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The writer is a professor of English at Seoul National University?  :rolleyes:

Who used a comedic television show as evidence for his sociological comparison of cultural family values. *head in hands*
So you think sitcoms are not used in "sociology"?

Well, get your head out of your hands (and the sand)--there are dozens, probably hundreds, of courses taught at the university level in the US treating the sitcom as sociological evidence.  Degree programs, even.

I am not going to attempt to defend the original article here, mainly because it is tedious even for the KH , but surely you noted the five or six caveats he put before making the point, right?

Thank Heavens people in other countries don't look at US TV and think that JR Ewing is a real guy.  Only instructors at SNU do that.  I'm also happy to know that no Americans at all think MASH is a realistic depiction of Korea.

Be careful before posters label you an apologist!


Fascinating, same old pro-Korea anti-Japanese drivel and the writer is narrow minded to the extreme. Constantly comparing Korea to the states, as if it's the only country worth comparing to. He also fails to take into account the fairly obvious, the U.S and most other 'western' countries are not homogeneous. Therefore, there are many different styles of parenting. TBBT is a TV show with exaggerated personalities, how can anyone take this guy seriously? This article has the rhetoric of an 8th graders' school essay.


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 3811

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
The writer is a professor of English at Seoul National University?  :rolleyes:

Who used a comedic television show as evidence for his sociological comparison of cultural family values. *head in hands*
So you think sitcoms are not used in "sociology"?

Well, get your head out of your hands (and the sand)--there are dozens, probably hundreds, of courses taught at the university level in the US treating the sitcom as sociological evidence.  Degree programs, even.

I am not going to attempt to defend the original article here, mainly because it is tedious even for the KH , but surely you noted the five or six caveats he put before making the point, right?

Thank Heavens people in other countries don't look at US TV and think that JR Ewing is a real guy.  Only instructors at SNU do that.  I'm also happy to know that no Americans at all think MASH is a realistic depiction of Korea.

Be careful before posters label you an apologist!


LOL - "I am not going to attempt to defend the original article here,"
Then don't. And you shouldn't be so rude - it takes away from your actual argument.

He didn't list any other kind of sociological evidence beyond his little small-minded experience. I doubt any sociological theorist, even of "film studies," would find his a legit piece of established evidence to base an argument on. You need a bit more than a couple episodes of some random TV show.
Rude?  You're a veteran here and you thiink I was being rude?

I didn't defend him, I pointed out that your criticism was not particularly valid, inasmuch as "sociologists" do look at popular culture like sitcoms in order to make judgments and comparisons. 

A more pointed criticism of the article might focus on Please Look After Mom, which is largely about a disaffected woman, estranged from her husband though they live together, and her secret life--a mother her children didn't really know. 

But to do that, you'd have to know what you're talking about. 


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 3811

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Wow. Lighten up. No one wants to get into a debate with you about an article that has nothing to do with "a mother her children didn't really know"
Well, you know, except to the extent that the article specifically states the novel "insightfully explores the meaning of 'mother' in Korean society."


