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If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« on: August 13, 2011, 01:44:11 am »
Even though I am trained professional and technically could still go back to my country and find work, I still think of myself as an economic migrant in some ways cause the life here is economically an easier ride than back in the UK. If your honest could you really get something better back home.


Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2011, 02:48:18 am »
I think most economic migrants leave their home countries in search for a better life, an upgrade in economic status. It all depends on your perspective. If, as you say, Korea is an economically 'better ride' than the UK then fair play. In that case you are an economic migrant. I checked the no answer because life is not always about money.

First and foremost I came here to travel. Money was a pull but not the main reason for being here. Money is the reason I am staying for 6 months more, but not the reason I came.

It's a good question that you pose and is relevant considering that Korea is now a receiving nation in terms of workers. Indeed, Asia is becoming the place to be, economically.


  • Spongeblob
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Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2011, 06:51:03 am »
I've worked better paying jobs but like teaching and travel.  It's a good question.  I suppose I'm more of an economic miscreant.  :)


  • tfuller
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Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2011, 07:57:56 am »
It isn't difficult to get a socially (not so much economically) prestigious(ish) job in NZ, but remuneration and benefits are rubbish, unless you are in a highly skilled profession or in the top 10% in your profession. It makes way more sense to move to Aus and take a lower skilled but higher paid job.

I'm from Aus, but i decided to come here simply because cost of living pressures back home are immense... and they aren't going to get better any time soon. I can save 4x more than those on decent wages back home, in particular those of my friends living in big cities paying more rent per month  than my school pays in 3 months. I came for the experience, but after two years my perspective changed, and i would now consider myself an economic migrant.


Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2011, 01:24:34 pm »
It isn't difficult to get a socially (not so much economically) prestigious(ish) job in NZ, but remuneration and benefits are rubbish, unless you are in a highly skilled profession or in the top 10% in your profession. It makes way more sense to move to Aus and take a lower skilled but higher paid job. I came to Korea because I am naturally contrarian.

Is it really possible to be anything other than an economic migrant? At least in the medium to long term? (Almost) no one is going to move to a less economically advantageous position. Maybe to do charity work, but that isn't really possible (for most) after your savings run out.

The question is kind of confusing. Is there some kind of implicit moral implication in moving from where you are born, to work? I don't think there is. It's no different than moving between states or cities within your own country. As I said, the question is confusing.




The term Economic migrant I thought was clear. I mean someone who has to be in korea for financial reasons because they can't have the same lifestyle back home. Think Mexicans moving to the US to escape poverty. When I came to Korea some years ago it was mainly social misfits and traveller types after a new experience for a year or two. Now I'm seeing fresh graduates often with MA's who couldnt get work back home. Only a few years back a MA graduate would be looking to work in a good company with a clear graduate scheme.

You need to be honest with yourself to answer this question. I guess if you are not an economic migrant then I will assume you can move back to your home countries any time you want and within a relatively short time have a better paid job with better conditions possibly in the area you have qualifications.




Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2011, 04:01:42 pm »
 Personally, I do not think that as many NETs are economic migrants here as people may thing,  but they are waiting out the rough economic cycles back home.

 


Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2011, 04:36:19 pm »
I would say that I'm a migrant worker, but my primary reasons for coming here were not economical.  With some effort I could probably find a job at home that pays roughly the same, but it would leave me with less money in my pocket than in Korea because of taxes, rent, transport etc.  However, those considerations didn't drive me to come here, because - as has been noted - jobs are about more than money.  I don't have any financial obligations and in the long term it would probably have made more sense for me to get a job in my field with less money than to come here.  But I came here because I was bitten by the travel bug and always wanted to try teaching in Asia.  I don't feel like I have more social or economic prestige here than I would have at home.


Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2011, 09:37:06 pm »
Personally, I do not think that as many NETs are economic migrants here as people may thing,  but they are waiting out the rough economic cycles back home.

 

Whats the difference?  Who is to say its a cycle and not a new normal. Those American jobs are done in Asia now, there not coming back any time soon.


Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2011, 08:14:25 am »
Michaela definately summarized my reasons for comming to Korea. I am debt free, and I have a few employment options at home if I truely wanted them. Teaching as a profession interests me, and rather then spending time in teachers college only to discover I absolutely hate being around kids... I figure this is a more interesting and profitable way to see how I interact with students. The prospect of travelling is definately a sweet bonus.  I don't think its primarily about economics with me, its about doing something worthwhile with the time I have. At least thats what I like to believe.


Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2011, 05:18:26 pm »
Quote
When I came to Korea some years ago it was mainly social misfits and traveller types after a new experience for a year or two. Now I'm seeing fresh graduates often with MA's who couldnt get work back home. Only a few years back a MA graduate would be looking to work in a good company with a clear graduate scheme.


