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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7580 on: April 02, 2020, 02:21:15 pm »
Honestly, it's just nice to work with other native teachers (ones who aren't weird, too!)

 :laugh:

Making you the weird one, then.  :wink:


Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7581 on: April 02, 2020, 02:33:06 pm »
Yes. First job I've had in years where everyone is really nice. Honestly, it's just nice to work with other native teachers (ones who aren't weird, too!)

I wish I had a NET coworker to pal around with. The closest I've come to having that here was a gyopo, and that guy was a shitstorm of drama. He didn't even last out the entire school year, lol.

I'm just grateful that my current coTs respect my space and aren't high strung or petty.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3616

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7582 on: April 02, 2020, 02:41:04 pm »
I wish I had a NET coworker to pal around with. The closest I've come to having that here was a gyopo, and that guy was a shitstorm of drama. He didn't even last out the entire school year, lol.

I'm just grateful that my current coTs respect my space and aren't high strung or petty.
Yeah I get it. Had no decent Coworkers for years, now I work with 5 other native teachers.

Being the only foreigner at public schools can be pretty lonely, but at least your coworkers sound chilled out. Nowt worse than working with drama queen's


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1177

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7583 on: April 02, 2020, 04:18:22 pm »
Yes, you can draw some fairly obvious conclusions from a foreigner who says things like 'why are all the other foreigners I meet here weirdos.'


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3616

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7584 on: April 02, 2020, 04:57:00 pm »
:laugh:

Making you the weird one, then.  :wink:
haha ran into that one


Yes, you can draw some fairly obvious conclusions from a foreigner who says things like 'why are all the other foreigners I meet here weirdos.'
haha yeah. or "why do all koreans __?"
if you were referred to my comment though, when i said no decent co-workers i just meant none i was particularly friendly with


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1177

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7585 on: April 02, 2020, 05:26:35 pm »
Not having a dig at you no. I 'm always a bit mystified by this kind of topic as I find I can pretty much get on with anyone I choose to if I put my mind to it. Of course you always get one or two exceptional people who hate you for some unclear reason but I usually just chalk that up to jealousy
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 05:28:57 pm by stoat »


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3616

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7586 on: April 02, 2020, 05:34:30 pm »
Not having a dig at you no. I 'm always a bit mystified by this kind of topic as I find I can pretty much get on with anyone I choose to if I put my mind to it. Of course you always get one or two exceptional people who hate you for some unclear reason but I usually just chalk that up to jealousy
yeah so do i. actually the only problems i've had is one insanely loud american guy and also a couple of korean teachers who broke my trust and went behind my back and dobbed me in. other than that i usually just feel the korean teachers to be a little excluding (however i would often put that down to me not speaking korean well enough)


Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7587 on: April 03, 2020, 08:46:59 am »
Not having a dig at you no.

I was. 

 :P


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3616

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7588 on: April 03, 2020, 10:06:43 am »
yeah so do i. actually the only problems i've had is one insanely loud american guy and also a couple of korean teachers who broke my trust and went behind my back and dobbed me in. other than that i usually just feel the korean teachers to be a little excluding (however i would often put that down to me not speaking korean well enough)
forgot to add ronnie omelettes


Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7589 on: April 03, 2020, 11:40:45 am »
does anyone else really like the people they work with?

don't get me wrong i've had some notsogreat experiences with a few co-teachers, but the majority of them have been great. same goes for the other korean teachers in general, i feel like i really won the russian roulette that is EPIK placements.

Yes, but the problem is the korean system rotates these teachers every 2-4 years.  If you have a good setup right now and love all the teachers you work with, cherish it cuz they won't be here long and the next rotation of teachers could be not so great.

That's the thing I don't get with korea.  Why would you want to mess up a good roster?  If there's a roster that just happens to work very well together, happy teachers = happy students = happy school.  But they love to break those apart and throw in completely new teachers and it's like rolling the dice each time.  It may turn out good or better, but it may also turn out really bad.   They should keep strong rosters together for as long as they are able.  This constant shuffling and mixing up the bag and playing russian roulette is the cause of most problems in schools I bet.     That was my experience.  Started off feeling very lucky and fortunate with the roster I had, then it got all tossed up and eventually ran into people I didn't' get along well with and caused problems (minor but still stressful).  Coincidentally everyone changed the year after including me and went to new schools. 

