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  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #820 on: March 09, 2019, 07:06:42 am »
South Korea has a much higher per capita energy consumption than Japan and China. True fact; look it up.

So wasteful.

What's causing that?

Huge SUVs. Bright flashing neon lights left on all night. Heat cranked up to 27 with doors left open.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #821 on: March 09, 2019, 07:23:13 am »
Yet Japan's air is much cleaner than Korea's. Could it be because they are further away from China?

Japan has significantly cleaner air, and yes that is one reason.

Are you aware electricity consumption in Japan has been going down (as people learn to conserve). Meanwhile in South Korea it's been going up (as the population is gradually becoming wealthier with more disposable income). So, Koreans typically consume more electricity than typical Japanese residents and coal makes 30% of Japan's electricity compared to 43% for South Korea.

Another factor is proximity to North Korea. North Korea burns a ton of coal and has plans to burn more.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #822 on: March 09, 2019, 07:29:49 am »
North Korea's Push for More Coal Clouds Environmental Future

SEOUL ó North Korean leader Kim Jong Un sees coal as a key way to boost the economy, but burning more coal may worsen pollution in a country already choking on some of the world's most toxic air.

With the country staggering under the weight of international sanctions over its nuclear weapons program and human rights violations, defectors and analysts say Pyongyang has increased the domestic use of coal, which is blocked for export.

Seven coal power plants and one oil-fired plant produce nearly 50 percent of North Korea's electricity, with the rest coming from hydro power, according to South Korean government data. For households, coal is also a key fuel source for cooking and heating.

But an increased reliance, which Kim announced in his New Year address, may have deadly implications.

Per capita, North Korea's air pollution mortality rate was the world's highest.


https://www.voanews.com/a/north-korea-s-push-for-more-coal-clouds-environmental-future/4764105.html


  • macteacher
  • Expert Waygook

    • 679

    • September 03, 2012, 09:59:00 am
    • south korea
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #823 on: March 09, 2019, 09:44:39 am »

As this article details, the use of coal has risen in Korea over the past decade. Only recently did Korea supposedly halt the construction of 10+ new coal plants. Itís immature to criticize China over something that Korea is barely willing to do themselves.

South Korea is the only country in the world ramping up coal power plants. Every other country (including China) is scaling them back. There are coal industry magazines from a few years ago gushing over South Korea being their only viable customer. I'm surprised that the bitter country of Han doesn't blame wicked foreign lobbyists for tricking poor victimized Korea into getting addicted to coal, which is kind of what happened.

False:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45640706

Along with Japan:

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/10/china-japan-south-korea-lead-global-push-to-expand-coal-plants/
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/10/09/reference/japan-continues-rely-coal-eyes-coal-fired-plants-despite-global-criticism/

Yet Japan's air is much cleaner than Korea's. Could it be because they are further away from China?

I know a lot of people here have a hard on for hating Korea, but to deny China's big involvement of the pollution here is ignorant.

This is a straw man, I  canít speak for everyone but Iím pretty sure the people who want Korea to take more action locally, also acknowledge the role of China. Itís just I donít think a platform of ďnun-uh you did it!Ē is practical for a global issue.


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1269

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #824 on: March 09, 2019, 04:39:53 pm »
46%,... 68%...

whether a half or two thirds comes from China....

A third at least is local, maybe up to a half,...

The fact that local coal use has INCREASED over the ladt decade should be a viral political issue!


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #825 on: March 09, 2019, 05:43:18 pm »
According to the preliminary Korea US-Air Quality (KORUS AQ) study, conducted by NASA and Koreaís National Institute of Environmental Research, about 52 percent of Koreaís fine dust particles and other airborne pollutants have domestic origins. China was the origin of some 34 percent of the particles, while 9 percent came from North Korea.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170719000994

A previous study by Yale and Greenpeace released in 2015 estimated that 50-70 percent of fine dust was domestically sourced.


Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #826 on: March 09, 2019, 07:29:18 pm »
According to the preliminary Korea US-Air Quality (KORUS AQ) study, conducted by NASA and Koreaís National Institute of Environmental Research, about 52 percent of Koreaís fine dust particles and other airborne pollutants have domestic origins. China was the origin of some 34 percent of the particles, while 9 percent came from North Korea.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170719000994

A previous study by Yale and Greenpeace released in 2015 estimated that 50-70 percent of fine dust was domestically sourced.

Why people keep posting this study is baffling. It states right in the article that the study was done on days when China is not contributing to the fine dust.

Of course on the green and yellow days, more pollution is coming from domestic sources.

