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Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« on: September 06, 2010, 12:03:59 pm »
First of all, sorry if I post this at the wrong forum. 

My Korean co-teacher just informed me some native teachers complained that they should have got the same pay as the Korean teachers for teaching 8-hour day summer camp.  After all, native teachers did most of the work compared to the Korean counterparts.  You all know that Korean teachers got all 8 hours as OT on top of their monthly salary.  Whereas native teachers only got 4 hours because of our 22hrs/week work. So apparently that complaint got the the Ministry of Education.  Now Korean government has decided, to be fair, they're going to ask all Korean teachers to pay back the extra OT they received. 

My co-teacher commented that if that's the case, who's (Korean teachers) going to teach summer camp?  Now she knows how we feel?

Your thoughts? 


PS: I should emphasize this is a 8-hour sleep-over camp arranged by your school.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 12:08:11 pm by Girlygirl »


  • torstrom
  • Veteran

    • 84

    • May 19, 2010, 07:46:52 am
    • Hwaseong
Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 12:17:49 pm »
We are on a different contract then they are.  If they weren't at the summer camp they could be at home.  Retroactively having them pay it back is extremely unfair in my opinion.  If native teachers were teaching for 40 hours then a case could be made they should get the overtime pay for the 18 hours beyond the 22 hours of "teaching time." I kind of see this as a you scratch my back I scratch yours thing. If you accomodate your school to a certain degree with out letting them walk all over you, they will likely accomodate you. 


  • AC_in_Korea
  • Super Waygook

    • 263

    • July 30, 2010, 11:25:33 am
    • Miryang, South Korea
Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 01:41:28 pm »
I believe that the key is 'we are on different contracts'.  Korean teachers work on Saturdays - we do not.  If the Korean teachers went to the Ministry and complained, would we have to start working on Saturdays?  I don't think it was fair of the native speaking teachers to complain. I believe our pay is good for what we do, and the bottom line is that we signed our contracts with the terms stipulated. We cannot start picking and choosing things to change, just to benefit ourselves.
If the terms of our contracts were not being met (ie - not getting paid for time over 22 classes), then there is a need to complain.  But complaining because someone else's contract looks better than ours is not fair - unless we are prepared to take the negatives as well (ie-working on saturdays).
Just my two cents. :)
Be the change you want to see in the world.


  • jille86
  • Adventurer

    • 45

    • April 15, 2010, 12:50:40 pm
    • Korea
Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 02:16:47 pm »
That's completely unfair to the Korean teachers! Yes, we may do more work than them in the actual class (and that's not even always true depending on the teacher), but for sure we know what's in our contract and what's expected of us. We get good money for summer camps still so there's nothing to complain about. Not only that, but at our summer camp, I know the Korean teachers were up earlier than us and up later than us putting the kids to bed and preparing things for our special performances (plus they have to deal with parents calling them). So I think it's completely fair.
Is there any way to prevent this from happening to them?


Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 02:58:14 pm »
Hello everyone, I'm writing in regards of everyone comments that were made, about the Korean teacher being paid more than the Native teacher. In my thoughts, I agree that we as Native teachers should be paid according to the Korean teachers. Why? Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I teach at an elementary school and I work very hard to teach students everyday. I come to school early (Before 8:30) and I leave late (Around 6:30) everyday, and I would like to emphasis this because it is very true. I prepare for all my students by myself without the help of my teacher's. I taught 3 camps straight. I only had a chance to take 3 days out of 8 days for my summer vacation, because I had no other choice, but to teach students. Because that's my job, I didn't complain. Now, I had to prepare all materials from stretch,(I made all my materials) my teacher's didn't offer any help to me, and because my schools budget was very low, I had to make students books BY MYSELF, using a machine that makes books. So I stayed after school even late, just to make sure my job was completed, not only right, but correctly. I made all copies also, which took forever to do. All of my games were hand made( Meaning I didn't use anyone else material). While teaching students, you know what my co-teacher did, sat at the computer desk shopping on-line or they just didn't come to my class, and I taught LOW LEVEL Students for 2 of my camps, which are my main schools. And to top it off they left EARLY, everyday and when I asked if I can leave, they would say, (as you know in your contract you are required to stay at school until 4:30. Now to conclude all of this I can go on and on for like days, but I wont. Do I think you all should be paid the same pay as your Korean co-teachers, (well that's your opinion) but for me I ABSOLUTLEY AGREE THAT I SHOULD BE PAID the same as my Korean co-teachers. I WORKED my ass off for my students the whole month of SUMMER CAMP and I can honestly say that I didn't slack, not even once. Oh yeah and I forgot to add that I had to receive surgery on my knees, which were part of my ONLY 3 day summer vacation, I wasn't suppose to return back to school until after a week, but I couldn't risk my job, for my personal health, so I considered students first. Although I wasn't suppose to walk up the stairs or stand for long periods of time, I never sat down not once( well that's really because it really hurt me to stand back up once I sat down). So I hope they do make the Korean teachers pay back the extra money they received, because majority of them did not do anything and you all know that....ESPECIALLY mines....Well I hope this comment was useful, but yet considered to most of you....Once again it was a pleasure reading you all post, but I strongly agree that we as NATIVE teachers should have been the ones receiving the extra pay......