Quote
I would hope many Korean mothers have personal lives

They don't. Everything they do is for their children. Which actually means everything they do for their children is to make the family look good, even at the child's expense. One reason I switched from hagwons to public schools was the mothers. They have nothing better to do than to show up to classes unannounced, watch distractingly through the window, and proceed to find things to complain to the owner about.
This is only some mothers, the ones he likes. Lots of Korean mothers aren't so competitive, but yeah definitely more than Americans on average or in general.
I'll agree the overbearing parents don't have personal lives to the same extent that normal parents do, but the guy is making generalized statements about Koreans, too. The point I was trying to make is that when he says American mothers won't forgo their personal lives he is implying that this is a difference and Korea mothers forgo their personal lives. This is obviously not true, and Korean mothers should be offended by this guy. He makes Korean mothers look like slaves for their children and he thinks that Korea should be known for this and proud of this. The weird thing is some of them are proud. They don't score very high on global gender equality indexes, values like these are probably a reason. It's not surprising when they think ideal women should be mothers who should be slaves to their children and ideally want to treat them like baby making parenting machines. It's probably also a reason for a low birthrate. They value pregnancy so high, the sick and elderly must forfeit their seats to anyone looking pregnant and they have an additional 6 or so seats in the middle per train for them, just a little overkill? Yet, they can't convince people to get pregnant and raise kids because frankly raising a child here is too expensive both socially and economically. Given this guy's sexist opinion of what a mother should be like, no kidding.
Quit your job, give up your social life, forget your parents bought you an education, become a homemaker and a mother.
Why doesn't he mention the ideal dad, or can it be summed up by the word ATM which being a man he obviously woudl see such a shallow view as sexist, but misses the point when dealing with women? It's a very sick portrayal of society that he is praising.
The cost of being an overbearing mother is giving up your social life and spending too much money on your children. He is so out of touch with reality that he belongs firmly in the Joseon Dynasty, slapping people who are committing social faux-pas.


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 3811

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Wow. Lighten up. No one wants to get into a debate with you about an article that has nothing to do with "a mother her children didn't really know"
Well, you know, except to the extent that the article specifically states the novel "insightfully explores the meaning of 'mother' in Korean society."

But the article isn't about the novel.
No, except to the extent that the article specifically states that the novel "insightfully explores the meaning of 'mother' in Korean society" and the article is an exploration of the meaning of motherhood in Korean society. I guess the fact that the author spends two grafs on the book is completely irrelevant.

However, his reference to Big Bang Theory is the real subject of the article and the only thing we should talk about.


  • Munwon
  • Veteran

    • 117

    • February 23, 2011, 09:55:36 pm
    • pusan
That article sounds like it was written by a 10 year old.


And yet all these "loving" Korean mothers stand in line to send their kids to foreign universities that are staffed by all those "less loved" children. Korea: where fantasy is reality.


  • rocketeerjoe
  • Expert Waygook

    • 769

    • March 08, 2012, 07:52:35 am
    • Jinhae, South Korea
Funny how they forgot about the Korean mothers who love their children so much they give them up for adoption when they get a divorce, to help them marry a second husband faster. (oh yeah, that does happen...I've had friends who have volunteered at orphanages who have heard this from the employees there).

Also, all those selfish mothers in America that took Korean orphans into their homes during and after the Korean war.
"If you want to change your direction. If your time of life is at hand. Well, then don't be the rule, be the exception. A good place to start is to stand. Just put one foot in front of the other." - Rankin Bass Santa Claus


  • BloosCorn
  • Veteran

    • 196

    • August 31, 2012, 08:04:13 am
    • Yecheon, South Korea
Oh dear... the point that irks me is that he points out that the woman on the W50000 bill is evidence that mothers are important to Koreans.

Women lost assloads of rights and power under the Joseon dynasty. The woman on the W50000 bill, Shin Saim Dang, was chosen because she was a dutiful wife. Women in her position fulfilled a very oppressive societal role. Hell, in the event that her husband died, a woman's son would become the head of the household and she would be subserviant to him. If she tried to remarry, her kids would get thrown under the bus and be ineligible for civil service jobs.

This is not a good example of love for Korean mothers.


  • Peekay1982
  • Expert Waygook

    • 613

    • October 04, 2010, 09:12:28 am
    • 부산
Oh dear... the point that irks me is that he points out that the woman on the W50000 bill is evidence that mothers are important to Koreans.

Women lost assloads of rights and power under the Joseon dynasty. The woman on the W50000 bill, Shin Saim Dang, was chosen because she was a dutiful wife. Women in her position fulfilled a very oppressive societal role. Hell, in the event that her husband died, a woman's son would become the head of the household and she would be subserviant to him. If she tried to remarry, her kids would get thrown under the bus and be ineligible for civil service jobs.

