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Work ethic
« on: January 18, 2013, 12:12:45 am »
http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2013/01/16/verizon-finds-developer-outsourced-his-work-to-china-so-he-could-surf-reddit-and-watch-cat-videos/

The article is related.

I'm honestly not sure what to make of this. I know for a fact that some people here will probably think it's great, but I can't see how someone could possibly feel good about themselves for getting paid to do absolutely nothing all day long (cue irony from people who don't think ESL involves doing something-- save it, please). And that's what he did-- nothing. He didn't even do anything interesting, like improve himself or learn a language, etc.-- he watched cat videos on youtube, while proving that his company should have just saved themselves money and outsourced to China to begin with. What a complete and utter waste.

I do spend a lot of time online but usually I'm multitasking-- when I was in advertising it was actually a big help to take your mind off of what you were doing and sometimes the big idea would just spontaneously come to you in the middle of something else.

But this isn't even that-- there's no endgame here. The only thing he gained here was a sense that he beat a company that trusted him to actually do his job. He's a con artist. Looking at the comments on the article, it seems like people seem to think that this is a good thing.

Is this what people nowadays aspire to be?

Serious question.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 12:24:11 am by hilarity ensues »


  • septeacher
  • Veteran

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    • September 11, 2012, 08:17:52 am
    • Incheon, South Korea
Re: Work ethic
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 07:40:26 am »
Personally I approve of getting the job done in whatever method possible,

However,

I think he's going to **** up jobs for a lot of people in the future, and because of this, I don't approve.

Other than Job security, it seems fine to me. People that take advantage of others come out ahead in the world.


  • MWeb37
  • Super Waygook

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    • February 11, 2012, 10:24:08 am
Re: Work ethic
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2013, 08:02:17 am »
He sounds like upper management material to me.


  • grezbob
  • Veteran

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    • August 28, 2012, 02:26:17 pm
    • Daegu
Re: Work ethic
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2013, 08:04:58 am »
If you view work purely as a means to make as much money as possible then this makes sense. For me, however, conducting the main activity of my working life (8 hours a day, 5 days a week for about 45 years) with only money on  my mind would make me incredibly depressed.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 08:50:46 am by grezbob »


  • Jrong
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Re: Work ethic
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2013, 09:36:03 am »
He sounds like upper management material to me.

Yes, I applaud this guy  *clap, clap, clap*.

Work smarter, not harder. How is that not a good thing?

So, are people just supposed to aspire to being cogs in the wheel?

On the other hand, if all he wants to do in life is program, then he's actually not smarter bc he just proved it's not worth keeping that kind of job in the US -- much cheaper to send it overseas.
"When in doubt...ask Troglodyte" ~0mnslnd


  • MWeb37
  • Super Waygook

    • 422

    • February 11, 2012, 10:24:08 am
Re: Work ethic
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2013, 10:16:30 am »
He sounds like upper management material to me.

Yes, I applaud this guy  *clap, clap, clap*.

Work smarter, not harder. How is that not a good thing?

Haha, while I do agree with my statement, I intended some ambiguity as far as whether it's a 'good' or 'bad' thing.

On one hand he is 'working smarter', on the other, he is exploiting cheap labour and deceiving the company while siphoning unnecessary resources for himself.

I'd say that's pretty much standard protocol with most upper management in major corporations these days.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 10:18:37 am by MWeb37 »


  • Jrong
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Re: Work ethic
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 10:30:20 am »
I don't think capitalism is good. But it is. So within the context he could have been smart (if he has higher aspirations in life) or dumb (bc he just proved his job should be outsourced).
"When in doubt...ask Troglodyte" ~0mnslnd


  • wrinklebump
  • Expert Waygook

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    • March 20, 2012, 01:31:12 pm
    • Ulsan, Korea via Detroit, Michigan
Re: Work ethic
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 11:15:41 am »
There are an awful lot of good cat videos out there.
Livin in a pathetic epidemic with schizophrenics buyin synthetic bodies on credit


  • chuck2657
  • Expert Waygook

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    • September 11, 2012, 02:29:12 pm
Re: Work ethic
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 12:18:57 pm »
http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2013/01/16/verizon-finds-developer-outsourced-his-work-to-china-so-he-could-surf-reddit-and-watch-cat-videos/

The article is related.

