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  • D.L.Orean
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1700

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2023, 01:39:15 pm »
I understand. But I'd ask you to really think about this one and what it means in terms of respecting your students and who they are as human beings. I think one of the most basic forms of human respect is to learn someone's name and call them by it and accept that as their name. Respect is a two-way street and if you aren't going to respect them and where they're coming from, it's really hard to ask the same towards you in return.

How would you want to be treated if the situation were reversed? I do agree to some extent of "You need to get with the program" at the same time if my teacher showed complete contempt towards my culture and identity, I wouldn't have much respect for them and who knows? Maybe in fact, actively start to despise them and what they represented, especially if I were a youth. And perhaps if I was fine with it at the time, when older I might look back at it with a different eye and much more negatively.

Nobody here is actively pushing English names on their students.

It seems like you are trying to lean into an argument about how people back home treat those with foreign sounding names. And for that I'd definitely agree with you. People in America should feel no pressure to change their names to make people more comfortable or in fear of discrimination. And it is basic respect to do your best to pronounce someone's name correctly.

I don't think English names in hagwons are quite comparable to what you want to make this about. I do not give students English names. I would encourage others to also avoid. For a lot of the reasons you mention. But I don't think anyone here is 'showing complete contempt towards their students' culture or identities.' And for those who do fit that description, my experience has been, the contempt runs a lot deeper than just using English names. If students pick up on it, the English names would be merely a sprinkle on that sundae.


  • Jethro Bodine
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1161

    • November 02, 2022, 12:10:43 pm
    • ce-ment pond
Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2023, 01:42:00 pm »
I understand. But I'd ask you to really think about this one and what it means in terms of respecting your students and who they are as human beings. I think one of the most basic forms of human respect is to learn someone's name and call them by it and accept that as their name. Respect is a two-way street and if you aren't going to respect them and where they're coming from, it's really hard to ask the same towards you in return.

How would you want to be treated if the situation were reversed? I do agree to some extent of "You need to get with the program" at the same time if my teacher showed complete contempt towards my culture and identity, I wouldn't have much respect for them and who knows? Maybe in fact, actively start to despise them and what they represented, especially if I were a youth. And perhaps if I was fine with it at the time, when older I might look back at it with a different eye and much more negatively.

Yeah, look, I'm not going to get into it with you. I don't make students take an English name...their choice and their parents' choice, for the most part. However, I do prefer it though because yes, it makes my life easier, and it makes the class dynamics way better. No debating this.

I agree with you in part; I would not be keen using another name just because, but I would, if say my Korean teacher asked me to...no biggie.

I tell you what, this is my last year here. We are moving to rural Kangwon-do next year, so I'll try to use everyone's real name when I start a new place of study...only for you Marti! That should make you feel better.  :smiley:
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 01:43:57 pm by Jethro Bodine »


  • Kayos
  • The Legend

    • 2453

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2023, 01:47:48 pm »
In my first year here, they asked me if they could use English names that they assigned to themselves, but it ended up being names like "Harry potter" and they'd just forget by the end of the class what name they used. I also had hundreds of students and couldn't remember a name if I tried. xD
Now, I have like 50 - 60 students between 3 school, and I know about half of them by name.


  • Jethro Bodine
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1161

    • November 02, 2022, 12:10:43 pm
    • ce-ment pond
Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2023, 01:54:07 pm »
In my first year here, they asked me if they could use English names that they assigned to themselves, but it ended up being names like "Harry potter" ...

Yeah, this used to be a big problem. Kids would arrive with names like 'Super Mario', 'Melon'...and back in the day football names like 'Ronaldinho'. Far out! If it was stupid, I'd have a talk with parents. I even had a woman who called herself 'Poby'  :huh:


Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2023, 01:55:17 pm »
Only Marti could turn this into a 10 page rant about how unethical we Westerners are when we use the English names that their PARENTS gave them.

I think there are many more pressing problems in this world than to get our knickers in a knot over this issue. I have many Chinese and Taiwanese friend and NONE of them have been traumatised by having an English name, THEY CHOOSE TO DO IT.  Must I now go and tell them how terrible they are and how they are betraying their culture by using an English name? Give me a break.

This is a NON-ISSUE Marty, stop making it to be something that it is not. People can choose whatever frikken name they like and who are you to dictate to East Asians as to what they can or cannot name themselves or their kids.  Get over it.
Dude, has it ever occurred to you that you might not have your ear as close to the ground on this as you think you do?

The fact that you haven't even heard of this and are treating it as some sort of "out-there" complaint is really an indication of your own-blindness and just how honest and open your Chinese and Taiwanese friends are with you about certain issues. If your reaction here is any indication, I think I can see why they don't bring up opinions you might disagree with. Hopefully though, it's more a case of just them liking you and thinking you're a good person and a nice guy and rather than get involved in some debate over sensitive issues about this, just be friendly and focus on things like learning English or enjoying a drink or a game of tennis together.