Having said this though, most teachers are really cool and treat you well so chances are you should be fine, but having to build new relationships and gain trust and understanding again is a tiring cycle. 


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3616

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7590 on: April 03, 2020, 11:43:42 am »
Yes, but the problem is the korean system rotates these teachers every 2-4 years.  If you have a good setup right now and love all the teachers you work with, cherish it cuz they won't be here long and the next rotation of teachers could be not so great.

That's the thing I don't get with korea.  Why would you want to mess up a good roster?  If there's a roster that just happens to work very well together, happy teachers = happy students = happy school.  But they love to break those apart and throw in completely new teachers and it's like rolling the dice each time.  It may turn out good or better, but it may also turn out really bad.   They should keep strong rosters together for as long as they are able.  This constant shuffling and mixing up the bag and playing russian roulette is the cause of most problems in schools I bet.     That was my experience.  Started off feeling very lucky and fortunate with the roster I had, then it got all tossed up and eventually ran into people I didn't' get along well with and caused problems.  Coincidentally everyone changed the year after including me and went to new schools. 

Having said this though, most teachers are really cool and treat you well so chances are you should be fine, but having to build new relationships and gain trust and understanding again is a tiring cycle. 

you know, at this school i work at now, most teachers have been here 6+ years. a lot 10+ years- even the native teachers. it's a nice, communal environment and everyone gets along. this is so different than at public schools, where there'd be bitching, drama, complaining, laziness, etc, etc because of the rotation system


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5630

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7591 on: April 03, 2020, 11:47:42 am »
Yeah, the whole  "but what about country vs city?" thing makes no sense. Teachers who live in Anyang teach in Anyang?? Why is that hard? If you live in the country, teach at a school near you, no? WTF

No one deserves a turn in a city. Move there if you love it so much. I have had teachers who commute so far cuz of their placement, like Yongin to Ansan, Byeongjeom to Gwangmyeong. Makes no sense.
레새 뭐 페르, 커나르드. 에스티 타베르낰 트루 드 볘르즈.


Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7592 on: April 03, 2020, 11:51:30 am »
That's the thing I don't get with korea.  Why would you want to mess up a good roster?  If there's a roster that just happens to work very well together, happy teachers = happy students = happy school.  But they love to break those apart and throw in completely new teachers and it's like rolling the dice each time.

There are a couple of reasons for this.

The first being that Korea acknowledges that not all teachers are created equal, and you're going to get a mixed bag of skills, experience, and abilities in that regard. The logic goes that it isn't fair to students at one school to have all of the good teachers while students at other schools get stuck with the bad. That creates too much bias and unfair advantage -- so they mix it up. In this way, you also allow teachers to have a greater amount of exposure to different teaching methods and systems, so, in theory, it's also supposed to help teachers become better teachers.

The second reason also has to do with fairness. Teachers in public schools don't get to choose which schools they get assigned to. Without the lottery, there would be a lot of favoritism and bias assigning certain teachers to good schools and other teachers to bad schools. By constantly rotating, no one can really complain that they're getting shafted, in that regard.

Obviously, this system has its problems, but I think it's kind of a natural compromise to arrive at when working in an intrinsically hierarchical society.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 11:57:13 am by Chinguetti »


Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7593 on: April 03, 2020, 03:31:46 pm »
you know, at this school i work at now, most teachers have been here 6+ years. a lot 10+ years- even the native teachers. it's a nice, communal environment and everyone gets along. this is so different than at public schools, where there'd be bitching, drama, complaining, laziness, etc, etc because of the rotation system

Yes, that's exactly what I mean.  You must work in some private or international school?  Yes, in public school korean teachers I think have to change every 4 or 5 years but some change in just 2.

I can definitely see some benefits as to why they want to do it that way.  But I also think it's just that Korean tends to believe any kind of change always means progress or something good.  Growing up in the west, I remember my public school teachers were at the same school for much longer than 4 or 5 years.  Some would have been there for 10 or 20 years even.  Obviously there are good and bad points about that as well.