Again, if you seriously think the 150-200+ days are solely because of Koreaís own pollution, you donít understand how wind patterns or weather works.

Also, new article came out showing how China is building like 400 new coal plants


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #827 on: March 09, 2019, 07:54:36 pm »
It states right in the article that the study was done on days when China is not contributing to the fine dust.

That commentary was added by the Korean nationalist who wrote the article. You actually believe that? May is fine dust season.

I'm slightly more trusting of data from NASA, Yale, and Greenpeace than that put out by the Korean government. You're not?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

South Korea's state-run agencies have said pollutants coming from China are responsible for about 50 to 70 percent of the air pollution over the peninsula.

But China's foreign ministry has denied responsibility for fine dust over the Korean Peninsula, asking Seoul to produce scientific evidence.


http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190308000377


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #828 on: March 09, 2019, 08:05:49 pm »
Recent fine dust pollution in Seoul caused primarily by domestic pollution
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/828670.html


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #829 on: March 09, 2019, 08:12:39 pm »
Is China polluting too much? Yes!

Is South Korea polluting too much? Yes!

Is North Korea polluting too much? Yes!

All three are making a huge cloud of dust. Which travels / lingers at various times according to wind patterns / weather.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #830 on: March 09, 2019, 08:42:31 pm »
Professor Chang, director of the Air Quality Forecasting Center, estimated 60% of the fine dust here is produced domestically.

(Meaning the 40% is not just China, but the total contribution of many countries such as North Korea, Mongolia, etc.)

Blaming China for all of the pollution is just shifting the blame.

MOST of the pollution in South Korea was made in South Korea. Something should certainly be done to reduce that.

Complaining to North Korea, China, and Mongolia to stop polluting so much would be helpful, too, but that's just one part of the solution.


Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #831 on: March 09, 2019, 08:56:54 pm »
Recent fine dust pollution in Seoul caused primarily by domestic pollution
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/828670.html

Yes for a stretch of 3 days.

Quote
That commentary was added by the Korean nationalist who wrote the article. You actually believe that? May is fine dust season.

I'm slightly more trusting of data from NASA, Yale, and Greenpeace than that put out by the Korean government. You're not?

The "Korean nationalist" is just quoting what the study actually said:

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/10/10/552264719/armed-with-nasa-data-south-korea-confronts-its-choking-smog

"The big question vexing South Korea is how much of its pollution is homegrown versus carried over from neighboring countries. The answer is complicated.

NASA sampled the air at a time when trans-boundary pollution was low. It cautions it can only model the Korean peninsula's air based on the data gathered from its sampling. But its models did point to some interesting answers."

Can you explain why after a hellish week of pollution is the air suddenly now getting better and will continue getting better into next week? Has Korea suddenly stopped their power plants? Has everyone stopped driving?

Or, let's go with the most logical answer: The wind has shifted and is not carrying crap from China here.

PS I'm not denying Korea doesn't produce it's own pollution and should just blame China, but again, the bad days we had earlier this week cannot possibly be because of Korea.


  • macteacher
  • Expert Waygook

    • 679

    • September 03, 2012, 09:59:00 am
    • south korea
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #832 on: March 09, 2019, 08:59:37 pm »
There have been a few different studies that have placed 50%+ on local sources if iím remembering correctly. This same defense gets brought out on /r/korea, unless its a study that shows its 90% china then the study is Ďflawedí.

Weird that once this wind started picking up (from the west) that the pollution got better this week. But Iím not going to play that game because iím not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of climate. Climate science is a rough science at best and anyone trying to claim to be an expert on an online forum is full of it. If I had to loosely speculate based on pretty much nothing, Iíd say that changes in climate (something Iíve noticed in the 6+ years living here) has left the air more stagnant with possibly less precipitation ie less things to chase out the pollution. This past winter seemed a lot less windy than my first few years.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #833 on: March 09, 2019, 09:51:47 pm »
Can you explain why after a hellish week of pollution is the air suddenly now getting better and will continue getting better into next week?

You buy this?:
___________

China's firework displays responsible for South Korea's recent fine dust pollution, says agency

SEOUL (THE KOREA HERALD/ASIA NEWS NETWORK) - China's firework displays during the Lantern Festival and stagnant air over the Korean peninsula are the main culprits for the dangerously high levels of ultra-fine dust pollution in South Korea at the end of February, a Seoul City-run environment agency said on Wednesday (March 6).

