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  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5285

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu Province, Taiwan
    more
Welfare programs drive school cuts
« on: August 21, 2014, 05:24:06 am »
Guess we will all soon be part of the cuts.


http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2993734&cloc=joongangdaily|home|newslist2


Aug 20,2014
A number of free education and welfare policies were touted by aspiring politicians and city officials in the lead-up to the June 4 local elections, though since the polls, it appears that the reality has been far from what was promised.

Last month, the Seoul Metropolitan Office of Education slashed the budget for operational expenses - funding critical for schools to purchase class supplies and support extracurricular activities - cutting an average of 5 million won ($4,912) from each elementary, middle and high school in the city.

The government claimed the cuts were the only way to shrink an oversized budget, but experts worry that the reductions will minimize the overall quality of education.

A man who teaches an extracurricular course at a high school in Gangnam District, southern Seoul, said he felt guilty for the decreasing quality of his class. Subsidies for extracurricular activities at the school have consistently decreased over the past three years, and this year’s funding was just a third of what it was in 2013.

“Up until three years ago, we used to go on field trips, but now we don’t even have enough money to buy tools and other supplies,” he said. “It’s difficult to conduct the classes properly because [the education authority] doesn’t even give us minimum funding.”

Experts suggest the need for reductions resulted from both conservative and liberal candidates promoting too many free policies in order to win their campaigns.

The budget for the free school lunch policy, which began during Seoul Superintendent Kwak No-hyun’s term in 2011, for example, has increased from 116.2 billion won to 263.1 billion won. Additionally, the budget for after-school childcare classes jumped to 44.6 billion won, from 27.2 billion won last year, while funding for free education for preschoolers also increased from 478.2 billion won last year to 547.3 billion won this year.

“It is very difficult to revoke welfare policies,” said Song Gi-chang, an education professor at Sookmyung Women’s University. “Free education seems attractive at first, but it will eventually harm [the entire education system].”

Those most affected by the policies, however, will be students. At public schools, the budget for class materials this year is 11.4 billion won, down from 15.8 billion won last year, according to the Ministry of Education. The budget for school maintenance was also halved this year to 80.1 billion won, from 171.6 billion won last year.

Such tight financial conditions mean the availability of early retirements for teachers is limited as well. The budget related to early retirements for the latter half of this year was reduced to 66 billion won, much less than the 173.3 billion won allotted for the same period last year.

Educators were openly critical of the Seoul education authority’s announcement on Aug. 7 that it had accepted only 7.6 percent - or 181 teachers - of the 2,386 applications for early retirement in the latter half of this year.

Analysts also assert that too much focus on welfare policies may result in those in need being neglected.

According to a forum held last year by the Korean Society for the Economic Finance of Education, the Seoul Metropolitan Office of Education assigned 68.5 percent of its budget to welfare this year - a significant increase from the 28.3 percent allotted in 2013.

However, it reduced the amount budgeted to support children from disadvantaged families to 21.5 percent, down from 46.5 percent.

“The best policy now is not to expand any more welfare projects without a way to support them,” Song said
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4117

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2014, 06:07:18 am »
I've been saying this since the free lunch thing started.

If you do the math, you'll notice the average NET's yearly salary covers the school's free lunch for only a month. Have a teacher for a year, or free lunch for a month.



  • Epistemology
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1906

    • September 19, 2010, 01:57:27 pm
    more
Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2014, 08:01:59 am »
The thing about free school lunch is that its not actually needed in Korea(Yet). The poorest workers can still earn enough money for their family to eat. This isn't like say the situation in the UK where the poorest workers have to rely on foodbanks and charity to survive because their meager wages cant even afford to put enough food on the table.

Perspective is needed. If the social situation deteriorates to something like that in the present day UK, then yes free school lunch may be a good thing. However that is not the case.

The need for food welfare signifies that something is very wrong with that society.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 08:03:49 am by Epistemology »
Away an bile yer heid ya numpty,ye dinnae ken whit yer talkin aboot.


Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2014, 08:11:44 am »
Guess we will all soon be part of the cuts.


http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2993734&cloc=joongangdaily|home|newslist2


Aug 20,2014
A number of free education and welfare policies were touted by aspiring politicians and city officials in the lead-up to the June 4 local elections, though since the polls, it appears that the reality has been far from what was promised.

Last month, the Seoul Metropolitan Office of Education slashed the budget for operational expenses - funding critical for schools to purchase class supplies and support extracurricular activities - cutting an average of 5 million won ($4,912) from each elementary, middle and high school in the city.

The government claimed the cuts were the only way to shrink an oversized budget, but experts worry that the reductions will minimize the overall quality of education.

A man who teaches an extracurricular course at a high school in Gangnam District, southern Seoul, said he felt guilty for the decreasing quality of his class. Subsidies for extracurricular activities at the school have consistently decreased over the past three years, and this year’s funding was just a third of what it was in 2013.

“Up until three years ago, we used to go on field trips, but now we don’t even have enough money to buy tools and other supplies,” he said. “It’s difficult to conduct the classes properly because [the education authority] doesn’t even give us minimum funding.”