  • kerrym
  • Veteran

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    • March 18, 2010, 09:52:47 pm
    • Ulsan, South Korea
Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2010, 03:34:46 pm »
It is extraordinarily unfair to ask the Korean teachers to return their money for summer camp! I think the poster must be talking about the 3 week "sleepover" camp and not individual school camps. They are not required to be at camps, but choose to, because they get paid extra. If they didn't do the camps, they could take time off, being paid their regular salary. Our contracts, require camps and we are paid overtime for all hours over 22 each week. I do think we should be paid for the hours we are required to stay on the campus, but that should be at the rate stipulated in the contracts (6,000 not 20,000 per hour).

Regarding the work loads.....the Korean teachers do tons of unseen work: coordinating bus schedules, checking dorms, texting EVERY student's parents throughout the entire camp, preparing materials, cleaning classrooms, preparing for the "song/drama" festivals, etc., In addition, depending on the experience/qualifications of the native teachers, they may do MORE actual teaching than the native teachers. Plus, they handle most of the discipline problems, the injuries, the homesickness, etc., that arises throughout the three weeks.

Finally, the Korean teachers are trained, degreed, and certified TEACHERS! Many of the native teachers have never been in a classroom and have no understanding of how difficult, competitive and costly it is to become a "real" teacher in Korea.

Okay, really, finally, four of the Korean teachers from my school worked at my English camp. They all began each day before I did, finished after I did, and two of them had native teachers, who when asked what they planned to do each day, routinely answered, "I don't know, I'm just gonna wing it." Two of the Koreans have babies on the way, one is getting married in November and the other has a mother who is getting an operation in October. They worked at camp to make extra money. To take it away from them, because some ill-informed, self-righteous native teacher complained, is insulting and sad, and says much more about the qualifications and professionalism of the native teacher than it does about the fairness of the situation.

Please forgive my ranting, but *****......
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 10:35:04 am by Dayle »


Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2010, 10:04:03 am »
No, I was talking about a 6-night sleep-over camp.  And no, I did not get extra pay for sleeping over.  I don't know about your camps, in my camp, we also had night-time Korean teachers who helped students with all the miscellaneous stuff.  Whereas the Korean English teachers acted as our assistants in the class. It was us leading all the activities. 

Thanks for all the comments. I see what you're saying.  If I were a teacher back home (Canada), and I teach summer school, of course I would get that extra pay on top of my regular pay.  And if a foreign teacher demands the same benefits and privileges as me knowing he/she's on a different contract with different work conditions/pay, of course I would be upset too.  To make matter worse, I wouldn't appreciate a foreign teacher complaining to reduce my pay. 

I don't know if there's anything we can do.  Let me know if you hear the same news in your area.

To jayewileysmith: Please take my friendly advice.  You need to work smarter not harder.  With all the resources on the internet, even on this site, why don't you use them?  You're wasting a lot of your time preparing things from scratch. 
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 10:09:46 am by Girlygirl »


Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2010, 11:54:39 am »

jayewileysmith wrote:

Quote
I come to school early (Before 8:30) and I leave late (Around 6:30) everyday, and I would like to emphasis this because it is very true.
next
Quote
And to top it off they left EARLY, everyday and when I asked if I can leave, they would say, (as you know in your contract you are required to stay at school until 4:30.


interesting

At times life is unfair especially for immigrant labor.


  • Dyl
  • Fanatical Supporter!

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    • November 04, 2008, 11:54:50 am
Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2010, 12:40:58 pm »
A friendly reminder: This is a public forum - posts containing swear words or blasphemy are likely to be moderated.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 12:43:05 pm by Dayle »
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  • kerrym
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    • March 18, 2010, 09:52:47 pm
    • Ulsan, South Korea
Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2010, 12:49:34 pm »
Dayle,
Sorry.
Kerry


  • candice3
  • Waygookin

    • 17

    • July 06, 2010, 02:36:06 pm
    • South Korea
Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2010, 01:32:12 pm »
I think all payment of camps depends on the area you're in. In my case, I actually feel bad for the KT's because they get paid a lot less than us and I personally feel that they had a lot more responsiblilty for the kids. Yes, they may not have had to prepare and work as hard as NT's but we are all there for the same amount of hours.
Clearly everyones contracts are different and we should just go according to that ~ no need to complain, that's just being bratty!


