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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7160 on: January 03, 2020, 01:13:40 pm »
I don't ever remember seeing a young person doing construction here.  I read an article last night and someone mentioned it in passing, but it's so true.  I walk past countless apartment blocks being built and it's all old boys who look above 50.  I've even seen women who look to be in their 60s doing painting/grouting or whatever.  I know it's anecdotal but has anyone else noticed this?

Karl, is that you?

Are builders that old really?  Builders don't age well, you know that? 

« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 01:15:48 pm by Ronnie Omelettes »


  • alexisalex
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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    • March 02, 2014, 05:10:24 pm
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7161 on: January 03, 2020, 01:48:30 pm »
I don't ever remember seeing a young person doing construction here.  I read an article last night and someone mentioned it in passing, but it's so true.  I walk past countless apartment blocks being built and it's all old boys who look above 50.  I've even seen women who look to be in their 60s doing painting/grouting or whatever.  I know it's anecdotal but has anyone else noticed this?

Karl, is that you?

Are builders that old really?  Builders don't age well, you know that? 

I took this sentence out before posting..."I know this isn't on par with "You never see an old man eating a Twix but..."  :laugh:


Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7162 on: January 03, 2020, 02:06:59 pm »
I don't ever remember seeing a young person doing construction here.  I read an article last night and someone mentioned it in passing, but it's so true.  I walk past countless apartment blocks being built and it's all old boys who look above 50.  I've even seen women who look to be in their 60s doing painting/grouting or whatever.  I know it's anecdotal but has anyone else noticed this?

Karl, is that you?

Are builders that old really?  Builders don't age well, you know that? 

I took this sentence out before posting..."I know this isn't on par with "You never see an old man eating a Twix but..."  :laugh:

Have you seen his, I say new, but probably not that new, 'Sick of it'?  I downloaded it from torrent and didn't warm it.  It was funny as he did a breakfast show about it, and they asked him why he came back to do this, and he gave his usual 'I've got bills to pay'.

I've just realised something.  I'm currently umming and ahhing about renewing and as I'm hired directly with my school I've only ever changed the date on my contracts from year to year, so still have the 18 days paid holiday clause.  But what I've now realised, if I get my school to contact the OfE and get the updated EPIK contract, then I'll have 26 days + the 5 days renewal from this current contract, meaning I'd get 31 days.  Hmmmm....


  • alexisalex
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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    • March 02, 2014, 05:10:24 pm
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7163 on: January 03, 2020, 02:25:37 pm »
Have you seen his, I say new, but probably not that new, 'Sick of it'?  I downloaded it from torrent and didn't warm it.  It was funny as he did a breakfast show about it, and they asked him why he came back to do this, and he gave his usual 'I've got bills to pay'.

I never bothered with it because the joy of KP for me has always been Ricky and Steve's reaction to what he comes out with.  As much as I love Karl, when he's on his own it doesn't make me laugh as much.

Saying that though, I really enjoyed this podcast with Karl, just for the insight into his personality and him talking without any real interruptions.    www. youtube .com/watch?v=tDpIJ_6YIAg

Some of us got shafted out of those five extra renewal days.  They took them out of the contract but we still should have gotten them this year but some MOEs pretended like they never existed haha.  I think some MOEs honoured them though.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 02:27:13 pm by alexisalex »


  • Mister Tim
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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7164 on: January 03, 2020, 02:37:00 pm »
But what I've now realised, if I get my school to contact the OfE and get the updated EPIK contract, then I'll have 26 days + the 5 days renewal from this current contract, meaning I'd get 31 days.  Hmmmm....

Be sure to double check that. My POE screwed us out of the 5 renewal days.


Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7165 on: January 03, 2020, 02:57:48 pm »
But what I've now realised, if I get my school to contact the OfE and get the updated EPIK contract, then I'll have 26 days + the 5 days renewal from this current contract, meaning I'd get 31 days.  Hmmmm....

