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  • Peekay1982
  • Expert Waygook

    • 613

    • October 04, 2010, 09:12:28 am
    • 부산
When  Japan colonized Korea years ago it was a poor farming colony and Japan helped to transform it into a modern country, if anything Korea should thank Japan..the  "Treaty of 1965" did happen and more Koreans should be educated about it!

I agree with confusedsaffer. That's taking it a bit far. I really don't think Koreans should "thank" or be grateful to Japan for subjecting them.

A bit far? This person is insane. The Japanese fled from a country they'd basically bankrupted with their benevolent plans for the Great East Asia Co-Prosperity sphere. The Russians in the north looted any industry which the Japanese hadn't taken with them or stripped. Korean was dirt-poor in 1945 - a railway system and some nice offices were not a sufficient trade-off for years decades of the most brutal exploitation. (Which began well before 1910, by the way.)

Absolutely disgusting the way some people try and justify the occupation.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
When  Japan colonized Korea years ago it was a poor farming colony and Japan helped to transform it into a modern country, if anything Korea should thank Japan.
:rolleyes: While Japan did modernize many aspects of Koera, I think that Korea would have happily remained an agricultural society for a few years longer as opposed to having thousands of its woman systematically raped, it's sons forced to serve in its subjugator's military, and its language and culture subsumed into that of its conqueror. ...and we won't even mention all the Dr. Frankensteinian 'science' projects that were conducted in Korea.

Also, I'm curious: as a Saffer, why do you have an U.S. debt counter in your signature? Seems kind of random. o.O


When  Japan colonized Korea years ago it was a poor farming colony and Japan helped to transform it into a modern country, if anything Korea should thank Japan..the  "Treaty of 1965" did happen and more Koreans should be educated about it!

I agree with confusedsaffer. That's taking it a bit far. I really don't think Koreans should "thank" or be grateful to Japan for subjecting them.

A bit far? This person is insane. The Japanese fled from a country they'd basically bankrupted with their benevolent plans for the Great East Asia Co-Prosperity sphere. The Russians in the north looted any industry which the Japanese hadn't taken with them or stripped. Korean was dirt-poor in 1945 - a railway system and some nice offices were not a sufficient trade-off for years decades of the most brutal exploitation. (Which began well before 1910, by the way.)

Absolutely disgusting the way some people try and justify the occupation.

No I definitely agree with you Peekay and on your earlier posts.  I wasn't trying to justify the occupation. I only was agreeing with that one point about Korea not having to be appreciative of Japan's invasion.  Poor wording on my part :lipsrsealed:.


  • Chadwickhhs
  • Expert Waygook

    • 797

    • February 28, 2012, 07:04:14 pm
    more
When making statements like those we can't really know what could have otherwise happened.

Korea may have gotten to the same place without Japanese pushed modernizations. It may not have (I guess we could try to compare it with Vietnam, Laus or Cambodia?). The same could be said of many conquerors of the past. The Romans brought road systems, metallurgy and aquatic piping where they went. Napoleon brought Romanticism and Enlightenment scholar concepts. Does that mean the conquered tribes were better for it in the long run? Hard to say, but those who were there probably would have rather not have had their homes burnt down and their gods erased from history.

Whining about being conquered is highlighting your previous incompetence in defending your citizenry. The outside world has no duty of care to the citizens of a nation. The greatest failure of a king, kingdom, or ruling class is to be conquered. Their privileged status was granted by the public consensus and entrusted on the promise that in exchange they were responsible for maintaining order and security. It's silly to glorify the Joseon Dynasty that enjoyed for 500 years of waiting with its pants down for a superior power to sucker punch it.

In PR persuasion techniques we're taught that to protect a sight of weakness we can spin it and create assumptions of sanctity to prevent scrutiny (kind of like conservatives do with the claim of liberal bias). I have to wonder if Korea's nostalgia of Joseon was intentionally manufactured to prevent the Korean public from allocating blame to the Korean culture for failing to protect them which was their only job.


When  Japan colonized Korea years ago it was a poor farming colony and Japan helped to transform it into a modern country, if anything Korea should thank Japan..the  "Treaty of 1965" did happen and more Koreans should be educated about it!

That's rather insensitive to the whole scheme of events.  While it's true that Japan helped modernize Korea to a small extent, it's only because they were in their minds creating a new Japan.  After the war, Korea was a still a mainly agricultural society, so while Japan may have set a few infrastructure balls rolling, it still doesn't account for a vast majority of Korea rapid modernizations.  You can also take into account that much of what the Japanese built in Korea during the colonization was essentially laid to ruin during the Korean war, so in the end the only real memory of Japan was oppression and terror. 