But seriously, dude, I'm telling you this is a thing. It's not the biggest thing, but it's something a fair number of people have issue with. Just because YOU aren't aware of it, doesn't mean it isn't an issue.


Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2023, 02:12:32 pm »
Nobody here is actively pushing English names on their students.

It seems like you are trying to lean into an argument about how people back home treat those with foreign sounding names. And for that I'd definitely agree with you. People in America should feel no pressure to change their names to make people more comfortable or in fear of discrimination. And it is basic respect to do your best to pronounce someone's name correctly.

I don't think English names in hagwons are quite comparable to what you want to make this about. I do not give students English names. I would encourage others to also avoid. For a lot of the reasons you mention. But I don't think anyone here is 'showing complete contempt towards their students' culture or identities.' And for those who do fit that description, my experience has been, the contempt runs a lot deeper than just using English names. If students pick up on it, the English names would be merely a sprinkle on that sundae.
I agree that there's definitely nuance to this. Not all cases of English names in the classroom are neo-colonialism or some such. However, at the same time I do think SOME of it is a carryover from those times. This "English name" thing didn't start in 2023 or anything. This has been going on since like the 1900s and there was a FAR FAR different mentality then. It basically continued in some degree until the end of colonialism. And then I'd say we didn't really start to grasp that it wasn't a good thing to do until what, sometime in the 2000s and this is after some here started teaching and well into the English craze.

But there are some posts that maybe make you raise an eyebrow-

Quote
In the past younger students were unable to act naturally. Having a neutral name kills this problem...., and I can't be bothered with this Heung shit and deference to someone older while studying and speaking

I like Jethro and this is probably more an indication of his being irritated at me than his attitude towards his students, but still...oof man.

You also mentioned that you watch some NET make students take an English name. I don't think this is widespread these days, but back in the day, you'd hear more about it. I'd say sometime after 2010 it really became a thing where people would start to look at you as doing something wrong if you gave the students in your class English names (unsolicited).

Or you have Saffer thinking this is a non-issue.  Dude would be that guy in the 'Gandhi' movie going "India is British. We're hardly an alien power!" Well-intentioned but just...blind. 


  • 745sticky
  • The Legend

    • 2757

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2023, 02:14:05 pm »
Colonial mindset indoctrinated at a young age.

possibly the most delusional statement i've seen from you yet


Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2023, 02:20:48 pm »
I tell you what, this is my last year here. We are moving to rural Kangwon-do next year, so I'll try to use everyone's real name when I start a new place of study...only for you Marti! That should make you feel better.  :smiley:
I'm touched. Though I have to say, after hearing someone's idea to name their students Dorothy, Sophia, Rose, Blanche, I may do a 180 on this...

I mean, NGL, it would be kind of fun to name my students Sisko, Kira, Odo, Quark, Worf, O'Brien, Nog, Garak, Bashir, Dax, and of course, Gul Dukat. 

In all seriousness, not only will it make your students feel better (unless of course they want to be called Thanos or Poopmonster or something) AND also make you feel better. Calling your friend Giuseppe instead of George does that. Same with your students.


Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2023, 02:24:52 pm »
Y'all arguing with DM as if it means something. xD

He doesn't actually ****** care, you guys. He's been on a tear because his ego got hurt, most of us aren't pulling our punches with him anymore. He's tried to hide this with a little charm here and there, but he is who he is.

Arguing with him isn't gonna go anywhere. He isn't trying to meet anyone eye-to-eye, he's just here to berate people into exhaustion. So unless it's actually fun for you to piss into the wind, just ignore his narcissistic ass, lol.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 02:32:48 pm by Chinguetti »


Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2023, 02:33:37 pm »
possibly the most delusional statement i've seen from you yet
Not if you look at the history of immigrants/colonial subjects and names and the way people were separated and treated based on such, which continues up to this day.

Like if you can't see why there shouldn't at least be an examination as to why a bunch of kids on the other side of the ocean feel they need to adopt a different name in order to make foreigners/Americans happy, and they feel proud because they've done so (or so the person claims), then I don't know what to say. That shouldn't be a thing. At all.

That being said, if they're proud to say their English name in more of a creative/artistic/make-believe sense, then fine. I mean, I had probably had a dozen different imaginary identities as a kid for all the different crap we did, whether it was WWII mock fights or Ninja Turtles or G.I. Joe or Star Trek or "I'm Joe Dumars" or "I'm Lou Whitaker"  or Top Gun names or whatever. If it's just an extension of that, then by all means, have fun.

