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Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« on: March 22, 2011, 07:48:41 am »
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« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 12:03:49 am by patch83 »


  • Ectofuego
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    • November 02, 2010, 09:21:10 am
    • Mars
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2011, 07:58:37 am »
you have to be a polite stickler about your contract when it comes to lunch.  Sometimes they try to get you to do things and it depends if you feel you need that time. 
Maybe they were "giving" you the library for lunch as a place to eat. Maybe it was not considered rude in their mind, they just needed a place to know where you were.  Continue to do as you please for lunch, they can't take that time away from you contractually.  I have taught short lessons during lunch but that was only at the students request so they could practice their lines for drama and I let them speak as I ate so I didnt really lose my time on it.

Just keep in mind, some schools will push at you a little on the contract to see if you will budge.  If you do, they take that ground and push a little more some where else. 
I'm Jason and I approve this message!


  • Sara
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    • September 01, 2010, 08:58:35 am
    • Chungcheongbukdo
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 08:02:07 am »
I had a similar situation, where I was asked to oversee a study hall for 1 1/2 hours, twice a week. I considered this teaching, but my school did not. I had to contact the provincial office of education and have them say it counted as teaching before my school would take me seriously. You need to get an official's help on this one. Best of luck.


  • jonpurdy
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    • March 10, 2010, 01:42:50 pm
    • Ulsan
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 08:03:48 am »
Is your office in the library? If so, can you work there quietly on lesson plans and such? If so, that's not overtime.

However, if you're sitting there expected to interact with students and converse with them then I consider that overtime teaching.


  • Janitor
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    • June 14, 2010, 02:01:32 pm
    • Ulsan
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2011, 08:05:16 am »
I was in this same situation and the "4 hours of bs contract filler" actually saved me a lot of money. I have the exact same schedule and last year I didn't have to do an afterschool course during the 2nd semester. So then the MOE decided to check up on a few of the teachers in there area to see if they were doing their full 22 hours a week.

They said that I wasn't and there for the money that I made from my afterschool program would have to be paid back. They wanted me to pay almost 2 mil back because I wasn't working enough hours. At first they even considered the "4 hours of BS" to be exactly that... BS.

Thankfully we produced documents that proved otherwise and I ended up not paying anything, it was a close call. So the lesson learned was that the MOE takes the 22 hours seriously and you time at lunch and afterschool is not really that serious.

For me I just sit at my desk and make sure that the students are quiet and don't destroy the place. I also put on some music for them or a movie because I am in my English zone.


  • juskajo
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    • October 02, 2010, 09:28:20 am
    • Asan
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 08:10:19 am »
so any "interaction" with the students is "teaching"?  i used to do this.  i would just have my after-lunch coffee in the language lab, while the kids and i watched youtube videos or played games.  i had no idea i was being so cruelly exploited.   guess i better head back to that school immediately to demand my overtime pay.

you're not being asked to stay late.  you don't eat lunch in the cafeteria anyway.  it won't be all that busy since the kids are, you know, at lunch. 

also, those "bs contract filler" classes is, like, you know, your contract.  would you rather they just cut those 4 hours from your paycheck instead?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 08:59:31 am by juskajo »


  • Ley_Druid
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    • February 17, 2011, 08:36:33 am
    • Shinan-Gun, Jeollanam-Do, South Korea
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 08:12:35 am »
I had a similar situation, where I was asked to oversee a study hall for 1 1/2 hours, twice a week. I considered this teaching, but my school did not. I had to contact the provincial office of education and have them say it counted as teaching before my school would take me seriously. You need to get an official's help on this one. Best of luck.

Yeppp, and if they keep going, you need to remind them that you are "NOT A TEACHER" according to your contract and your visa, if you are here on an E-2 (which states that you are a 'teacher's assistant'). Tell them that you are a contract employee and stick up for yourself. You didn't go to the same kind of school they did. How can you be expected to do things that they do?


  • Nemo
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    • September 01, 2010, 08:55:46 am
    • Ansan, South Korea
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2011, 08:54:16 am »
so any "interaction" with the students is "teaching"?  i used to do this.  i would just have my after-lunch coffee in the language lab, while the kids and i watched youtube videos or played games.  i had no idea i was being so cruelly exploited.  i'm guess i better head back to that school immediately to demand my overtime pay.

you're not being asked to stay late.  you don't eat lunch in the cafeteria anyway.  it won't be all that busy since the kids are, you know, at lunch. 

also, those "bs contract filler" classes is, like, you know, your contract.  would you rather they just cut those 4 hours from your paycheck instead?

