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  • Mister Tim
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1806

    • September 08, 2013, 10:33:54 am
    • SK
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #500 on: October 13, 2015, 10:26:20 am »

Buddy, if you think a party is the same as class, then you are either completely delirious or way too confident in your ability as a teacher. But from your response, I gather that you'd like it if you went to work while all the teachers are teaching, and they ask you to do the most mundane tests. Then when you finish, they give you a pat on the head, a belly rub, and tell you what a good boy you are.  Skill level proficiency is not equivalent to maturity. I also wouldn't ask a group of corporate adult EFL students to sing the god damn ABCs. Your intentions are that of goofy doesn't mean it was interpreted that way. .

I also wonder whether or not the group just stayed quiet the ENTIRE class, or they answered other questions.

edit: if I had the question in school, I'd say it, not sing it. If it wouldn't get me in trouble, I would tell my teacher how stupid does he think I am that I don't know my damn abcs at 14, which would then land me in detention so I wouldn't say that (out loud).



Yes, wanting to add some levity to English class definitely means that I want nothing more than to do mundane tasks and receive attaboys for them. Astute observation, RichardTang.

If you see someone in a thread with the express purpose of venting making a silly post about students not wanting or being able to sing their ABCs as part of a game, and your reaction is "I need to tell this person how wrong they are and that their teaching ideas are not good," then I'm doubly sure you'd be as welcome at a party as a fart in an elevator.

I am obviously aware that classes are not parties. I hope that you don't think trying to lighten the mood with a little goofiness in class doesn't mean I'm trying to throw parties every day, but I must confess I have a very weak grasp on how your mind works. We all have different teaching techniques, though, so that's fine.

I would ask a group of adults in an EFL class to sing the ABCs. I have asked a group of adults in an EFL class to sing the ABCs. Guess what? They did it! Does that baffle you? I did it for the same reason in that class, too: Because it was a silly thing to make them do. Sure, some were embarrassed, but it was generally received with giggling and smiling, because they knew as well as I did that it was a ridiculous task.

I like it when my students are happy. It's a tactic that usually works. I'm glad you can conduct successful lessons without trying to have fun with your students (regardless of age), but that's not how I do things. At my current school, the Korean teachers teach all the textbook classes, and the instructions upon my arrival at this school were "Teach whatever you want. Try to have fun." Sounds good to me, and I try to do that by being goofy fro time to time. If you think the students don't pick up on that or that they're unable to interpret my intentions, you don't give your students enough credit.

And no, the group didn't stay quiet the entire class. They answered the questions they were presented with just fine. Like I said, they weren't even all unwilling to sing them. My venting was more about how the student who was willing to sing didn't know the alphabet. I'm not really disappointed that every student didn't gladly perk up and sing the song like a bunch of kindergarteners, but I am a bit disappointed when middle school third graders don't know their ABCs.

I don't know why you chose to pick on the bit about students not singing rather than students not knowing their alphabet, but oh well. What's done is done, what was is said. I still think it's absolutely fine to have included that as one of the challenges in the game. It's fine that you wouldn't have, but I must admit to having been a little miffed at the assertion that my teaching ideas are bad. Different from yours, perhaps, and that's okay. Well, to me it is.

I hope I kept that civil enough, mods. You should've seen my original reply. It was pretty... erm... yucky. I cut a bit out to make it less hostile, since I'm really not trying to be. Pinky swear.  8)



Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #501 on: October 13, 2015, 10:39:34 am »
If you don't want to hear another point of view that doesn't involve a group of "yes men", then you are not going to be happy with the internet in general.

You still clearly don't see that the students are able to answer what I consider more advance questions, but didn't want to sing the ABCs as the a form of "mundane task".  What you consider "levity" was clearly "degradation" in the eyes of *some* your students. Adult "humor" doesn't always translate well to teenagers.