Experts suggest the need for reductions resulted from both conservative and liberal candidates promoting too many free policies in order to win their campaigns.

The budget for the free school lunch policy, which began during Seoul Superintendent Kwak No-hyun’s term in 2011, for example, has increased from 116.2 billion won to 263.1 billion won. Additionally, the budget for after-school childcare classes jumped to 44.6 billion won, from 27.2 billion won last year, while funding for free education for preschoolers also increased from 478.2 billion won last year to 547.3 billion won this year.

“It is very difficult to revoke welfare policies,” said Song Gi-chang, an education professor at Sookmyung Women’s University. “Free education seems attractive at first, but it will eventually harm [the entire education system].”

Those most affected by the policies, however, will be students. At public schools, the budget for class materials this year is 11.4 billion won, down from 15.8 billion won last year, according to the Ministry of Education. The budget for school maintenance was also halved this year to 80.1 billion won, from 171.6 billion won last year.

Such tight financial conditions mean the availability of early retirements for teachers is limited as well. The budget related to early retirements for the latter half of this year was reduced to 66 billion won, much less than the 173.3 billion won allotted for the same period last year.

Educators were openly critical of the Seoul education authority’s announcement on Aug. 7 that it had accepted only 7.6 percent - or 181 teachers - of the 2,386 applications for early retirement in the latter half of this year.

Analysts also assert that too much focus on welfare policies may result in those in need being neglected.

According to a forum held last year by the Korean Society for the Economic Finance of Education, the Seoul Metropolitan Office of Education assigned 68.5 percent of its budget to welfare this year - a significant increase from the 28.3 percent allotted in 2013.

However, it reduced the amount budgeted to support children from disadvantaged families to 21.5 percent, down from 46.5 percent.

“The best policy now is not to expand any more welfare projects without a way to support them,” Song said


What's wrong with these people


  • Epistemology
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1906

    • September 19, 2010, 01:57:27 pm
    more
Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2014, 08:39:07 am »
Well, the thing about wealthy people, such as politicians, is that they are all for welfare - as long as its welfare for the wealthy. Screw the poor is their motto.
Away an bile yer heid ya numpty,ye dinnae ken whit yer talkin aboot.


Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2014, 10:05:14 am »
that lunch budget is absolutely staggering. what the hell are they spending all that money on? has the price of gochujang and kimchi suddenly doubled or something?

it's completely backwards. the kids are eating like kings (or so i would assume based on that budget) but learning like peasants because schools can't afford to buy even basic supplies for teachers.


  • BloosCorn
  • Veteran

    • 197

    • August 31, 2012, 08:04:13 am
    • Yecheon, South Korea
Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2014, 10:47:07 am »
Did they write a blank check for schools when it came to the new lunch program? It seems unreasonable that costs could balloon so high in such a short frame of time. Additionally, because of Korean customs when it comes to food, it's really cheap to make delicious food. We eat fantastically well at my schools and it costs nearly nothing. Are our lunches already being subsidizes as well?


Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2014, 11:35:24 am »
The thing about free school lunch is that its not actually needed in Korea(Yet). The poorest workers can still earn enough money for their family to eat. This isn't like say the situation in the UK where the poorest workers have to rely on foodbanks and charity to survive because their meager wages cant even afford to put enough food on the table.

Perspective is needed. If the social situation deteriorates to something like that in the present day UK, then yes free school lunch may be a good thing. However that is not the case.

The need for food welfare signifies that something is very wrong with that society.

The thing is that they already had a decent lunch system for poor students so really the only people who benefit are richer people.  The whole issue had nothing to do with whether or not free lunches for all was a good for Korea, but essentially a referendum on the mayor


  • GoCyclones
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1022

    • February 01, 2012, 10:34:54 am
    • Central Seoul
Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2014, 12:14:18 pm »
Well, I applaud that they cannot come up with the money. In the USA, they would just print more of it and/or borrow it.


  • Ley_Druid
  • The Legend

    • 2468

    • February 17, 2011, 08:36:33 am
    • Shinan-Gun, Jeollanam-Do, South Korea
Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2014, 12:46:36 pm »
Well, I applaud that they cannot come up with the money. In the USA, they would just print more of it and/or borrow it.
Are you suggesting that the school boards would borrow or print money? I don't think that they can do that.


Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2014, 12:55:44 pm »
He's applauding how students will suffer in Korea. He doesn't like how in the US they'd find the money to support schools if they really had to. Basically, he doesn't care about students as long as his political ideals don't actually affect him personally.


  • fishead
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1138

    • April 23, 2010, 07:58:05 am
    • Yangju Korea
Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2014, 01:33:30 pm »
 These cuts are going to put me on welfare. Well there is always the monthly cab ride to the beer store to look forward to.


Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2014, 02:35:38 pm »
How about the rich kids pay for school lunch?  Parents do a bank transfer to the school each month for Min Su's lunch.  How about poor people get a waver for school lunch and they make it discrete?  (I realize that's easier said than done as Koreans often don't seem to know the definition of privacy.  Maybe give a discrete form to the finance office directly providing immunity from lunch fees.)  This would be much cheaper and put the budget back in balance. 