Anyway I originally came here for the adventure, a girl (an American I'd met at uni whom came out here a year before me and was trying to pick things back up) and travel.  The fact that I could send back 1mil won a month certainly didn't hinder my choice and I think it is unlikely I would have made the leap if it wasn't for the 'full package' and the money was certainly part of that.  But the savings potential could've been less and as long as it was comparative to a grad job back home, I probably still would've given it a shot tbh.  If i thought I could only have saved 600k a month I still woulda come.  But might not have done for less as being broke S.U.C.K.S

But yeah the reason I've stayed so long (6 YRS PLUS) and will stay for 6 - 12 months more is now purely financial.  The newness has worn off, I've lost the travel bug, good friends have come and gone (literally only 4 left and we don't see each other as often as used to) the job blows if I'm honest, the daily abuse, never being in the right no matter what you do etc...  But no way I'm going back without at least 18mil in the bank (yes I've spent almost every won I've earned in the past 6 yrs bar about 5mil) which is enough to live for a year back home without a full time job and will give me the flexibility to start the next chapter.

The main reason for leaving is this doesn't and never will feel like anything remotely resembling a home.  I'm a whitey and have only really felt at home in the UK, US and NW Europe.

All that said, it's still not that bad as a temp option for few yrs once you have a bearable teaching 'gig' - no way I'm insulting the word job by employing it here - an apt to yourself, are putting away a mil or more a month, have a good gym / friends / tv / movie / hobby routine and have built up your own little world.  Life could be worse...  A good prequel to somethiong else I guess and something I'll still always look back on as a vallid part of my life.

So sorry for the ramble, but I really don't think it's as black and white for many esl'ers as the op would like to think...

Then again I can only speak from UK perspective, not many of us here and we're not the type in general to go all the way to Asia just for money in my honest opinion...  Up until very recently has never been that hard to get a decent paying grad gig back there (sales, banking, media sales, recruiting etc.)  Heard the job market is tougher now though, but I bet you still wont get many brits coming here with the money being the main reason...
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 01:35:16 am by daveyc18 »


Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2011, 05:53:34 pm »
Who is to say that it is not a cycle?  The economies of countries go up and down regularly.  I would hate to think that that is the new normal on account of  my family members plus all Americans.   I daresay the new normal is the political gridlock and football in Washington DC, but what else is new?


Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2011, 11:19:15 pm »
Who is to say that it is not a cycle?  The economies of countries go up and down regularly.  I would hate to think that that is the new normal on account of  my family members plus all Americans.   I daresay the new normal is the political gridlock and football in Washington DC, but what else is new?


I will be honest and say I have held back in my understanding of the economy in the West. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt this is not an economic cycle. But the start of a decade long Depression the world has never seen before. You can save this line and quote it back to me in about two years time, thats how confident I am of it.


  • Davey
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Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2011, 01:34:22 am »
Stick to the topic, please. Any more bickering and this thread will be locked.
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Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2011, 06:26:15 am »
I would go back to the UK in a heartbeat, but the thought of going back aged 45 with little savings is just too much to contemplate. The chance of getting a job is slim at best, over qualified and too experienced for the cr*p jobs and not qualified or experienced enough for the good jobs, not to mention my age. So stuck in limbo. Married to a Korean so another country and travelling is out of the question. So yes I could be described as an (a reluctant) economic migrant!!!!


Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2011, 08:55:57 am »
I'm not bickering.  All I'm saying is that everything works in cycles.


  • Davey
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Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2011, 11:39:50 am »
I'm not bickering.  All I'm saying is that everything works in cycles.

It wasn't you. I removed the posts where the other two were arguing.
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Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2011, 12:16:57 pm »
Thanks for the feedback, Daveyc18. 


  • unclefrank
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Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2011, 01:05:34 pm »
Yea pretty much, couldn't find a job back home.


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Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2011, 02:57:24 pm »
Yep. My skills aren't as in demand back home as they used to be. So here's as good a place as any to be for a few years while I save and take some classes.


Re: If your honest with yourself...Are you an economic migrant?
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2011, 03:58:42 pm »
I was on the way out the door. Had been accepted to grad school at a "name" school, and thought it would be a piece of cake to at least get a part-time job in the field in which I am studying. But about 50-60 applications later, the reality sank in that nearly every branch of the public sector is tightening its belt and cutting back on hiring as much as possible. Nearly every job now states "bachelor's degree required, masters degree preferred", which means if you don't have a masters degree in your hand, your application is more than likely going right into the shredder. I applied for a clerical position (using Office, answering phones, filing) that required an associates degree, and received an email back that they had received over 400 applicants for the position and selected someone better qualified.....

Now add on top of the economic ugliness the insane right wing Republicans, pleding allegiance to government of the corporations and by the corporations, are holding the citizens of the United States hostage and actually driving the spear of recession deaper into our hemoraging naton. 
With certifiable loonies like Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry having legitimate chances at becoming our next President, and the ineffectual and aloof current Commander-in-Chief tucking his tail between his legs and running scared at every crisis, I am confident the tailspin will only continue.

So all of a sudden getting paid well, with generous holidays, for doing something I love anyway (teaching and working with children) doesn't seem such a bad thing. In fact, I've reevaluated exactly what my motives were for getting the masters, the eventual career trajectory in which I would undoubtedly follow, and decided that its not something that will ultimately make me happy. So I've signed up for the GRE in Seoul, and will set my sights a little higher academically.

So yes I am an economic migrant, but I'd also label myself a political refugee as well. And someone who enjoys visiting places that friend's state-side could only dream of. And someone who's tired of conforming to the ever stringent standards of corporate America. And someone who believes you should actually derive enjoyment from your work. And......