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  • ESLTurtle
  • Super Waygook

    • 283

    • October 25, 2017, 07:58:46 pm
    • South Korea
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #520 on: May 02, 2018, 01:31:08 pm »
Yeah, I'd say it's pretty bad. I come from the land of clean air and smiles. Here, all I see is sh*tfaced facial expressions when the air quality is horrid and thick. I'm better off moving to the realm of Aries. Lest, I dare face exilment in the face of Odin.


  • kobayashi
  • Expert Waygook

    • 983

    • August 18, 2016, 11:14:47 am
    • Nibiru
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #521 on: May 02, 2018, 08:59:34 pm »

The latest thing of course is the indoor air cleaners, they seem quite satisfied with coming up with these, ok fine, but do you think these things run on fresh air?  It's just another thing to plug in, requires more energy, more power stations, more pollution etc etc the cycle continues. 


I was chatting to a friend (non-Korean) about the air pollution in Korea recently.   He said "Oh, I've got one of those air purifiers.  They're great.  I run it all the time".

I'm not sure whether it had occurred to him that it was an electrical appliance that was probably further contributing to the air pollution problem.

the amount of electricity those air purifiers use is absolutely miniscule. it's just a fan, really. i used to run mine 24/7 in korea and my electricity bill went up by a whopping 1-2,000 Won per month.


Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #522 on: May 03, 2018, 04:18:33 am »
Anyone who uses the term "fine dust" is part of the problem.
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM

    Trump is a liar and a con man.


  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1850

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #523 on: May 03, 2018, 07:30:25 am »

The latest thing of course is the indoor air cleaners, they seem quite satisfied with coming up with these, ok fine, but do you think these things run on fresh air?  It's just another thing to plug in, requires more energy, more power stations, more pollution etc etc the cycle continues. 


I was chatting to a friend (non-Korean) about the air pollution in Korea recently.   He said "Oh, I've got one of those air purifiers.  They're great.  I run it all the time".

I'm not sure whether it had occurred to him that it was an electrical appliance that was probably further contributing to the air pollution problem.

the amount of electricity those air purifiers use is absolutely miniscule. it's just a fan, really. i used to run mine 24/7 in korea and my electricity bill went up by a whopping 1-2,000 Won per month.
my air purifier says it costs 12000won a year, if left on all of the time


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #524 on: May 03, 2018, 07:56:15 am »
Quote
Experts say the removal of subsidies for electricity can lead to more renewable energy.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2013/06/328_138344.html


  • macteacher
  • Expert Waygook

    • 679

    • September 03, 2012, 09:59:00 am
    • south korea
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #525 on: May 03, 2018, 08:27:44 am »
i wish some conspiracy about the us army purposely making their manufacturing unregulated would appear and maybe there would be some nation wide protests for greener practices


  • jimskins
  • Adventurer

    • 55

    • July 02, 2014, 12:34:19 pm
    • Paju
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #526 on: May 03, 2018, 11:26:04 am »

The latest thing of course is the indoor air cleaners, they seem quite satisfied with coming up with these, ok fine, but do you think these things run on fresh air?  It's just another thing to plug in, requires more energy, more power stations, more pollution etc etc the cycle continues. 


I was chatting to a friend (non-Korean) about the air pollution in Korea recently.   He said "Oh, I've got one of those air purifiers.  They're great.  I run it all the time".

I'm not sure whether it had occurred to him that it was an electrical appliance that was probably further contributing to the air pollution problem.

the amount of electricity those air purifiers use is absolutely miniscule. it's just a fan, really. i used to run mine 24/7 in korea and my electricity bill went up by a whopping 1-2,000 Won per month.
my air purifier says it costs 12000won a year, if left on all of the time

I think you're both missing the point; also electricity is too cheap in Korea, so I'm guessing 1000-2000W is probably increasing your bill/energy usage by 10-15%, which is a lot more damaging to the environment than the tiny dent in your wallet implies.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #527 on: May 03, 2018, 11:53:38 am »
Correct.

