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  • Brian
  • Featured Contributor

    • 735

    • September 19, 2006, 01:07:56 pm
    • Pittsburgh / Jeollanam-do
Changes to EPIK hiring process
« on: March 31, 2012, 01:22:19 am »
In short:
* no hiring of Level 3s
* no joint applicants
* no more requests for specific city or province
* minimum 2.5 GPA required

http://www.thewaygookeffect.com/2012/03/epik-announces-big-changes-to-hiring.html
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 05:03:21 am by Brian »
In Korea from 2005 - 2010, not in Korea now.  Please contact an active moderator for quick answers to your questions.

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  • Darkeru
  • Expert Waygook

    • 704

    • September 08, 2010, 01:03:17 pm
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2012, 04:38:50 am »
Quote
Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.

http://www.thewaygookeffect.com/2012/03/epik-announces-big-changes-to-hiring.html

Missed the 'L'  :laugh:
[In Korea once more - Working in Pyeongtaek]


  • Brian
  • Featured Contributor

    • 735

    • September 19, 2006, 01:07:56 pm
    • Pittsburgh / Jeollanam-do
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2012, 05:05:17 am »
Quote
Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.

http://www.thewaygookeffect.com/2012/03/epik-announces-big-changes-to-hiring.html

Missed the 'L'  :laugh:

Fixed.
In Korea from 2005 - 2010, not in Korea now.  Please contact an active moderator for quick answers to your questions.

***
Current project: http://www.pennsylvasia.com/


Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2012, 07:51:40 am »
In short:
* no hiring of Level 3s
* no joint applicants
* no more requests for specific city or province
* minimum 2.5 GPA required

http://www.thewaygookeffect.com/2012/03/epik-announces-big-changes-to-hiring.html

That's quite an intruiging article Brian (and thanks for bringing it up). 

EPIK seems to be 'doing' something by 'raising standards' which require you to have a degree with some decent marks.  Yet, now they are saying 'take where we give you and stop complaining!'.

The lesson plan is curious...I'll mention later.

No more couples....again, another curious note.

On the surface, the biggest thing that stands out is the new fact they are no longer hiring the lowest level, but trying to get 'quality teachers'.  Many would argue that anyone before they walk into a classroom should know what a lesson plan looks like as well as have done decently in school so it can show they are somewhat proficient in expressing themselves clearly to get a degree.  Getting lvl 2 only requires a 100hr online TEFL/TESOL (which are a joke).  It's merely cosmetic, but it does look good.

No more couples.  That may be a dealbreaker for many.  No more preference (I think Japan lets you choose to some degree as well) of location is also a big problem for many.

Now let's factor in the past news articles and happenings from the past 7 months.  Budget cuts last summer with people potentially being let go early, provincial fights, election years, free lunches, 'studies' showing KT's are better for English in the classroom and preferred by most students.  Drug problems with foreign teachers...etc etc.  This usually happens every few years.

Now there are also 'cuts' coming.  No more high school and middile school after this year.  Elementary is on the chopping block for completion by 2014.  Yet EPIK says it's hiring..under more stringent standards, no more couples, take where we put you and be happy...get better grades.

Is it me or does this not really make sense?  Look at what they are doing and what has happened.  Can you see it?

After reading this article, I'm leaning towards the new 'standards' being imposed by EPIK being cleverly created to fail.  Imagine thousands of people apply with improper GPA's.  The local press will ridicule them for low performance teaching high performance kids in a test crazy country.  Examples of extremely poorly written class outlines may be presented as to the lack of understanding of pedagogy in the classroom.  The sudden loss of applicants applying to EPIK (or much fewer numbers) due to these new standards while ignoring the fact you can't choose near Seoul anymore.  You may get stuck in a fishing village with little chance to see your significant other.  And this is with people who are 'educated' in the west but fail to meet proper standards even with TEFL or TESOL certification.  Those put in bad locations will eventually run or quit.  This will also be used as a reason for the need for stability to have KT's for the children since the KT's will not simply 'run away'.

This entire process coupled with the past announcements and published studies suggests that EPIK is trying to intentionally fail, by putting the blame on the NET's by placing small yet incredibly important restrictions on them.  Choosing your location is a HUGE factor.  No more couples, bad GPA's to parade in the press as well as others who can't make decent grades (and we know very well what a 70% really means here).  This data will most probably be used to justify the future cuts and eventual closure of EPIK which was not about teaching, but a political tool used to show the electorate (that includes me) that the gov't cares about their kids education. 