"High density of ultra-fine dust continued recently because the weather condition caused air over the Korean peninsula to be stagnant and delayed diffusion of pollutants stemming within the country and from abroad," said Mr Shin Yong-seung of the Research Institute of Public Health and Environment.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/chinas-firework-displays-responsible-for-south-koreas-recent-fine-dust-pollution-says

More than 70 per cent of the responsibility lay with China when levels of ultra-fine dust were high in South Korea, and about 55 per cent on ordinary days, he added.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #834 on: March 09, 2019, 09:54:44 pm »
Where did the guy in that article get the 55-70% figure? Same place Trump gets his facts?

Incidentally, Seoul is 137 AQI now. Though better than before, that's not so great. 


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 3903

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #835 on: March 09, 2019, 11:52:49 pm »
AQI 37 in Saint John West today, just a few km from Canadaís largest oil refinery.


  • SanderB
  • Super Waygook

    • 409

    • June 02, 2018, 06:25:54 pm
    • Gouda cheese Be Best cheese
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #836 on: March 10, 2019, 02:58:10 am »
Exactly, this is the busiest harbour and Shell oil refinery, Tata Steel and Dow Chemical industrial city of Rotterdam, with SEVERE pollution warnings of ozone (80) but pm2.5 is always low and the government is concerned about Rotterdam's AQI.  ;D  Please note that Korea's green healthy score of +30 is considered unhealthy in Holland.



« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 03:02:04 am by SanderB »
Fiat voluntas tua- All that you want is allowed


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #837 on: March 10, 2019, 09:19:43 am »
Holland rocks!
_____________
Dutch residents make more than 25 percent of trips by bike Ė a higher proportion than any other country.

Yet the government thinks too few citizens are cycling to work. In fact, the infrastructure ministry is so keen to tackle lingering car dependence it is pushing a benefit scheme that allows commuters to get paid by businesses to travel by bike instead.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/netherlands-pays-bike-work-commute_n_5c6dc15ae4b0e2f4d8a23e3e

Commuting habits are really hard to shift. If you want to tempt people onto bikes, you have to think about the right kind of incentives. The lessons from Europe are clear: Money is a good motivator, but itís not the only one. Cycling has to be easy and enjoyable enough to get people thinking beyond their bank balance.



  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #838 on: March 10, 2019, 06:02:04 pm »
Also, new article came out showing how China is building like 400 new coal plants.

Disaster looms over Korea as China decides to build 464 coal power plants in the vicinity of the Korean peninsula

https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/az0twc/disaster_looms_over_korea_as_china_decides_to/

"China is also building another 227 new trash burning plants near the Korean peninsula, deliberately located to take advantage of the natural easterly winds, away from the major Chinese populations as much as possible.

https://www.insight.co.kr/news/214681

These plants are even more dangerous than the coal plants because they burn toxic chemicals into the atmosphere which will inevitably float towards us."


  • kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 5032

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #839 on: March 11, 2019, 08:55:55 am »
Holland rocks!
_____________
Dutch residents make more than 25 percent of trips by bike Ė a higher proportion than any other country.

Yet the government thinks too few citizens are cycling to work. In fact, the infrastructure ministry is so keen to tackle lingering car dependence it is pushing a benefit scheme that allows commuters to get paid by businesses to travel by bike instead.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/netherlands-pays-bike-work-commute_n_5c6dc15ae4b0e2f4d8a23e3e

Commuting habits are really hard to shift. If you want to tempt people onto bikes, you have to think about the right kind of incentives. The lessons from Europe are clear: Money is a good motivator, but itís not the only one. Cycling has to be easy and enjoyable enough to get people thinking beyond their bank balance.

Holland totally does rock, and not to take away from it's awesome rock... err... iness... but it does have a lot of natural advantages over Korea when it comes to cycling.

First off, it's flat as a board. There's a hill in Wageningen not too far from the university that can't be more than a couple dozen metres high, but all the locals refer to it as a mountain... in Korea they'd be plunking rice fields all over it.
   Its tradition of cycling is in part tied to the fact that much of the infrastructure predates automobiles: rather than building super highways through heritage sites, the government put in a lot of effort to prioritize bikes. In addition, during the 70's, there way a lot of citizen activism to protect and expand bike-only lanes. In contrast, South Korea was basically razed to the ground in the 50s and were ruled by a dictatorship, so it was a lot easier for the government here to just pave everything without really worrying too much about what the citizens wanted.

    Also, in the Netherlands, if you parked your car in the middle of a bike lane, it would be keyed to death, towed, keyed some more, and its owner fined all the way to bankruptcy. Which is as it should be.  >:(
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 09:25:19 am by kyndo »