When students graduate and want to revisit their schools, it's sad when they come back to see their old teacher and he/she is not there anymore and it was just last year lol.   In the west, I'd recall people having grown up and gotten married having kids and would still go back to their old schools and some of their teachers were still there.  It's a nice feeling of history and continuity.  In Korea the constant change over of teachers can be refreshing, to keep things from getting stale or people developing entitlement, but you also lose the aspect of history and continuity.  There is no link to you and your old school other than the building itself but nobody knows you, cares about you, etc.  It's nice to be able to have a life-long connection sometimes with your former teachers or people who meant a lot to you and be able to revisit them.

I'm glad to hear in your situation, your school does it that way.  I would want the same thing, too.  For me, when you develop good relationships, trust, and you are familiar with each other's styles, tendencies, routines, etc, you can develop a nice sense of workflow and system.  You have more trust in each other, you care about each other more and would be willing to put in more effort just for the sake that you might have a deeper appreciation or respect for people you know rather than people you don't.

It also saves from having to constantly re-familiarize yourself with everything.  It feels like quicksand sometimes because after everything you did and invested or built, it just gets reset and you have to start all over again from scratch.   But yes, some people could welcome a clean slate, fresh start, but if it's going well and you're having the time of your life, why would anyone want to end that? 



Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7594 on: April 03, 2020, 03:34:29 pm »
Yeah, the whole  "but what about country vs city?" thing makes no sense. Teachers who live in Anyang teach in Anyang?? Why is that hard? If you live in the country, teach at a school near you, no? WTF

No one deserves a turn in a city. Move there if you love it so much. I have had teachers who commute so far cuz of their placement, like Yongin to Ansan, Byeongjeom to Gwangmyeong. Makes no sense.

Agreed.  That's why in korea they have these "teacher residences" for those who live really far from their schools.  They have to stay in this teacher residence for the whole week and then go home for the weekend.  That would be pretty shitty unless you want to get away from home and the teacher residence is more like a college dorm party.   


Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7595 on: April 03, 2020, 03:43:37 pm »
There are a couple of reasons for this.

The first being that Korea acknowledges that not all teachers are created equal, and you're going to get a mixed bag of skills, experience, and abilities in that regard. The logic goes that it isn't fair to students at one school to have all of the good teachers while students at other schools get stuck with the bad. That creates too much bias and unfair advantage -- so they mix it up. In this way, you also allow teachers to have a greater amount of exposure to different teaching methods and systems, so, in theory, it's also supposed to help teachers become better teachers.

The second reason also has to do with fairness. Teachers in public schools don't get to choose which schools they get assigned to. Without the lottery, there would be a lot of favoritism and bias assigning certain teachers to good schools and other teachers to bad schools. By constantly rotating, no one can really complain that they're getting shafted, in that regard.

Obviously, this system has its problems, but I think it's kind of a natural compromise to arrive at when working in an intrinsically hierarchical society.

I completely understand that point of view and agree there are some benefits.  But I still have an argument against that.
If you take Elementary school for example, it's a window of 6 years (grade 1 to 6).    That means for any given student in any given generation, you ONLY HAVE 6 years anyways.   So how many teachers do they need to keep swapping in and out of schools so that they get this so-called "fairness" in 6 years?  You already have a variety of teachers in your school and each year they change teachers anyways or some might have teachers for 2 years in a row (as that is the system in korea for some locations like my old school).  So I don't buy that reason because we are only talking about a 6 year window.  There is not enough time to say that kids in those 6 years need to have entire rosters of teachers change 2 or 3 times during their elementary school years.   

If you are talking about an entire education lifetime of a child from K-12, then yes, of course that is a much longer span of time to have a fair variety.   But each student only spends 6 years in elementary school.   I'm not sure how anyone really would be considered an "old" teacher in that time span.     It's also common to mistaken that if a teacher has been at that school for 15 years, we might think, oh that's an old teacher who has been around for too long, but forget that to the students, that is a fresh new teacher they've never seen before.  The students keep revolving and graduate and new students enter, so how does a teacher get old in the span of 6 years?  If the student from K-12 had the same teacher for 12 years, that is a different story.

