Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished

if one could be sure of coming back to one's job next March, then a good 6-8 months of  de-Koreaization in Thailand or Indonesia would sound like a lovely proposition. Unfortunately, I suspect no such guarantees will be able to be offered since no school will know who will have a net budget next March until late January or so.

I've met a bunch of young KET's with reasonably good English skills but to say they're able to step in and replace native speakers, especially for intermediate to advanced level students is a big joke. Still way too many mistakes, especially with prepositions, particles, etc. They're also used to teaching their English classes speaking English with a heavy Korean accent. When I asked one of my coteachers whose pronunciation is actually excellent why she does this, she says otherwise the students won't/wouldn't understand.

this game of political ping pong will continue depending on what happens in the next elections.  I also suspect their Winter Olympics in the future will  tame some of the enthusiasm to drive out many NET's before then. It is amazing how considering the money and resources put into English in countries like Korea, you go to a country without any such efforts and resources, like Indonesia and you will find that almost every professional and university graduate there speaks at least decent basic English, and without any cultural hangups like shyness, etc.

my school was given the option in March 2011 for funding: 40% city,  40% gepik and 20% school. They (school) agreed to it but now gepik cant  give  their 40% funding.  So the school cant come up with 60% of the money. 

now gepik is telling the school that they never offered that option and that it is the school's fault to renewing the contract. there are 7 -8 school in my area in the same situation. gepik  cant admit they messed up.

GEPIK didn't mess up.

Yes, they are wrong in trying to withdraw their offer.  But they didn't screw up like you're implying.

There seems to be a lot of finger pointing going on right now. If you think anyone in authority, GEPIK, GPOE, whatever, is blameless in all of this, then think again. We're being used as political footballs and everyone is getting in their kicks.

There seems to be a lot of finger pointing going on right now. If you think anyone in authority, GEPIK, GPOE, whatever, is blameless in all of this, then think again. We're being used as political footballs and everyone is getting in their kicks.

Blaming GEPIK for this is a little bit ignorant though...I mean...the GPOE puts a budget into the GPC....the GPC rejects funding for native teachers...the GPOE reacts.  GEPIK is completely powerless with this sort of stuff...just a small, insignificant sub-branch of the GPOE!  One of the biggest traps that English teachers fall into is assuming that GEPIK is some huge and mighty government body!  It's not.  It's a small part of an educational department in a large province in a small country.  GEPIK doesn't determine its own budget...and is nowhere near as powerful and nefarious as people try to claim.  Blaming GEPIK for the current funding 'crisis' is like blaming a kid because his parents are bickering.

There seems to be a lot of finger pointing going on right now. If you think anyone in authority, GEPIK, GPOE, whatever, is blameless in all of this, then think again. We're being used as political footballs and everyone is getting in their kicks.

Blaming GEPIK for this is a little bit ignorant though...I mean...the GPOE puts a budget into the GPC....the GPC rejects funding for native teachers...the GPOE reacts.  GEPIK is completely powerless with this sort of stuff...just a small, insignificant sub-branch of the GPOE!  One of the biggest traps that English teachers fall into is assuming that GEPIK is some huge and mighty government body!  It's not.  It's a small part of an educational department in a large province in a small country.  GEPIK doesn't determine its own budget...and is nowhere near as powerful and nefarious as people try to claim.  Blaming GEPIK for the current funding 'crisis' is like blaming a kid because his parents are bickering.

if the quote from one of the politicans is to be believed, GPOE/GEPIK screwed up in their budget requests, or by not being transparent enough in their request. Supposedly their original budget was approved in its entirety and then another supplemental request was submitted and this was shot down. Why major chunks of net funding were in the supplemental rather than original budget request would be a fair question to ask of GPOE/GEPIK.

if the quote from one of the politicans is to be believed, GPOE/GEPIK screwed up in their budget requests, or by not being transparent enough in their request. Supposedly their original budget was approved in its entirety and then another supplemental request was submitted and this was shot down. Why major chunks of net funding were in the supplemental rather than original budget request would be a fair question to ask of GPOE/GEPIK.

So I guess you mean this quote -

“We gave them everything they requested in the main budget and now they’re asking for more without properly explaining why they need it,” said an official from the council. “They didn’t give us specific reasons for needing the money. We can’t give out extra money without getting specific and detailed explanations of how it will be used.”

So, you think that somehow the GPOE (or the GPOE/GEPIK as you call it!) has put in a different budget request than the one they've put in for the last eight years?  Somehow...after eight years of successful budget requests, they decided to experiment with the request for our budget....just to see what happened?  Come on.  That's not likely now is it?