P.S. On a side note, while I don't hate you for your opinion, I would just caution you using that sort of sentiment offline with Koreans older than 40.  Other than that, the vast majority of younger Koreans don't give a crap, myself included.  :P


  • Chadwickhhs
  • Expert Waygook

    • 797

    • February 28, 2012, 07:04:14 pm
    more

After the war, Korea was a still a mainly agricultural society, so while Japan may have set a few infrastructure balls rolling, it still doesn't account for a vast majority of Korea rapid modernizations. 
This too is a very fair point. It's easy to underestimate the massive national damage that occurred as a result of the Korean war. Very little remained intact. Seoul was leveled twice and everything from Incheon to Busan had been shelled and trenched.

Had Japan won the Second World War the modernizations they pushed may have paid off but because they didn't... they didn't. It's an interesting inquiry what the world would be like if the Axis powers won. But it's not a very fruitful discussion to be had outside purely intellectual/nonjudgmental speculation.


  • minamteacher
  • Expert Waygook

    • 728

    • October 05, 2010, 07:55:14 am
    • Incheon
    more
Wasn't this tread about 'The Korean Zombie' and the 'Rising Sun' symbol? This topic has clearly gone off the rails. Also, the issue of the benefits of colonization for the colonized people is a very sensitive topic and is basically a useless argument because Koreans have an extremely negative view of the colonial period (for obvious reasons). Finally, for all those who say "they should thank Japan for colonization" and "just get over it," good luck making this argument outside of the safety of a foreign expat website. Sometimes I think posters here don't have a firm grasp on the reality of the world they live in.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
This too is a very fair point. It's easy to underestimate the massive national damage that occurred as a result of the Korean war. Very little remained intact.

This is definitely true, but one could argue that one of the lasting changes that Imperial Japan forced onto Korea would be social changes: it was through Japanese influence that Korea changed from feudal land ownership to the more modern land rights system. There were also massive bureaucratic, educational, and social reforms during the colonial period.

It's true that much of the physical infrastructure that Japan implemented was destroyed, but I think that the most important and enduring thing that Japan brought was the idea of modernization -- that the way things have been done for the previous 500 years were not necessarily the best way of doing things.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 11:23:07 am by kyndo »


  • Peekay1982
  • Expert Waygook

    • 613

    • October 04, 2010, 09:12:28 am
    • 부산
When  Japan colonized Korea years ago it was a poor farming colony and Japan helped to transform it into a modern country, if anything Korea should thank Japan..the  "Treaty of 1965" did happen and more Koreans should be educated about it!

I agree with confusedsaffer. That's taking it a bit far. I really don't think Koreans should "thank" or be grateful to Japan for subjecting them.

A bit far? This person is insane. The Japanese fled from a country they'd basically bankrupted with their benevolent plans for the Great East Asia Co-Prosperity sphere. The Russians in the north looted any industry which the Japanese hadn't taken with them or stripped. Korean was dirt-poor in 1945 - a railway system and some nice offices were not a sufficient trade-off for years decades of the most brutal exploitation. (Which began well before 1910, by the way.)

Absolutely disgusting the way some people try and justify the occupation.

No I definitely agree with you Peekay and on your earlier posts.  I wasn't trying to justify the occupation. I only was agreeing with that one point about Korea not having to be appreciative of Japan's invasion.  Poor wording on my part :lipsrsealed:.

I was saying that this Grajoker joker is insane! She is crazy girl ~^^


  • Peekay1982
  • Expert Waygook

    • 613

    • October 04, 2010, 09:12:28 am
    • 부산
This too is a very fair point. It's easy to underestimate the massive national damage that occurred as a result of the Korean war. Very little remained intact.

This is definitely true, but one could argue that one of the lasting changes that Imperial Japan forced onto Korea would be social changes: it was through Japanese influence that Korea changed from feudal land ownership to the more modern land rights system. There were also massive bureaucratic, educational, and social reforms during the colonial period.

Very very debatable. The Japanese casatral survey of 1910 - 1919 strengthened a more "modern" land rights and title system (one was already in existence, but the Japanese brought in the resources to fully complete a nationwide survey - King Gojong's government had begun their own survey in the last years of the Joseon era, and it was technically proficient and rigorous, but the administration ran out of money before it could be finished). The only reason they did the survey and gave title to Korean landowners was to create a positive legal environment for Japanese investors. It certainly wasn't in the interests of ensuring Koreans had correct title to their lands. The 1910 survey was more or less fair in itself, but they began confiscating/nationalising land in the 1930s. Also, all the Joseon state's crown lands were taken by the colonial administration in 1908 - land which should have been used to benefit the Korean people but did nothing of the sort under the Japanese. (Of course, the Korean royals had only been interested in feathering their own nests too - lots of minor royals made killings by selling their land to Japanese speculators pre-1908).

It's true that much of the physical infrastructure that Japan implemented was destroyed, but I think that the most important and enduring thing that Japan brought was the idea of modernization -- that the way things have been done for the previous 500 years were not necessarily the best way of doing things.