I remember just couple years ago when they banned teaching english to grade 1 and 2.  That meant as an english teacher, you'd only have a 4 year window of knowing the students or teaching them.  How is 4 years too long or too old?  So if we change teachers every 2 years, would people be happy?  To me, it sounds like parents complain that english teachers turnover so fast and so much and they want someone to stay longer.  So if 2 years is too short and 4 years is considered too long....we are getting very picky.   Makes life so difficult this system.



  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1766

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7596 on: April 03, 2020, 04:17:42 pm »
Another reason they rotate teachers was to prevent corruption. Also keep in mind private school teachers can stay at the same school forever. Depends on how the school ownership is structured. Many private school owners own mulitple schools and may make teachers rotate.


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5630

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7597 on: April 03, 2020, 04:25:56 pm »
The teacher is shit! Just move em around!

What a mindset.

And yeah, great point. The kids are there for 6 years. When you have teachers teaching the same school year for multiple years........guess what? They get better at it. And the kids don't get the same teachers. Unless they flunk, haha.

I just don't understand, "Well, some teachers are kind of bad so why burden one school with them?" So what, you're gonna burden a bunch of schools with them? What?

Pkjh, can you elaborate on the corruption thing?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 04:28:24 pm by CO2 »
레새 뭐 페르, 커나르드. 에스티 타베르낰 트루 드 볘르즈.


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1766

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7598 on: April 03, 2020, 05:04:43 pm »
It's easy to forget now but not that long ago, up until maybe the early 1990s, South Korea was very much a 3rd world country, or developing country (whatever term you want to use). In the past teachers weren't well paid, and jobs weren't secure, especially in private schools. So often bribes in excess of 10 million won was paid to get hired. In the 80s that was huge money for Koreans. A major reason why testing to get a job was implemented.

Also, parents would give teachers money, knowing that teachers pay wasn't great. Wasn't much per parent, but if say 15 of some 50 student's parents slipped you a 100k won or so, it was a lot. Getting this money implied better treatment of the student, and more time spent on the kid, and favorable grading.

Also, teacher outtings were pretty wild back in the day. Teaching until the early-90s was male dominated, and the stress and low pay made the alcohol flow. And when a bunch of male teachers get drunk together that often included the hiring of friendly girls all under the hwaeshik budget.

The government covers the cost of both private and public schools these days, but in the past private schools were partially funded. So private schools made up the difference with tuition (I think soon education up to grade 12 will be 100% government funded if not already). It was affordable to most families except for the poorest of the poor. And if your family didn't have enough money often it was usually girls that got the shaft in favor of the sons of the family. But that's another discussion.

Anyways because of being partially privately funded the government wasn't as stern with their audits in private schools. So funds were wildly misappropriated to certain teachers, administrators, principals, book seller friends, whoever.

Private school were way worse with funds. But it also occured in public schools too. Because in order to audit schools you need man power and transportation. And back then road infrastructure was bad. It used to take over 10 hours by train to get from Seoul to Busan. So just imagine trying to get into some town in Gangwondo back then. Virtually no paved roads, and most people didn't own cars, and the ministries also had to be stingy with their funds. So many rural schools were run however the principal wanted. Auditors getting paidoff (public servants weren't well paid in the olden days). Their own little fiefdom. Which meant funds going into certain people's hands. So rotating teachers and admins makes it harder to play with funds. Why would you redirect funds to someone you don't know? And different people would ask more questions.

Watch the drama Black Dog to get a better insite of teaching in Korea. Most realistic show about teachers I've seen in Korea.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 05:21:02 pm by pkjh »


Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7599 on: April 04, 2020, 11:36:11 am »
I've been told about the corruption, too, but they would never get into the details with me, so I had assumed it dialed back to my points 1 and 2 somehow.

pkjh's explanation definitely puts it all into perspective and provides a better basis for my own points.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 11:55:43 am by Chinguetti »