Heck, when I was in Middle School, I went home at lunch and mom made me a quick and cheap meal.  After a half hour of TV, I went back to school for the afternoon session.  Nothing was paid by school.  (My friends who lived far away had to bus it and bring a sandwich to school.  Sucked for them.) 


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4117

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2014, 02:40:43 pm »
The rich folks would simply hide all their money, fake some documents to state their income level and claim to be poor so they wouldn't have to subsidize other people's children, while getting free money/lunch for their own children.


Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2014, 03:13:43 pm »
The rich folks would simply hide all their money, fake some documents to state their income level and claim to be poor so they wouldn't have to subsidize other people's children, while getting free money/lunch for their own children.

Not if you provide a copy of last year's tax return as proof, unless they're hiding the money anyways.  But, they wouldn't be doing it for the purposes of avoiding school lunches for their kids.   8)


Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2014, 03:14:30 pm »
I've been saying this since the free lunch thing started.

If you do the math, you'll notice the average NET's yearly salary covers the school's free lunch for only a month. Have a teacher for a year, or free lunch for a month.

i was curious so i did actually do the math, as it applies to my school. my school has around 1 000 kids. lunch costs about 3 000 won (actually a little over, but i've rounded it down to make calculation easier). since the kids eat lunch 5 days a week, and there are 4 weeks in a month and 12 months in a year, for 1 000 kids this means my school would spend 720 000 000 per year on school lunches  :huh:

my base salary is 2.3 mil, plus i'll add in 400k per month for the apartment they pay for. that means i cost my school 32 400 000 won per year.

so that means my school would actually be able to employ me for 22 years with the money they spend in one single year on free school lunches, if my salary never increased and if the rent on my apartment never increased.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 03:16:23 pm by johnny russian »


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4117

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2014, 03:22:49 pm »
I've been saying this since the free lunch thing started.

If you do the math, you'll notice the average NET's yearly salary covers the school's free lunch for only a month. Have a teacher for a year, or free lunch for a month.

i was curious so i did actually do the math, as it applies to my school. my school has around 1 000 kids. lunch costs about 3 000 won (actually a little over, but i've rounded it down to make calculation easier). since the kids eat lunch 5 days a week, and there are 4 weeks in a month and 12 months in a year, for 1 000 kids this means my school would spend 720 000 000 per year on school lunches  :huh:

my base salary is 2.3 mil, plus i'll add in 400k per month for the apartment they pay for. that means i cost my school 32 400 000 won per year.

so that means my school would actually be able to employ me for 22 years with the money they spend in one single year on free school lunches, if my salary never increased and if the rent on my apartment never increased.

Let's also take into account holidays, etc...which would amount in kids being in school for roughly 6-7 months per calendar year....the total amount spent on would still be mind buggling though  :cry:



Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2014, 03:30:23 pm »
I've been saying this since the free lunch thing started.

If you do the math, you'll notice the average NET's yearly salary covers the school's free lunch for only a month. Have a teacher for a year, or free lunch for a month.

i was curious so i did actually do the math, as it applies to my school. my school has around 1 000 kids. lunch costs about 3 000 won (actually a little over, but i've rounded it down to make calculation easier). since the kids eat lunch 5 days a week, and there are 4 weeks in a month and 12 months in a year, for 1 000 kids this means my school would spend 720 000 000 per year on school lunches  :huh:

my base salary is 2.3 mil, plus i'll add in 400k per month for the apartment they pay for. that means i cost my school 32 400 000 won per year.

so that means my school would actually be able to employ me for 22 years with the money they spend in one single year on free school lunches, if my salary never increased and if the rent on my apartment never increased.
Btw, the calculation is off; there aren't 4 weeks in a month (it's ~4.35 since some have 5 weeks) and students aren't in school every week of the year.

And on different note, if you need to take a week's of something and expand to a year, it's cleaner to just use that there are 52 weeks in a year.

Oh and think of the schools that have one teacher in 3 places like me...


Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2014, 04:15:49 pm »
yeah i completely forgot about holidays, thanks for pointing that out  8)

winter vacation is around 2 months and summer vacation around 1 month, so that brings the total number of weeks kids are at school to around 40 weeks.

the new calculation gives me 600 000 000 won per year. still enough to pay my salary for around 18.5 years.

of course these are rough estimates and don't take into account things like the fact that i would move up the pay scale, rent on my apartment would increase, lunch prices would likely go up each year, etc.

but it still gives some indication of how cutting NETs because of the free lunch policy is a bit ridiculous. my province would have to cut 18-19 NETs just to provide free lunch for 1 year alone for just my one school. i live in a small city and there are only around 20 public school teachers here. so they would have to cut practically all of us in this city just to feed my school for one year  :laugh:



Re: Welfare programs drive school cuts
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2014, 05:24:26 pm »
The rich folks would simply hide all their money, fake some documents to state their income level and claim to be poor so they wouldn't have to subsidize other people's children, while getting free money/lunch for their own children.

And what are you basing this on?