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Public School: Laws/Reasons for a legit termination
« on: November 09, 2012, 02:38:58 pm »
So I received a surprising message this morning from my recruiter stating that, because in the morning I have been going straight to my classroom instead of going to the main teacher's room and saying hi to both my co-teacher and vice principal I am now receiving one warning, which if I have 3 that would be termination.

I'm confused about this for a few reasons:
1.  Last semester when I had a morning class I would do this and it was completely fine.
2.  I don't recall ever being told this... ever.
3.  The VP did tell me a while ago to avoid coming in the teachers room on Monday and Thursday mornings because they had teachers meeting and didn't want me to potentially interrupt so I've felt it's best to avoid there during those times all together.

I can understand that things like this can change when the administration changes, so I'm sensing that could be the case here.  Yet, I'm honestly just really puzzled and upset to be receiving this notice now in November when my contract is done by the end of February anyway -- only 3 months left of actual teaching, if that.  And my actual teaching itself (finding more engaging lessons) and classroom management has improved.

But anyway, I was informed in the e-mail that after 3 warnings I'd be terminated and will not receive a return ticket and severance payment.

So what are actually the guidelines and laws for this at Public Schools?  Can they just drop you before the end of the school year or do they have to send you elsewhere or what?  I know I should probably check  my contract, but knowing how Korean contracts are I don't expect it to have all the details I'm seeking. 

Oh -- and by the way.. for other public school people: Are your co-teachers ALWAYS in the room with you when you're teaching?  Do they ever just randomly not show up?  I know sometimes they're busy and have to leave sometimes or they ask if they can, which is fine but one frustration of mine is that I'll get no notice half the time... or it's long after the fact.

Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 02:43:42 pm by jenilyn8705 »


  • Wintermute
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Re: Public School: Laws/Reasons for a legit termination
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2012, 02:59:42 pm »
As for having CTs in the room, I have never. Just ask the CTs to never show up and then you wont have to wonder anymore.

For the school dropping you, yes they can after 3 strikes, they dont have to transfer you.

Im wondering (I dont know) if the school is just coming up with anything they can to give you 3 warnings so as to drop you, or make good reason not to rehire you. 

Im wondering if your recruiter has approached your school for a decision on rehiring you, they said no, your recruiter advised them on giving you a warning so that later when you are told "no", they have a reason to fall back on.

Understand I am just speculating out my batooty.



  • Menlyn
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Re: Public School: Laws/Reasons for a legit termination
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2012, 03:09:56 pm »
Your recruiter shouldn't be emailing you to tell you about the warnings you've received. It should come from your Principal /VP (or translated and through your co-teacher).

Is your contract nearly up? A lot of recruiters (especially the independent, smaller operations) are complete slimeballs.

I had a recruiter get me a job at a PS a few years back. He got his commission. Then 9 months in, he started calling me asking if I was happy at my school... and telling me how he had some great public school positions in different areas for me. (This was pre- job market crash, so teachers were still in demand). I said I was happy at my current school. Later he tried telling me how my school always complains about me, and that the Principal didn't like me etc. Needless to say this was all BS. I renewed with the school, and then he dropped by the school to ask for his commission (on my renewal). My co-teacher told him to go and get @#$%ed요.

Moral of the story. Recruiter earns nothing if you renew. If you leave, and he gets to replace you, he earns a commission.


  • Andyroo
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Re: Public School: Laws/Reasons for a legit termination
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2012, 03:21:03 pm »
Has anyone at the school actually said anything to you?

Once your placed generally recruiters don't care any more. The only time mine contacted me or the school again was near the end of my contract to see if the school wanted a new teacher.


  • taeyang
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Re: Public School: Laws/Reasons for a legit termination
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2012, 03:21:30 pm »
why is your recruiter emailing you to tell you of discipline action in your school?

unless you are quite close with your recruiter, this is really strange.
use google to search the site

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Re: Public School: Laws/Reasons for a legit termination
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2012, 03:23:52 pm »
Ignore it, or ask your 'recruiter' to issue warnings through official channels.  Basically, after you are placed, you and the recruiter have no further business.  None.

Hopefully you are on good terms with your co-teacher and you can ask what it's all about, but unless it comes from your school or education office it's irrelevant.


Re: Public School: Laws/Reasons for a legit termination
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2012, 03:26:17 pm »
As for having CTs in the room, I have never. Just ask the CTs to never show up and then you wont have to wonder anymore.

For the school dropping you, yes they can after 3 strikes, they dont have to transfer you.

Im wondering (I dont know) if the school is just coming up with anything they can to give you 3 warnings so as to drop you, or make good reason not to rehire you. 

Im wondering if your recruiter has approached your school for a decision on rehiring you, they said no, your recruiter advised them on giving you a warning so that later when you are told "no", they have a reason to fall back on.

Understand I am just speculating out my batooty.

Yes that thought crossed my mind because it is starting to be around the time that they would ask for a renewal.  It could be... but I remember telling my co-teacher I was thinking of grad school anyway after this, but knowing how scatterbrained they probably forgot... who knows.


  • 0mnslnd
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Re: Public School: Laws/Reasons for a legit termination
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 03:56:09 pm »
no i think your recruiter is bluffing. I call a slimeball
Out. Never been happier


Re: Public School: Laws/Reasons for a legit termination
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 04:48:56 pm »


Once your placed generally recruiters don't care any more. The only time mine contacted me or the school again was near the end of my contract to see if the school wanted a new teacher.