Be sure to double check that. My POE screwed us out of the 5 renewal days.
Yeah, double check that....I also lost my 5 days because they won't honor what was promised in a previous contract


  • Kyndo
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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7166 on: January 04, 2020, 02:51:30 pm »
    Your province might have a different contract than mine, but in Gyeongsangbukdo, the 26 vacation days is actually inclusive of the contract renewal days:

18 days of regular vacation days + 5 contract renewal days, + 3 school holiday days = 26 vacation days.
The only real difference is that noobs also get the 5 days (which is great for them, I guess, the lucky little buggers).

Before the change we got  8 summer + 10 winter + 5 renewal = 23 days, except we didn't need to use vacation days for discretionary school holidays .

 :undecided:


  • Mister Tim
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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7167 on: January 04, 2020, 09:55:22 pm »
    Your province might have a different contract than mine, but in Gyeongsangbukdo, the 26 vacation days is actually inclusive of the contract renewal days:

18 days of regular vacation days + 5 contract renewal days, + 3 school holiday days = 26 vacation days.
The only real difference is that noobs also get the 5 days (which is great for them, I guess, the lucky little buggers).

Before the change we got  8 summer + 10 winter + 5 renewal = 23 days, except we didn't need to use vacation days for discretionary school holidays .

 :undecided:

That's the spiel my POE is giving us, too, and it's bullsh!t. If they want to use that as the reason not to give us any bonus days on subsequent renewals, that's fine. That would at least make sense and not conflict with anything else.

However, it's shady as hell to not give use the renewal days this time just because the base number of days everyone gets is going up. If they said you weren't getting the cash renewal bonus from your previous contract because you moved up a step on the pay scale for the new contract, would that be okay?

Alternatively, it's shady because what's happening is they weren't giving us bonus renewal days all along, they were just giving us the number of days the government mandated they give us once we had already been here a year and calling it a renewal bonus. Now that even first year contracts are mandated the full 26, too, they're just dropping the pretense.

I honestly don't know which one I would consider shadier.

EDIT: It's worth mention that there are POEs that are giving the +5 in addition to the 26 for this contract cycle only, in the interest of fairness. I assume the rest just have no interest in fairness and know there's nothing we can do about it.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 09:57:13 pm by Mister Tim »


  • waygo0k
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    • Chungnam
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7168 on: January 05, 2020, 06:54:28 am »
Remember, these are the same POEs that are hell bent on you using the NEIS system to record you leaving work an hour early.

They are happy to screw you over and lie to you regarding your vacation days...but donít you dare even think of trying the same to them.


  • Kyndo
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    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7169 on: January 06, 2020, 07:48:00 am »
That's the spiel my POE is giving us, too, and it's bullsh!t. If they want to use that as the reason not to give us any bonus days on subsequent renewals, that's fine. That would at least make sense and not conflict with anything else.

However, it's shady as hell to not give use the renewal days this time just because the base number of days everyone gets is going up. If they said you weren't getting the cash renewal bonus from your previous contract because you moved up a step on the pay scale for the new contract, would that be okay?

Alternatively, it's shady because what's happening is they weren't giving us bonus renewal days all along, they were just giving us the number of days the government mandated they give us once we had already been here a year and calling it a renewal bonus. Now that even first year contracts are mandated the full 26, too, they're just dropping the pretense.

I honestly don't know which one I would consider shadier.

EDIT: It's worth mention that there are POEs that are giving the +5 in addition to the 26 for this contract cycle only, in the interest of fairness. I assume the rest just have no interest in fairness and know there's nothing we can do about it.
The difference is in what they're calling it, nothing else.
I mean, I get that it would've been nice if we got more vacation days when the labour laws changed, but it's not as if our POE's are actively taking days away from us which is what I've been hearing from some teachers.
   Our total number of holidays are the same. Same old, same old.  :undecided:


  • alexisalex
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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7170 on: January 06, 2020, 08:12:14 am »
I think lots of us were really frustrated with the change because even though they increased the number of vacation days, they also sneaked in the "school birthday = vacation day" clause.  This meant that some of us actually ended up with fewer vacation days than before because of various school events. 


