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  • CDW
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« on: September 11, 2014, 05:26:03 pm »
“Remarkably, the traditional Korean approach to education was formative in the workforce and management that has created such creative and innovative products and services. It is performance orientation that leads to creativity after all....
“Korea is becoming more Westernized with some tendency to adapt a permissive Western approach to education with less focus on academic performance. Many classes in Korean public schools are still large with approximately 40-50 students, and managing such classes without a disciplined approach is a challenge with fast dropping academic results if the Korean approach is left.”

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2014/09/181_164316.html
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 05:30:59 pm by CDW »


  • Hoosier_Jedi
  • Expert Waygook

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Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2014, 08:43:17 pm »
What a butt-kissing piece of BS.  :rolleyes:


Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2014, 09:00:50 pm »
It's just... They work so hard to keep that suicide rate up... Westernization might throw a monkey wrench into the robot factory that is Korean education.


Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2014, 10:24:10 pm »
It's just... They work so hard to keep that suicide rate up... Westernization might throw a monkey wrench into the robot factory that is Korean education.

...and Tyson lands a vicious haymaker!!!! :laugh: :laugh:


  • scholes
  • Expert Waygook

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    • May 12, 2011, 10:01:50 pm
    • Beomgye
Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2014, 10:56:43 pm »
They wanna blame public schools poor performance on westernization and never wanna accept blame themselves.

Where do they get the creativity part, thats the biggest joke.

The authors are Economists from an austrialian university.

I would love to see what kind qualitative analysis was used and what the assumptions were.

In my opinion it was based on:
MONEY
MONEY
MONEY

Quote
His current research interests are the modeling of complex systems in economics, marketing and education.


Three completely different fields.

This has to be a parody of some sort.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 11:02:35 pm by scholes »


  • CDW
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1782

    • June 15, 2011, 01:22:09 pm
    • Banned
Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2014, 01:15:59 am »
I haven't noticed his articles before. He has been published in the Korea Times several times before. It seems he blames the Sewol tragedy on the captain and crew not being Korean enough. Maybe they were subjected to too much foreign influence?

“The tragedy has put Korea in the global spotlight for all the wrong reasons. Captain Lee Joon-seok and some of his crew leaving the ship as some of the first are most un-Korean.Especially in Korea’s Confucian society, the leader assumes clear responsibility for the entrusted, and in such an accident stays onboard and rescues as many lives as humanly possible with his crew.”
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2014/05/197_156645.html

Another article about education:

“If liberal education policymakers were to reduce the power of teachers and enforce Western pedagogy upon them, then Korea easily gives up what it has achieved over the past 60 years.”
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2014/08/181_163697.html






  • Mashley30
  • Super Waygook

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    • August 31, 2011, 11:47:35 am
    • Gwangju, South Korea
Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2014, 07:53:23 am »
“Remarkably, the traditional Korean approach to education was formative in the workforce and management that has created such creative and innovative products and services. It is performance orientation that leads to creativity after all....
“Korea is becoming more Westernized with some tendency to adapt a permissive Western approach to education with less focus on academic performance. Many classes in Korean public schools are still large with approximately 40-50 students, and managing such classes without a disciplined approach is a challenge with fast dropping academic results if the Korean approach is left.”

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2014/09/181_164316.html


Isn't it a well-known cliche that Korea takes existing products and makes them better/more efficient? I don't know if that counts as a creative or innovative focused society.


Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2014, 07:59:18 am »
The article is click bait for the right wing.  Disregard it, it is nonsense.


Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2014, 08:05:24 am »
Ah yes, the proven workplace strategies of sleeping all day and drinking all night.


Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2014, 08:26:54 am »
Granted Western education has some problems as of late due to Political Correctness and no discipline of kids on the one hand while resorting to 0 tolerance and police involvement on the other.  It's completely messed up.  But what does work well is creativity.  In Korea, it use to be get beaten with a stick for the most minor infraction or even getting a wrong answer.  Instill fear of your ajossi so you never speak up or encourage brainstorming.  Creativity is low in Asian cultures.  They are great at duplicating, but not inventing. 