I mean in the next paragraph we get this -

“There is a long-term plan to reduce the number of foreign English teachers,” said Shin Jong-cheol, a member of the GPC. “In the past when English was difficult to learn, the role of foreign teachers was important. However, now students can interact with foreign teachers overseas through video, so their role here has significantly decreased.”

“Just having one foreign teacher per school doesn’t really have much of an effect,” he said, explaining the need for the reduction. “The GPOE knows this as well and this is a matter that has been agreed upon.”

Does that sound like it was just a budget request error?  Why would Shin decry the role of English teachers and play up the role of video teaching, as part of the 'need for the reduction' if it was just some stupid clerical error?

The main thing that I take umbrage with in your comment is that you're making the mistake that I was talking about...you're calling the Gyenggi Provincial Office of Education 'GPOE/GEPIK'.  Like I said before, you would only do that if you were ignorant of the way things actually are. GEPIK is part of the GPOE, the GPOE is the body that receives funding, the GPOE is the body that controls GEPIK, and the GPOE is the body that will need to deal with the GPC.  I think that it's important to understand the way the system we work in works, and the way that it's funded...so I will try and explain it simply.

The GPOE controls EVERY aspect of education within Gyeonggi-do.  This means that they set policy for each aspect, create programs to oversee different aspects, choose materials, select staff (such as teachers), build new schools, allocate school budgets, allocate program budgets and so on.  The GPOE is based in Suwon.

City Halls are also involved in some aspects of education within Gyeonggi-do.  City Halls have an important role to play in funding certain programs that they see as valuable within their city.  So, City Hall might see English education, science, or technology as being extremely important in their area...so that City Hall will allocate funding to schools within the city that it thinks are capable of delivering decent education outcomes for that particular subject area.

GEPIK is a program that is based within the GPOE.  GEPIK assists as a bridge between Native English Teachers, Korean Teachers, and Schools and the GPOE/City Hall.  GEPIK is an administrative office that also provides training and support for NETs and KTs.

That's it...from my understanding...tha t's the breakdown of GPOE, City Halls and GEPIK.  Now...the GPOE requests funding from the GPC every three months...and the GPC can accept or deny any aspect of that funding based on any number of criteria.  Whilst they may say that the request was denied due to lack of information...they can also deny funding based on their own attitude....and in this case...it appears that they have a foot in both camps as far as their excuse for declining to fund out program for the next three months.

Good summary, Burndog.
It's also worth mentioning that Kim Moon-soo is the governor of Gyeonggi which makes him head of the Gyeonggi Provincial Government, which is different from Provincial Council - he (should have) nothing to do with this.
Basically it's organized like this:

Executive Branch: Gyeonggi Provincial Government, headed by Governor Kim Moon-soo(GNP)
                             Gyeonggi Province Office of Education, headed by Education superintendent Kim Sang-gon (Progressive)
Legislative Branch: Gyeonggi Provincial Council (Dominated by Democratic party)

(The governor and Education superintendent are profiled here: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/06/116_66972.html )

The council legislates the funding for the executive branches; in Seoul the council diverted funding from mayor Oh Se-hoon's pet projects to fund free lunches: http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2930362

There are a handful of articles in Korean mentioning the cuts to native speaking teachers, but only one by NoCut News looks at it specifically: http://www.nocutnews.co.kr/show.asp?idx=1863902

It's pretty similar to the Korea Times article, but also adds some stats saying that there are 2093 native speaking teachers in Gyeonggi-do, with 1,161 in elementary schools, 569 in middle schools, and 372 in high schools. Of these 2093, 1,119 are provided for by the Gyeonggi-do Office of Education, while the other 974 are provided for by local city or county governments. As the KT mentioned, those 1,119, 300 had already been given notice by GEPIK.

That figure of 2093 (or now 1793) is a drop from 2,256 total teachers in Gyeonggi last November, when the GPOE announced it would cut 200 jobs in 2011. (see here: http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2010/11/placing-native-speaking-teachers-in.html )
 
Also at that link above is a translation of an article published last November when a member of the Gyeonggi Provincial Council stated there weren't enough foreign teachers at the 'S' pay level, which was a problem (as if the GPC wants to pay every teacher 2.5 million!). From the article:

Representative Rep. Jo Myeong-ho, member of the Gyeonggi provincial council’s education committee, stated that, "If someone possesses a 4 year degree from a university in countries like the US, Britain or Canada, they can work as a native speaking teacher whether or not they have a related major or teaching certificate," and, "Expenses for a single teacher cost more than 40 or 45 million won per year, but there is no data to objectively evaluate their educational effectiveness."