Now with the money drying up...they need and excuse to stop this program and are setting up the statistics to justify it publicly by putting the blame on us.

MC


  • Guvut
  • Adventurer

    • 31

    • June 19, 2011, 07:40:24 am
    • USA
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2012, 07:56:40 am »
It's probably for the better. I'm going through the process right now, and even my recruiter was surprised at the changes!


Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 09:24:51 am »
About the level 3 issue.


I see this as a way to decrease salary.  In GEPIK this year, everyone is required to have a TESOL certificate or degree in English.  But this doesn't qualify them for a higher pay category.  If you come in now with no experience and only a TESOL certificate OR degree in English, you get the lowest pay cateogry, 2.0 million won.  In previous years, this was reserved only for those with no experience, no English degree and no TESOL certificate.  Basically, The school save 0.1 million per month on everyone hired from this year on (those of us who came in under the old requirements and have an English degree/TESOL certificate still get yearly raises).
C is for cookie, that's good enough for me.


  • Yu_Bumsuk
  • The Legend

    • 2341

    • March 03, 2011, 02:10:36 pm
    • Hicksville, ROK
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2012, 10:01:33 am »
I like the first and last change, though a 2.5 GPA is very, very easy to get, especially if you don't have to work while going to uni. Brits may be screwed, though, if they don't understand the system and how much harder it is to achieve a level of 70%. A 120-hour certificate is very easy to buy, basically, but it's a hoop that might through off people who aren't serious about teaching.

As for not chosing location, this could be a deal-breaker if I were reapplying. Many experienced teachers thinking of having a second go at Korea have social circles, friends, and even family in certain areas. I wouldn't be surprised if it leads to more runners.


 


Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2012, 06:12:03 pm »
Does this affect current teachers in any way who are in the system already? For renewals and moving to other schools within the same MOE for example?


Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2012, 06:51:14 am »
Does this affect current teachers in any way who are in the system already? For renewals and moving to other schools within the same MOE for example?

It would be annoying if you didn't get re-signed simply for having a low GPA.

How do you calculate your GPA if you didn't go to a North American school? I know mine will be below that mark because I got mostly C's. In NZ that still demonstrates a thorough working knowledge of the material. In most cases it means you didn't either A. memorize the text book or B. play to the professors prejudices or C. crammed the night before the exam.


  • Yu_Bumsuk
  • The Legend

    • 2341

    • March 03, 2011, 02:10:36 pm
    • Hicksville, ROK
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2012, 07:26:03 am »
Does this affect current teachers in any way who are in the system already? For renewals and moving to other schools within the same MOE for example?

It would be annoying if you didn't get re-signed simply for having a low GPA.

How do you calculate your GPA if you didn't go to a North American school? I know mine will be below that mark because I got mostly C's. In NZ that still demonstrates a thorough working knowledge of the material. In most cases it means you didn't either A. memorize the text book or B. play to the professors prejudices or C. crammed the night before the exam.

If you've already taught for a year you should be at level 2.



Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2012, 07:59:17 am »
Does this affect current teachers in any way who are in the system already? For renewals and moving to other schools within the same MOE for example?

It would be annoying if you didn't get re-signed simply for having a low GPA.

How do you calculate your GPA if you didn't go to a North American school? I know mine will be below that mark because I got mostly C's. In NZ that still demonstrates a thorough working knowledge of the material. In most cases it means you didn't either A. memorize the text book or B. play to the professors prejudices or C. crammed the night before the exam.

If you've already taught for a year you should be at level 2.

The GPA requirement and the no-level 3 requirement are independent of one another.
C is for cookie, that's good enough for me.


  • Yu_Bumsuk
  • The Legend

    • 2341

    • March 03, 2011, 02:10:36 pm
    • Hicksville, ROK
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2012, 08:15:37 am »
Does this affect current teachers in any way who are in the system already? For renewals and moving to other schools within the same MOE for example?

It would be annoying if you didn't get re-signed simply for having a low GPA.

