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  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Pollution blues
« Reply #180 on: February 17, 2017, 06:08:25 pm »
A lot of veterans from the 90's told me how terrible to the air use to be here.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170216000831

Quote
South Korea has nearly the worst air quality among advanced economies, with its level of fine dust soaring over the past 25 years
Quote
The study showed the dust problem grew worse in South Korea, while the OECD average had improved in the past 25 years.



  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #181 on: March 28, 2017, 05:10:51 pm »
Um, I think the kids coughing is just a cold.  For them, it's still cold and their bodies catch a cold.  Nothing more.  Air does tend to suck at this time of year because of yellow dust, allergens, and what I'm told is pine tree dust spawning out pollen from the mountains.  (Not sure if I believe that last one.) 

Anyhow, looking at the website someone else gave, Korea has never been in the triple digits.  It's air quality resembles that of Southern California or the GTA area of southern Ontario.  Just scroll over to North America to compare.  http://aqicn.org/map/southkorea/

Compared to 'Murica, 대한민국 looks terrible.  :cry:

http://aqicn.org/map/northamerica/#@g/37.8029/-93.252/5z

http://aqicn.org/map/southkorea/#@g/37.3982/127.3975/10z

The world's largest coal-fired power plant is in...

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Top_ten_largest_coal_plants_in_the_world

...South Korea.  :huh:

Only 70km from the capital city.

6th largest, 40km away; eighth largest, 90km away.

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_business/752626.html

Seoul: 167
http://aqicn.org/city/seoul/

Beijing: 151
http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/

Shanghai: 114
http://aqicn.org/city/shanghai

Los Angeles: 34
http://aqicn.org/city/losangeles/los-angeles-north-main-street/

NYC: 17
http://aqicn.org/city/newyork/

Toronto: 9
http://aqicn.org/city/toronto/


Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #182 on: March 29, 2017, 08:08:04 am »
It does seem to be getting worse here.  Was ok manageable many times of the year.  Late fall through winter to early spring, I do notice the trend of warmer days seeming to have higher pollution ratings.  So, colder days and rainy days are best during these times.  I think the underlying cold combined with the warmer air which creates a fog or different wind traps the garbage in as well as brings over whatever from China.  I also just recently found out that most of the coal plants are on the west coast.  Yeah, good idea.  Build them where the bulk of the population lives! 

Not sure what's going on?  Maybe Fukushima put them off on Nuclear.  Nuclear produces a lot of energy when running and doesn't pollute the air.  Wind and Solar technology is not yet efficient enough to take over the grid as of 2017 as much as their technology is improving.  I guess I'd take nuclear with extreme safe gaurds.  I'd be curious to find out whether or not they are building these anymore or have stopped. 

The air has always been bad in March into April and into late fall.  But the last year or two has seemed worse.  Well, boys, Korean girls might not find you rich or handsome.  But, they may just want to marry you to move somewhere with clean air.  Ha ha.  (Just work hard, save a ton of money, cause you're going to need it setting up back home.) 


Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #183 on: March 29, 2017, 08:31:37 am »
They're talking about the pollution more and more on the news lately, and not just during yellow dust season. I'm not sure if they're still shifting most of the blame on China, but it certainly doesn't seem to have become a "policy issue" yet. Yet it's hard to see how it wouldn't be; I just took a drive from Seoul to Namhae and we were enveloped in a white haze for nearly the entire trip. It's everywhere. When half the population can be found standing in front of their villa smoking at any given moment, perhaps air quality is never going to be a top priority. I always keep one of my screens conspicuously open to aqicn.org to broadcast as unannoyingly as possible the air quality of the moment (It's a "moderate" 85 right now.), but hard to really know if anyone else really cares. You'd hope a school would be one place where such issues would be of especially high concern given the disproportionate effect it has on children.  It's encouraging to see that some bus stops with an electronic displays now show the particulate matter level of the area.

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/06/03/478796463/koreas-air-is-dirty-but-its-not-all-close-neighbor-chinas-fault


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #184 on: March 29, 2017, 08:44:25 am »
Weigookin74, I feel you on that one. New York City, San Francisco, Toronto, Vancouver are great cities with really clean air...but...living there is so expensive. It's my dream to relocate to one of those places. But it's going to cost a lot as you said, so I'm saving up. Hmmm...maybe a job (the quality of the job and career opportunities) should take precedence over location...as long as the air is safe to breathe that is. There are many such places around the world.