"The time has come to verify their educational ability and qualifications," and, "it's time to improve English education which has given unconditional preference to foreigners with inadequate qualifications and ability," he added.

I guess the time "to verify their educational ability and qualifications" has come and gone, and the GPC has decided that English education is going to be "improved" by killing GEPIK?

It was pretty clear back then what some members of the GPC thought about the foreign teachers. By the way, Shin Jong-cheol, who was quoted in the KT article saying “In the past when English was difficult to learn, the role of foreign teachers was important. However, now students can interact with foreign teachers overseas through video, so their role here has significantly decreased. [...] Just having one foreign teacher per school doesn’t really have much of an effect” - he's actually the head of the Special Committee on Budget and Accounts, which obviously played a large part in all of this.

Also worth noting is that the GPC passed a bill two months ago, which, citing problems with 'drug addicts'  working as native speaking instructors, amended the Hagwon law so as to punish with fines or closure hagwons who hire drug addicts (and sex criminals, both Korean and foreign, though this has been played down in the media). The catch? The hagwon law didn't allow for such penalties for hiring people with drug arrests in their background, but despite the fact the bill wasn't quite legal, it was passed unanimously anyways. More about that bill can be found here:
http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2011/05/expel-those-drug-addicted-molesting.html

This should give some idea how the GPC feels about foreign teachers.

I hope EPIK isn't next. Well, at least for another 2-3 years lol. I won't really care after that. Selfish me! 

Doesn't EPIK serve the more rural parts of the country though?  Aren't rural areas less enthusiastic about cutting back native teachers?

I hope EPIK isn't next. Well, at least for another 2-3 years lol. I won't really care after that. Selfish me! 

The plan is to phase out EPIK as well. I heard from a certain coordinator the gov't will slowly start phasing EPIK out in 2015, but I stand to be corrected.

Can anyone interpret what "Although those contracting next year will secure work, those whose contracts are to expire within the next few months may have to wait longer to renew their contracts or find another job" means?  There's conflicting information here--but that makes sense because basically, this comes down to GPC versus GPOE/GEPIK.  Anyone who's been here awhile want to chime in on how that one's going to go down?  GPC basically looks like they want to cut the program altogether.

This is referring to the "hiring freeze" that was announced back in April. At the time, GEPIK sent out an email explaining that this was sort of a "house cleaning" measure to get all the contracts coordinated. It's interesting then, that it's being linked to budget and teacher reduction in addition to administrative purposes.

Anyway, if you have a contract you're safe. If your contract finishes or finished between May 2011 and August 31st 2011 or September 2nd, 2011 and February 28th, 2012 you're screwed out of a hopes for renewal.

Can someone with better political knowledge tell me which party is pro-NET? If any?

I and many teachers in my area recieved a letter stating that GEPIK's funding has been cut and they are NOT renewing any teachers contracts because of lack of funding. The letter states that they will begin hiring again March 1 2012. this is stupid for a few reasons...


1. they want kids to learn english (universal language after all!) but they cut funding.
2 Public school is how most parents have their children learn english, hagwons are a COSTLY alternative to public school english.
3 why cut the jobs that end on the day that you will hire people?
4 the free public lunch for students was a STUPID move (just a personal thought!)

these among other things are making this a HUGE step backwards. thoughts/comments?

Not so fast...

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/07/117_91436.html

OK, so I also read this article and the official statement from GEPIK saying that they won't renew contracts or hire anyone new starting in OCTOBER.  My contract ends on August 31 and I was set to renew on Sept. 1, but my school is still telling me I cannot renew.  I have signed the intent renewal form but not an actual contract.

Does anyone know if these intent to renew forms are binding??  Because my GEPIK coordinator told me if I had signed the actual contract my job would be safe, and she didn't seem to know anything about these renewal forms.

This is so effing stressful.  I already bought a round-trip non-refundable ticket to visit home.  I leave Saturday, and when I come back to Korea I'll have one week left on my current contract and then if I can't renew or find another job before then I'll have to go right back home again.  What a mess  :'(

Doesn't EPIK serve the more rural parts of the country though?  Aren't rural areas less enthusiastic about cutting back native teachers?

EPIK's everything from big cities to really rural areas. I know the Gyeongbuk POE has really upped the number of foreign teachers over the last few years, but there's still quite a few tiny rural schools with no foreign teacher and they still seem to be hiring pretty consistently. From what I understand my province is pretty well off though, so who knows what's going on in other places.

Wonder how this will affect JLP. I like rural Korea, so that's where I was going to go next if EPIK started looking iffy.