This is not a good example of love for Korean mothers.

I thought she was chosen because she was known to have been an extremely dedicated scholar. She was Yul Gok's mother - the chap on the ₩5,000 note. A co-teacher told me that she taught him herself and that her own father was a revered Confucian scholar who thought that his daughter needed the same education as men.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 08:06:13 am by Peekay1982 »


  • lazycat
  • Adventurer

    • 62

    • September 02, 2013, 11:28:03 am
    • Pyeongtaek
Quote
Why doesn't he mention the ideal dad, or can it be summed up by the word ATM which being a man he obviously woudl see such a shallow view as sexist, but misses the point when dealing with women? It's a very sick portrayal of society that he is praising.

yea i was thinking about that - why doesnt he discuss the loving selfless fathers in korean families? why only stress the womans role in raising kids? it does seem extremely sexist.


For the record, I don't have a problem with Korean mothers or think they're better/less than other mothers. I just thought the guy's writing was crap. I don't appreciate this kind of thinking that says one group can't be good unless they're proving another group is bad. It's the same thinking that makes my friends angry when I say I like Japanese food, as if that automatically deducts points from Korean food. :huh:


  • 제이
  • Super Waygook

    • 287

    • October 19, 2011, 12:43:22 pm
    • Suwon, Gyeonggi-do
    more
From what I've seen, it's giving people the pretense that they are completely self-sacrificing and all-caring that is most important to Korean mothers.


My favorite ones were:

This guy's just trying to bash other cultures that are different. Besides, everyone knows that Korean mothers are the least-loving, craziest, prestige-hungry wannabes out there.

and

Let's not be rude. This guy is obviously the most narrow-minded idiot who can't write an essay to save his life. How did he become the professor at the best college in Korea?
But I'm not a marine biologist....


Korean moms are so protective that they won't let their kids learn to swim because they might drown, then they drive 100kph down the expressway with their kids bouncing around in the front seat with no seatbelt.



  • asl1174
  • Adventurer

    • 60

    • April 05, 2012, 09:48:45 pm
    • Haenam, South Korea
That American mother who sent her kids to bed 8 probably spent all day driving them around, cleaning and cooking too.  Is it selfish to have well rested children and a little quiet time on the side?


My American mom loves me so much that she taught me things like cooking for myself, cleaning, and how to do laundry, hold a job etc... Oh she raised me to be an adult, that's what it's called. :)


My favorite ones were:

This guy's just trying to bash other cultures that are different. Besides, everyone knows that Korean mothers are the least-loving, craziest, prestige-hungry wannabes out there.

and

Let's not be rude. This guy is obviously the most narrow-minded idiot who can't write an essay to save his life. How did he become the professor at the best college in Korea?

Daddy's got connections...


  • XiaoYan
  • Waygookin

    • 14

    • March 04, 2013, 10:44:06 am
    • South Korea
Well that is a fine piece of scholarly work there.

Obviously this professor is not an anthropologist.


  • Redondo
  • Expert Waygook

    • 642

    • October 14, 2012, 05:28:11 am
    • toronto
This article just kept getting worse and worse...First it compared Korea to China and Japan--normal, perhaps expected of a Korean news article. Then it went on to talk about Korean mothers...Well everyone has a mother, but so what? So the mother is on a dollar bill. Makes sense, it is kind of unusual.

And that's when all the nonsense began, the rest of the article is epitomized by using the big bang theory as a window into american (and indeed western or foreign) society.

It's clear what this is...It is passed off easily because of how low the standard for english is in this country.  I don't doubt that Korean articles can be just as or more convoluted, but in this case it's not backed up by anything and is just poorly written. The gold standard for this publication seems to be correct grammar and reasonably well flowing english.

I think their might be a little substance in that the mother symbolizes more in modern Korea than it does in other countries, but that likely has more to do with it being a conservative society that places high importance on family values rather than the historical aspect the author tried to lead on with.