Test scores you always hear politicians talk about back home don't matter.  Asians study for the test but don't learn.  Many of our past generations quit school and went to work.  Some became business owners and went on to make a lot of money.  They learned through life.  I'm not saying that education isn't important, but extreme emphasis on test scores is overblown.  Our societies became rich and prosperous by the hard work of many with minimal education.  How about univerisity drop outs such as Steve Jobs and Bill Gates?  It doesn't matter about test scores. 

We've all seen up close the competitive pressure these poor kids face with obsession over test scores and which university you went to in order to get hired by companies and obsession with status, etc. 


  • pkjh
  • The Legend

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    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
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Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2014, 08:33:00 am »
How about univerisity drop outs such as Steve Jobs and Bill Gates?
Love how people use them as examples. But people tend to leave out the fact that both came from pretty financially cushy backgrounds, and had little to lose had their risks not panned out. Not sure if a poor student would be as willing to forgo a degree on an opportunity that came at them midway through doing their undergrad degree.

Maybe Michael Dell would be a better example. But again, he wouldn't have been too bad off had Dell failed.


Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2014, 08:56:20 am »
"Isn't it a well-known cliche that Korea takes existing products and makes them better/more efficient? I don't know if that counts as a creative or innovative focused society."


This applies to Japanese society. They refer to it as Japanization. Several Japanese professors spent hours bragging about taking existing entities and making them superior through the above process while lecturing as guests profs at my university.  It might be true about Korea as well, but I've certainly never heard it spoken so proudly. What I'm referring to involves existing foods and consumer products then making them "Japanese" and therefore superior, according to these professors. Here in Korea, products just seem to be imported and sold.. certainly not improved upon or even claimed to have been improved upon. Japan loves to take other Asian dishes and make them their own.. just look at mapo tofu aka mabo dofu... The closest thing I've seen to this in  Korea is a single restaurant blending Mexican and Korean cuisine and that's not a national belief being created.. if anything, Korea is always trying to create distinctions between what is Korean and what is not. I may be missing the Koreanizing of products. China and Japan are far more guilty.. Japan trying to improve upon existing products and China trying to create cheaper, crappier products than the originals.


  • Paul
  • Featured Contributor

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    • September 21, 2010, 10:28:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2014, 09:05:21 am »
I may be missing the Koreanizing of products.

At risk of diverging a touch too far off topic, Koreanised Chinese food is huge.
More primary school colours and shapes activity ideas and resources than you'd ever need - here
Holy free educational fonts Batman!


Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2014, 09:12:31 am »
Here's the thing though:
Many things Koreans think of as Korean really aren't.
For example, I recently commented about saunas and a guy said , "you know about 사우나? Wow!" Of course the word is Finnish and also commonly used in English, but he thought saunas are exclusively Korean. I've also had students say cars were invented by Koreans in the 1980s and that kimchi is the world's most popular dish. Not joking. Very few "korean" things are actually Korean, fyi


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

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    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2014, 09:16:59 am »
They wanna blame public schools poor performance on westernization and never wanna accept blame themselves.

Where do they get the creativity part, thats the biggest joke.

The authors are Economists from an austrialian university.

I would love to see what kind qualitative analysis was used and what the assumptions were.

In my opinion it was based on:
MONEY
MONEY
MONEY

Quote
His current research interests are the modeling of complex systems in economics, marketing and education.


Three completely different fields.

This has to be a parody of some sort.
No, I'm pretty sure "modeling complex systems" is just one field, even though it contains three different words.


Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2014, 09:58:10 am »
People...instead of thinking with your heart with all it's patriotism, let's try using your brains for once (and if you still think I'm wrong, I would love to hear why. It's always nice to be proven wrong; that's how you learn). I will address the different thing stated here.

Facts:

South Korea is close to #1 in many fields, if not #1. The education system here works. There is no doubting it.

Finland's education comes very close, but have been on a steady decline over the last few years, with many asian countries overtaking it with it's so called "confucius" methods.

Suicide rates are much more prevalent among adults than with the younger generation in south korea. That means the the high suicide rate is made much more by adults than students. This means school is not a major cause. Shown by this quote from the OECD:

Quote
. The largest increasing age gradient is found in Korea. Korean suicide rates by age show a steep increase from the ages of 45-54. Furthermore, rates amongst the eldest group (75 years or more) are more than ten times higher than those of young people aged 15-24. The upward Korean suicide trend of recent years is partly explained by a strong rise in suicide by older people.