I think that there are a lot of people who would rather not have us here... and the fact that we are here making what we make is causing a LOT of resentment. It doesn't really have anything to do with education so that's not really even worth talking about. The one universal constant in education everywhere is ego-- and Korea is no different. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether we're 'effective' or if native speakers work or not... because if that were the case then perhaps they would be more set on actively trying to design a coherent program for us and not just have us sitting around wondering if we're doing it right while our co-teachers try to make us over into glorified clown acts. Most teachers give up on actually caring about education about 5 years after they start teaching... it's a fact. I saw it back home as well, they'll bring up 'the kids' when they want to get what they want... but education is maybe 10% about the kids and 90% about the adults... just like everything else in life, with a few rare exceptions. 

I would even go so far as to say that the majority of KOREANS-- not just co-teachers, not just principals, vice principals, superintendents, etc, but also normal everyday Koreans... are completely 100% against the idea of native speakers being able to live the kinds of lives we live here. They don't like the idea that foreign workers are being paid more than Korean workers, plain and simple. They don't like that we're being handed the kind of money at 23 that they've worked for ten years to get. A wide-eyed 23 year old can come to Korea, get walked over by the kids, 'improvise' structureless activities every day, and be at the same salary level as a 38 year old educated perfectionist who not only commands the respect of the kids but is also actively involved in their lives. There are so many things that are wrong with that... but at the same time, that's how it is. 

The system has set us up to elicit nothing but resentment-- the only disappointing thing is that instead of demanding better conditions for themselves, everyone demands 'revenge' and wants to kick us out... some of them going so far as to willfully sabotage us as if they wouldn't jump at the opportunity we have if it were presented to them. They're not even really angry at us (or they think they are and shouldn't be), they're just angry at the system because they feel betrayed by it--- and they have been. It's similar to the US beef protests a while ago-- and we're the beef.

I think there's actually a lot of hope in Korea that when 2013 rolls around the new president will dispose of us all completely... it's what happens when recessions hit and people start to feel desperate-- they start choosing their targets, and along with 2MB, we're the most obvious. To be fair, I don't think that the lack of training, guidance and curriculum help to make us seem any more professional... mix that with Korean nationalistic groupthink and low English proficiency scores, then there's going to be some pretty serious power struggles going on.

I think that there are a lot of people who would rather not have us here... and the fact that we are here making what we make is causing a LOT of resentment. It doesn't really have anything to do with education so that's not really even worth talking about. The one universal constant in education everywhere is ego-- and Korea is no different. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether we're 'effective' or if native speakers work or not... because if that were the case then perhaps they would be more set on actively trying to design a coherent program for us and not just have us sitting around wondering if we're doing it right while our co-teachers try to make us over into glorified clown acts. Most teachers give up on actually caring about education about 5 years after they start teaching... it's a fact. I saw it back home as well, they'll bring up 'the kids' when they want to get what they want... but education is maybe 10% about the kids and 90% about the adults... just like everything else in life, with a few rare exceptions. 

I would even go so far as to say that the majority of KOREANS-- not just co-teachers, not just principals, vice principals, superintendents, etc, but also normal everyday Koreans... are completely 100% against the idea of native speakers being able to live the kinds of lives we live here. They don't like the idea that foreign workers are being paid more than Korean workers, plain and simple. They don't like that we're being handed the kind of money at 23 that they've worked for ten years to get. A wide-eyed 23 year old can come to Korea, get walked over by the kids, 'improvise' structureless activities every day, and be at the same salary level as a 38 year old educated perfectionist who not only commands the respect of the kids but is also actively involved in their lives. There are so many things that are wrong with that... but at the same time, that's how it is. 

The system has set us up to elicit nothing but resentment-- the only disappointing thing is that instead of demanding better conditions for themselves, everyone demands 'revenge' and wants to kick us out... some of them going so far as to willfully sabotage us as if they wouldn't jump at the opportunity we have if it were presented to them. They're not even really angry at us (or they think they are and shouldn't be), they're just angry at the system because they feel betrayed by it--- and they have been. It's similar to the US beef protests a while ago-- and we're the beef.

I think there's actually a lot of hope in Korea that when 2013 rolls around the new president will dispose of us all completely... it's what happens when recessions hit and people start to feel desperate-- they start choosing their targets, and along with 2MB, we're the most obvious. To be fair, I don't think that the lack of training, guidance and curriculum help to make us seem any more professional... mix that with Korean nationalistic groupthink and low English proficiency scores, then there's going to be some pretty serious power struggles going on.