You must clearly think that all students are alike. I have students who can't mutter more than a whisper in front of class. I would not have them sing the ABCs or even SAY them. I would give them work they can do in silence, then when I walk around I check it. By this time of the year (mid 2nd semester), I would have figured out which students don't know the ABCs, and would introduce exercises to the entire class that would help them learn it.  I've clearly seen my middle school students too mature to sing the ABCs before which is why I am able to offer this insight. Don't like people criticizing you? Best to keep your opinions to yourself and stay off the internet then.

You clearly are OK with silly things. Guess what? Some people aren't. Some people are more aware of what people think of them than others.  I certainly wouldn't be the top student in the class, having spent hours studying, and a ton of my parent's money on hagwons, just to sing the Alphabet to the class.

No one likes to hear/read criticism, and even less are willing to actually ponder for a moment whether or not the criticism makes sense so they can better themselves from it. If the day I actually post about my classroom woes (which will be never), feel free to criticize all you want as well.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 10:47:52 am by richardtang1991 »
Open your mind.


  • Imogen1991
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1109

    • March 18, 2015, 12:26:47 am
    • Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #502 on: October 13, 2015, 10:54:28 am »
YAY ARGUING ON THE INTERNET

Let's not get this thread locked hey?


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #503 on: October 13, 2015, 10:56:34 am »
YAY ARGUING ON THE INTERNET

Let's not get this thread locked hey?

It's been my plan since it's conception.

...i've been failing hard.
Open your mind.


  • Mister Tim
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1806

    • September 08, 2013, 10:33:54 am
    • SK
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #504 on: October 13, 2015, 11:37:59 am »
You must clearly think that all students are alike.

Yes, I clearly don't understand that all students aren't the same. I obviously expected every single student to sing. Let's forget for a moment that I have explicitly stated in my replies here that I did not expect them all to do it, just that I think it's reasonable to expect at least one of them to do it. You are correct, the obvious conclusion is that I think all students are exactly the same.

You clearly are OK with silly things. Guess what? Some people aren't. Some people are more aware of what people think of them than others.   

You don't say? As should be abundantly clear by now, I didn't expect them all to be. Teaching 101 is that all students are different. You are not making any stunning revelations here. Some students like some activities, some don't. I also heard that things fall because of gravity and grass is green.

Don't like people criticizing you? Best to keep your opinions to yourself and stay off the internet then.

No one likes to hear/read criticism, and even less are willing to actually ponder for a moment whether or not the criticism makes sense so they can better themselves from it. If the day I actually post about my classroom woes (which will be never), feel free to criticize all you want as well.

Of course I don't like criticism, when it's wrong. Trust me, if I thought you were right here, I'd concede. Heck, if you hadn't been such a condescending jackanape in your first reply, I might not have even said anything at all. But instead of being a sensible person and presenting your idea like "It's possible the students were all too embarrassed, which can be a problem with students of that age," you had to tell me how "baffled" you were, and how you "can't believe I thought it was a good idea."

There's constructive criticism, and there's just being a tactless stick in the mud. You were definitely the latter. Not that that surprised me at all, given your other posts around this site, but I'm absolutely going to respond in kind when you throw that kind of nonsense my way.

Anyway, I think it's run its course, unless you've got something else to add.

Have a nice lunch.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 11:40:35 am by Mister Tim »


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 2283

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #505 on: October 13, 2015, 12:02:25 pm »
Back to ranting:

How many times this year are you going to tell me to teach YET ANOTHER open class? It's a waste of everyone's time, it isn't a real sample of what a normal class is like, the schedule is all f*cked up because you're teaching a random lesson the kids have never seen before, and I personally hate it. I have three coming up. I already did five last semester. Next time I swear to god I will just straight up refuse.
The principal and vice-principal randomly stop by and sit in on classes. Keeps the teachers on their toes, and makes me look good. I actually enjoy it because it makes all the students nervous and they tend to pretend to be something other than the hideous social monstrosities they actually are. Disclaimer: 유리, I love my students. Even the truly evil ones. Please don't get me fired...
Anyway, it makes the official open lessons much less stressful, as it really is only a formality.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #506 on: October 13, 2015, 12:03:51 pm »
Back to ranting:

