Listen, I don't think I'm being too unreasonable. For one, someone earlier said that his school paid him overtime for going on his orientation. Maybe yours would do the same if you asked them. Maybe mine would, too. I'm all for protecting the rights that we deserve, but in addition to paying for our working hours during the trip, GEPIK is also supplying meals, transportation, and accommodation. They don't have the right to tell us not to drink, but they have the right to restrict us from drinking in what are, legally, their rooms. I don't want to get into the whole thing about not letting us leave (especially since it was a total non-issue for me; my orientation was out in the middle of nowhere), but if they pay for the rooms and for our stay at the resort/hotel, I'm pretty sure they have a say in what we do there. I'm not a lawyer, though, so maybe I'm wrong. Enough of this, though. Let's stop arguing about drinking and actually do it. It's Friday.
You must remember that "Democracy" is less than 30 years old here. They (the Koreans) are used to be told what to do.Adam
xblindx, you make a strong case. However, it is wrong of you to say rights are cold and abstract while relationships are warm and real. You don't seem to have much basis for this assignment of characteristics.Relationships are just as cold and abstract, then. Relationships exist because they serve your interest. All relationships do, both Korean and Western. I've heard plenty about how in Korea, the emphasis on relationships involves reciprocity. You do something for them, so that later they may do something for you.I'm not saying this is inherently wrong. If it works for you, that's fine. However, it seems that your holding Korean values above Western ones. Isn't that just as bad as what your accusing Westerners of?
Quote from: justanotherwaygook on April 24, 2011, 07:32:32 amxblindx, you make a strong case. However, it is wrong of you to say rights are cold and abstract while relationships are warm and real. You don't seem to have much basis for this assignment of characteristics.Relationships are just as cold and abstract, then. Relationships exist because they serve your interest. All relationships do, both Korean and Western. I've heard plenty about how in Korea, the emphasis on relationships involves reciprocity. You do something for them, so that later they may do something for you.I'm not saying this is inherently wrong. If it works for you, that's fine. However, it seems that your holding Korean values above Western ones. Isn't that just as bad as what your accusing Westerners of?Well I think he is being appropriate, in that we are in Korea, not the West. So it's not a matter of holding one over the other. It's a matter of applying the appropriate set of values to the culture you are living in.
Despite being a non-drinker, I'm with the people who are for there being no restrictions, and I'm curious as to whether or not the same no-alcohol restrictions apply to the Korean camp coordinators and facility staff...it'd be interesting to that out, I think...
Despite being a non-drinker, I'm with the people who are for there being no restrictions, and I'm curious as to whether or not the same no-alcohol restrictions apply to the Korean camp coordinators and facility staff...it'd be interesting to find that out, I think...
The same restrictions do apply to all YBM and GEPIK staff at the Orientation this year.
Quote from: Burndog on April 27, 2011, 03:23:24 pmThe same restrictions do apply to all YBM and GEPIK staff at the Orientation this year.Please enlighten me. What does YBM have to do with GEPIK?
I was at the last orientation and they made a huge deal about how we could drink a couple of beers after 9pm in the garden/convenience store area...but we had to be in bed by 10 (in our own rooms), and no drinking was to be allowed after that. I thought it was a little ridiculous. Some of us went out to the field to drink and talk but it was freezing and we were afraid they would lock us out, so we went to 1 room. Of course 20 people in 1 room can be a little noisy but it wasn't bad and yet we were yelled at and she looked soooo mad and disappointed by the constant "failure" of the foreigners. I just think it is so hypocritical when our school hands out drinks DURING SCHOOL AFTERNOONS right after the children leave. And then the drunken faculty dinners where I am harassed openly by at least 2 of the older male teachers after they drink too much and get pissed if I don't drink with them. Gee, force me to drink when I don't want to because it's YOUR CULTURE and I have to respect that, but don't let the foreigners have some drinks and mingle with each other/get to know each other when they want to. Let's not respect WESTERN CULTURE. It's ridiculous but there isn't anything you can really do about it. Go, try to have a good time, and be thankful that western culture has progressed past this phase. I certainly appreciate a lot more about the US since I've been in Korea. You ever see how the block out smoking on movies? It's funny since I've met more smokers in Korea than back home!
Quote from: bonnieflares on April 27, 2011, 07:16:34 pmI was at the last orientation and they made a huge deal about how we could drink a couple of beers after 9pm in the garden/convenience store area...but we had to be in bed by 10 (in our own rooms), and no drinking was to be allowed after that. I thought it was a little ridiculous. Some of us went out to the field to drink and talk but it was freezing and we were afraid they would lock us out, so we went to 1 room. Of course 20 people in 1 room can be a little noisy but it wasn't bad and yet we were yelled at and she looked soooo mad and disappointed by the constant "failure" of the foreigners. I just think it is so hypocritical when our school hands out drinks DURING SCHOOL AFTERNOONS right after the children leave. And then the drunken faculty dinners where I am harassed openly by at least 2 of the older male teachers after they drink too much and get pissed if I don't drink with them. Gee, force me to drink when I don't want to because it's YOUR CULTURE and I have to respect that, but don't let the foreigners have some drinks and mingle with each other/get to know each other when they want to. Let's not respect WESTERN CULTURE. It's ridiculous but there isn't anything you can really do about it. Go, try to have a good time, and be thankful that western culture has progressed past this phase. I certainly appreciate a lot more about the US since I've been in Korea. You ever see how the block out smoking on movies? It's funny since I've met more smokers in Korea than back home!Was gonna leave this thread alone, but since it just won't die, figure I may as well speak out. Not gonna say I'm necessarily a proponent of the new rules, but really, I've been at orientations and job trips back in the states where drinking rules were much more strict. As in: people got caught drinking and being up past curfew and got let go. Rather than finding 20 people in one small room drinking and being given the equivalent of a slap on the wrist. Of course she looked disappointed: you guys did something directly opposing the rules you were given, and it probably reflected badly on her. I really don't see how those rules are reflective of Korean culture...I mean yeah, you don't like those rules, but one organization having a few rules about curfew and drinking during training time is NOT a portrayal of an entire culture,Also, you can always say "no" to drinking at school. I'm sure you were told about either offering other people to pour you water, or just pretending to sip the soju.
What they hell kind of American orientation sessions are these? Jehovah's Witness and Southern Baptist conventions? How in America can any company tell you what legal things you can't do outside work without paying you for being on duty?
Quote from: Yu_Bumsuk on April 27, 2011, 08:28:43 pmWhat they hell kind of American orientation sessions are these? Jehovah's Witness and Southern Baptist conventions? How in America can any company tell you what legal things you can't do outside work without paying you for being on duty?Orientations and small jobs where I'm getting paid for, under contract, residing in company-paid housing, and expected to be in a position of responsibility. Think RA training, working at tradeshows basically all day, etc. The contract is the key part there, just like EPIK.
Except that you're not, in fact, getting paid to be on duty 24/7 but nevertheless expected to act as though you were.