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

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    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu Province, Taiwan
    more
Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2010, 10:20:46 am »
I work for SMOE and we don't get any extra pay for any camps at all. They told us it is part of our duties, so no extra pay for us at all.
Everything is not as it seems.

There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • BigHaDaddy
  • Explorer

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    • October 13, 2010, 08:58:07 am
    • Gumi, South Korea
Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 02:40:09 pm »
Are some of you guys serious?

Do you know how much more Korean teachers put in than us?  They work every other Saturday and they have to do tons of administrative work.  On top of that, they get paid similarly to us and don't get free housing, so we actually get paid more.

I also teach alone and create my own materials from "scratch," but even then, I know how much more KT's have to do. 

Be grateful for what you have, and don't always look at others for what they have and you don't.  Because the fact of the matter is that you won't be looking at what you have and they don't, only the other way around.


  • Janitor
  • Moderator - LVL 2

    • 956

    • June 14, 2010, 02:01:32 pm
    • Ulsan
Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2010, 03:09:45 pm »
First, let me say that having to pay back money that you worked for blows! They put in the time and they deserve the money that they get. Can you imagine the ddong-storm that would start if the Korean teachers complained and one of us had to pay back money for a camp. I have been in a situation similar to what the Korean teachers are in (having to pay back money to the MOE) and it really sucks. Shame on the teachers for complaining.

That being said I am not one of the people that thinks we are spoiled and that our housing, status or situation should be looked upon in regards to how much money we earn a month. Point being we earn X-amount of money and they earn Y-amount. We are not in our home country and they are. They have families here and we don't. We can't compare the two and come up with a fair result. We just have to accept it.

As for the camps, I work  grueling sleep-over camps. Classes start at 9 and we finish at 8:30. The foreign teachers make the lesson plans, materials, and lead all of the classes plus doing the exercise and evening activities. The Korean teachers assist and help with the students. They also have an option to come to the  evening class but they don't get paid for it. The foreign teachers have to teach the 2 hour evening classes and we do get paid for it.

Now, I know that the Korean teachers get paid about the same. I would like to get paid more, but sadly my contract says that I can't. There is not much we can do about it. Just do your work and do a good job. The best thing to do is voice your concerns to the camp supervisor. I am on my third camp and apart from a few strange ideas (sleeping in the same room as the students  :o), the camps are getting better (more break time, better locations, better treatment).

What our camp supervisor said and I fully feel that this is the root of the issue here is this "we cannot do anything about the pay, that is the MOE twisting your contract. All we can do is hope that you have a good time at the camp and teach well" Than being said, I normally have a good time. Since the first sleep-over camp the supervisors changed a lot to help all the teachers like weekends at home, pizza and beer parties and a lot more break time. For a 3 week sleep over camp these are great benefits.

For the others talking about the personal lives of the Korean teachers, please understand that everybody has those issues. We are away from home, have food allergies, dreadlocks, pets, etc. However, we have a job to do and so do our Korean co-teachers. There is also a balance, whatever we don't want to do, they HAVE to do. So keep that in mind when we start complaining about extra work and whatnot. Also realize that the Korean teachers are human beings and that they don't want to be there and do all the work either.

 



Re: Korean teachers' summer camp pay
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2010, 10:32:56 am »
We get good money for summer camps still so there's nothing to complain about.

I work for SMOE and we don't get any extra pay for any camps at all. They told us it is part of our duties, so no extra pay for us at all.

Same here...nada!

Lucky for some eh




Regarding the work loads.....the Korean teachers do tons of unseen work: coordinating bus schedules, checking dorms, texting EVERY student's parents throughout the entire camp, preparing materials, cleaning classrooms, preparing for the "song/drama" festivals, etc.


I work for SMOE and most of us don`t have camps in far flung locations that I guess some GEPIK teachers have.....I can say for sure that SMOE Korean co-teachers  have to do very little of some of the above mentioned like bus schedules etc .....other than cleaning of the classroom. At our camps, the Korean teachers have to do a club activity (for which the kids make a performance of) at the end of the 3 weeks but it`s a case of preparing 3 lesson plans TOPS and trust me....not a lot of thought goes into that (for SMOE anyway!). 2 camps ago, my  co-teacher didn`t even prepare anything....scrambled some youtube music video and made something up on the spot and that became the topic for the remainder of the time.

In the last summer camp, the club activity was "cooking"......that involved making sandwiches everyday for 3 weeks as classes rotated. Again lots of thought put into that one!




  On top of that, they get paid similarly to us and don't get free housing, so we actually get paid more.


did you factor in all the chusok/christmas bonuses etc?




« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 10:35:52 am by murakano121 »