"The majority of South Korea’s subsidies have been used for supporting coal production, and the largest subsidy went to the production of coal briquettes. This is related to South Korea’s energy market structure. In South Korea, major energy industries are still publicly owned. For example, Korea National Oil Corporation (KNOC) is responsible for exploration, development and production of oil and natural gas within and outside of the country as well as strategic reserves. Likewise, the coal industry is also largely dependent on state ownership."

https://www.odi.org/sites/odi.org.uk/files/odi-assets/publications-opinion-files/9984.pdf

"South Korea has the highest level of support for overseas coal power plant projects through export credit agencies among OECD countries."


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #528 on: May 03, 2018, 11:57:24 am »
"Korea’s electricity supply mix is dominated by fossil fuels. In 2013, electricity generation by source in Korea was 39% coal, 25% natural gas, 6% oil and 27% nuclear."


  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1850

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #529 on: May 03, 2018, 12:00:32 pm »
1. clearly the govt isn't going to fix this problem any time soon, and i'd rather not breath in more bad air than i have to

2. the electricity usage for air purifiers isn't going to make the smallest dent in the environmental pollution in korea

3. i'm not sure what your point is


  • Epistemology
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1904

    • September 19, 2010, 01:57:27 pm
    more
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #530 on: May 03, 2018, 12:04:10 pm »
I think his point is that air purifiers normalize the governments terrible response to the air crisis as being fine and acceptable because the citizenry can just mitigate it with technology.

When really, Koreans should be treating the whole lot of them to the PGH treatment for this environmental disaster of epic proportions.
Away an bile yer heid ya numpty,ye dinnae ken whit yer talkin aboot.


  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1850

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #531 on: May 03, 2018, 12:08:11 pm »
well of course, but by not buying one, i'm hardly protesting the govt's refusal to deal with the problem

still not sure why the general public doesn't get more irate about the level of pollution here


  • Epistemology
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1904

    • September 19, 2010, 01:57:27 pm
    more
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #532 on: May 03, 2018, 12:12:34 pm »
well of course, but by not buying one, i'm hardly protesting the govt's refusal to deal with the problem

still not sure why the general public doesn't get more irate about the level of pollution here

Because they only ever hear about PM 10 levels in the media, and get practically brainwashed by every single media outlet into believing that the choking smog that blankets half the country every single day is entirely the fault of China/Yellow dust.
Away an bile yer heid ya numpty,ye dinnae ken whit yer talkin aboot.


  • macteacher
  • Expert Waygook

    • 679

    • September 03, 2012, 09:59:00 am
    • south korea
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #533 on: May 03, 2018, 12:26:59 pm »
I think his point is that air purifiers normalize the governments terrible response to the air crisis as being fine and acceptable because the citizenry can just mitigate it with technology.

When really, Koreans should be treating the whole lot of them to the PGH treatment for this environmental disaster of epic proportions.

never going to happen anytime soon. pgh gained traction because it became this inexplicable conspiracy embarrassment. the banal societal reality that led to the sewol disaster is a much more real issue that happens everyday and everyone is responsible (lax safety rules etc). dealing with the pollution would mean coming to terms with polluting their own sacred ground.

look at how much traction the supposed usa military contamination of military bases get. there are protests in itaewan all the time. there’s even a movie about it tangentially (the host). koreans are blameless in their grand meta narrative


  • Kolao
  • Veteran

    • 201

    • July 04, 2017, 05:11:57 pm
    • South of Snow
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #534 on: May 03, 2018, 01:36:49 pm »
I was thinking the exact same thing today. I have an app that shows the level and it is over 200 today, that is a very unhealthy level.

I would like to say a very special **** YOU to China, stop polluting the rest of Asia.

I've lived and worked in China and Korea and Korea's air can't hold a candle to the sewage that China considers breathable oxygen.
When the wicked are confounded, and consigned to flames of woe, call me.


Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #535 on: May 03, 2018, 03:28:39 pm »
I was thinking the exact same thing today. I have an app that shows the level and it is over 200 today, that is a very unhealthy level.

I would like to say a very special **** YOU to China, stop polluting the rest of Asia.

I've lived and worked in China and Korea and Korea's air can't hold a candle to the sewage that China considers breathable oxygen.

At last someone with a bit of perspective. Looks like this guy emerged from Linfen or somewhere.


  • macteacher
  • Expert Waygook

    • 679

    • September 03, 2012, 09:59:00 am
    • south korea
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #536 on: May 04, 2018, 07:29:54 am »
I was thinking the exact same thing today. I have an app that shows the level and it is over 200 today, that is a very unhealthy level.

I would like to say a very special **** YOU to China, stop polluting the rest of Asia.

I've lived and worked in China and Korea and Korea's air can't hold a candle to the sewage that China considers breathable oxygen.

At last someone with a bit of perspective. Looks like this guy emerged from Linfen or somewhere.

china also supplies the world with everything so....


  • hangook77
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1018

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #537 on: May 04, 2018, 09:59:21 am »
I was thinking the exact same thing today. I have an app that shows the level and it is over 200 today, that is a very unhealthy level.

I would like to say a very special **** YOU to China, stop polluting the rest of Asia.

I've lived and worked in China and Korea and Korea's air can't hold a candle to the sewage that China considers breathable oxygen.

At last someone with a bit of perspective. Looks like this guy emerged from Linfen or somewhere.

china also supplies the world with everything so....

That's because the global warming idiots drove the jobs out of North America, where the companies could then go pollute freely.  They passed impossible regulations rather than work with the companies in question through benchmarking to reduce pollution.  So now the earth gets hit hard from Asia with pollution.  The Paris Climate Accord says China doesn't even have to reduce pollution until 2030.  You're not saving the earth by driving the jobs out of North America. 


  • kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 4943

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #538 on: May 04, 2018, 11:57:43 am »
That's because the global warming idiots drove the jobs out of North America, where the companies could then go pollute freely.  They passed impossible regulations rather than work with the companies in question through benchmarking to reduce pollution.  So now the earth gets hit hard from Asia with pollution.  The Paris Climate Accord says China doesn't even have to reduce pollution until 2030.  You're not saving the earth by driving the jobs out of North America.
     While none of this is technically untrue, it *is* reductio ad absurdum.
     Saying that jobs have shifted to China because of overly stringent environmental policies ignores all the other reasons, many of which are far more influential than said regs (ie: low wages, no ridiculously expensive pension and medical, far higher productivity and economies of scale, less automation).

   And anyway, whether or not moving jobs out of NA will save the Earth is debatable, but it certainly will make NA a heck of a lot nicer. Be honest: would you rather have massive environmental dead zones in North America or China?


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #539 on: May 05, 2018, 07:59:28 am »
You're not saving the earth by driving the jobs out of North America.

American unemployment is 3.9%. Wages are increasing faster than the rate of inflation and have been for a long, long time.

Globalization made the world richer, lifting billions out of poverty. But with that increased wealth came increased consumption (in the form of increased car ownership, increased electricity use, etc.)

America and other developed countries should serve as an example to the rest of the world of how is possible to be both economically prosperous and have clean air.

How to achieve this?

Make electricity from clean sources: sun, wind, and water. Not coal. (Did you know 25% of the worlds electricity is made from renewable resources? In Korea it's 1-2%.)

Have fuel efficiency standards to keep vehicles from polluting too much. Diesel, while cheaper, pollutes the air.

Put high grade filters on factory smokestacks.

Bottom line is don't cut corners to maximize profit. There should be a disincentive to do so. 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Quote
The Americas, principally the US and Canada, was the only region where a sizeable majority of people – 80% – breathe air that meets WHO guidelines on particulates. In Asia and the Middle East, the figure was close to zero.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/01/air-pollution-inequality-widens-between-rich-and-poor-nations