I'm honestly not sure what to make of this. I know for a fact that some people here will probably think it's great, but I can't see how someone could possibly feel good about themselves for getting paid to do absolutely nothing all day long (cue irony from people who don't think ESL involves doing something-- save it, please). And that's what he did-- nothing. He didn't even do anything interesting, like improve himself or learn a language, etc.-- he watched cat videos on youtube, while proving that his company should have just saved themselves money and outsourced to China to begin with. What a complete and utter waste.

I do spend a lot of time online but usually I'm multitasking-- when I was in advertising it was actually a big help to take your mind off of what you were doing and sometimes the big idea would just spontaneously come to you in the middle of something else.

But this isn't even that-- there's no endgame here. The only thing he gained here was a sense that he beat a company that trusted him to actually do his job. He's a con artist. Looking at the comments on the article, it seems like people seem to think that this is a good thing.

Is this what people nowadays aspire to be?

Serious question.

Yes. 

He recognized what his recreational time was worth, the market value for skills, and that the market value for that skill-set was far lower in China.  He took advantage of it.

Honestly, Verizon is the one who looks the worst in this scenario.  They hired a software engineer in the US to work on individual pieces of code in a non-team environment?  I had no idea companies still did that in 2000...yet less in 2013.  There's a reason they're called software engineers instead of programmers.  All the programmers are in India (or in this case China).  You can't justify paying someone 50-100K a year (software engineers, along with engineers in general, are the highest paid 4 year college grads in the US) to program software alone.  Software engineers should either be working on part of a team project, managing contracts and developments that are done elsewhere (i.e. supervising programmers from India) or working as a "consultant" figure that goes in between the end-user/business and the programmers.

I don't read this article and think "wow, that guy is morally lacking".  I read it and think "wow, I can't believe Verizon is such a terribly managed company".


Re: Work ethic
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2013, 04:55:11 pm »
Quote
(cue irony from people who don't think ESL involves doing something-- save it, please).

Aww, do I have to?

Quote
What a complete and utter waste.

You know, you made me think of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_books

Do you know, there are actually people out there who have read all of those? How many times can the plucky band of ill-equipped outsiders triumph over the ruthless, massive empire-like organization, anyway?

Sooo...yes, it is a waste. For everybody. But then, many people waste much of their lives. And as for the 'waste' on Verizon's part...it isn't even a rounding error to them. More embarrassing than anything. They waste more resources sending technicians to the wrong places and having them wait around for no reason in just one state, for just one hour, than they did with this guy. Verizon answers to no one except Comcast in the wasted time/money/resources department.

I can't believe, of all the things to be annoyed/worried/concerned about, you'd pick this. Who cares? Think about stuff like this too much, you'll wear out your brain.

Maybe he does aspire to be a con. Plenty of people have always aspired to live off the work of others. That's just humanity for you. As to 'work ethic,' you just have to set the parameters. Verizon didn't and so this guy got them. But too far the other way and you have what we see in Korea--'busy, busy', always, rushing around, doing, um, something, meaning nothing. No thanks. Do the work and I don't care if you look busy or have an ethic. Do you care?

Quote
There are an awful lot of good cat videos out there.
This is very true.


Re: Work ethic
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2013, 05:51:12 pm »
It was an interesting article.  I read it a couple of days ago.  I didn't think anything else about it afterwards.  It was just light entertainment to me. 


  • Jrong
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Re: Work ethic
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2013, 06:37:43 pm »
It reminds me of when I worked at a hotel. I did some online work at the same time and made an extra $500 a month, which for me at that time was good.
"When in doubt...ask Troglodyte" ~0mnslnd


  • Arsalan
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Re: Work ethic
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2013, 06:55:28 am »
This is really interesting.  At first, I don't find anything wrong with what the employee did.  Work smarter, not harder right?