[MOD EDIT: Trolling removed]

I think there's actually a lot of hope in Korea that when 2013 rolls around the new president will dispose of us all completely... it's what happens when recessions hit and people start to feel desperate-- they start choosing their targets, and along with 2MB, we're the most obvious. To be fair, I don't think that the lack of training, guidance and curriculum help to make us seem any more professional... mix that with Korean nationalistic groupthink and low English proficiency scores, then there's going to be some pretty serious power struggles going on.

I think that the most obvious targets during this recession are factory workers from SE Asian countries who 'take low paid jobs from Koreans'.  That pillar of solid journalism, The Korea Times, has an article about it today.  Ever so slightly off topic...but worth looking into nonetheless...as I'm sure that once these xenophobes get over their current hard-on for low paid migrant workers...then they're sure to become more vocal about their opposition to us.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/07/117_91655.html

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/07/117_91688.html

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/07/117_91688.html

Sounds like a smart move if the new KETs really are up to scratch and don't just start speaking in Korean constantly during class.

I think that there are a lot of people who would rather not have us here... and the fact that we are here making what we make is causing a LOT of resentment. It doesn't really have anything to do with education so that's not really even worth talking about. The one universal constant in education everywhere is ego-- and Korea is no different. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether we're 'effective' or if native speakers work or not... because if that were the case then perhaps they would be more set on actively trying to design a coherent program for us and not just have us sitting around wondering if we're doing it right while our co-teachers try to make us over into glorified clown acts. Most teachers give up on actually caring about education about 5 years after they start teaching... it's a fact. I saw it back home as well, they'll bring up 'the kids' when they want to get what they want... but education is maybe 10% about the kids and 90% about the adults... just like everything else in life, with a few rare exceptions. 

I would even go so far as to say that the majority of KOREANS-- not just co-teachers, not just principals, vice principals, superintendents, etc, but also normal everyday Koreans... are completely 100% against the idea of native speakers being able to live the kinds of lives we live here. They don't like the idea that foreign workers are being paid more than Korean workers, plain and simple. They don't like that we're being handed the kind of money at 23 that they've worked for ten years to get. A wide-eyed 23 year old can come to Korea, get walked over by the kids, 'improvise' structureless activities every day, and be at the same salary level as a 38 year old educated perfectionist who not only commands the respect of the kids but is also actively involved in their lives. There are so many things that are wrong with that... but at the same time, that's how it is. 

The system has set us up to elicit nothing but resentment-- the only disappointing thing is that instead of demanding better conditions for themselves, everyone demands 'revenge' and wants to kick us out... some of them going so far as to willfully sabotage us as if they wouldn't jump at the opportunity we have if it were presented to them. They're not even really angry at us (or they think they are and shouldn't be), they're just angry at the system because they feel betrayed by it--- and they have been. It's similar to the US beef protests a while ago-- and we're the beef.

I think there's actually a lot of hope in Korea that when 2013 rolls around the new president will dispose of us all completely... it's what happens when recessions hit and people start to feel desperate-- they start choosing their targets, and along with 2MB, we're the most obvious. To be fair, I don't think that the lack of training, guidance and curriculum help to make us seem any more professional... mix that with Korean nationalistic groupthink and low English proficiency scores, then there's going to be some pretty serious power struggles going on.

QUOTE REMOVED

"Just leave then!" is never a valid response when someone raises legitimate points. 

I will say, to Hilarity, that I think resentment is a bit part of the overall xenophobia at work here in the GPC, but I don't believe we actually make more than long-term professional teachers...I think there are threads elsewhere on Waygook that discuss this.  Counting our apartments we may well make more than other new teachers our own age though.

But you're right, looking at it from a big-picture perspective.  There's a lot of apathy in education in all countries, which is what I think feeds the whole hands-tying, enforced-clown-act thing with many NETs.  I can definitely understand someone looking at the current program and thinking that NETs could be used more effectively as teachers--given better training, given a more structure to follow--having some kind of standardized curriculum for all Native teachers would be a huge asset, IMO.  I still really believe strongly that the true value of NETs is in our ability to put a name and a face on Western culture for Koreans, who tend to overgeneralize, misunderstand and by turns, idolize or demonize it.  Korean teachers with even perfect English skills, robots and people on Skype can't provide the sort of cross-cultural experience Korea needs if it wants to grow into a respected global player.  But honestly, beyond perhaps a few ideological politicians, I don't really think that's what Korea wants at all.  I think Korea wants to obtain the (perceived) luxurious lifestyles of Westerners, and perhaps impress the West with their success, but they want to remain culturally isolated.  That's their right, ultimately, and they seem to pull off a sort of self-contained yet thriving economy pretty well for now.  I still think the isolation is going to be detrimental to their future in the long run though.