Yeah that does seem to be the case here.

Thanks everyone for the guidance!


  • skippy
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Re: Public School: Laws/Reasons for a legit termination
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 08:31:03 pm »
This is an interesting scam from recruiters.   I have heard of trash talking and bait/switch.  This is a new one.  Ya after nine months most recruiters will not be calling you.  Remember they are not your friends, they make money off of you.

As to laws,  I think it would be pretty much the standard labor laws.   I have heard of some hagwons doing the three strike stuff.  Public schools I don't know.

In general,  it should be 30 days advanced warning of dismissal.  The reasons for dismissal can be from not doing work properly, being late, missing work, business downsizing, etc.  The dismissal should be written and give to employee.   That is the why some place do the three warnings system.  The can stockpile legit reasons to letting a person go.  Which is fair, but I would like places have a way to have those forgiven.

Now sometimes a person can out right fired, but that is for gross misconduct from being arrested for a crime, fighting with people, molesting the students, school burned down, etc.

Check out the Labor Standards Act Chapter II / Part II
Quote
Article 23 (Restriction on Dismissal, etc.)
      
(1)    An employer shall not, without justifiable cause, dismiss, lay off, suspend, or transfer a worker, reduce his/her wages, or take other punitive measures (hereinafter referred to as "unfair dismissal, etc.") against him/her.
      
(2)    An employer shall not dismiss a worker during a period of suspension of work for medical treatment of an occupational injury or disease and within 30 days immediately thereafter, and any woman before and after childbirth shall not be dismissed during a period of suspension of work as prescribed by this Act and for 30 days immediately thereafter: Provided, That this shall not apply where the employer has paid a lump sum compensation as provided for under Article 84 or where the employer may not continue to conduct his/her business.
   
Article 24 (Restrictions on Dismissal for Managerial Reasons)
      
(1)    Where an employer wishes to dismiss a worker for managerial reasons, there must be an urgent managerial necessity. In this case, it shall be deemed that there is an urgent managerial necessity for the transfer, merger, or acquisition of the business in order to prevent managerial deterioration.
      
(2)    In case of paragraph (1), the employer shall make every effort to avoid dismissal and shall establish and follow reasonable and fair criteria for the selection of those persons subject to dismissal. In this case, there shall be no discrimination on the basis of gender.
      
(3)    Where there is an organized labor union which represents more than half of the workers at the business or workplace, the employer shall inform at least 50 days before the intended date of dismissal and consult in good faith with the labor union (where there is no such organized labor union, this shall refer to a person who represents more than half of the workers; hereinafter referred to as the "labor representative") regarding the methods for avoiding dismissals, the criteria for dismissal, etc. under the provisions of paragraph (2).
      
(4)    When an employer intends to dismiss personnel under the provisions of paragraph (1) above the fixed limit as prescribed by Presidential Decree, he/she shall report to the Minister of Employment and Labor as determined by Presidential Decree. <Amended by Act No. 10339, Jun. 4, 2010>
      
(5)    When an employer dismisses workers in accordance with the conditions prescribed in paragraphs (1) through (3), it shall be deemed a dismissal with proper cause under the provisions of Article 23 (1).
   
Article 25 (Preferential Reemployment, etc.)
      
(1)    When an employer who has dismissed a worker under the provisions of Article 24 wishes to hire, within three years of the date of the dismissal, any worker who will perform the same duty as the dismissed worker did at the time of such dismissal, he/she shall preferentially rehire the worker dismissed under Article 24, if the worker so desires.
      
(2)    The Government shall take necessary measures for the dismissed workers under the provisions of Article 24, such as stabilization of livelihood, reemployment and vocational training, on a priority basis.
   
Article 26 (Advance Notice of Dismissal)
      
When an employer intends to dismiss a worker (including dismissal for managerial reason), he/she shall give the worker a notice of dismissal at least 30 days in advance of such dismissal, and, if the employer fails to give such advance notice, he/she shall pay that worker ordinary wages for not less than 30 days: Provided, That this shall not apply where a natural disaster, calamity or other unavoidable circumstances prevent the continuance of the business concerned or where the worker concerned has, on purpose, caused a considerable hindrance to the business or inflicted any damage to the property and it falls under any cause as determined by Ordinance of the Ministry of Employment and Labor. <Amended by Act No. 10339, Jun. 4, 2010>
   
Article 27 (Written Notice of Reasons, etc. for Dismissal)
      
(1)    When an employer intends to dismiss a worker, he/she shall notify the worker in writing of the reasons for and time of the dismissal.
      
(2)    The dismissal of a worker shall become effective only upon written notice pursuant to paragraph (1).
   
Article 28 (Request for Remedy from Unfair Dismissal, etc.)
      
(1)    When a worker is subjected by the employer to any unfair dismissal, etc., he/she may request a remedy therefor from a labor relations commission.
      
(2)    A request for remedy under paragraph (1) shall be made within three months from the date of the unfair dismissal, etc.

The laws might be a bit different for Public School and Government workers.

Good Luck.
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Re: Public School: Laws/Reasons for a legit termination
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2012, 08:41:27 pm »
I agree, it's fishy. But how did he know your routine to never visit the office? The recruiter obviously  new some specific factual detail, which IMO, lends some credence to it.

If I were you, I would send your CT a message about this to see if it's legit.