How do you calculate your GPA if you didn't go to a North American school? I know mine will be below that mark because I got mostly C's. In NZ that still demonstrates a thorough working knowledge of the material. In most cases it means you didn't either A. memorize the text book or B. play to the professors prejudices or C. crammed the night before the exam.

If you've already taught for a year you should be at level 2.

The GPA requirement and the no-level 3 requirement are independent of one another.

Really? So that means that even a level 1+ could get the axe? I can see some schools objecting very strongly if that were to occur. For incoming teachers it does make a lot of sense if there's a surplus of supply. The fact that it's much harder to get high marks at non-NA universities will be unfortunate for some.


Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2012, 08:46:11 am »
Where's the part stating the 2.5 GPA verbatim?  Could be hard to get if you on an 8-year plan and not decisive of your major as I was.

I wonder if they would round up. :D


The thing that's going to get me is not having my second reference letter until the summer.  I might have to do something else in the fall.


  • Jeff619
  • Expert Waygook

    • 816

    • May 26, 2011, 08:12:52 am
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2012, 10:59:06 am »
Does this affect current teachers in any way who are in the system already? For renewals and moving to other schools within the same MOE for example?

It would be annoying if you didn't get re-signed simply for having a low GPA.

How do you calculate your GPA if you didn't go to a North American school? I know mine will be below that mark because I got mostly C's. In NZ that still demonstrates a thorough working knowledge of the material. In most cases it means you didn't either A. memorize the text book or B. play to the professors prejudices or C. crammed the night before the exam.
I don't know about that.  I went to the University of Auckland to study Education.  I really only attended two classes and just crammed the night before the big exams.  I walked away with straight A's, with the exception of one B.  You're gonna have a really hard time convincing me that earning a 2.5 GPA in NZ is difficult.  After studying in an American university for 4 years I thought the NZ university system was a complete joke.


  • Frozencat99
  • The Legend

    • 2096

    • October 09, 2011, 04:31:36 pm
    more
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2012, 12:52:38 pm »
I wonder if the no choosing locations thing has to do with Busan/Seoul attracting NETs and giving off the image that we're just here to shop, drink, and/or do drugs. Not that it's a valid complaint, but I could see that being an opinion that informed the decision.

I was thinking of getting a 120hr TEFL cert over the next few months... would this no longer change my pay if I sign another contract [aside from the +100k for signing on again]?

I'm interested in the decision to mandate TEFL/an English degree. Some fields (many humanities, communications) involve a lot of peer teaching, lesson planning, and presentations that would undoubtedly equal anything an English major (especially literature) would be able to provide. It's also interesting that they're buying into the "bought certificate = better teacher" propaganda. A terrible teacher with a certificate is still a terrible teacher.

I am satisfied with the GPA requirement though, regardless if its retroactive or not. Equivalents aren't usually to difficult to find online. I found this list for Canadian grades -> US GPA based on Ontario Medical School Application guidelines for US applicants.

90 to 100%    4.0
85 to 89%    3.9
80 to 84%    3.7
77 to 79%    3.3
73 to 76%    3.0
70 to 72%    2.7
67 to 69%    2.3
63 to 66%    2.0
60 to 62%    1.7
57 to 59%    1.3
53 to 56%    1.0
50 to 52%    0.7
< 49    0.0
Beware the Homosexual Industrial Complex -- http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-june-17-2013/left-behind

You can leave your heterophobia behind.


  • tehayne
  • Adventurer

    • 36

    • April 03, 2012, 06:09:34 am
    • Atlanta, Ga
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2012, 06:38:41 am »
I wonder if the no choosing locations thing has to do with Busan/Seoul attracting NETs and giving off the image that we're just here to shop, drink, and/or do drugs. Not that it's a valid complaint, but I could see that being an opinion that informed the decision.

I was thinking of getting a 120hr TEFL cert over the next few months... would this no longer change my pay if I sign another contract [aside from the +100k for signing on again]?

I'm interested in the decision to mandate TEFL/an English degree. Some fields (many humanities, communications) involve a lot of peer teaching, lesson planning, and presentations that would undoubtedly equal anything an English major (especially literature) would be able to provide. It's also interesting that they're buying into the "bought certificate = better teacher" propaganda. A terrible teacher with a certificate is still a terrible teacher.