To address what you wrote above, burning natural gas would result in cleaner air. But coal's cheaper, so coal it is. Profit over people. It's really sad.

_______________________________________

Substituting natural gas for coal has sharply reduced air pollutants from power generation in the United States.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/switch-to-natural-gas-slashes-power-plant-pollution/


  • kobayashi
  • Expert Waygook

    • 983

    • August 18, 2016, 11:14:47 am
    • Nibiru
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #185 on: March 29, 2017, 08:46:18 am »
read a news article recently in which the Korea Environmental Corporation was attributing 70-80% of the pollution to China.

they're not about to take responsibility for it any time soon.

don't you know? nothing bad about korea is the fault of koreans.


Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #186 on: March 29, 2017, 09:05:03 am »
(It's a "moderate" 85 right now.)

Up to 102 in the time you took to type that. In comparison, NYC is 8. Thirteen times as high in Seoul. That's crazy.

I'm looking at more local results in Gangnam-gu (http://aqicn.org/city/korea/seoul/gangnam-gu/) and it remains 85, not that 85 is all that 후레쉬, and not that a reading of 102 or more isn't often closer to the norm in this little corner of Seoul as well.

Maybe crazy. Certainly not healthy.

read a news article recently in which the Korea Environmental Corporation was attributing 70-80% of the pollution to China.

they're not about to take responsibility for it any time soon.

don't you know? nothing bad about korea is the fault of koreans.

I could see that being true on certain days with especially high readings, but you'd have to think that if you looked at the yearly average you'd find a more domestic culprit. But who knows; We'll have to wait for this NASA report! Still, a 30% reduction would be almost enough to change an "unhealthy" reading of 150 to a "moderate" reading of 100. Not that it would be possible to get these emissions down to zero any time soon.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 09:14:24 am by donovan »


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #187 on: March 29, 2017, 09:12:46 am »
China has been making efforts to tackle its air pollution and had planned to limit growth in coal energy use by 2021, the group said.

South Korea, on the other hand, had pledged to build a dozen more coal power plants by 2021 as part of its 14-year energy plan launched in 2013, according to South Korean news agency Yonhap News. The agency reported that South Korea currently has more than 50 coal plants.


www.ibtimes.com/smog-korea-coal-power-plants-not-china-are-major-culprits-says-greenpeace-1835638


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4310

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #188 on: March 29, 2017, 09:38:52 am »
Why is my hood always 2.5 times worse than the surrounding area? Sanbon, I hate you.
The joys of fauxtherhood


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1549

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #189 on: March 29, 2017, 09:51:01 am »
I've resigned myself to this fact of life. Best I can do is boost the crap out of my immune system:
No ciggies, no alcohol, lots of fruit and veggies, lots of water, exercise regularly.

We forget that the human body is probably the most remarkable and advanced organism ever, it can adapt to tolerate almost anything.


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4310

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #190 on: March 29, 2017, 10:27:26 am »
We forget that the human body is probably the most remarkable and advanced organism ever, it can adapt to tolerate almost anything.

Except being asked how old it is/being told 안녕.
The joys of fauxtherhood


Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #191 on: March 29, 2017, 10:55:58 am »
Why is my hood always 2.5 times worse than the surrounding area? Sanbon, I hate you.

Remember that not all of these monitors can measure for PM2.5, which can get into the bloodstream and drive up the indexes for those areas that have that capacity (see, Dang-dong). Although taking that into account it STILL looks like your area is a bit worse off (see, Anyang-6dong). :sad:

I've resigned myself to this fact of life. Best I can do is boost the crap out of my immune system:
No ciggies, no alcohol, lots of fruit and veggies, lots of water, exercise regularly.

We forget that the human body is probably the most remarkable and advanced organism ever, it can adapt to tolerate almost anything.

Advanced as it may be, it hasn't quite gained the sophistication of metabolizing high amounts of lead, mercury, or other industrial toxins. But all that stuff you mentioned is good, of course. On the other hand, I do wonder at what point I'm better off not exercising outside.