  • Kayos
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    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7171 on: January 06, 2020, 08:15:39 am »
    Your province might have a different contract than mine, but in Gyeongsangbukdo, the 26 vacation days is actually inclusive of the contract renewal days:

18 days of regular vacation days + 5 contract renewal days, + 3 school holiday days = 26 vacation days.
The only real difference is that noobs also get the 5 days (which is great for them, I guess, the lucky little buggers).

Before the change we got  8 summer + 10 winter + 5 renewal = 23 days, except we didn't need to use vacation days for discretionary school holidays .

 :undecided:

I actually get less vacation with the change. I used to get 24 winter days, 8 summer, and 5 renewal = 37 days vacation. (this included weekends and holidays, but my school was good and often didn't include them).
Now I get 26 + 0 renewal that don't include weekends and holidays.


  • Kayos
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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7172 on: January 06, 2020, 08:22:05 am »
The teachers have been cooking eggs for snacks everyday for the last week and a half.
I really dislike the smell of eggs. D:


  • Mister Tim
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    • September 08, 2013, 10:33:54 am
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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7173 on: January 06, 2020, 08:58:56 am »
That's the spiel my POE is giving us, too, and it's bullsh!t. If they want to use that as the reason not to give us any bonus days on subsequent renewals, that's fine. That would at least make sense and not conflict with anything else.

However, it's shady as hell to not give use the renewal days this time just because the base number of days everyone gets is going up. If they said you weren't getting the cash renewal bonus from your previous contract because you moved up a step on the pay scale for the new contract, would that be okay?

Alternatively, it's shady because what's happening is they weren't giving us bonus renewal days all along, they were just giving us the number of days the government mandated they give us once we had already been here a year and calling it a renewal bonus. Now that even first year contracts are mandated the full 26, too, they're just dropping the pretense.

I honestly don't know which one I would consider shadier.

EDIT: It's worth mention that there are POEs that are giving the +5 in addition to the 26 for this contract cycle only, in the interest of fairness. I assume the rest just have no interest in fairness and know there's nothing we can do about it.
The difference is in what they're calling it, nothing else.
I mean, I get that it would've been nice if we got more vacation days when the labour laws changed, but it's not as if our POE's are actively taking days away from us which is what I've been hearing from some teachers.
   Our total number of holidays are the same. Same old, same old.  :undecided:

So then it's the second of my two shady options there: We were never getting bonus days to begin with. They were just giving us what they had to give us, and calling the increase a "bonus."

Nice.

EDIT: And sure, they aren't giving (most of) us fewer days than we had been getting, but that really is beside the point. We signed contracts saying we get five ADDITIONAL days if we renew. We renewed, and we aren't getting them. It's bizarre to me that people are still defending that. Then again, given our lack of power in this situation, perhaps it'd be better were I to just... accept it.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 09:19:47 am by Mister Tim »


Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7174 on: January 06, 2020, 09:10:22 am »
The teachers have been cooking eggs for snacks everyday for the last week and a half.
I really dislike the smell of eggs. D:

Hardboiled eggs?

I like eggs as much as anyone else, and they're a great protein boost, but it's one of those foods you shouldn't stink up your work office with, lol.

Fish and some types of curry are also part of that. I LOVE both foods, but I would never even consider cooking or heating those foods up in a shared office, lmao.


Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7175 on: January 06, 2020, 09:21:20 am »
I think lots of us were really frustrated with the change because even though they increased the number of vacation days, they also sneaked in the "school birthday = vacation day" clause.  This meant that some of us actually ended up with fewer vacation days than before because of various school events. 

So if the law requires 26 days, I don't think that the discretionary holidays should count as vacation....they were fine with it before the law said 26 days, but now they aren't ok with us just taking the day.....so really we get the same vacation as before, some cases less, and lucky ones maybe a day or two more. ....I have made the decision just to come to school on some of those discretionary days so that I did not lose a vacation day and so that I could just have an easy, get a lot of lessons prepared in advance day. I'm more likely to be productive on those days than deskwarming student vacation time because I have all my textbooks, schedules etc to plan with....don't always have those things between semesters/new year starting.