How many times this year are you going to tell me to teach YET ANOTHER open class? It's a waste of everyone's time, it isn't a real sample of what a normal class is like, the schedule is all f*cked up because you're teaching a random lesson the kids have never seen before, and I personally hate it. I have three coming up. I already did five last semester. Next time I swear to god I will just straight up refuse.
The principal and vice-principal randomly stop by and sit in on classes. Keeps the teachers on their toes, and makes me look good. I actually enjoy it because it makes all the students nervous and they tend to pretend to be something other than the hideous social monstrosities they actually are. Disclaimer: 유리, I love my students. Even the truly evil ones. Please don't get me fired...
Anyway, it makes the official open lessons much less stressful, as it really is only a formality.

This is my second contract and this time around I have not had any open classes. Is this normal?


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #507 on: October 13, 2015, 12:20:06 pm »
Really would love a week teaching at either of my two schools that didn't have a schedule change, or a schedule change that worked in my FAVOR. I am tired of my co-teachers fighting about who gets to co-teach with me when...or having half the class gone doing some sort of cultural project, or loosing half my lunch break because of my mandatory drama class I have to oversee this year. 135 days....


  • z80
  • Expert Waygook

    • 661

    • August 24, 2014, 07:34:50 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #508 on: October 13, 2015, 12:30:22 pm »
I've refused to do open classes before based on the fact that the open class is different to what we normally teach, and thus a lie. In my contract it has a bit about not being dishonest or some crap like that.

They don't even ask me anymore.


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #509 on: October 13, 2015, 12:31:22 pm »
Quote
Really would love a week teaching at either of my two schools that didn't have a schedule change, or a schedule change that worked in my FAVOR. I am tired of my co-teachers fighting about who gets to co-teach with me when...or having half the class gone doing some sort of cultural project, or loosing half my lunch break because of my mandatory drama class I have to oversee this year. 135 days....


  • Mister Tim
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1806

    • September 08, 2013, 10:33:54 am
    • SK
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #510 on: October 13, 2015, 12:36:41 pm »
Really would love a week teaching at either of my two schools that didn't have a schedule change, or a schedule change that worked in my FAVOR. I am tired of my co-teachers fighting about who gets to co-teach with me when...or having half the class gone doing some sort of cultural project, or loosing half my lunch break because of my mandatory drama class I have to oversee this year. 135 days....

I got super sick of that at one point a couple years ago, so I kept track for a month: just over 50% of my classes that month were either cancelled, rescheduled, or delayed for one reason or another.

It did make me wonder, though. How common is that sort of thing in other countries? Korea is my first teaching gig, so I can't really say that it's more or less common here than back home. I don't remember classes being moved around all willy nilly when I was a kid, but that's honestly not something I'm likely to have paid much attention to :laugh:.

I will say that at my current school, on my first day of work they handed me a printout with all the days when classes would be cancelled for the entire semester highlighted, and reasons for the cancellations provided. There will still be surprises from time to time, but it sure was friggin' awesome being kept in the loop like that. They run a really tight ship at this school, and that's peachy keen in my book. I sure hope they don't move me to another school again at the end of the semester...

*knock on every piece of wood in a 10km radius*


  • z80
  • Expert Waygook

    • 661

    • August 24, 2014, 07:34:50 pm
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #511 on: October 13, 2015, 12:42:49 pm »
In my home country my teaching scheduled was changed on average 2 time per year. Usually it was because of another teaching being sick or injured.