Koreans thinking inventions are of Korean origins do not say anything about their education system. It simply speaks of their society. If people were to bring certain things from the outside Korea, and people are not informed of the origins, it is normal to conclude that someone within Korea invented it. I'm not saying it's right, but it's an explanation that puts the blame on the homogeneous society, rather than the education system. Knowing where spaghetti originated from is not that great of an importance in the scheme of things.

Many people say that students do not learn, and only regurgitate material for exams. That's with every education system. People seem to think that regurgitation means that they retain absolutely nothing, which isn't true at all. Simple regurgitation, with no information being retained, would have never led Korea to be one of the fastest growing economies.

Different fields of studies coming together are how new things are made and improved on. That's why companies who departmentalize everything are starting to decline, and those who create diverse work groups are increasing. Just because they may seem "completely different", does not mean they cannot come together. It only means you yourself, cannot see how they connect. If you don't believe me, think about how living things, fruits, electronics, and music comes together. If you say they have nothing in common, then click the following link.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joylabs/makey-makey-an-invention-kit-for-everyone

Lastly, back to the whole suicide rates. I think it is appropriate to say that Finland has an opposite view on education. Which produces very high, similar results as Korea. it also produces a high suicide rate. Their "more relaxed" education system yields a very similar suicide rate to that of Korea.

If there are any facts that actually support western countries having a better education system, I would love to hear it.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 10:05:51 am by richardtang1991 »
Open your mind.


  • Hoosier_Jedi
  • Expert Waygook

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Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2014, 10:03:50 am »
People...instead of thinking with your heart with all it's patriotism, let's try using your brains for once (and if you still think I'm wrong, I would love to hear why. It's always nice to be proven wrong; that's how you learn). I will address the different thing stated here.

Facts:

South Korea is close to #1 in many fields, if not #1. The education system here works. There is no doubting it.

There's no doubt a lot of cooking the books is involved.  :rolleyes:


Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2014, 10:08:57 am »
People...instead of thinking with your heart with all it's patriotism, let's try using your brains for once (and if you still think I'm wrong, I would love to hear why. It's always nice to be proven wrong; that's how you learn). I will address the different thing stated here.

Facts:

South Korea is close to #1 in many fields, if not #1. The education system here works. There is no doubting it.

There's no doubt a lot of cooking the books is involved.  :rolleyes:

I match your asinine comment that provides no proof with this: The moon landing is fake.
Open your mind.


Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2014, 10:20:52 am »
I think the Korean education system is flawed, just like other education systems. The Western model has issues as well. They both also have their strengths, if there was a way to blend the two, that would be ideal but both systems depend on cultural values which makes it harder to blend. Knocking the Korean system completely seems childish, they do much better testing wise then most of the world, it is more a value judgement than a fact to say their system sucks. I am not a big fan of using tests as the sole indicator of intelligence/schooling but I recognize that is a value judgement and try not to make blanket statement about an education system that has produced one of the most fascinating economic growth stories ever.

As for suicide rates, I'm pretty sure a lot of the trouble here is because of bullying, not necessarily pressure in schooling. That and the fact it is more socially acceptable to commit suicide here than it is back home (Western World).


Re: Westernization a Threat to Korea's Proven System of Education?
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2014, 10:30:08 am »
I think the Korean education system is flawed, just like other education systems. The Western model has issues as well. They both also have their strengths, if there was a way to blend the two, that would be ideal but both systems depend on cultural values which makes it harder to blend. Knocking the Korean system completely seems childish, they do much better testing wise then most of the world, it is more a value judgement than a fact to say their system sucks. I am not a big fan of using tests as the sole indicator of intelligence/schooling but I recognize that is a value judgement and try not to make blanket statement about an education system that has produced one of the most fascinating economic growth stories ever.

As for suicide rates, I'm pretty sure a lot of the trouble here is because of bullying, not necessarily pressure in schooling. That and the fact it is more socially acceptable to commit suicide here than it is back home (Western World).

Yeah it is even in the way we describe it, we commit suicide, like commit a murder or a crime.  Same word.

Off the top of my head I understand it is a Christian thing, not allowed to be buried in a church yard if you commit suicide and other theological stuff I don't really know.