Like if a kid takes the English translation of their Chinese name, that's pretty reasonable. Sort of like how in my Russian class we all made Russian versions of our names based on Russian naming conventions using our parent's names.

For a crude example-
"Kumar, what kind of name is that?"
"My name is Harold"
"You should be proud of that name, son."

It's 2023 people. Not 1983.


Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2023, 02:33:56 pm »
Y'all arguing with DM as if it means something. xD

He doesn't actually ****** care, you guys. He's been on a tear because his ego got hurt, most of us aren't pulling our punches with him anymore. He's tried to hide this with a little charm here and there, but he is who he is.

Arguing with him isn't gonna go anywhere. He isn't trying to meet anyone eye-to-eye, he's just here to berate people into exhaustion. So unless it's actually fun for you to piss into the wind, just ignore his narcissistic ass, lol.
I thought you had me on ignore?


  • Augustiner
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1584

    • December 06, 2021, 01:18:06 pm
    • Anyang
Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2023, 02:42:48 pm »
Y'all arguing with DM as if it means something. xD

He doesn't actually ****** care, you guys. He's been on a tear because his ego got hurt, most of us aren't pulling our punches with him anymore.

Arguing with him isn't gonna go anywhere. He isn't trying to meet anyone eye-to-eye, he's just here to berate people into exhaustion. So unless it's actually fun for you to piss into the wind, just ignore his narcissistic ass, lol.

It does amaze me how many people Marti can continually bait on here.  He doesn't actually like a good argument.  He just wants to be contrary and accusatory.  As to the why, it would take a lot of sessions with a shrink to unpack. 

I'm with Chinguetti putting him on ignore, unless he posts on a thread I'm interested in, in moderation.  He's got ten posts in this thread alone. I can't count high enough to get a number for the SBS "Ladies" thread.  It reminds me of a few weeks ago as I pulled out a sandwich on Lido Key beach in Florida.  I was quickly surrounded by seagulls.  But, after a short time with no food coming their way, they left.  Now, Marty is no dumb seagull so he will take longer to leave.  But he's never going to stop with the inane over posting until you guys stop throwing him crumbs.  He needs your reactions.  If you add him on ignore he'll either leave or grow up.  If we're really lucky and no one is getting roped in by him, we may get one of those hilarious farewell letters like he sent to COAjumma to post last time.  That was a gem.  And when he was able to sneak back on he was relatively adult like for two weeks before the sh*t show came back. 


  • Renma
  • Expert Waygook

    • 713

    • September 01, 2014, 06:09:42 am
    • Banned
Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2023, 02:47:00 pm »
Marty goes on random tangent in a thread about x topic > Everyone acts angry and upset at him > Make new thread on that same tangent to bait Marty > Marty arrives > Commence dogpile > Act angry and upset when he does exactly what he was goaded into doing > After 12 pages said topic is exhausted > repeat


Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2023, 02:49:50 pm »
Seriously. He's like that crazy guy standing on the street corner rambling about how everyone is going to hell except for the chosen few, and only he can tell you why.

I get wanting to poke some fun at him for some of his especially asinine posts, but c'mon, the amount of effort I see trying to interact with someone so obviously irrational, it makes me tired haha.


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 3950

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2023, 02:59:00 pm »
Marty goes on random tangent in a thread about x topic > Everyone acts angry and upset at him > Make new thread on that same tangent to bait Marty > Marty arrives > Commence dogpile > Act angry and upset when he does exactly what he was goaded into doing > After 12 pages said topic is exhausted > repeat

Yet, you love to mention this on every Marty thread.


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 3950

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2023, 03:02:01 pm »
It is sad watching someone with mental illness breakdown. But if its on Insta or TikTok wed probably take a glance.


Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2023, 03:06:28 pm »
"Marty always argues and never gives in, therefore he is mentally ill" claims group of people who always argue and never give in.


  • Renma
  • Expert Waygook

    • 713

    • September 01, 2014, 06:09:42 am
    • Banned
Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2023, 03:18:38 pm »
Yet, you love to mention this on every Marty thread.

Because its been a tedious cycle for months. At least hangook and van were entertaining to poke with a stick.


  • Adel
  • The Legend

    • 2546

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2023, 03:19:12 pm »


  • Augustiner
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1584

    • December 06, 2021, 01:18:06 pm
    • Anyang
Re: Do you make your students take an "English name"?
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2023, 03:21:51 pm »
Because its been a tedious cycle for months. At least hangook and van were entertaining to poke with a stick.

Yup.  That's where the difference lies for me.  There was no laughing at or with Marti.  Van and Hangook were just so outlandish at times.  Marti is just a whiner.