  • popeye2u
  • Expert Waygook

    • 875

    • April 05, 2011, 09:45:37 am
    • S of N. Korea
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #512 on: October 13, 2015, 12:44:07 pm »
Lol..I love the last minute.."oh, tomorrow teachers are going on a trip.  You will be here alone."  8)
Illegally Screwed By Employers in Korea:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/1628928127347749/


  • Mister Tim
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1806

    • September 08, 2013, 10:33:54 am
    • SK
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #513 on: October 13, 2015, 12:57:10 pm »
Actually now that I think about it, I wonder how many of those cancellations and reschedulings weren't last minute, but rather had been made known to all the teachers but me at the beginning of each semester. This school has demonstrated that it's certainly possible for schools to know abut class changes far in advance, so perhaps the problem in the past was more a result of a lack of communication, not an inability to keep to a schedule...

Hmmm...


  • zola
  • The Legend

    • 2917

    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #514 on: October 13, 2015, 01:10:38 pm »
Waiting in line to buy a sandwich. Server is busy, looks at me and says 잠깐만요.
No problem. Wait......
Two women enter the shop, elbow their way next to me and start calling out their order. The staff member walks back to the register and takes their order. While I'm standing there like a lemon. I clear my throat and the server looks at me like "What?"

It's not a miscommunication. She knew i was waiting to order, she knew i was the only person waiting there initially, she told me to please wait a moment. Never mind the two bints who completely disregarded me.

I said "**** this" and walked out.

The same scenario has happened to me many times. Usually, not always, the staff will tell the cutting in customers that I am first. 

I just think I've been here far too long. I felt like punching someone. All i wanted was a sandwich.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


  • The Arm
  • Expert Waygook

    • 682

    • March 09, 2015, 09:15:02 am
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #515 on: October 13, 2015, 01:10:53 pm »
Actually now that I think about it, I wonder how many of those cancellations and reschedulings weren't last minute, but rather had been made known to all the teachers but me at the beginning of each semester. This school has demonstrated that it's certainly possible for schools to know abut class changes far in advance, so perhaps the problem in the past was more a result of a lack of communication, not an inability to keep to a schedule...

Hmmm...

Oh, 100% they already knew about it. My second school especially, tells me nothing.

Absolutely agree with this.  Last minute changes here mean we get told at the last minute (sometimes literally).  The actual change was most likely decided WAY in advance but no one has the foresight to mention it. 


Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #516 on: October 13, 2015, 01:32:14 pm »
A reminder to everyone;

Those who disagree with the ethos of this thread can very easily be ignored, allowing the rest of us to vent (whether it be for therapy or fun) in peace.
There's no argument if they can't find someone willing to take the bait.

Have a good one.


  • Mister Tim
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1806

    • September 08, 2013, 10:33:54 am
    • SK
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #517 on: October 13, 2015, 02:06:15 pm »
Yeah, sorry about that.   :angel:


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 2283

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #518 on: October 13, 2015, 02:19:45 pm »
I've refused to do open classes before based on the fact that the open class is different to what we normally teach, and thus a lie. In my contract it has a bit about not being dishonest or some crap like that.

They don't even ask me anymore.
Yep, that's the way to go.
My open classes are exactly the same as my regular ones... I don't change the lesson at all. The coteacher responsible for that particular class usually makes a handout for the P and VP (and the senior teachers who bother showing up) so they can understand what the hell is going on.
Seems to work out pretty well, as I get pretty nice peer reviews come teacher evaluation day. Less stress that way too. :smiley:
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 02:24:33 pm by kyndo »


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4621

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: RANTING/VENTING MEGATHREAD
« Reply #519 on: October 13, 2015, 02:30:28 pm »
I've refused to do open classes before based on the fact that the open class is different to what we normally teach, and thus a lie. In my contract it has a bit about not being dishonest or some crap like that.

They don't even ask me anymore.
Yep, that's the way to go.
My open classes are exactly the same as my regular ones... I don't change the lesson at all. The coteacher responsible for that particular class usually makes a handout for the P and VP (and the senior teachers who bother showing up) so they can understand what the hell is going on.
Seems to work out pretty well, as I get pretty nice peer reviews come teacher evaluation day. Less stress that way too. :smiley:
hm.. i've always done this.

what do people do in open classes that's so different from 'regular' classes? now i'm curious!