And it wouldn't have to be a fact of life if you decided it was so bad that you moved elsewhere, as the thread title muses.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 11:16:06 am by donovan »


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul


  • jimskins
  • Adventurer

    • 55

    • July 02, 2014, 12:34:19 pm
    • Paju
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #193 on: March 29, 2017, 11:19:37 am »
They finally did a special report on the state of the air on MBC the other night (although they didn't really say much).  So far (including today) 17 days in March have been either bad or very bad (at least one was 'worst'), and we haven't even finished the month yet.  To me that's pretty shocking.  I've been here 9 years and it's never been this severe.  I heard that they finally lowered the rating of a 'bad' day from 100 to 70 to make it more in line with the WHO guidelines. Some progress a least.   It was driving me crazy seeing the weather girl always saying "tomorrow the air quality is ok because the dust level is '보통' (normal) "  when it was in the 90s and unhealthy by international standards.  I almost get the impression that there is an unwrittten agreement not to cause concern among the citizens who might require the government to do something about it, as opposed to actually caring about their health. 

A fellow Brit left the country last month with his family because of this issue and it's really starting to get to me too.  Dodgy water, food etc you can avoid but you can't not breathe.  My 2 year old daughter and I have had bad coughs for a while and I hate to think it's because of this.  I've started wearing a mask on the 'bad' days. 

My (Korean) wife's view is "if you hate it then let's go to England, otherwise shut up about it."  I have a good job here and don't particularly want to go back home.  I don't know what the answer is.  But I am getting sick of going outside to play with my daughter in reality meaning a trip to the supermarket, kids cafe, mall or anywhere indoors to hide from the dust yet again.


  • macteacher
  • Expert Waygook

    • 679

    • September 03, 2012, 09:59:00 am
    • south korea
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #194 on: March 29, 2017, 11:24:46 am »


i noticed that one of my korean friends said that his app didn't report bad pollution. he screenshot it and sent me it. his app didn't seem to be reporting 2.5 which is often the one with the highest ratings.

makes me wonder if some koreans just aren't well informed about pollution in general


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1549

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #195 on: March 29, 2017, 11:44:26 am »
We forget that the human body is probably the most remarkable and advanced organism ever, it can adapt to tolerate almost anything.

Can it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Variation_over_time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/mar/25/air-pollution-single-biggest-environmental-health-risk-who

For every thing it can't tolerate, there are hundreds of things it can, hence the word "ALMOST".


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4310

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #196 on: March 29, 2017, 11:51:11 am »
For every thing it can't tolerate, there are hundreds of things it can, hence the word "ALMOST".

ALL OR NOTHING YOU TROGLODYTE


Obligatory /s because I've been warned for personally insulting users this way.

Calm down. hahahaha
The joys of fauxtherhood


Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #197 on: March 29, 2017, 11:58:27 am »
I know I would die in Beijing or Shanghai~ that's why I don't go there.
I had asthma as a child that's under control now, but can still act up when provoked, such as during yellow dust season. Just because it sucks worse somewhere else is little comfort. After being out of the country for a couple of weeks, my sinuses have cleared and my perma-cough is gone.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3179

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #198 on: March 29, 2017, 01:01:35 pm »
I also just recently found out that most of the coal plants are on the west coast.  Yeah, good idea.  Build them where the bulk of the population lives! 

Not sure what's going on?  Maybe Fukushima put them off on Nuclear.

Fossil-fuel -- especially coal-burning -- electric power plants are the worst polluters.

Reducing the amount of electricity generated from fossil-fuel plants is the most effective way to reduce pollution. Nuclear energy is one answer, but Korea already has difficulty storing nuclear waste. Building nuclear power plants is expensive and time consuming. Several earthquakes in 2016 raised fears about the security of existing nuclear power plants.


http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170327001025


Re: Air pollution - bad enough to leave Korea?
« Reply #199 on: March 29, 2017, 01:35:08 pm »
I know I would die in Beijing or Shanghai~ that's why I don't go there.
I had asthma as a child that's under control now, but can still act up when provoked, such as during yellow dust season. Just because it sucks worse somewhere else is little comfort. After being out of the country for a couple of weeks, my sinuses have cleared and my perma-cough is gone.

I also had asthma as a kid. I went to Seoul about 2 weeks ago and spent the day outside. The following few nights I would wake up in the middle of the night barely able to breathe and it felt like an asthma attack. I haven't experienced any of these symptoms in about 25 years. I had it as a kid and if I was around smokey places it caused breathing problems. I went a local clinic and explained to the doctor there about my issues, and if pollution was causing it. He just listened to my breathing and was listening for congestion, but when I have these attacks it's not a congested type of feeling. What are you doing about your situation? I'm going to buy an air purifier and face mask.