigarette smoke really does bother me. It smells terrible. Walking behind some douche who is smoking and leaving a trail of smoke behind them, sucks. A static smoker doesn't bother me as much, but it still smells like shit. Its an imposition on others around you. Just as much as some cretin who doesn't wash or use deodorant and stinks of BO.What if I walked around with a spray can spraying out some awful toxic smell to people around me in public. I'd be viewed as an asshole. If you want to smoke, fine. But do it in private.First- I agree that smoking stinks and I don't smoke indoors because of it. Second- Between the dust in the air and the sewer stink, smoke is whatever.Quote from: Chinguetti on November 28, 2018, 10:02:57 amBecause it's more than just gross, it's a health hazard. And if you (not "you" specifically, just "you" as in smokers in general) want to subject yourself to the risks that smoking exposes you to, fine, but others shouldn't have to deal with that, too. Given all the crap we're exposed to, passing by someone's secondhand smoke on the sidewalk is diddly-poo in terms of health risks. Most of those secondhand smoke studies are cooked up to. The ones that show a real risk are like, kids who are exposed to two chain smoking parents who smoke indoors and have poor ventilation.
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on November 28, 2018, 11:03:21 amGiven all the crap we're exposed to, passing by someone's secondhand smoke on the sidewalk is diddly-poo in terms of health risks. Most of those secondhand smoke studies are cooked up to. The ones that show a real risk are like, kids who are exposed to two chain smoking parents who smoke indoors and have poor ventilation. I mean there's probably as much crap put out by our smartphones and all the electronics we roll with. It's selective outrage based on personal disgust. Now, that's fine for rolling your eyes or even banning it in YOUR place of business or even public buildings. But it's no justification for banning it in bars, late night restaurants, clubs, casinos, VFW Halls, and other places where no one who is there gives a crap about being healthy.It actually makes a huge difference. Plus, one is far more individually controllable. Just because the air is polluted doesn't mean you're allowed to be a dick to everyone else and start blowing smoke in their faces. And whatever radiation that electronics give off is nowhere near as problematic and fatal as cigarette smoke. Not even close. People are just looking for excuses to get away with being able to do their dirty habit anywhere they want, regardless of how others personally feel about it, and they might have a case if it didn't affect others in any way... but it does. I'm not saying you're not allowed to smoke. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be allowed to force everyone else to smoke with you. The dangers of secondhand smoke is very well documented and studied, and it's actually more toxic than firsthand smoke. It's not a myth. A lot of people don't know this, but there are more women in Korea getting lung cancer than men, even though the majority of them don't smoke. The reason? Because they're around chain-smoking husbands. And while it's true that the people who are most affected by smokers are those who live with those smokers, that doesn't give smokers the right to expose anyone else to it. Saying otherwise is like saying it's okay for someone go around punching random folks in the faces because he beats the shit out of his family and they get the brunt of it. It doesn't matter if exposure to something is small or large -- if it's toxic, people have the right to avoid as much exposure to it as possible. If you want to smoke, do it away from everyone else. No one else should have to avoid going out to places just because of someone else's dirty habit. Air pollution is another problem that needs to be tackled. It's not something that excuses smoking or nullifies its negative contribution to poor health. Inconsiderate public smoking has been and continues to be a problem in areas that has very low and negligible amounts of air pollution. Again, one doesn't make the other okay.Also, the banning of smoking from places like restaurants was for concerns over workers' personal health. This came about when cancer due to secondhand smoke was correlated. Lots of waitresses and such developed lung and throat cancer despite never having smoked themselves.
It actually makes a huge difference. I'm not saying you're not allowed to smoke. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be allowed to force everyone else to smoke with you. The dangers of secondhand smoke is very well documented and studied, and it's actually more toxic than firsthand smoke. It's not a myth.
People are just looking for excuses to get away with being able to do their dirty habit anywhere they want, regardless of how others personally feel about it, and they might have a case if it didn't affect others in any way... but it does.
that doesn't give smokers the right to expose anyone else to it. Otherwise, you're pretty much saying it's okay for a person to go around punching random folks in the faces because (s)he beats the shit out of his/her family, and they get the brunt of that person's violence.
if it's harmful in any way, people have the right to avoid as much exposure to it as possible.
No one else should have to avoid going out to places just because of someone else's dirty habit.
. Inconsiderate public smoking has been and continues to be a problem in areas that has very low and negligible amounts of air pollution.