The only aspect of what he did that bothers me is the deception that could have easily lead to major security concerns for Verizon.  The situation would have been perfectly good had he gotten approval to work as a consultant, and completed projects with the intention of hiring a support to team to complete these projects.  I imagine if he had gone to the company with a reasonable and clear proposal, he would have been considered a captain of industry as opposed to a fraud.  A bit of a shame.  Then again, his browsing habits probably say a lot about his general attitude.
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  • _Omiak_
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    • February 29, 2012, 08:16:39 pm
    • Gwangju, SK
Re: Work ethic
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2013, 10:58:06 am »
If he's a "con artist" for outsourcing one job, what does that make the corporations that outsource thousands of jobs?


  • Morticae
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1400

    • August 31, 2010, 12:45:33 pm
Re: Work ethic
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2013, 11:22:31 am »
That was pretty clever of him. I didn't realize it could be detected when a VPN was being used and where it was being used from... doesn't that defeat the purpose? I'm not well versed in the whole VPN thing.


  • Jrong
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Re: Work ethic
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2013, 02:32:12 pm »
That was pretty clever of him. I didn't realize it could be detected when a VPN was being used and where it was being used from... doesn't that defeat the purpose? I'm not well versed in the whole VPN thing.
Yeah. And the whole 'serious security issues' thing means no one in any company would want him. So now I'm thinking, why did he do it? He obviously has a high-risk personality so he needs to work for himself, right?
"When in doubt...ask Troglodyte" ~0mnslnd


Re: Work ethic
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2013, 03:57:03 pm »
If he's a "con artist" for outsourcing one job, what does that make the corporations that outsource thousands of jobs?

It depends on the circumstances-- are there enough domestic workers with the appropriate skillset? Are the unions making reasonable demands? Is it possible to afford the kind of people you need without seriously cutting into your profits?

It's really naive to see all corporations as pure exploitation-- there is an emphasis on efficiency and profit in some of them that often trumps 'doing the right thing', but apparently this particular corporation thought that hiring locally might be preferable.

If he had been swamped with work and had managed to be productive and make himself an asset in other ways, then I doubt they would have cared-- but wasting all of that time while collecting a paycheck is just going to get him fired. It's not 'working smart' if he isn't working!

Like it or not we're not all born in positions of power and privilege and sometimes you actually do have to work in order to advance yourself. This guy was given an opportunity that most people out there would kill for, and he totally wasted it.


Re: Work ethic
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2013, 05:57:17 pm »
Many people here are missing the point. He out-sourced his work, as a free market libertarian, I have ZERO problem with this. However the issue is that he was taking credit for work he did not do. "work smarter not harder" requires ACTUAL WORK BE DONE BY YOU! Plus the obvious security risks doing business in China like this. My problem, and Im sure the companies problem, was that we was claiming he did work he did not actually do and was getting paid for it. That isnt working smarter; as evidenced from him getting caught.
WinRAR, WinRAR, chicken dinrar


  • Arsalan
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Re: Work ethic
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2013, 05:10:16 am »
Many people here are missing the point.

I think everyone's saying the same thing you are Aristotle100.  He should have been forthcoming initially about the idea of "outsourcing" or having a support team under him.  It was his approach, and the exposure to security malpractices.  He gave his FOB to someone else, moreover someone he hasn't met on the other side of the world.  Yikes.
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  • bts21
  • Adventurer

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    • September 04, 2012, 10:15:28 am
    • Gyeongbuk
Re: Work ethic
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2013, 07:41:26 am »
If he's a "con artist" for outsourcing one job, what does that make the corporations that outsource thousands of jobs?

It's really naive to see all corporations as pure exploitation-- there is an emphasis on efficiency and profit in some of them that often trumps 'doing the right thing', but apparently this particular corporation thought that hiring locally might be preferable.


Except that there really is no morality in business/capitalism - only the profit motive. It's much more naive to say that sometimes corporations fail to "do the right thing" than to say that, whenever possible, corporations will exploit their resources, including workers, for the greatest possible profit. If this wasn't true, we wouldn't need things like labor laws. Maybe your corner Mom and Pop store is different, but corporations by and large aren't (and that's why so many Moms and Pops are going out of business).

Either way, the outsourcing company in this analogy would only be a "con artist" if it outsourced jobs and then went on to tell people that all/most of its jobs were in the country, hoo rah [country name] etc etc. Otherwise it's just honestly doing what's best for business.