Maybe you had time to play around with your kids, maybe he doesn't have the luxury. And it sounds like he has 32 hours a week now, as he said and isn't being paid overtime so it looks like they owe him money not the other way around.


  • jimmyjamison
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    • November 23, 2010, 07:23:21 pm
    • Ulsan, South Korea
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2011, 09:36:50 am »
I dont understand the problem. Why is being in the library such a big deal? Will you have a computer in the library? Why is it so important to be in your English Zone? Can't you do all your lessons and extra discipline in the library?

Why is it so important that you eat your lunch in the English Zone? Your lunch period hasn't been taken away. You can still straighten up your classroom and then go eat in the library. I know it is crazy and inconvenient, but I personally don't see this being a big issue.

So do you do any work in your English Zone between classes? after your last class is over for the day? What are your library duties? If you are just expected to sit there, I dont think you should be receiving overtime pay. You would just be sitting in your English room.

I am hesitant to respond to this because you still dont know anything about your responsibilities in the library, but I dont think you should freak out about it yet (I dont think you are btw). Be happy you have an English Zone. My school won't let me use mine because the teacher before me never left the place. He holed up in there from 830am-430pm, and only saw the English teachers when they showed up to co-teach for him. Maybe the Korean teachers are resentful that you do not eat with them. Can you blame them? My teachers sit me in the middle of the teachers' room, so all the teachers can talk to me. Personally, it is a pain in the butt sometimes, but it is quite nice. We have "tea time," and joke around. I am jealous that you get to spend that extra time with your students, but couldn't they just come visit you in the library?

Best of luck with your situation.



  • Janitor
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    • June 14, 2010, 02:01:32 pm
    • Ulsan
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2011, 10:10:16 am »
I was in this same situation and the "4 hours of bs contract filler" actually saved me a lot of money. I have the exact same schedule and last year I didn't have to do an afterschool course during the 2nd semester. So then the MOE decided to check up on a few of the teachers in there area to see if they were doing their full 22 hours a week.

They said that I wasn't and there for the money that I made from my afterschool program would have to be paid back. They wanted me to pay almost 2 mil back because I wasn't working enough hours. At first they even considered the "4 hours of BS" to be exactly that... BS.

Thankfully we produced documents that proved otherwise and I ended up not paying anything, it was a close call. So the lesson learned was that the MOE takes the 22 hours seriously and you time at lunch and afterschool is not really that serious.

For me I just sit at my desk and make sure that the students are quiet and don't destroy the place. I also put on some music for them or a movie because I am in my English zone.

I'm currently terrified by what you've just said. I only teach 20 hours of school a week, plus 5 hours of after school classes (for which I'm paid 35,000 / hour). Are you saying it's a possibility that the MOE might say that only 3 of those hours count as after school pay?

Yup it could happen. However, if they have no reason to check up they won't. I was fine but we decided to ask if I could work at another school's afterschool camp because they didn't have a teacher willing to work the hours. That caused a bit of a sh*t storm and that was when they started checking into my hours. That was also when I found out that they were looking into other teachers as well.

As for the OP just sit and relax. They are not asking you to teach anything are they? My lunch times were great. The students just relaxed and we talked a bit and that was it. If I was busy with lesson planning, I had helpers to control the students and clean up the room


  • juskajo
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    • October 02, 2010, 09:28:20 am
    • Asan
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2011, 10:18:09 am »
so any "interaction" with the students is "teaching"?  i used to do this.  i would just have my after-lunch coffee in the language lab, while the kids and i watched youtube videos or played games.  i had no idea i was being so cruelly exploited.  i'm guess i better head back to that school immediately to demand my overtime pay.

you're not being asked to stay late.  you don't eat lunch in the cafeteria anyway.  it won't be all that busy since the kids are, you know, at lunch. 

also, those "bs contract filler" classes is, like, you know, your contract.  would you rather they just cut those 4 hours from your paycheck instead?

Maybe you had time to play around with your kids, maybe he doesn't have the luxury. And it sounds like he has 32 hours a week now, as he said and isn't being paid overtime so it looks like they owe him money not the other way around.

if he's asked to create formal lesson plans and run an actual class, then yes, he's entitled to overtime, and his coordinator will back him up. 

if he's just working on the library's computer while students come and go, then he needs to get over it.  if anything, the students can help him figure out korean power point commands.