  • Mister Tim
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    • September 08, 2013, 10:33:54 am
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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7176 on: January 06, 2020, 09:32:54 am »
So if the law requires 26 days, I don't think that the discretionary holidays should count as vacation....they were fine with it before the law said 26 days, but now they aren't ok with us just taking the day.....so really we get the same vacation as before, some cases less, and lucky ones maybe a day or two more. ....I have made the decision just to come to school on some of those discretionary days so that I did not lose a vacation day and so that I could just have an easy, get a lot of lessons prepared in advance day. I'm more likely to be productive on those days than deskwarming student vacation time because I have all my textbooks, schedules etc to plan with....don't always have those things between semesters/new year starting.

The deal was the government required people who are on a one-year contract and have been here longer than a year to have 26 days off. We were getting 18 vacation days + 5 renewal bonus days + 3 principal's discretionary days.

Officially saying we have to use vacation days for those discretionary days isn't technically giving us fewer days off than before, since previously the only days off we knew we were being given were the 18 + 5. We might've thought our schools were giving us those three days off out of the kindness of their hearts, but it was just what they had to give us.

Now the government-wide laws have changed so that even people here on their first contract have to get the full 26. That's nice for them, but it has raised the curtains on the whole process for the rest of us. We can all see that we were never really being given bonuses in the first place, and we're reminded that contracts here can be worth less than the paper they're printed on. It's a joke.


  • Kyndo
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    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7177 on: January 06, 2020, 09:50:56 am »
I don't get it. How does this show that our contracts are worthless?
It just shows that the holidays given to us are the absolute minimum that Korean labour laws allow.
You can argue that this change in laws lifts the curtain about how little we actually get (and I would totally agree), but none of our contracts have been violated. We are still getting everything that we were promised. It just doesn't look as good because now everybody else (the noobs who haven't yet 'earned' the renewal bonus) are getting it as well.
     Objectively, this change is actually a good thing: more people are now getting additional vacation time. Subjectively speaking, I'm a bit miffed 'cause now everybody is getting the same as what I am regardless of time invested in teaching in Korea.

   As for the discretionary holidays, I was told by my administration dude that the schools were only allowed to take 3 per year, so nobody should be getting less holiday days under the new system. On the other hand, I've heard some NETs say that it's actually 3 per semester, which is an entirely different ball game...

   I mean, I'm not exactly happy with the changes, but mostly because the POEs are dressing up no change at all to look like it's a big bump in our vacation times, which is a bit shady imho.


  • Kayos
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    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7178 on: January 06, 2020, 10:08:29 am »
The teachers have been cooking eggs for snacks everyday for the last week and a half.
I really dislike the smell of eggs. D:

Hardboiled eggs?

I like eggs as much as anyone else, and they're a great protein boost, but it's one of those foods you shouldn't stink up your work office with, lol.

Fish and some types of curry are also part of that. I LOVE both foods, but I would never even consider cooking or heating those foods up in a shared office, lmao.

Yeah, looks like hardboiled. I'm allergic to eggs and hate the smell too haha.
Seafood and eggs are 2 foods I can't eat at all. D:


  • Kayos
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Re: A thread for pointless Friday ramblings.
« Reply #7179 on: January 06, 2020, 10:10:20 am »
I think lots of us were really frustrated with the change because even though they increased the number of vacation days, they also sneaked in the "school birthday = vacation day" clause.  This meant that some of us actually ended up with fewer vacation days than before because of various school events. 

So if the law requires 26 days, I don't think that the discretionary holidays should count as vacation....they were fine with it before the law said 26 days, but now they aren't ok with us just taking the day.....so really we get the same vacation as before, some cases less, and lucky ones maybe a day or two more. ....I have made the decision just to come to school on some of those discretionary days so that I did not lose a vacation day and so that I could just have an easy, get a lot of lessons prepared in advance day. I'm more likely to be productive on those days than deskwarming student vacation time because I have all my textbooks, schedules etc to plan with....don't always have those things between semesters/new year starting.

Not sure if this is in every region, or just mine, in my region, principals can force you to use a vacation on these holidays if no one wants to come in and deskwarm with you.
No one at my schools want to, so I'm forced to take a vacation day at each one :\