Also, the banning of smoking from places like restaurants was for concerns over workers' personal health.
Don't worry guys! Secondhand smoke is weakened when you live in Korea!
Quote from: Chinguetti on November 28, 2018, 12:10:27 pmA lot of people don't know this, but there are more women in Korea getting lung cancer than men, even though the majority of them don't smoke. The reason? Because they're around chain-smoking husbands. Source?https://www.e-crt.org/journal/view.php?doi=10.4143/crt.2018.143 would drastically differ to your opinionNew cases Total, 24,267 Men, 17,015 Women, 7,252 Deaths, Total, 17,399 Men, 12,677 Women, 4,722 Prevalent cases Total, 69,931 Men, 43,987 Women, 25,944
A lot of people don't know this, but there are more women in Korea getting lung cancer than men, even though the majority of them don't smoke. The reason? Because they're around chain-smoking husbands.
We're talking people living indoors with other smokers, continuously exposed over years. Not you walking along the street and a puff of smoke blows by you.
No, it doesn't. Not when it comes to someone smoking on the side of the street and you getting the occasional whiff of it. Not to any degree that it overrides all the other pollutants and toxins one is exposed to.
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that the danger of second hand smoke exposure by someone on the sidewalk is so negligible relative to exposure to other risk factors as to be insignificant. And like I said, I agree with banning it in public buildings or at bus stops or within 10 meters of a subway entrance, etc.
Care to put that principle into legal practice? What it would turn into is pretty much everything being banned. I'm sure there's something that you're doing that someone could claim harms them because of exposure and demands that it be banned.
No one forces you to go to a club with a cover charge or some bar at 11PM or a casino. VFW halls are exclusive to veterans and the government has even banned smoking there. Guys who fought in WWII or Vietnam and lost a leg and are in their final years can't even smoke and play cards with their buddies because some virtue-signaller who has never met them and would never set foot inside their club thinks they know better than them.
Seriously, the level of arrogance and condescension to ban smoking in VFW and American Legion halls is ridiculous.
I'm potentially exposed to pathogens because someone's dumb dog decides to crap in public and no one wants to ban that. Maybe we should under this logic. Who cares that the risk is negligible? I have the right to not be exposed!
Give me a break. Those workers are often smokers themselves. They smoke because they have to deal with asshole customers who are usually they types that enjoy telling people what to do and bossing them around and being hyper picky because their vegan crap wasn't prepared using fair-trade organic whatever and was slightly overcooked.
They didn't do it out of concern. They used them as a tool to push forward their own agenda. Did anyone bother checking with these workers before they started arguing on their behalf? Just a bunch of white-knighting.
The damage might be minimal, but there's still damage, and it's accountable. If one person can do it, then everyone can. That adds up when you're constantly passing people doing the same thing.
I didn't say it overrode any other toxins, only that other toxins don't suddenly negate it and make it okay, and people have the right to control that much at least.
Outside of that, it's just ****** rude to expose people to toxins when it's well within your control to not do so.
Except this is backed by science and fact. It isn't subjective
So you're telling me that people can't enjoy themselves and do all of those things without smoking? And what about the many people who go to every single one of those places who don't smoke? And the people who work there?
It's like you can swing your arms around as much as you want, but your right to swing your fists around ends at the tip of another man's nose
For the majority, it's about having control over what goes into their own bodies.
I don't want it in my lungs if I don't have to have it there.
It's not practical to ban animal defecation. It can't be done. But people can clean up after their pets and properly dispose of their waste.
Again, this is about lines and what is pragmatic.
1) Most of them aren't smokers.2) The ones who are have to follow the same rules as everyone else.3) Non-smokers have the right to protect their healths.
4) People's personal health > People's personal habits. If one directly affects the other, than all other points are moot.
Martin, stop derailing this thread with your incessant need to argue.
Quote from: elsbethm on November 28, 2018, 01:40:17 pmMartin, stop derailing this thread with your incessant need to argue.It really wasn't his or Chingurtti's fault. It was mine. I asked a heated question. I take full responsibility for this mess....
Quote from: SeoulAlone on November 28, 2018, 01:44:28 pmQuote from: elsbethm on November 28, 2018, 01:40:17 pmMartin, stop derailing this thread with your incessant need to argue.It really wasn't his or Chingurtti's fault. It was mine. I asked a heated question. I take full responsibility for this mess....It wasn't your fault. I didn't have an issue with what you said. But if someone can give their strong opinion, I can give mine. You're good, woman.