This is very dodgy ground. Your idea of modernisation and modernity doesn't justify - never justifies - subjugation and oppression. Very western-centric view.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
It was through Japanese influence that Korea changed from feudal land ownership to the more modern land rights system
Very very debatable... The only reason they did the survey and gave title to Korean landowners was to create a positive legal environment for Japanese investors. It certainly wasn't in the interests of ensuring Koreans had correct title to their lands.
Good God, I wasn't trying to say that the Japanese administration was beneficial, or benevolent, or anything at all like that! There's no argument that it was brutally oppressive and entirely done to harvest resources and funnel them into the heart of Imperial Japan -- probably in preparation for their subsequent expansion into China and points south.

It's true that much of the physical infrastructure that Japan implemented was destroyed, but I think that the most important and enduring thing that Japan brought was the idea of modernization -- that the way things have been done for the previous 500 years were not necessarily the best way of doing things.
This is very dodgy ground. Your idea of modernisation and modernity doesn't justify - never justifies - subjugation and oppression. Very western-centric view.
Honestly, I never anywhere mentioned anything about ends justifying means. They don't -- it's incredibly obvious that they don't. I was just noting that the Japanese occupation brought around more lasting social change than physical change.
It's almost offensive how badly my comment was misinterpreted. :cry:


  • Peekay1982
  • Expert Waygook

    • 613

    • October 04, 2010, 09:12:28 am
    • 부산
It was through Japanese influence that Korea changed from feudal land ownership to the more modern land rights system
Very very debatable... The only reason they did the survey and gave title to Korean landowners was to create a positive legal environment for Japanese investors. It certainly wasn't in the interests of ensuring Koreans had correct title to their lands.
Good God, I wasn't trying to say that the Japanese administration was beneficial, or benevolent, or anything at all like that! There's no argument that it was brutally oppressive and entirely done to harvest resources and funnel them into the heart of Imperial Japan -- probably in preparation for their subsequent expansion into China and points south.

It's true that much of the physical infrastructure that Japan implemented was destroyed, but I think that the most important and enduring thing that Japan brought was the idea of modernization -- that the way things have been done for the previous 500 years were not necessarily the best way of doing things.
This is very dodgy ground. Your idea of modernisation and modernity doesn't justify - never justifies - subjugation and oppression. Very western-centric view.
Honestly, I never anywhere mentioned anything about ends justifying means. They don't -- it's incredibly obvious that they don't. I was just noting that the Japanese occupation brought around more lasting social change than physical change.
It's almost offensive how badly my comment was misinterpreted. :cry:

미안. I'm getting you mixed in with all the colonial cheerleaders in this thread.


  • rocketeerjoe
  • Expert Waygook

    • 769

    • March 08, 2012, 07:52:35 am
    • Jinhae, South Korea
When  Japan colonized Korea years ago it was a poor farming colony and Japan helped to transform it into a modern country, if anything Korea should thank Japan..the  "Treaty of 1965" did happen and more Koreans should be educated about it!

How much do you know about the history of this country?  :shocked:

Japan colonized an independent country by invading it. Twice. Once while trying to invade China, killing almost 2 million people in a near genocide and again in the 20th century, where they nearly enslaved most of the people, with a very organized attempt to stamp out the local language entirely, and uprisings tried to overthrow them for decades due to the fact they basically gave little back for the economic benefit of colonization. Any dissent was usually met with extreme retaliation.

I agree they should get over it because Japan is a totally different country now, but their enmity is rooted in past atrocity. Asking them to be grateful for colonization? Should the Zulu people thank the British for what they brought? How about the Comanches? The Aborigines of Australia?
"If you want to change your direction. If your time of life is at hand. Well, then don't be the rule, be the exception. A good place to start is to stand. Just put one foot in front of the other." - Rankin Bass Santa Claus


When  Japan colonized Korea years ago it was a poor farming colony and Japan helped to transform it into a modern country, if anything Korea should thank Japan..the  "Treaty of 1965" did happen and more Koreans should be educated about it!

How much do you know about the history of this country?  :shocked:

Japan colonized an independent country by invading it. Twice. Once while trying to invade China, killing almost 2 million people in a near genocide and again in the 20th century, where they nearly enslaved most of the people, with a very organized attempt to stamp out the local language entirely, and uprisings tried to overthrow them for decades due to the fact they basically gave little back for the economic benefit of colonization. Any dissent was usually met with extreme retaliation.

I agree they should get over it because Japan is a totally different country now, but their enmity is rooted in past atrocity. Asking them to be grateful for colonization? Should the Zulu people thank the British for what they brought? How about the Comanches? The Aborigines of Australia?

Aside from the heinous comparisons you mention, almost all of it was burned down in the Korean War anyway.