I'm currently terrified by what you've just said. I only teach 20 hours of school a week, plus 5 hours of after school classes (for which I'm paid 35,000 / hour). Are you saying it's a possibility that the MOE might say that only 3 of those hours count as after school pay?

are you sure your contract doesn't demand 20 hours?  if so, you're fine. 

if it says 22 hours, then yeah, maybe someone messed up.  if and when they figure it out, they might insist that you pay back whatever you "owe."  it's still early in the year, so you could get this clarified now to avoid future disputes.  then again, if you say nothing, there's always a good chance nobody will notice...   :-X


  • Janitor
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    • June 14, 2010, 02:01:32 pm
    • Ulsan
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2011, 10:22:00 am »

Quote
are you sure your contract doesn't demand 20 hours?  if so, you're fine. 

if it says 22 hours, then yeah, maybe someone messed up.  if and when they figure it out, they might insist that you pay back whatever you "owe."  it's still early in the year, so you could get this clarified now to avoid future disputes.  then again, if you say nothing, there's always a good chance nobody will notice...   :-X

actually the one that most people work sates that you may work "up to 22 hours" but I found that most places take that as you MUST work 22 hours but there is nothing in my contract that mentions a minimum amount of hours.


  • dwebsterlfc
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    • September 15, 2010, 10:24:21 am
    • Incheon, Korea
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2011, 10:37:42 am »
During your set hours of school you will be teaching a maximum of 22 hours. If it's less it's less good for you. If they ask you to work more than that it should be classed as over time. Also if you only work 20 hours of your 22 and then they ask you to work 2 hours out of your set school hours 9-5 for example then you should get over time for it.

If you're already working your 22 hours, they can't tell you to work any more with out paying you more.


  • jonpurdy
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    • March 10, 2010, 01:42:50 pm
    • Ulsan
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2011, 11:42:42 am »
so any "interaction" with the students is "teaching"?  i used to do this.  i would just have my after-lunch coffee in the language lab, while the kids and i watched youtube videos or played games.  i had no idea i was being so cruelly exploited.   guess i better head back to that school immediately to demand my overtime pay.

you're not being asked to stay late.  you don't eat lunch in the cafeteria anyway.  it won't be all that busy since the kids are, you know, at lunch. 

also, those "bs contract filler" classes is, like, you know, your contract.  would you rather they just cut those 4 hours from your paycheck instead?

I meant that FORCED interaction with students is overtime. Every teacher probably spends time with their kids outside of teaching hours voluntarily watching YouTube movies, playing games, or even just chatting. Of course this is fine. One of the joys of teaching is getting to know your students outside of regular class hours.

It's when you are required to be at a certain place teaching kids or babysitting kids that it is overtime.



Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2011, 11:54:05 am »
cowboyshirt:  if you have the same contract as most of us....then it says something like "maximum 22hrs".
anything MORE than this is overtime.

so if you teach 20 regular classes and 5 after school classes then you should be getting overtime pay for 3hrs a week....(2 of those afters school classes put you at your 22hrs, the extra 3hrs are overtime).

*i have been through this.  now that you know, i would highly recommend telling them and correcting it because they WILL realize the error at some point and you do need to pay it back. 

good luck!  :)


  • CellarDoor
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    • February 22, 2011, 04:25:08 pm
    • Tennessee, USA or Korea
Re: Does this sound like contract exploitation to you?
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2011, 11:58:52 am »
During your set hours of school you will be teaching a maximum of 22 hours. If it's less it's less good for you. If they ask you to work more than that it should be classed as over time. Also if you only work 20 hours of your 22 and then they ask you to work 2 hours out of your set school hours 9-5 for example then you should get over time for it.

If you're already working your 22 hours, they can't tell you to work any more with out paying you more.

Right now my school only has me teaching *15* hours per week (public high school) though they keep telling me I'll be teaching 3 teacher classes too starting next week (this is the second week I've been told this).  I'm pretty concerned about this because I'm afraid they'll make me pay back money since I have such a light schedule of teaching time.  I do need to review my contract. 

Should I be concerned?  (I'm already sort of upset/nervous since I'm GEPIK, and my payday is supposed to be the 17th, but I still haven't been paid for my first month.  Not that I've had to do a lot of work yet... Lots of desk warming, but I'm not sure the MOE wants to pay for desk-warming).  Since I've got a master's degree, I've got an automatic higher pay grade, but it feels like I'll be taking a forced pay cut due to low hours maybe.