I am satisfied with the GPA requirement though, regardless if its retroactive or not. Equivalents aren't usually to difficult to find online. I found this list for Canadian grades -> US GPA based on Ontario Medical School Application guidelines for US applicants.

90 to 100%    4.0
85 to 89%    3.9
80 to 84%    3.7
77 to 79%    3.3
73 to 76%    3.0
70 to 72%    2.7
67 to 69%    2.3
63 to 66%    2.0
60 to 62%    1.7
57 to 59%    1.3
53 to 56%    1.0
50 to 52%    0.7
< 49    0.0

See I'm okay even with the new GPA requirement...but the system is a little weird. In the US, universities have different grading systems. I go to Emory University and a 2.7 is a B-, and a 2.5 is a C+. At my friends school a 2.5 is a C average. They might want to start asking for your average grade or something...


  • Yu_Bumsuk
  • The Legend

    • 2341

    • March 03, 2011, 02:10:36 pm
    • Hicksville, ROK
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2012, 07:21:56 am »
^ Yeah, universities are so different that a 3.5 can be very good at one and mediocre at another.

I wonder if they could factor GPA into salary. I did very little course work on my MA (four seminars) but have an unusually high GPA on it.


  • TheWB18
  • Expert Waygook

    • 634

    • October 27, 2011, 07:51:30 am
    • South Korea
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2012, 10:16:00 am »
I think this all just demonstrates how little Korean officials know about western universities (I was tempted to write "real", as all of the Koreans I know who've studied in the U.S., Canada or UK laugh at the rigor of Korean unis).

A 2.5 GPA means a lot of different things.  At my school, GPAs were not calculated, and no one would get a 2.5 because they'd be on their way out the door at that point.  At another elite university which did calculate GPA, a 2.5 might be a low B.  At typical American state school, it's a C.  In the UK I gather there are no GPAs.

My first guess that the Education people didn't know what was up vis a vis western unis is when they made a big deal out of getting my degree translated from the Latin and the translation certified.  Latin degrees are the norm among older western unis, with Latin being our traditional language of scholarship and all.  The snark in me was offended.

The only possible conclusions are a) the Education people don't know how things work outside of Korea or b) they want to give themselves as many potential excuses as possible for not hiring people.


  • Frozencat99
  • The Legend

    • 2096

    • October 09, 2011, 04:31:36 pm
    more
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2012, 11:53:07 am »
I think this all just demonstrates how little Korean officials know about western universities (I was tempted to write "real", as all of the Koreans I know who've studied in the U.S., Canada or UK laugh at the rigor of Korean unis).

A 2.5 GPA means a lot of different things.  At my school, GPAs were not calculated, and no one would get a 2.5 because they'd be on their way out the door at that point.  At another elite university which did calculate GPA, a 2.5 might be a low B.  At typical American state school, it's a C.  In the UK I gather there are no GPAs.

My first guess that the Education people didn't know what was up vis a vis western unis is when they made a big deal out of getting my degree translated from the Latin and the translation certified.  Latin degrees are the norm among older western unis, with Latin being our traditional language of scholarship and all.  The snark in me was offended.

The only possible conclusions are a) the Education people don't know how things work outside of Korea or b) they want to give themselves as many potential excuses as possible for not hiring people.

Or c) Like everyone else that accepts foreign applications, they've selected a method of generalizing GPAs and converting percentages/letter grades to GPAs.

A 2.5 at Harvard, when critically viewed, is leagues better than a 2.5 at Greendale. Yet people will still prefer to hire the 4.0 Harvard grads (that do indeed exist). I'm guessing since 70% was even specified on the website that EPIK doesn't want people to come here with lower than those benchmarks. I don't blame them -- if you're not competent in your field, you don't deserve a job.
Beware the Homosexual Industrial Complex -- http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-june-17-2013/left-behind

You can leave your heterophobia behind.


  • Deesh
  • Super Waygook

    • 250

    • April 01, 2011, 02:22:10 pm
    • Gyeonggi-do
Re: Changes to EPIK hiring process
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2012, 12:01:09 pm »
What about people who graduated at uni's in the UK? We don't have GPA's as such but if 70% is the standard, that would mean only people from the UK with first class degrees would qualify for an EPIK job. In other words, a big majority would instantly be out of the running.